|
roughster
Jun 5, 2004, 5:39 AM
Post #1 of 44
(4727 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Apr 3, 2002
Posts: 4003
|
Curious as to what people's breaking point is? DTSA has a fairly stiff 45 minute approach if you hike it with a decent clip. I used to think that 20-30 mins sucked, but now 45 mins is nothing.
So whats you're take?
|
|
|
|
|
ullr
Jun 5, 2004, 5:53 AM
Post #2 of 44
(4727 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jan 29, 2004
Posts: 338
|
Good routes, then I don't care how long the approach is.
|
|
|
|
|
climbinginchico
Jun 5, 2004, 7:22 AM
Post #3 of 44
(4727 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Mar 24, 2004
Posts: 3032
|
If there were awesome routes on TOP of Half Dome, I would hike there (stairs and cables and all) for killer climbing. Then again, I was stupid and did that hike twice in 3 days. Carrying food, clothes and water for everyone else too (6 other people). And the stove. and and and...
Maybe I'm crazy? :shock: naaawwwwwww.
Am I? :oops:
|
|
|
|
|
j_dub
Jun 5, 2004, 7:28 AM
Post #4 of 44
(4727 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Apr 3, 2004
Posts: 142
|
It's not the length of the hike, but the amount of 4th class terrain, loose soil and large loose boulders.. 30 degree slopes of chossy rock.. the amount of falling rock that could land on me, etc. My knees can only take so much before they're useless for the actual climb. The hike in last weekend was FAR more scary and dangerous than any climbing we did. Some people in my party jokingly offered me a belay down the choss hill after I slipped on some loose boulders a couple times. :wink:
Also, the ratio of climbs to effort expended to GET to the climbs.. we spent all day Saturday looking for routes, and finally got on a wall at 5:30pm. That was a ratio of 6 hours of intense 3rd and 4th class hiking for less than 3 hours of climbing. I got one climb in that day. I mean, hiking is nice, but next time, we are going to Kentucky. hmph.
|
|
|
|
|
overlord
Jun 5, 2004, 7:44 AM
Post #5 of 44
(4727 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Mar 25, 2002
Posts: 14120
|
depends on the quality of the crag and the type of the approach.
the crag i visit most often has about 15mins uphill easy approach (gravel road). i could easyly walk for more than an hour if the routes were worth it. but i really hate scree slopes.
|
|
|
|
|
joshklingbeil
Jun 5, 2004, 8:01 AM
Post #6 of 44
(4727 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jul 6, 2002
Posts: 403
|
I usally use this equation Height x Hike x Quality ......
|
|
|
|
|
dynocampusaurus
Jun 5, 2004, 8:05 AM
Post #7 of 44
(4727 views)
Shortcut
Registered: May 18, 2004
Posts: 4
|
In reply to: the crag i visit most often has about 15mins uphill easy approach (gravel road). i could easyly walk for more than an hour if the routes were worth it. but i really hate scree slopes.
15 minutes? That's pretty nice!
I've only been to one crag that was 15 minutes in. Most of the crags I climb at are at around 30 to 45. Hell, I've even gone 1.5 hours (granted, we were a little lost, but damn it was worth it when we got there)!
This is to be expected given Vancouver Island, though.
I don't mind the hard hikes - it can get you psyched for a climb, and also make you work hard enough that your warmup is quite minimal. However, it can also work in the opposite way where the hike has the potential to wear you out.
Long hikes are great on the way back for getting rid of some of the lactic acid buildup and to just enjoy the area!
|
|
|
|
|
joshklingbeil
Jun 5, 2004, 8:34 AM
Post #8 of 44
(4727 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jul 6, 2002
Posts: 403
|
I'll hike 2 to 3 hours to climb some easy chossy trad climb no question.....
|
|
|
|
|
asandh
Jun 5, 2004, 2:38 PM
Post #9 of 44
(4727 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Nov 13, 2002
Posts: 788
|
:?
|
|
|
|
|
roughster
Jun 5, 2004, 3:10 PM
Post #10 of 44
(4727 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Apr 3, 2002
Posts: 4003
|
Well fortunately this hike doesn't have a lot of scree or loose technical sections. Another nice thing is literally, you could not ask for a much more pituresque hike. My partners and I often speculate on what people will think about it.
