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rokshoxbkr19
Nov 7, 2003, 1:48 PM
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First of all, I think it is pretty lame that the featured photos are often by the same people and there is no diversity in the photos or photographers chosen to be featured. Second of all, some of them don't even have to do with climbing which makes no sense to me. Furthermore, just because someone might not have access to amazing equipment shouldn't prevent them from being in the spotlight for climbing something they are proud of or taking a picture of it. I feel that more photos of the everday climber should be put in as the featured photo. Maybe the best ones from each #1-10 or something. What do you guys and gals think??? Maybe there can be ones in each number catagory that we can vote on separately, not to be rated but to be featured???
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overlord
Nov 7, 2003, 2:11 PM
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imho THAT would not work, because most lower ranking photos are lower ranking because they suck.
waht could be the answer to the question is dividing the photos into "professional" and "amateur" category.
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madriver
Nov 7, 2003, 2:16 PM
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...actually...over the past fee weeks the "chosen few" have been salted with many pics from the fray. Several threads have started becuase of the inundation of new pics and high ratings. The diversity of the photographers and pics is good. As for "Artistic" photos....it's all good! Keep clickin...
MR 8)
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climbsomething
Nov 7, 2003, 3:26 PM
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Well, you may think they're lame, but it seems that the majority isn't quite with you on that one. Popular vote = featured photo. As long as the majority is still a big fan of climbnow1 or orangeoverhang, that's what you're gonna see.
I am not sure how much room I have to talk yet, but having had a few FP photos lately, I can say: I try my best to add diversity. I photograph a lot of trad in addition to sport. I show people in helmets or not, people on 5.8 or 5.11, 20 year olds and 45 year olds, shirtless muscular guys and people in clothes (and not necessarily Prana). Joshua Tree or my podunk local crags. Many of my models are rc.com users, or just my buddies from school. See, I also wanted to see something other than 5.13+ sport climbing on another continent. Not out of spite, just because I wanted diversity too. Whether my efforts are well-received or not is out of my hands and I can speculate all I want as to why they might get bombed, but I try anyway.
If you don't like the photos of perfectly attired hottie sport climbers, then add your own of "average joes" and/or prop up photos that show "regular" climbers.
But don't give a lame back shot a 10 just for the sake of it. There is at least a glimmer of reason why Jorg has popular photos. Most of them ARE that good. So don't beat em, just join em if you can.
...But ah, nobody is ever really pleased around here. If we gave 10s out with less regard to technical/aesthetic merit, soon as you know it, there'd be threads whining about the crappy FP photos... :roll:
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tenn_dawg
Nov 7, 2003, 5:57 PM
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Dude, it's not expensive equipment that takes great photos, it's a photographer willing to put forth the work.
Lots of work. Hiking up an extra rope, and ascending gear, climbing a pitch, fixing your extra rope, rapping off, jugging back up with camera gear, film ect. Then getting your fixed rope down, and hiking 30 extra pounds of crap out.... It's a pain in the ass, but I think it's worth it to get a good photo documenting your local crag in the best possible light.
If you were willing to put forth the work to get into a good angle, and put the investment into film developing, you could get good photo's too! Most of my mediocre shooting is with a 70's manual pentax that is capable of taking pictures WAY better than I can.
Don't just dog the photo's on top. Contribute!
Travis
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madriver
Nov 7, 2003, 6:07 PM
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...he...he...
...exactly...wat Tenn_Dawg said....take for example this fine shot. It has opened up a whole new jenre of photo art. In fact it has spawned several knockoffs....so keep tryin...and you to may be the next "Rope Cowboy"... :lol:
http://www.rockclimbing.com/...p.cgi?Detailed=19162
....mr 8)
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climbsomething
Nov 7, 2003, 6:40 PM
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In reply to: Furthermore, just because someone might not have access to amazing equipment shouldn't prevent them from being in the spotlight for climbing something they are proud of or taking a picture of it.
