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sync
Jul 6, 2004, 2:53 PM
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At the risk of accusations of trolling and attacks on my naivete and lack of experience, I am posting photos of another anchor I saw at Devil's Lake this past Sunday - one made by one of the RC.com members, who condones the posting.
The experienced member of our group called me over to take a photo of this anchor after viewing the previous one, saying that I should take photos of good anchors as well. Is this good? I'll let you guys discuss its merits:
The climber had just finished sewing up Brinton's Crack and set this anchor at the top, from which to belay his second.
http://img78.photobucket.com/...anchors/IMG_3359.jpg
You can see the knot in the cordelette just under his left knee.
Closeup of the two cam placements in the foreground:
http://img78.photobucket.com/...anchors/IMG_3360.jpg
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wings
Jul 6, 2004, 2:59 PM
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Assuming that the blocks are solid (looks to be) and the direction of pull of the cams is correct (hard to tell from the angle of the shot), I think it looks good. I'd climb on it.
- Seyil
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rocdaug
Jul 6, 2004, 3:02 PM
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the angle looks a little greater than 30degrees (witch is ideal) but that's all I could see. I'd have no problem using this anchor.
rd
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billcoe_
Jul 6, 2004, 3:12 PM
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Works for me, the only thing I would do differently would be to personally clip into the powerpoint. A sitting belay, with a snug anchor rope (ie, no slack), is unbeatable.
But thats me.
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lambone
Jul 6, 2004, 3:17 PM
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Looks good. Two bomber cams and a nut that looks buried, tied off properly with a chord-o-let. Looks like he is using a Reverso to belay the second, which with his less then ideal belay stance is probably the best possible method.
Why did you pos this picture? What is your assesment?
That yellow camolot looks a bit over cammed, may be hard to get out.
Funny I placed many anchors in those same cracks over 15 years ago when i was first learning to climb. Of course the only gera I had back then was a set of nuts and some hexes. I enjoyed Devils Lake, but it was a madhouse back then, I can't imagine it now!
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sync
Jul 6, 2004, 3:27 PM
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In reply to: Looks good. Two bomber cams and a nut that looks buried, tied off properly with a chord-o-let. Looks like he is using a Reverso to belay the second, which with his less then ideal belay stance is probably the best possible method. Why did you pos this picture? What is your assesment?
My assessment, if I'm allowed to critique it ;), is that it looks good to me. The angle is a bit large, but the cams looks solid and I know the rock isn't moving anywhere. Doug, standing in the photo, said that the one cam looks overcammed as you mention but I think the climber was low on gear so had to place that cam in a less than ideal position.
In reply to: Funny I placed many anchors in those same cracks over 15 years ago when i was first learning to climb. Of course the only gera I had back then was a set of nuts and some hexes. I enjoyed Devils Lake, but it was a madhouse back then, I can't imagine it now!
That day the Lake was virtually empty (it was actually raining on our drive up). My group was first to show up, and these guys were second. It was very nice to have our pick of any climb on the East Rampart.
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alpnclmbr1
Jul 6, 2004, 3:43 PM
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The anchor looks fine as long as he is clipped into the power point with his rope.
Belaying with a grigri, cam side down on a flat ledge is a BIG problem as far as I am concerned.
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euroford
Jul 6, 2004, 3:48 PM
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Sync and i PM'd back and forth a bit while he decieded if he should post my anchor, or if he should bother posting any anchor pics whatsoever. I suggested that he should post mine, considering the string of "bad anchor" threads that we have had lately and the degenrating clusterflubs that result i felt we should switch it up and post something decent for a change.
what he have here:
#10 BD Stopper in left crack
#1.75 DMM 4CU in right crack
#2 BD Camelot in right crack
each piece is clipped with a BD Ovalwire and strung together with a 7mm cordolette.
I am belaying straight off the anchor with a Petzl Gri-Gri hooked in with a HB HMS autolocker and i've tied myself in short with the rope with a figure 8 into a BD enduro screwgate.
