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dixieclimber
May 5, 2003, 2:15 AM
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I have noticed that many of you are trying to blend experience with grades and strength. the hardest i ever climbed was V5 and i have only trad 5.6 but this doesnt take away that i have 5 years of climbing under my belt. I admit it i am not a very strong climber but i think that once you learn to climb for fun then you are a true climber.
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camhead
May 5, 2003, 2:38 AM
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yup. like alex lowe said, "the best climber is the one having the most fun."
keep this in mind. next time you are climbing, just start yelling about HOW MUCH FUN you are having. this will make you better. you can have TONS of fun, and then tell your partners about how much they suck. and then, you can look across the crag at Tommy Caldwell struggling on his 5.16r/x project, and he duzn't look like he's HAVING FUN and you can be like, "hey Tommy! I'm HAVING FUN! YOU SUCK! I'M BETTER THAN YOU!"
the end.
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jono
May 5, 2003, 3:24 AM
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word
ive been climbing since 95 and i suck :lol: i just love to climb.
i only climb 5.10 TR and sport a 5.8. im just now learning trad. but in those years i learned a lot of do's and dont's. one of those things was WEAR A FRICKIN HELMET. not many people do but a few close calls taught me to wear one most of the time even though i only TR and sport.
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dixieclimber
May 5, 2003, 2:40 PM
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i just saw this issue coming up in every other thread and i decided this should be confronted in a different thread.
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mhr2000
May 5, 2003, 3:44 PM
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My most humbling discovery so far is that becoming an all around good experienced climber should be a long term goal not something you shoot for as quickly as possible. Not that this was ever my plan, but what little I've done so far has made this perfectly clear.
Here is another thought that crosses my mind. As a beginner, 5.9's and 5.10's are going to be a challenge for me. To somebody that climbs 5.10's then 5.11's are going to be a challenge. Going from one grade to the next is pretty much the same level of effort from what I've witnessed. The experienced guys fall and fumble around exactly like me it's just part of advancing no matter how well you climb. My point is, if you aren't having fun at your current level then you will never have fun at any level because it's all the same in the overall scheme of things.
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zacrobinson
May 5, 2003, 4:02 PM
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i disagree with that.
I think that as you get better and can climb somewhat more technical routes, it gets funner. When I first started and I would muscle my way up a easy route, i had some fun, but it was still alot of work. Now when I can climb other routes and when i pull of a certain move using more technique than strength it feels great! When i go back and climb some of the "easier" routes, they are fun becasue i am better and have more room to play on them, try different moves and such, rather than just trying to get up before i get too pumped.
Also, things like leading a climb as opposed to TRing it make it alot more fun for me. It is like climbing a whole different route sometimes.
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camhead
May 5, 2003, 4:11 PM
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damned elitist.
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jcain
May 5, 2003, 4:35 PM
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I also climb for the fun of it. In my first year of climbing (three years ago), it was all indoor and I was very focused on advancing in grade.
After that first year, however, I've been mainly bouldering and top-roped climbing outdoors (I'm too cheap to keep paying the gym owner - now I put that money into climbing equipment instead). Since most of the routes I climb aren't rated, I've been more focused on just enjoying the variety that outdoor climbing offers. I've recently begun to practice placing protection, and that has opened up a new world of climbing to me.
I guess the variety of climbing is what does it for me - not the necessarily grades.
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curt
May 5, 2003, 4:39 PM
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In reply to: I have noticed that many of you are trying to blend experience with grades and strength. the hardest i ever climbed was V5 and i have only trad 5.6 but this doesnt take away that i have 5 years of climbing under my belt. I admit it i am not a very strong climber but i think that once you learn to climb for fun then you are a true climber.
I think this is absolutely true. I have been climbing for nearly 25 years and often climb with others having similar experience. On thing we collectively note is that climbers driven by "numbers" rather than a true love of climbing inevitably drop out after a few years. This does not mean that the "numbers" chasers can not become great climbers--many of them do. But, they seem to burn-out after reaching some level beyond which they are not progressing if the true love for climbing is not there. So, having fun is indeed the key.