And if somebody should be in the spotlight based on a photo, it better be a good photo, period. I mean, it's nice if your buddy finally pulled the crux move on that V4 but if the photo sucks, then...
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the_pirate
Nov 7, 2003, 6:48 PM
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In reply to: Popular vote = featured photo.
Bull Shit little girl. Clique Vote = featured photo. Not to discredit the quality of Jorg's or Overhang's photos, or even yours. But there are TONS of photos that are just as good that never get a single vote, let alone the requisite 5 to make it on the front page. There are a couple different photo-fan-clubs on the site that lavishly vote up their teams photos and never bother to look at or vote on any others.
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the_pirate
Nov 7, 2003, 6:50 PM
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In reply to: Popular vote = featured photo.
Bull Shit little girl. Clique Vote = featured photo. Not to discredit the quality of Jorg's or Overhang's photos, or even yours. But there are TONS of photos that are just as good that never get a single vote, let alone the requisite 5 within a month to make it on the front page. There are a couple different photo-fan-clubs on the site that lavishly vote up their teams photos and never bother to look at or vote on any others.
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akornylak
Nov 7, 2003, 7:43 PM
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In reply to: there are TONS of photos that are just as good that never get a single vote, let alone the requisite 5 within a month to make it on the front page. There are a couple different photo-fan-clubs on the site that lavishly vote up their teams photos and never bother to look at or vote on any others.
This is probably a troll but anyway, I doubt I have a "fan club". I prefer an honest vote. The idea is to have good content on the front page for RC.com, at the same time allowing for thousands of other photos that people would like to post for fun, to show routes, or whatever. The best way is by voting, and I think RC.com has done an excellent job at creating a sweet tool for climbing photo researching!
Please Pirate, point out some specific low-rated photos you think should be tops, and we'll discuss them.
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the_pirate
Nov 7, 2003, 8:30 PM
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In reply to: This is probably a troll but anyway, I doubt I have a "fan club". I prefer an honest vote. Please Pirate, point out some specific low-rated photos you think should be tops, and we'll discuss them.
No troll. You have no photos posted. Multiple e-personalities?
Sort the photo page by ascending and show pics going back a year. Look through 30 or so pages. There are a lot of good photos that never even got a single vote. Not to say that they are on the same level with Jorgs, but the requirement for the front page isn't "professional quality", is it? Yet one of climbsomething's pics makes the front page and there are immediately 3 comments congratulating her on getting a pic on the front page. That's a fan club.
The first requirement for voting on a pic is having a posted a pic yourself. That immediately eliminates about half the members. I'm not criticizing the manner in which RC.com selects photos for the front page cause really, I don't have a better method of doing it. I'm just saying, don't call it Popular Vote, because it is not. Popularity vote, perhaps, but not popular vote.
Before you accuse me of being jealous or some similar BS, let me assure you that such is not the case. Most of my "good" climbing pics are on slide film, and I lack a slide scanner so the pics that I do have posted are crap that was taken over the years with junk cameras, (read: junk glass) and probably processed at an hour lab. Just snapshots.
The one photo of mine that ever made it to the front page was an ice shot that was actually taken with a disposable box camera bought en-route when I realized that I had left my camera bag at home. Nice pic, but quickly voted down, most likely because it was fuzzy. Never know because unless you have a fan club people either comment and don't vote or vote but don't comment.
I just want to see more people vote on more pics. Really, does Gollum actually need a 47th person to vote it a 9 or 10? Does Jorg really need another person to go through his pics giving them all 9s and 10s. No. We all know that they are good pictures. But there are others that nobody takes the time to look at.
Maybe it's because the site is flooded with such a volume of pics every day that people are too lazy to wade through 4 pages of climbers hanging out at whoever-the-friks birthday, rc.com gathering. Or maybe the people that vote the most always vote on the pics of the people that they like the most.