Both of the cams are very well barried, i inserted each can into the crack and pulled it forward into constriction. the are well cammed, though were easily removed after being moved backwards into wider portions of the crack. the nut is textbook bomber.
the cordollete angle is definitly okay, though a bit less than ideal. i could have extended one of the pieces and moved my powerpoint, but i didn't want it to be over the edge as i was belaying straight off the anchor. of course, this brings up another problem and my only real objection to my anchor. the rope runs over an edge, not a very sharp one but an edge none the less. not a real worry as loads would be low in the unlikely event of a fall, the rope was a fat 10.5 and new. though if i had a pack with me i would have padded the edge with it.
i was pretty happy with this setup, especially considering that it was built with the pieces remaining on my rack with no consideration for what pieces i would actually need on top. i ended up rapping back down on this anchor to clean a stuck hex, then steve rapped down, we pulled the rope and he lead the route with me following.
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tradklime
Jul 6, 2004, 4:00 PM
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THe only thing I noticed was that it appears the direction of rope travel is not in line with how the anchor was equalized, i.e. in the event of a fall, the nut will take all, or most, of the load. I point this out because it is a common problem with cordelette anchors.
Could just be the angle of the photo though.
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euroford
Jul 6, 2004, 4:03 PM
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it looks that way becouse i'm pulling the rope over with my left hand while holding the grigri cammed.
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nut_tool
Jul 6, 2004, 4:09 PM
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So what is this? A post for you guys to pat yourselves on the back because you know how to set an anchor? Hummm...nice work...good job...looks bomber...you guys rock...
Give me a fuking break.
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lambone
Jul 6, 2004, 4:10 PM
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The biggest problem with this system is that godawfull PINK rope....sheesh burn that thing before somebody sees you with it!
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elvislegs
Jul 6, 2004, 4:11 PM
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atothesthedtothef.
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euroford
Jul 6, 2004, 4:21 PM
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In reply to: So what is this? A post for you guys to pat yourselves on the back because you know how to set an anchor? Hummm...nice work...good job...looks bomber...you guys rock... Give me a fuking break.
considering that you have a total of 6 posts, and that 3 of them have been worthlessly negative, i'd say your heading down the wrong road if you want to be a usefully contributing member of this community.
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corpse
Jul 6, 2004, 4:28 PM
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In reply to: So what is this? A post for you guys to pat yourselves on the back because you know how to set an anchor? Hummm...nice work...good job...looks bomber...you guys rock... Give me a fuking break.
so should only bad anchor pics be posted to rip apart. Did you read either of john longs anchor books? If not, then you can keep your above comment. If you did, then you understand the benefit of looking at good AND bad anchors, as Long demonstrates and explains both in his book. These good and bad anchor threads are good, as we can discuss the good and bad points.. You'd think after about 5 or 6 of these threads, the jackasses with unimportant comments would keep quiet.
To comment on the anchor - it's all good. euro, the reason the one person commented on the grigri being down, is I think certain positions are more prone to allow debris to stay in the device. Which is certainly a rarity, and even more unlikely to have an accident as a result - but in the accident forum, there is the ONE case where a sharp rock piece likely entered the grigri, and cut the rope while lowering someone, the rope ripped in half, and the person is now dead. but its fine to use the grigri anyways.
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elvislegs
Jul 6, 2004, 4:48 PM
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In reply to: In reply to: So what is this? A post for you guys to pat yourselves on the back because you know how to set an anchor? Hummm...nice work...good job...looks bomber...you guys rock... Give me a fuking break. considering that you have a total of 6 posts, and that 3 of them have been worthlessly negative, i'd say your heading down the wrong road if you want to be a usefully contributing member of this community.
i'd say that he or she is on the interstate highway to usefullycontributingmembershipofcommunity.
posting negativity in boring over-done threds is a sevice and i solute you nut-tool.
ok everyone, you can go back to your trad-tech circle jerk now. heh.
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nut_tool
Jul 6, 2004, 4:55 PM
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In reply to: considering that you have a total of 6 posts, and that 3 of them have been worthlessly negative, i'd say your heading down the wrong road if you want to be a usefully contributing member of this community.
I guess I have to establish some sort of posting credibility to point out your hubris?
Posted by: euroford
Posted: Sat Aug 31, 2002 8:16 pm
"okay, as i'm gradually getting into the sport of climbing"
Posted by: corpse
Posted: Sat Jan 25, 2003 8:39 pm
"All of my climbing, except 1 joshua tree trip, has been in the gym"
So with a combined 3 years of climbing between you guys are the experts? I'll say it again, give me a fuking break...