Curt
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runbikeclimb
May 5, 2003, 4:58 PM
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I am very new to climbing, i only do outdor TRing right now, and all the routes i do are not numbered ( i have no idea how to even guess at it). But I find a route i want to try and then focus on getting to the top. I just love being on the rock!! I have been out where my partner looks for the perfect spot, takes and hour or more to set the route up, plan it out.... I just want to scream... "anchor it and let's go!!"
I think that chasing numbers is ok for some people, but you need that passion to get out on the rock and climb until your fingers bleed. When someone asks me what I have climbed-- all i can do is point at a route :) and I am ok with that because I climb to satisfy that little voice inside me (in spite of the numbers).
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alpnclmbr1
May 5, 2003, 5:10 PM
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To me the definition of a true climber is someone who has been around for the last ten years or who is going to be around in another ten years. Makes no difference which one it is.
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dixieclimber
May 5, 2003, 5:11 PM
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In reply to: i disagree with that. I think that as you get better and can climb somewhat more technical routes, it gets funner. When I first started and I would muscle my way up a easy route, i had some fun, but it was still alot of work. Now when I can climb other routes and when i pull of a certain move using more technique than strength it feels great! When i go back and climb some of the "easier" routes, they are fun becasue i am better and have more room to play on them, try different moves and such, rather than just trying to get up before i get too pumped. Also, things like leading a climb as opposed to TRing it make it alot more fun for me. It is like climbing a whole different route sometimes. |
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zacrobinson
May 5, 2003, 5:45 PM
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I was just sayin......
once I got better, it wasnt quite as much work to get up the wall and I could figure out more of the route rather than just pull myself up.
Now that I have at least a little technique as opposed to the none that I used to have, everything I climb is alot more fun.
catch my drift?
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mhr2000
May 5, 2003, 6:20 PM
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In reply to: once I got better, it wasnt quite as much work to get up the wall and I could figure out more of the route rather than just pull myself up.
I believe you are doing exactly what this thread is about, confusing or maybe just blurring the lines between improving physically and improving technically. Most any newbie is going to hate getting over that first physical hurdle of just being able to climb reasonably.
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zacrobinson
May 5, 2003, 6:36 PM
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yeah thats probably it
I know that alot of my gains in the first month or so were from just building the physical strength necessary to do any sort of climbing. Then there was a point where I could climb at a certain level for a bit. Then something clicked technique wise and I could do the same climbs but they were much more fun as I wasnt struggling to just get up the wall.
That is the point where I guess you could sa i started climbing and ceased just dragging my 155 lb butt up the wall.
:wink:
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xuehui
Jul 23, 2005, 9:20 PM
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This forum has helped me so much. I have been climbing for two months and was starting to get frustrated with myself. I was able to climb up to a 5.5 in a indoor gym and I was trying to work on a 5.9. I was not making any progress. After I read this forum, I realized that climbing is all about fun.
I climbed again today and I managed to climb my first color route.....and I manage to climb the 5.9 without struggling as much as I did before. I guess a little and a step at a time.
Thanks for this forum!
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pikey971
Aug 17, 2005, 1:05 AM
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i climb just for fun but i have to admit that when i get on a really hard climb i get serous to the point of being really frustrated
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austinclmbr
Aug 17, 2005, 1:56 AM
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I smile on the way to the wall. I smile on the way out. Every time
Rain or shine
climbing hard or not
sometimes it's 8's
sometimes it's project
the frustration,
exhaustion,
jubilation.
Just smile.
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aikibujin
Aug 17, 2005, 2:18 AM
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In reply to: I have noticed that many of you are trying to blend experience with grades and strength. the hardest i ever climbed was V5 and i have only trad 5.6 but this doesnt take away that i have 5 years of climbing under my belt.
Let me play the devil's advocate and ask this question: is how many years a person has been climbing an indicator of their experience? I see many people use time as a gauge for experience, but how accurate is this gauge?
Let's say there are two climbers. Climber A has been climbing for 10 years, but in these 10 years he averages once a month toproping outside or following someone's lead. Climber B has only been climbing for 5 years, but 4 of these 5 years he has been leading multipitch trad near his limit twice a week (every weekend).
So which climber is more experienced?
In my opinion, "experience" is not measured with one simple factor. You have to take many factors into account: years of climbing, diversity, climbing grade, attitude, etc.