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biff
Nov 7, 2003, 10:33 PM
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you bring up a good point pirate. There are way more photos comming in each day .. over 1200 in a month. When I first started browsing the roclimbing.com photos there was about 105 photographs TOTAL!! .. it has really taken off and with that groth comes difficulties.
In the near futre the photo section will be updated (as rc.com is always improving) and hopefully the new vastness of our photo section will become more managable.
I used to vote on every singe new photo that arrived .. now it isn't so easy to do that. One thing I enjoy doing is going through the routes Database, to find photographs from a country or state, and then voting on all the photographs in that area. I like looking at climbing areas that I probably will never get to climb at, and also looking at some of the finest climbing areas (and climbing photographs) in the world.
Hopefully the next modifications to the photo section will include a random photo voting system which will make voting on unseen photographs quick and easy .. but with that ease I can see abuse .. people will browse thorough photograhs giving eveyone a bad vote .. just to piss people off .. I guess we will have to solve that problem if it arises..
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thrasher
Nov 8, 2003, 12:15 AM
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In reply to: Bull s--- little girl. Clique Vote = featured photo. Not to discredit the quality of Jorg's or Overhang's photos, or even yours. But there are TONS of photos that are just as good that never get a single vote, let alone the requisite 5 to make it on the front page. There are a couple different photo-fan-clubs on the site that lavishly vote up their teams photos and never bother to look at or vote on any others.
Couldn't have said it better!
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rokshoxbkr19
Nov 8, 2003, 1:27 AM
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I agree that it is the photographer that takes the photos and makes them what they are. I happen to be a photographer and develop my own pictures. However, I don't have a digital camera and scanned pictures lose something when they are scanned in. My main point was that it does seem to be most of the same people getting their photos in the featured spot and I agree with the_pirate about great photos not even being voted on. I do think a lot of the featured photos are very nice and this wasn't to discredit those whose pictures are frequently featured it was just to discuss a point. I also want to point out that while I have some photos on this site, none of them were even taken by me and this wasn't out of sour grapes over not having my photos featured. I will be adding some of my own pictures soon and I only hope to have people view them and comment and vote whether they are 10's or -10's. Thanks for all the responses.
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lollipopchic
Nov 8, 2003, 2:00 AM
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In reply to: you bring up a good point pirate. There are way more photos comming in each day .. over 1200 in a month. When I first started browsing the roclimbing.com photos there was about 105 photographs TOTAL!! .. it has really taken off and with that groth comes difficulties.
Just a suggestion, perhaps the new photos can be sorted into those that can be voted on and those that can't be voted on. That might cut down the volume a bit, because a lot of photos that are submitted can't be voted on - and generally these are the not so good ones.
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tim
Nov 8, 2003, 2:41 AM
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In reply to: In reply to: This is probably a troll but anyway, I doubt I have a "fan club". I prefer an honest vote. Please Pirate, point out some specific low-rated photos you think should be tops, and we'll discuss them. No troll. You have no photos posted. Multiple e-personalities?
OMFG, this has to be the best bite ever. Andrew has posted several photos that ruled the front page for months, and has been published in Outside, among other big-$$$ magazines...
As far as cliquishness goes, it was worse without them. Biff applies some smoothing to discourage 'bombing' and 'puffing' (spite and blowjobs, to be blunt), and we restrict the pool of eligible voters (only people in glass houses get to throw stones around here). Unless you've been watching the photos since ~2001, you simply cannot have any idea how bad it used to be. Really spectacular photos would get bombed right off the front page because Billy Bob Boulderer wanted to pump up his latest V0 sit-start butt-shot. It was a farce...
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climbsomething
Nov 8, 2003, 2:44 AM
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In reply to: In reply to: Popular vote = featured photo. Bull s--- little girl. Clique Vote = featured photo. Not to discredit the quality of Jorg's or Overhang's photos, or even yours. But there are TONS of photos that are just as good that never get a single vote, let alone the requisite 5 to make it on the front page. There are a couple different photo-fan-clubs on the site that lavishly vote up their teams photos and never bother to look at or vote on any others.