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curt
Jul 6, 2004, 4:57 PM
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In reply to: In reply to: considering that you have a total of 6 posts, and that 3 of them have been worthlessly negative, i'd say your heading down the wrong road if you want to be a usefully contributing member of this community. I guess I have to establish some sort of posting credibility to point out your hubris? Posted by: euroford Posted: Sat Aug 31, 2002 8:16 pm "okay, as i'm gradually getting into the sport of climbing" Posted by: corpse Posted: Sat Jan 25, 2003 8:39 pm "All of my climbing, except 1 joshua tree trip, has been in the gym" So with a combined 3 years of climbing between you you guys are the experts? I'll say it again, give me a fuking break...
STFU n00b. :wink:
Curt
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wings
Jul 6, 2004, 5:03 PM
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In reply to: I guess I have to establish some sort of posting credibility to point out your hubris?
No. What you have to do is say something useful. You've failed (although it was a good try!). Come back when you have something constructive to say.
- Seyil
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ax
Jul 6, 2004, 5:07 PM
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I like seeing the anchors posts! good and bad... I don't comment on them much, but I find it helpfull to read others evaluations.
Keep 'em comin'
PEACE
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corpse
Jul 6, 2004, 5:09 PM
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In reply to: Posted by: corpse Posted: Sat Jan 25, 2003 8:39 pm "All of my climbing, except 1 joshua tree trip, has been in the gym" So with a combined 3 years of climbing between you guys are the experts? I'll say it again, give me a fuking break...
hey tool, err, nut_tool, where do either of us discuss our experience in any "expert" way? I have gone climbing outside since then, not hundreds of times, but a dozen or so (in time it'll hit the hundred mark), so at least find a more recent reference. However, the point of this message isn't to defend that. You are simply being a tool - shut up or contribute - regardless of your skill/experience level.. noobs and masters alike can *contribute* to these threads, without some tool like you trolling around. I never speak of things I don't know, when I do, then come flame me.
BTW - THANK YOU for taking time out of your day to find some old post of mine stating some old fact, it warms me knowing you have thought so much about me :oops:
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billcoe_
Jul 6, 2004, 5:25 PM
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sync , thanks for posting. Personally, I still like seeing crap like that. Sometimes while waiting for a route to clear or just taking a break, I'll stuff some pro in just to look at it. After like 33 years I still find it interesting.
I'm strange that way.
Hell, I even like the pink rope, it adds interest and color to the pic.
So thanks again, if somebody doesn't want to look at it, they don't have too.
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ricks308
Jul 6, 2004, 5:38 PM
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Should he be sitting on the rope?
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myusername
Jul 6, 2004, 5:39 PM
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In reply to: In reply to: Belaying with a grigri, cam side down on a flat ledge is a BIG problem as far as I am concerned. as far as i'm concerned, i belay with a grigri like anything else. if a fall took place i would first be stopping that fall with my brake hand.
Good for you as you probably should but...
I'm curious and not in a sarcastic belittling kind of way... have you ever tried that? A grigri uncammed offers little friction, especially if you are taken off guard or if there is a chance for the climber to build a little momentum (a little slack). Friction through other points or edges may help but that shouldn't be a factor in your safety analysis. Try holding a fall with the grigri uncammed (if you have not) before trusting it. Generally you need a glove. I sometimes use a grigri to belay a second but if there is a chance that the cam-action could be compromised I use something else like a munter hitch. Just something to consider.
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coylec
Jul 6, 2004, 5:44 PM
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Great Anchor ... I'll give it an "A". The only problem has already been noted - the nut placement is bit wide. The alternative would be to slot another piece in with the cams. Puts all your eggs in the same feature, so the anchor created is probably the best option. I'd drop a compact car on it with confidence. :lol:
It seems to me that these anchor threads are very well marked -- its not like people are finding them by accident. It's not like you named the thread "hot college sex" or "what shoe should i buy". If you don't like anchor threads, why are you (1) clicking on the link, (2) reading the thread, (3) posting your dislike. Wouldn't it just be easier to ignore it? I mean, seriously, does Adam have you hooked up like Alex de Large and force you read these threads?
coylec
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euroford
Jul 6, 2004, 5:46 PM
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your definitly right about the grigri taking a good bit of force to control when it won't cam. but it is 100% doable as long as you are aware of how it feels. fortunatly its my principle tool for roped access work and i have an above average amount of experience with the tool. both points made about the grigri are valid points of discusion, however i felt very good about using the device in the discussed situation.
i've been carrying a trango b52 for my last couple of trips for lead belay/rappel use and i'm starting to really like it. i think i'll try the autoblock soon.