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fire_eyes
Aug 17, 2005, 3:42 AM
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In reply to: In my opinion, "experience" is not measured with one simple factor. You have to take many factors into account: years of climbing, diversity, climbing grade, attitude, etc.
Yep. Well put. Some people live to climb, others make a light hobby of it. I put myself somewhere in between...the first week of July I climbed Mt. Whitney via the mountaineers route, got a little off route at the top and roped up for 4 pitches with my partner. Our original plan was to do the east buttress, but a late start and route finding made it a bad choice for us that day. Point is, I had so much fun on that trip even though I didn't do the route I had originally planned to.
I have found that climbing for me is about the adventure, the comraderie, and most importantly, the view from the top. I love to sit on top of whatever I just climbed and look down. It provides a whole new perspective on the world for me. That's why I climb.
Oh, and I think it's unlikely I'll ever lead harder than 5.9 trad. Mainly since I just don't find the same joy in top roping or sport, so I'll never master the moves necessary. The adventure and top-out gone, thus goes the joy for me.
Every climber is different. Tommy, you rock that 5.16 r/x dude. If bouldering is your thing, then rock on. Sport, trad whatever.
To the haters, sprayers and elitists: karma is a bitch...
To the beginners: find your joy. In climbing or whatever else you love. Rock on!
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horseonwheels
Aug 17, 2005, 4:12 AM
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In reply to: I think that as you get better and can climb somewhat more technical routes, it gets funner.
This is somewhat true, but rather than it being "more fun," I think it is more a function of "more rewarding." More technical routes are generally more aesthetic routes, therefore the anticipation, climbing, and feeling of accomlishment is higher. For example: many splitter cracks are no easier than 5.7/5.8, and to climb them requires techniques of jamming. Personally, I find it more fun to climb those types of routes only because the line is so distinct.
Becoming better techinically also opens up more areas and more routes to you, which can also make the experience more fun. We've all been to places where you have to cherrypick climbs here and there to suit your level. It's more fun to have a greater selection of climbs.
That said, there are days where I want to push myself, and days where I want to do 10 pitches of .5/.6. Both types of days have their place, and all help me to enjoy climbing that much more.
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neeg76
Aug 17, 2005, 4:59 AM
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being just an infant to this wonderful sport; progression, experience, knowledge, as with anything enhance an experience. however, a blind love or passion for something so pure doesn't require any level of experience. the motivation, the drive, the love, its there or it just isn't. no 2 ways about it. maybe someday I'll do some insane infinite pitch climb, but until that day comes, I'm happy on my indoor rock climbing gym v3 jugs. :wink:
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rasken
Aug 17, 2005, 6:16 AM
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Well, yes and no.
I agree that the one having the most fun is the winner at the end of the day. I think I have the same angle on it as you, having quite a few years of climbing behind me but not much in terms of grades. I love a cup of coffee beneath a sun-stricken 5.notverymuch before repeating it on TR in preparation for a future lead attempt.
But I know people for whom progression is what is fun. I need the scenery, the friends, and the coffee, they need to advance a grade per season. It's still fun for them. The difference is what triggers "fun". I'm bummed if my friends leave town and I don't get to climb for a while, they're bummed if they plateau in technique for a while.
So have fun, but don't think that your fun is everyone else's.
Damn, I'm getting too philosophical for this time of day (8 am here in Sweden). I better read some Ask the NOOB... errr... do some work.
/rasken
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ninja_climber
Aug 17, 2005, 6:41 AM
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I just started climbing in March and I personally have the most fun climbing something I can't do. Like trying out boulder problems that I can almost do , but not yet . I love the thrill that you get when your so close and you know you can do it , but you keep falling. The adrenilne starts pumping and ou just go all out and just put everything into it to the point where averything is just focused on the next hold. ...wow...I just got the chills.... dammit now I have the urge to go and boulder... Ohh well the gym's only 5 mins from the house. Bye bye now!
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curt
Aug 17, 2005, 6:52 AM
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In reply to: In reply to: I dont think any thing ever gets "funner." :wink: if you don't enjoy easy stuff then you wont enjoy any thing harder than that. the only way its more fun is by opening up you options to new routes. This is a false statement
Why would you say that? When I did my first 5.3 routes in the Gunks 25+ years ago, I had a ball.