We'll find out soon enough! The 1st RC.commie is invited out there next weekend. The true test of whether or not the approach is too long :lol:
|
|
|
|
|
coldclimb
Jun 5, 2004, 4:20 PM
Post #11 of 44
(4727 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jan 14, 2002
Posts: 6909
|
I like hiking almost as much as climbing. Well, maybe not almost as much, but I do enjoy it. ;) I'll hike for hours, whether I get to climb or not. If the climbing is good, it could be days.
|
|
|
|
|
ikefromla
Jun 5, 2004, 4:39 PM
Post #12 of 44
(4727 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Oct 23, 2002
Posts: 1216
|
There's a crag out here with an approximate 45 minute approach, though I usually do it in a little less than that. the rock is pretty chossy on the routes that haven't seen a lot of traffic, and it's still worth it. granted, the hike is beautiful, and hiking out of there is the perfect end to a long day of climbing.... followed by La Salsa and Cold Stone of course. :wink:
|
|
|
|
|
roughster
Jun 5, 2004, 4:53 PM
Post #13 of 44
(4727 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Apr 3, 2002
Posts: 4003
|
In reply to: There's a crag out here with an approximate 45 minute approach, though I usually do it in a little less than that. the rock is pretty chossy on the routes that haven't seen a lot of traffic, and it's still worth it. granted, the hike is beautiful, and hiking out of there is the perfect end to a long day of climbing.... followed by La Salsa and Cold Stone of course. :wink:
You mean Echo or Boney by chance?
|
|
|
|
|
superfox
Jun 5, 2004, 5:04 PM
Post #14 of 44
(4727 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Aug 24, 2003
Posts: 141
|
At my camp, we hiked up Huntington Ravine at Mount Washington (around 3 hours uphill I think) to try to FA some hard single-pitch climbs. Twice.
|
|
|
|
|
njari
Jun 5, 2004, 5:06 PM
Post #15 of 44
(4727 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Mar 18, 2003
Posts: 160
|
In reply to: I usally use this equation Height x Hike x Quality ......
Interesting idea joshklingbeil.
I came up with my own equation to calculate the "is it worth the approach" factor (Fwa):
Fwa= (height of route in m) (quality of route from 1 to 10)^2 / (approach time in min) (grade of approach, 1 to 5)
I squared the quality rating because it is by far the most important variable (to most climbers).
Some example Fwa's ("Worth-the-approach factor"):
Mission Gorge: 15 (5 quality, 20m height, short 12 min. uphill approach)
top of Mount Woodson: 10.8 (9 quality, 10m height, 1 hr uphill approach)
East Face of Mt Whitney: 12 (9.5 quality, 400m height, 24hr approach)
J-tree, Hidden Valley Campground: 400 (9 quality, 25 m, 5 min approach)
(no wonder Josh sees so much traffic while Whitney sees only a few parties a day!)
All the variables are subjective, but for me, an Fwa of > 10 means that the climbs warrant the approach.
What are the Fwa's of other crags?
|
|
|
|
|
njari
Jun 5, 2004, 5:26 PM
Post #17 of 44
(4727 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Mar 18, 2003
Posts: 160
|
In reply to: In reply to: Fwa= (height of route in m) (quality of route from 1 to 10)^2 / (approach time in min) (grade of approach, 1 to 5)(~150M (Height) x (8 (Quality)^2))/(45 mins x 1 (just hiking) = DTSA = 213 Not Too Shabby :lol: Auburn = 100x7^2/45 = 109 The only problem I see here is the route height is a little too heavily factored. I would adjust your formula too: ((Route Height/2)+(Quantity/2))x(Quailty^2)/(Approach Time)x(Technical Difficulty) This would factor in the quantity of routes which certainly effects how far one would be willing to hike. For example you could have a single multi-pitch climb of good quality out score a crag with 1000 5 star routes. That would be accounted for witht he "new" formula. I think we are on to something here!
I'll go with that.
The quantity could throw off the rating for a big wall with a single classic line (compared to a mecca that has thousand of climbs that won't be done on a given trip). So, maybe "quantity" should be the quantity of routes at the given quality rating that will be done in a single trip.
|
|
|
|
|
njari
Jun 5, 2004, 5:27 PM
Post #18 of 44
(4727 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Mar 18, 2003
Posts: 160
|
Maybe someone should come up with an equation to predict if I'll go to work today.
|
|
|
|
|
biff
Jun 5, 2004, 5:35 PM
Post #19 of 44
(4727 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Nov 5, 2001
Posts: 851
|
1.5 hours uphill on a goat trail with 700m Elevation Gain (about 2000 feet).