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brutusofwyde
Jul 6, 2004, 5:49 PM
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Looks good.
Second the comment about the grigri.
Here we have an anchor placed in two separate crack systems. Although this anchor is likely bombproof, this is the kind of situation where you want to take a long hard look at whether or not those cracks are on either side of a loose block. Apparently not the case here, but something to keep in mind when building anchors.
One last comment: In addition to tying into the power point, I would have run the rope back to one of the anchor pieces and tied in there as well, adding redundancy to my own tie-in.
Brutus
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shakylegs
Jul 6, 2004, 5:59 PM
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Are you sitting on your rope?
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lambone
Jul 6, 2004, 5:59 PM
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Is that other guy standing there tied into anything? Not the smartest place to hang out if he isn't...obviously.
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pixelguru
Jul 6, 2004, 6:21 PM
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LOOK OUT!!!! That guy in sneakers is trying to steal a cam off your harness while your back is turned!!!
Seriously, thanks for posting this. I came up with something similar belaying from the top at Rocks S.P., which looks just like this photo.
I just made sure there was a nice straight line between the anchor and the direction any fall was going to pull from, and no slack in the system. It was a little cramped being clipped in short like that, but the only other option I could think of was doing a hanging belay over the side... and I wasn't going to do that if I didn't need to.
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ricardol
Jul 6, 2004, 6:40 PM
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anchor looks fine -- good example of a using a cordalette to equalize (pseudo equalize -- for the nitpickers) .. the 3 pieces ..
.. why the heck do we need 3 pages of postings for a good anchor --
the pictures + a description of why its good should be enough --
-- ricardo
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yorb
Jul 6, 2004, 7:05 PM
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you can't make everyone happy, and some people never.
the anchor looks a lot better then the other ones being shown.
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lightningwolf73
Jul 6, 2004, 7:14 PM
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From the pictures it looks like the stems on both cams stick above the crack, although only slightly. If this is the case, wouldnt the pull on them then be perpendicular to the cams, which I thought is bad.
Could just be the picture though.
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scotto
Jul 6, 2004, 7:50 PM
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I would be most concerned with the other person standing there - it looks like he is going to put a blue camalot in the wrong crack!!!!!
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tedc
Jul 7, 2004, 3:56 PM
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Can I nitpick please? I mean it's a pretty good anchor so if it is to be valuable we have to find something to "analyze".
If possible (with the gear available) I would have sunk the 2 cams just a bit deeper so as to load the webbing over the edge instead of the stems. The camalot is fine in a TR situation but I wouldn't like to subject it to a high load over an edge like that. The DMM has the webbing "pinched" between the cable and a pretty sharp rock edge...a bit rough on your sling at least (dangerous at most).
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okieterry
Jul 7, 2004, 4:23 PM
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Gotta go with Ted about the cams needing to be just a little deeper and everyone that thinks that the belayer should be anchored in directly and belaying off of his harness with the grigri.
Otherwise...just marvelous!
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lambone
Jul 7, 2004, 4:36 PM
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In reply to: everyone that thinks that the belayer should be anchored in directly and belaying off of his harness with the grigri.
No, not true at all.
I think he made a wise choice to belay staraight off the anchor, it is safer for both the belayer and climber, especialy so in this situation.
It's pretty obvious that belaying off the harness could be potentialy very uncomfortable and dangerous while sitting perched on that ledge like that. Especialy if the second is a hangdogger.
Belaying directly off the anchor is the safer and prefered method, which is why so many certified guides use this method.
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kindredhawk
Jul 7, 2004, 4:55 PM
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finally a decent anchor has been posted... looks good i say despite all the negative "oh good job pat yourselves on the back" crap i learn a lot from good anchors being posted. if you got more i know i'd like to see them i learn a lot from this stuff.