There's a reason why I did not post photos for months, and why I am still reticent to. Even with all the work the coders have out into making things friendly for photogs, there's still attitudes that can't be coded out of existence. Thank you for confirming why this place can be such a joke sometimes.
And Andrew Kornylak? Rock & Ice, Climbing, BD Catalog, Gripped, Outside.
Cheers, mate...
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the_pirate
Nov 8, 2003, 3:18 AM
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In reply to: Bull s---, little pirate.
And Andrew Kornylak? Not familiar with his name, sorry. But then, I don't frequent the magazines often. He said he wanted an honest vote, I checked his profile and found no pics to honestly vote on.... Sorry I missed the BIG NAME......
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akornylak
Nov 10, 2003, 3:17 PM
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It looked like my photos were all missing, so I dumped them. I like to cycle them off after a while to keep things fresh anyway. I'll post a few more...
Pirate, FP photos do get more votes, because its easier. I do think a lot of people do searches for their favorite areas though, that digs deeper into the mix. It would be interesting to know what kind of searches people do on the photos, and to see stats on how many votes photos get according to their current rating. My guess is that the cream rises to the top.
Like I said, pick one in particular that you think lacks votes.
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jt512
Nov 10, 2003, 6:49 PM
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In reply to: In reply to: Bull s---, little pirate. I'm actually tempted to make that my sig. You have some great pictures posted here and I'm sure you worked your ass off to get them. That is far from my point. To deny that you especially have a fan club is to have your head in the sand. The pic of Kole on the prow, for example....63 votes for an average of 8.98. That means that at least 50 people voted this pic an 8,9, or 10 once it was alt\ready on the front page. (accounting for the bomber here or there). Why? Its a good pic, but why give an affirmation vote on top of so many other affirmation votes when there are so many pics not even voted on? Because they are voting for you.
Your reasoning is fallacious. Hillary has many photos posted. Some have gotten no votes at all, others are rated 5, many others 7's. I think that pic of Kole is fantastic; one of the very best trad shots on the site. Apparently, 50 or so other climbers do, too. The totality of the evidence suggests that Hilary's pics are not voted up by her popularitly on the site. If anything, she has had to work harder and shoot better than other photographers on the site to get recognition for her work.
-Jay
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akornylak
Nov 10, 2003, 7:05 PM
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Having no votes could mean a lot of things aside from quality. Did you vote for them? They still had no votes when I looked...
How about photos with low votes, say below 5?
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the_pirate
Nov 10, 2003, 7:18 PM
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I didn't want to vote on them because then someone would immediately call me a liar.... but I will.
In reply to: Having no votes could mean a lot of things aside from quality.
Exactly my point. Some pics never get voted while 50 - 150 people will jump on the bandwagon to vote up pics already on the FP. And then everyone complains when someone votes up their own pic. Maybe that's the only way to get it seen...
In reply to: How about photos with low votes, say below 5?
Once 30 days have past, those pics will no hope of ever seeing the light of the FP. Granted the photog or poster would probably still enjoy some feedback, but it takes some determination to wade that far back through the photo pile.
And please do post more pics. I'd like to see them. Especially since the droogs took such pleasure in slamming me for not knowing who you were.
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climbsomething
Nov 10, 2003, 7:50 PM
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In reply to: And then everyone complains when someone votes up their own pic. Maybe that's the only way to get it seen...
Somebody can (and will) correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe self-votes don't count. You can give yourself a 10 if you want to, but it won't factor into your photo's score. Thus, the pranksters who were giving lame photos 10s weren't self-voting- users other than the photog/poster voted. Again, there are always different ways to mess with the system (and infinite different ways to bitch about it all...)
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the_pirate
Nov 10, 2003, 8:20 PM
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My suspicion is that the pranksters are people with multiple usernames or people voting up their buddy's pics, becayse, no, you can't directly vote your on your own photo. But that's just my hypothesis.