Bataan
|
|
|
|
|
caughtinside
Jun 5, 2004, 5:51 PM
Post #20 of 44
(4727 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jan 8, 2003
Posts: 30603
|
It's Double Top Secret, get it?!
Don't be sandbagged by roughster as I have been. THe hike is at least 3 hours to get to that 20 foot mound of choss! Oh, and the hike is all scree, and the air smells of sulphur. It sucks! Stay away! :P
|
|
|
|
|
roughster
Jun 5, 2004, 6:06 PM
Post #21 of 44
(4727 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Apr 3, 2002
Posts: 4003
|
In reply to: Maybe someone should come up with an equation to predict if I'll go to work today.
You have to understand this is a very complicated equation invloving the amount of beer in the fridge, the quality of sports on TV, your sex life, all set against how pissed you are at your boss and your budget buffer.
NOTE: This equation only works for males. Female version is still being worked on, but so far, there has been no logical pattern found that governs females thinking :lol:
(How Happy you are at work (1-3 scale) 1=Pissed/3=Happy)) X (3 + (# of times you have had sex with another person over last 3 days) - (( |Monthly Income-Monthly Bills) | /1000) / ((# of quality sport programs on TV)x(# of Beer in fridge)-(# of time's "Self Serviced Sexually over last 3 days ))x(chance of climbing in .## format)
As you can see as your beer, quality of TV Sports goes up, or chance of going climbing goes up, you are much less likely to go to work. BUT this is only true if you are either 2/3 at work AND have a positive cash inflow as related to your bills but it can't be too extreme wither way. If you have ALOT of bills in essence exceeding your income, its going to to take a lot of beer and sport + climbing to overcome that.
Lets run this by a real life person: me.
(3 X 5) - | (1500/1000) | / 1 (Seattle plays today) x 6 pack (straight from Nugget!) - 1 (oops :oops: )) x .30 (might go bouldering but doubtfull) = 9.0
The higher your score, the more likely it is you will go to work, provided it is a day you are supposed to go to work. Fortunately for me, I am not supposed to go, so my 9.0 which would normally mean I would, I can disgard.
At any point if there is no good sports, no beer, or 0% chance of climbing, you will go to work for sure!
Note: I haven't tried all the combinations so I am not quite sure if it holds up yet. more later! I'll try to run it by the Community Folks :lol:
|
|
|
|
|
njari
Jun 5, 2004, 6:45 PM
Post #22 of 44
(4727 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Mar 18, 2003
Posts: 160
|
In reply to: In reply to: Maybe someone should come up with an equation to predict if I'll go to work today. (How Happy you are at work (1-3 scale) 1=Pissed/3=Happy)) X (3 + (# of times you have had sex with another person over last 3 days) - (( |Monthly Income-Monthly Bills) | /1000) / ((# of quality sport programs on TV)x(# of Beer in fridge)-(# of time's "Self Serviced Sexually over last 3 days ))x(chance of climbing in .## format)
That's classic!
But, zero beer can give a negative result (so could no sex).
A little tweaking, and its good to go!
|
|
|
|
|
roughster
Jun 5, 2004, 7:01 PM
Post #23 of 44
(4727 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Apr 3, 2002
Posts: 4003
|
In reply to: In reply to: In reply to: Maybe someone should come up with an equation to predict if I'll go to work today. (How Happy you are at work (1-3 scale) 1=Pissed/3=Happy)) X (3 + (# of times you have had sex with another person over last 3 days) - (( |Monthly Income-Monthly Bills) | /1000) / ((# of quality sport programs on TV)x(# of Beer in fridge)-(# of time's "Self Serviced Sexually over last 3 days ))x(chance of climbing in .## format) That's classic! But, zero beer can give a negative result (so could no sex). A little tweaking, and its good to go!
True, back to the lab!
|
|
|
|
|
ikefromla
Jun 5, 2004, 9:25 PM
Post #24 of 44
(4727 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Oct 23, 2002
Posts: 1216
|
In reply to: You mean Echo or Boney by chance? |
|
|
|
|
brutusofwyde
Jun 22, 2004, 12:55 AM
Post #25 of 44
(4761 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Nov 3, 2002
Posts: 1473
|
In reply to: It's Double Top Secret, get it?!
As in:
"D.T.S., eh?"
Definitely Canadianspeak.