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euroford
Jul 14, 2004, 3:28 PM
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i bring this back up and add another comment to it, i'm now going to retire my grigri from use as indicated in this thread. i'll now be using a trango b-52 to bring up a second. after playing with the device a bit i'm very convinced that its supperior for this use and will eliminate all of the concerns that users have expressed about use of the grigri.
my gearheads thread about the device:
http://www.rockclimbing.com/...iewtopic.php?t=65651
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taino
Jul 14, 2004, 3:41 PM
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In reply to: So what is this? A post for you guys to pat yourselves on the back because you know how to set an anchor? Hummm...nice work...good job...looks bomber...you guys rock... Give me a fuking break.
ASDF ASDF :roll:
To the guy who built the anchor: nice job. Yeah, the #2 is a bit overcammed; however, it's what you had, and I'd rather have a cam be overcammed than undercammed. :righton:
T
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gullwing19
Jul 14, 2004, 4:55 PM
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Um......pretty small block......shouldn't that guy in the back with the tennies and no harness maybe tie in? You should tell him that falling a hundred feet might hurt.
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euroford
Jul 14, 2004, 5:02 PM
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i wasn't bothered buy him not being tied in, i was keeping a sharp eye out for him trying to snag that 3.5 camelsnot off my harness, if he went for it a quick elbow behind the knee would send him for a ride.
on a serious note, yeah thats pretty damn dumb of him to be standing like that.
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dingus
Jul 14, 2004, 5:05 PM
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In reply to: LOOK OUT!!!! That guy in sneakers is trying to steal a cam off your harness while your back is turned!!!
I had a different thought...
DMT
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jt512
Jul 14, 2004, 6:11 PM
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The anchor looks good. Nice, clean 3-piece setup apparently well equalized with a cordelette. Maybe tweak the angle of the cams to align them better with the direction of the pull.
In reply to: In reply to: Belaying with a grigri, cam side down on a flat ledge is a BIG problem as far as I am concerned. as far as i'm concerned, i belay with a grigri like anything else. if a fall took place i would first be stopping that fall with my brake hand.
Here, you really f*cked up. Alpnclmbr1 is absolutely correct. You violated one of the basic rules for using the grigri. You must always ensure that the rock will not interfere with the camming mechanism. If the cam is jammed opened, you could probably still hold a toprope fall; however, you are deluded if you think you could hold a lead fall with a grigri with the cam open. A grigri with the cam open does not function like an ATC.
-Jay
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stevep
Jul 14, 2004, 6:57 PM
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It is possible to hold a fall with the cam open if your technique is good enough.
In my younger, stupider days, a friend and I were playing around taking lead falls (20 ft.) off an outdoor tower. We were using a GriGri. After several repetitions, I must not have been paying too much attention and threaded the GriGri backwards (not too different than cam open). My friend jumped, and went for a 35 ft ride, stopping 6 ft from the ground. He stopped because I had him in lock off position, as if the GriGri were a belay plate. I ended up with some nice friction burns on my palm and a lesson I'll not forget.
So, if you can stop that kind of fall, you can certainly stop a minor fall such as one generated by bringing up a second.
That said, it would still be better to use the GriGri in a vertical orientation, or to use something else.
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euroford
Jul 14, 2004, 7:40 PM
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In reply to: Here, you really f*cked up. Alpnclmbr1 is absolutely correct. You violated one of the basic rules for using the grigri. You must always ensure that the rock will not interfere with the camming mechanism. If the cam is jammed opened, you could probably still hold a toprope fall; however, you are deluded if you think you could hold a lead fall with a grigri with the cam open. A grigri with the cam open does not function like an ATC. -Jay
1. the rock will not interfere with the grigri. as you can see i am actually holding it in a cammed postion away from the rock with my left hand while holding the brake side with my right hand.
2. -if- the cam jammed open i could definitly hold a toprope fall.
3. i'm not belaying a leader, but if that were the case the anchor would be diffrent and and position diffrent, reguardless, i don't use the device this way.
4. this forum has a prejiduce against grigris, when used correctly they are an excellent and reliable tool.
5. as i mentioned a page ago, i'm actually removing the grigri from my trad kit to replace it with a b52 while is significantly more reliable in this situation. actually manufacturer recomended for off-hands belay.