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coldclimb
Nov 10, 2003, 8:23 PM
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I've had three pics on the front page, and I'm pretty darn sure that I do not have a fan club of any sort here. It truly is the general public's opinion that decides which ones make the front page.
And yes, I have noticed that self-voting doesn't count too. ;)
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rcaret
Nov 10, 2003, 8:28 PM
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In reply to: Dude, it's not expensive equipment that takes great photos, it's a photographer willing to put forth the work. Lots of work. Hiking up an extra rope, and ascending gear, climbing a pitch, fixing your extra rope, rapping off, jugging back up with camera gear, film ect. Then getting your fixed rope down, and hiking 30 extra pounds of crap out.... It's a pain in the ass, but I think it's worth it to get a good photo documenting your local crag in the best possible light. If you were willing to put forth the work to get into a good angle, and put the investment into film developing, you could get good photo's too! Most of my mediocre shooting is with a 70's manual pentax that is capable of taking pictures WAY better than I can. Don't just dog the photo's on top. Contribute! Travis
DITTO !!!!!!
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thomasribiere
Nov 10, 2003, 11:13 PM
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in the opposite, I have a huge fan club here, and my pics never get on the FP but one!
What? I have no fan club!? ARe you kidding!!!
To be serious, I'm sometimes sad when some of my pics get no vote at all. So I delete them after a while, since they don't seem to interest anyone. I always delete some pics which get low votes and were made in areas with already pics linked to.
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popol
Nov 13, 2003, 3:45 PM
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Hey, I'm new up here, so I can't vote (yet). But when I post some pictures, it's my purpose that as much people as possible let me know what they think about my pictures, and rate it honestly. That means high score if it's a nice picture, and - please - low score when it sucks. I can only hope that someone who knows me will also have the guts to give low rates, and that the ones who don't know me will not push my pictures downwards to benefit their own friends. That's what you call "trust the public opinion", and it's the only way to improve your next pictures...
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cliffhanger9
Moderator
Nov 13, 2003, 3:50 PM
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In reply to: Well, you may think they're lame, but it seems that the majority isn't quite with you on that one. Popular vote = featured photo. As long as the majority is still a big fan of climbnow1 or orangeoverhang, that's what you're gonna see. I am not sure how much room I have to talk yet, but having had a few FP photos lately, I can say: I try my best to add diversity. I photograph a lot of trad in addition to sport. I show people in helmets or not, people on 5.8 or 5.11, 20 year olds and 45 year olds, shirtless muscular guys and people in clothes (and not necessarily Prana). Joshua Tree or my podunk local crags. Many of my models are rc.com users, or just my buddies from school. See, I also wanted to see something other than 5.13+ sport climbing on another continent. Not out of spite, just because I wanted diversity too. Whether my efforts are well-received or not is out of my hands and I can speculate all I want as to why they might get bombed, but I try anyway. If you don't like the photos of perfectly attired hottie sport climbers, then add your own of "average joes" and/or prop up photos that show "regular" climbers. But don't give a lame back shot a 10 just for the sake of it. There is at least a glimmer of reason why Jorg has popular photos. Most of them ARE that good. So don't beat em, just join em if you can. ...But ah, nobody is ever really pleased around here. If we gave 10s out with less regard to technical/aesthetic merit, soon as you know it, there'd be threads whining about the crappy FP photos... :roll:
'nuff said.
ROCK ON!!! :mrgreen:
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melekzek
Nov 13, 2003, 5:24 PM
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I usually go through the top pictures first, enjoying them, and than move to the new section and try to vote as much as I can. But simply there are too many photos, and some of the beautiful ones get missed in the crowd. Heck, I sometimes do not vote a picture, just not to lower its rating such that other people will have a chance to see it.
About the fan club thing, if I see some exceptional spark in a picture, it might be the content, it might be the framing, it might be the colors, or it might be just an unusual angle, I follow the photographers other pictures, and sometimes I found some gems, which everybody missed so far.
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