Brutus
|
|
|
|
|
chuffer
Jun 22, 2004, 1:03 AM
Post #26 of 44
(3892 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jun 3, 2004
Posts: 135
|
I used to do a pretty steep 45 min. to an hour to get to a certain semi secret granite crag in southern Utah. LOTS of 4th class through a very steep and strenuous boulderfield and some pretty nasty scree in a few areas. It was well worth every second. Cool temps in the summer, beautiful views, awesome setting, killer routes, and no people. I'm not sure if I would do the same approach for a lesser destination, though.
J
|
|
|
|
|
okie_redneck
Jun 22, 2004, 2:01 AM
Post #27 of 44
(3892 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Apr 25, 2004
Posts: 303
|
Some people refuse to go with me to my mom's house. Most of the routes still need cleaned. access is 4th class 300 feet down and 300 feet up on horrible scree with a bit of poison oak for flava. Oh, and on warm days in the winter, you can't walk 20 feet without running into a 5-foot or larger indigo snake because they have dens in cracks and caves and sometimes lunge at your face when you're not expecting anything. Anybody wanna come?
|
|
|
|
|
musicman
Jun 22, 2004, 2:19 AM
Post #28 of 44
(3892 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Apr 16, 2004
Posts: 828
|
the crux should not be in the approach :wink:
|
|
|
|
|
bsignorelli
Jun 22, 2004, 3:12 AM
Post #29 of 44
(3892 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Feb 1, 2003
Posts: 415
|
In reply to: 15 minutes? That's pretty nice! I've only been to one crag that was 15 minutes in.
15 minutes (or so) is about the norm for most popular areas (Sams Throne, HCR, Mt Mag, etc) in Arkansas. :)
Bryan
|
|
|
|
|
tradmanclimbs
Jun 22, 2004, 3:26 AM
Post #30 of 44
(3892 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Apr 24, 2003
Posts: 2599
|
It's all in the quality and quantity. 45 min. is about my limit for 6 nice 20 meter sport climbs but its nothing for a desert tower or 1000+foot tradline. Sport climbs by their very nature should have roadside access. Rumny, NRG etc. Longer bigger climbs are worth the hike. If a place has a whole boatload of 30 meter sportclimbs though it would be worth a considerable hike.
|
|
|
|
|
catbiter
Jun 22, 2004, 4:23 AM
Post #31 of 44
(3892 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Nov 12, 2003
Posts: 177
|
The lost crag in Connellsville has a hefty approach. About 45 minutes to a hour all uphill. It rocks though, so it's worth it.
|
|
|
|
|
climbsomething
Jun 22, 2004, 4:36 AM
Post #32 of 44
(3892 views)
Shortcut
Registered: May 30, 2002
Posts: 8588
|
Half an hour to 45 minutes pushes the limits of good taste for sport climbing, and best not all be uphill or boulder-hopping. If I wanted Geo-quads, I'd climb slabs.
|
|
|
|
|
itakealot
Jun 22, 2004, 5:01 AM
Post #33 of 44
(3892 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jul 8, 2003
Posts: 382
|
this is what really sucks. You spend over $25 on the latest guidebook and hike one hour with final the approach to the crag a bushwack on an overgrown trail. Then when you get to crag it is all gritty choss, like no one has climbed it since the routes were developed.
Then it really sucks when you realized you just hiked an hour to get there and you have to hike an hour to get back to your car.
This is when it is too long of an approach to get to a crag.
|
|
|
|
|
r6driver
Jun 22, 2004, 5:07 AM
Post #34 of 44
(3892 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Apr 1, 2004
Posts: 95
|
I've never hiked too long to get to a crag - I'm sure I'll one day find my limit though...
|
|
|
|
|
pbjosh
Jun 22, 2004, 6:07 AM
Post #35 of 44
(3892 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Mar 22, 2002
Posts: 1518
|
It's 45min - 90min to hike to Ceuse depending on what sector you're heading for, which trails you take, and how fit you are.