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jt512
Jul 15, 2004, 6:02 PM
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In reply to: In reply to: Here, you really f*cked up. Alpnclmbr1 is absolutely correct. You violated one of the basic rules for using the grigri. You must always ensure that the rock will not interfere with the camming mechanism. If the cam is jammed opened, you could probably still hold a toprope fall; however, you are deluded if you think you could hold a lead fall with a grigri with the cam open. A grigri with the cam open does not function like an ATC. -Jay 4. this forum has a prejiduce against grigris, when used correctly they are an excellent and reliable tool.
I agree. However, you are using it incorrectly.
-Jay
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euroford
Jul 15, 2004, 11:30 PM
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In reply to: In reply to: 4. this forum has a prejiduce against grigris, when used correctly they are an excellent and reliable tool. I agree. However, you are using it incorrectly. -Jay
your going to have to offer a better explaination than that becouse i think your flat wrong. what truly makes you believe that, as shown in that photo, the gri gri would be anything less than absolutly reliable? what makes you think it wouldn't lock up? sure its not likely the best device for this particular application (imo, that would be a b52 or a reverso), but its definitly not the worst (imo, that would be belaying directly off your harness with an atc/tube type device).
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alpnclmbr1
Jul 15, 2004, 11:42 PM
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In reply to: your going to have to offer a better explaination than that becouse i think your flat wrong. what truly makes you believe that, as shown in that photo, the gri gri would be anything less than absolutly reliable? what makes you think it wouldn't lock up?
You might try the owners manual that came with your grigri. That is usually where you can find the answers to questions like this.
The fact that you do not know what it says in the owners manual, does not say much for your "familiarity with the device."
And belaying with a plate device off your harness is a better way for this situation.
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jt512
Jul 16, 2004, 2:06 AM
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In reply to: In reply to: In reply to: 4. this forum has a prejiduce against grigris, when used correctly they are an excellent and reliable tool. I agree. However, you are using it incorrectly. -Jay your going to have to offer a better explaination than that becouse i think your flat wrong. what truly makes you believe that, as shown in that photo, the gri gri would be anything less than absolutly reliable? what makes you think it wouldn't lock up?
It is scary that you have to ask. The photo shows the grigri on the ground, upsidedown, with the cam pressing against the rock. If the grigri were loaded in a fall in this position, the cam would be forced down on the rock, which would hold it open.
-Jay
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dirtineye
Jul 16, 2004, 2:23 AM
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So, euroford, you think you can hold that gri-gri off the ground when your pal falls?
The only thing that seems to be securing the gri-gri is the anchor, which is right on the rock.
I would not count on that. It's Possible that you might hold the gri-gri off the rock, but it's also Possible (moreso in my mind) taht you woudl at least get yoru fingers pinched between rope and rock and maybe even let go when this happens.
These guys are being awfully gentle with you...
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euroford
Jul 16, 2004, 6:48 PM
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yawn.....
beware the internet rock jock grigri patrol......
in a nutshell, that belay was solid, and given the belay tools on my harness was by far the best technique available for the given situation.
though fortunatly i'll not be using a grigri in the future, at least the b52 will eleminate the discusion of percieved belay errors reguardless of them acutally existing or not.
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jt512
Jul 16, 2004, 9:33 PM
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In reply to: yawn..... beware the internet rock jock grigri patrol......
Beware of know-it-all gumbies.
Some of us who are trying to correct you have caught over 1000 falls with a grigri without incident. Maybe you should shut up and listen.
In reply to: in a nutshell, that belay was solid, and given the belay tools on my harness was by far the best technique available for the given situation.
Yeah, upsidedown, with the rock preventing the cam from engaging. Yep, that's the ideal.