Curt
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bvb
Aug 17, 2005, 7:12 AM
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In reply to: was V5 and i have only trad 5.6 but this doesnt take away that i have 5 years of climbing under my belt.
so you bolder 5.12b/c, but you only lead 5.6? ummmm....kay.
shut the fuck up, n00b. peeple like u give me a fucking headache.
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xuehui
Aug 17, 2005, 10:57 PM
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Ahhh I am so envious of you!! I have to drive over an hour to get to a indoor climbing gym! ......... But just last week my husband and I found a outdoor place to climb and I guess we will be going there a lot more now since it's free haaa!
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dingus
Aug 17, 2005, 11:21 PM
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Have to agree with the point Curt made 2 years ago.
But too, a lot of experience comes from that hunger to progress. When the top roper stop progressing, he starts contemplating taking up the sharp end (some sooner than others). Take free climbing through the stages of easy or rapid gains, then hmmm, what's next, aid? Ice? Big walls? Mountaineering? Bouldering? Marathon climbing binges? New areas? New techniques?
Just because a girl stops progressing say on the 5th class scale, doesn't mean she isn't advancing as a climber, ya know?
Experience? Its days on the rocks, its days running away from climbs. Its 500 freaking thousand miles of early morning and late night drives. Its days in the rain and snow. Its a thousand faceplant tele turns. It's puncturing the back of your calf with your own crampons; twice. Its feeling sick on the 3rd morning of a big wall, when you finally realize it is never ever going to be any different either. Its breaking your ankles and smashing your legs and spraining your wrists. Its scraping your skin off in so many cracks your body seems to heal gobis with Borg like speed. Its 100 or 200 or 300 peak summits, and 500, a thousand, 2 thousand routes.
Number chasers come in all stripes too. I might look down my nose at the number chasing gym climber who can send tiny hold routes 3 number grades beyond me and then turn and bray to my mate, 'just sent my 231st Sierra peak.' OK, actually I have no idea and never tried to tally. Its a bunch though.
The old, 'well I've probably climbed that route a dozen times!' the equivalent of 'there I was' in airplane pilot lingo.
There are only two kinds of experience that matter really, the kind you can demonstrate and the stories you can tell.
I wish more old dogs like curt and the PhillyFlyer and CharlieClimber and alpnclmbr1 and others would tell more stories, short, long, what have you, from their past. The stories you guys could tell!
I suddenly have this need to listen to Jimmy Buffet...
DMT
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tim
Aug 17, 2005, 11:45 PM
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Well, at least in Dan's case, probably the best way to pump him for information is to go climb with him, and (get this) have fun doing it. Dan is a great partner, he really helped me progress in terms of confidence and difficulty. Plus I have always enjoyed climbing with people who have been around the block a few times, and Dan certainly has.
If you're going to keep climbing for more than a few years, it's got to be a function of enjoying the sport, whether or not anyone's watching, whether or not anyone's listening to you spray about your V10 problem or your 5.14 lead, whether or not anyone has ever heard of the crap you're doing. I don't have an opinion on the "harder is funner" crowd, although climbing 5.10 and up (especially on gear) certainly opens a lot of doors. (As does learning how to aid, climb ice, ski, etc.) But it's been 10 years now for me, and I expect to get another 10 (or 20, or 30, or 40) out of the sport. Simply because, between alpine routes, long free routes, and skiing, I've ended up going places I never would have otherwise, with people I never would have met otherwise, and it's been a kick in the pants.
Some of my climbing partners are a grade or two stronger than I am, and most of the people I ski with are bolder skiers than I am, but in spite of this, we do have a good time, and usually get at least mildly terrified, and for me that's enough to keep me hooked on the sport. I don't always push the boat out as far as some of my friends, but I don't stay home, either.
Depending on what you're after, in the mountains and in life, you may or may not arrive at the same place I have. But keep an open mind, anyhow.
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raymondjeffrey
Aug 17, 2005, 11:48 PM
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When I am climbing with first timers I always suggest climbing this 5.4 called 'Cool Breeeze' at the Pancake House in Queen Creek. It is obviously very easy but one of my favorite climbs nonetheless because it is truly fun climbing with really good exposure. Climbers of all levels appreicate this climb because of its sheer level of fun. It was one of my first leads and I had more fun on that one than a lot of other sport routes and most boulders.
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