Considering that it's arguably the finest sport climbing on earth, it's a steal of an approach...
|
|
|
|
|
pbjosh
Jun 22, 2004, 6:21 AM
Post #36 of 44
(3892 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Mar 22, 2002
Posts: 1518
|
In reply to: In reply to: I usally use this equation Height x Hike x Quality ...... (5 quality, 20m height, short 12 min. uphill approach) top of Mount Woodson: 10.8 (9 quality, 10m height, 1 hr uphill approach) East Face of Mt Whitney: 12 (9.5 quality, 400m height, 24hr approach) J-tree, Hidden Valley Campground: 400 (9 quality, 25 m, 5 min approach)
Mission Gorge is about 30m in the area of The Wasp, etc, not that it helps it's quality much. Woodson is well under an hour to the top. Whitney E Face can be approached in 4-5 hours if you're fit, I don't know anyone who's taken more than about 8 and I've gotten to the base of the route in ~4 a few times.
|
|
|
|
|
brutusofwyde
Jun 22, 2004, 3:05 PM
Post #37 of 44
(3892 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Nov 3, 2002
Posts: 1473
|
In reply to: Whitney E Face can be approached in 4-5 hours if you're fit, I don't know anyone who's taken more than about 8 and I've gotten to the base of the route in ~4 a few times.
Sometimes it has taken me up to 5 days of humping to get myself and all of my gear to the base of the E. Face of Mt. Whitney.
This August, I hope to be up there with everything in under 4 days, since I'll have a few extra folks to help shuttle gear..
It sucks getting old and slow.
Brutus
|
|
|
|
|
pbjosh
Jun 22, 2004, 9:56 PM
Post #38 of 44
(3892 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Mar 22, 2002
Posts: 1518
|
In reply to: In reply to: Whitney E Face can be approached in 4-5 hours if you're fit, I don't know anyone who's taken more than about 8 and I've gotten to the base of the route in ~4 a few times. Sometimes it has taken me up to 5 days of humping to get myself and all of my gear to the base of the E. Face of Mt. Whitney. This August, I hope to be up there with everything in under 4 days, since I'll have a few extra folks to help shuttle gear.. It sucks getting old and slow. Brutus
I'm gonna go with the assumption that you'll not be carrying gear for 4 days to climb the E Face or E Butt or similar, which is an assumption I was making in my approach times ;)
|
|
|
|
|
wetrocks
Jun 22, 2004, 11:00 PM
Post #39 of 44
(3892 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Apr 22, 2002
Posts: 102
|
It's the approach that keeps the fat off! Any crag less than a half hour hike away I consider close. Crags more than an hour in are cutting into climbing time. I tend to go to crags that have a bit of an approach cuz there's less chance of bumping in to other people.....and......to work off the winter padding.
|
|
|
|
|
climbinjunkie
Jun 24, 2004, 12:50 PM
Post #40 of 44
(3892 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Oct 13, 2002
Posts: 8
|
you know, if you find the right crag (out here in Montana), there's NO approach hike, and you can belay from the back of your truck with the stereo on :) But I've also been known to hike 3-4 hours of backcountry to find good climbing. I figure if it's a good climb, any hike is worth it, and if it's a good hike, then it's worth it by itself
Andy
==============
Remember:
If you don't have to sign a waiver,
It's probably not worth doing . . .
|
|
|
|
|
gottarock
Jun 24, 2004, 1:23 PM
Post #41 of 44
(3892 views)
Shortcut
Registered: May 4, 2004
Posts: 129
|
the longer the approach... the less populated the crag....
at Shelf Rd. a couple weeks ago, all the routes near the parking area were full.... we walked 10 minutes further and had our choice of a dozen great routes. go figure.
I don't mind hiking an hour to get on some great rock. thats probably why I'm more attracted to trad climbing.... my pack is bigger and heavier, the approaches are even longer and it makes my experience feel more like an adventure.
|
|
|
|
|
haroldhal
Jun 28, 2004, 9:36 PM
Post #42 of 44
(3892 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jun 28, 2004
Posts: 8
|
Is it really hiking if you only have sport gear or is just walking?
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
muncher
Jun 28, 2004, 10:02 PM
Post #44 of 44
(3892 views)
Shortcut
Registered: May 5, 2003
Posts: 454
|
For me the distance to the crag is inversly proportional to the damage I can epect to happen to my car. For example, 15 sec walk in, rock on the roof, $450 insurance excess, 5 minute walk in, tree branch through the rear windscreen, $350 insurance excess, 45 minute walk in, nothing.
But really, can anything over 10 minutes really be classified as sport climbing, I mean it's just not in the spirit of it at all is it.
For me though, I am quite happy to walk 45 minutes ( Thats the longest sport crag approach in the Blue Mountains at this point in time) to do some sport climbing, as long as the crag is high quality. There is plenty of choss close to the road, no need to punish yourself any further for that.
|
|
|
|
|
|