-Jay
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euroford
Jul 17, 2004, 12:02 AM
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i've listened, but now your being condiscending. the fact of the matter, is that you wern't there, i was, and the only thing i think your trying to get by posting in this way is some kind of validation along the lines of me saying "oh your right oh guru of internet grigri advise". well i'm not going to, though i'll admit an autoblocking device would have been and will in the future be a better choice. but i must ask, what would YOU have done? if you say belay of your harness with an atc/tube -your- flat wrong, you would definity not have good control at this stance using that technique. it leaves a good chance of you getting yanked off the ledge and losing control of the belay than your percieved risk of grigri failure.
so having cought so many falls with a grigri, are you some kind of sport or gym climber?? i've definitly never cought a leader fall with a grigri, cuz i don't use it that way. have i cought some tr and second falls? yeah. but definitly not many, cuz i don't sport climb, i don't gym climb regularly, i havn't topropped in ages and i don't hang out with followers who are gunna whip like crazy on toprope.
a gumby i may be, a know it all i'm definitly not and i don't think i'm giving that impresion. i do know enough to make a solid belay however, and i'm not here sitting at my computer attempting to act supperior. i'm definitly more than open to constructive criticsims.
oh yeah, and btw, do you really know which way that grigri is oriented? you can tell which way i'm holding it while brining in slack, but not which was the anchor is actually setup.
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coclimber26
Jul 17, 2004, 12:32 AM
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The placements look fine but belaying with the cam side down on the gri-gri is a fatal mistake for beginners...always belay/rappel with the handel facing your body.
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euroford
Jul 17, 2004, 12:41 AM
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if your right handed, the handle faces away from your body.
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coclimber26
Jul 17, 2004, 12:45 AM
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Petzl recommends never using the grigri with the handel away from your body no matter what handed you are, the lever can get trapped in the open position against the rock.
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nut_tool
Jul 17, 2004, 2:12 AM
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In reply to: if your right handed, the handle faces away from your body.
If you're competent enough to brake with either hand, your partner lives.... (note proper use of you're and your)
:lol: :lol: :lol: ...gumbie.... :lol:
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jt512
Jul 17, 2004, 3:28 AM
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In reply to: i'll admit an autoblocking device would have been and will in the future be a better choice.
An "autoblocking device"? What's that?
In reply to: ...but i must ask, what would YOU have done?
I'd have belayed off my harness, and probably re-directed the rope through the anchor.
In reply to: if you say belay of your harness with an atc/tube -your- flat wrong, you would definity not have good control at this stance using that technique. it leaves a good chance of you getting yanked off the ledge and losing control of the belay than your percieved risk of grigri failure.
Actually, I'd have been tied-in, so I wouldn't be knocked off the apparent 500-foot high ledge. So, you weren't tied it? This just keeps getting better.
In reply to: i'm definitly more than open to constructive criticsims.
Well, by my count, 4 people have told you that you weren't belaying properly, and you've done nothing but denied it. That's a funny way of being open to criticism.
In reply to: oh yeah, and btw, do you really know which way that grigri is oriented?
You posted a freakin' picture of it!
-Jay
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dirtineye
Jul 17, 2004, 3:45 AM
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In reply to: In reply to: oh yeah, and btw, do you really know which way that grigri is oriented? You posted a freakin' picture of it! -Jay
See, when you belay with your right hand as the brake hand, and left as the guide, the cam faces out, with your hands in the position that picture shows.
By the way, you did tie in didn't you?
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onbelay007
Jul 29, 2004, 3:23 AM
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Wow, I finally just noticed this post. What's wrong with my pink rope? Well, besides being pink. It was on sale so I had to take advantage of it. Euroford, you were sitting on my rope and now I have proof!! You owe me a beer hahaha!
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brianthew
Jul 29, 2004, 3:37 AM
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In reply to: wouldn't be knocked off the apparent 500-foot high ledge
heh...if only Devil's Lake had something half that....
Us midwesterners gotta take what we get.
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timpanogos
Jul 29, 2004, 4:13 AM
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Standup, turn around, butterfly your rope over your tie-in/cord-a-let, re-direct the belay throught the PP or some other point on your anchor.
1. your grigri problem is solved (and that is scary, in solo aid, you simply sqeeze that cam while climbing up - doesn't take much sqeeze, and it appears you would have gotten plenty of it)
2. you are in super stable position for any fall/lowering that might be required
3. you can easily look over your shoulder and watch your second.
4. rope is stacked and ready to toss for rap, or tie off for walk-off.
Face up - anchor was great - belay had some potentially dangerous issues.
Chad
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norushnomore
Jul 29, 2004, 8:39 AM
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Why even bother bringing gri-gri on a trad climb?
That thing is heavy! And evil!
Belaying of the anchor is evil too.
Avoid both and you will be forgiven oval biners and non-lockers at that ;-)
Little bit of slack and a fall on a top rope can gen forces similar to those on a lead (1500lbs in the latest mag test). Most likely you don't have the angle perfect and all that force will go onto a single piece.
It will be pressed against the rock and biner gate might open.
Open oval is very weak: 7Kn or 1400lbs, it will break!
One by one all points might break! It is very likely that you will knock that third guy down as well. All three of you are doomed!
It is a pure luck that you are still with us
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curt
Jul 29, 2004, 8:47 AM
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Please post this same topic at analretentiveclimbers.com where you may gain some additional valuable feedback.
Curt
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sync
Jul 29, 2004, 11:37 AM
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In reply to: In reply to: wouldn't be knocked off the apparent 500-foot high ledge heh...if only Devil's Lake had something half that.... Us midwesterners gotta take what we get.
Actually he was pretty close, the top of the bluffs are about 400 feet above the Lake. It's just that the base of the climb is only about 50 feet down.
:P
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billcoe_
Jul 31, 2004, 4:32 AM
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I misssed the Grigri orientation. Looks like JT is right.
It is common knowledge around these parts not to argue with JT.
Sorry, but that's the truth.
http://www.petzl.com/petzl/SportProduits?MotRecherche=Quick+Search&pays=0&Langue=en&Activite=0&Famille=9&SousFamille=74&Produit=203&Conseil=&ProduitAssocie=
They drew a picture of a skull and crossbones when the grigri was not oriented correctly. What would that tell you normally?
Again, anchor is fine by me. I usually just clip my climbing rope directly into the anchors - just a small note of personal preferance.
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musicman
Jul 31, 2004, 6:29 AM
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don't you guys notice anything!! j/k, the only thing i picked up one (maybe, but really doesn't matter) was that the draw on the nut was backwards, bent gate on the nut and straight gate on the rope end! j/k, seriously though, don't bash people for no true reasons, i love all these anchor posts, i learn alot more out of them then when people just bash on each other.
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climbfrog
Jul 31, 2004, 8:54 AM
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I would've felt better using hexes and tri-cams instead of the slcd's. But if all you had where the cams, use them! I would've. Besides, if you say that you places them above a constriction thats great. I've had many many cams skate on me in that rock at DL! I've lead Brintons Crack lots of times and know that you can set a bomber anchor at the top there. It's just really slick inside those cracks at the top, as well the bottom. People have already stated the obvious with the gri-gri
The anchor looks bomber to me though. My concern is, how are you anchored in to that system? And whats with the guy standing in the pic? A bit close to te edge eh? Hope his balance doesnt get thrown off.
HEY EURO!!! Do yourself a favor and pic up those tri-cams like you said you would in the other DL post! You guys wear helmets there?
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climbfrog
Jul 31, 2004, 9:03 AM
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Not too many people actually lead at DL. It's good to see you do. But I have to say, I've belayed directly off the anchor with a gri-gri with the handle facing the rock. What if the climber falls? How easy will it be to just simply lower the climber if you need to? It's a pain in the ass to lower a climber off of a gri-gri when the handle is facing the rock with all the climbers weight on it. Gri-gris are taken too lightly as fool proof. And as far as calling this the gri-gri patrol, you gave permission to have the pics posted and criticized and thats whats happening. IF you dont like it, just don't post another pic on here. It's for people to learn, you should learn from it.
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curtis_g
Jan 14, 2006, 3:49 AM
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In reply to: So what is this? A post for you guys to pat yourselves on the back because you know how to set an anchor? Hummm...nice work...good job...looks bomber...you guys rock...
well I thought that was freakin' hilarious.
serriously, if it WASN'T a good anchor, or if yu WEREN'T EVEN SURE, then why were you climbing on it. You guys should know it's a good anchor or stick to girth hitching trees and chocks.
IF YOU DON'T KNOW IF YOU PLACED A GOOD ENOUGH ANCHOR... DON'T CLIMB BY YOURSELF.
...you're just gunna be the next evening news headline that makes climbers look reckless.
but that's nothing against free soloing. that's just hardcore and everyone knows it...
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corpse
Jan 14, 2006, 4:04 AM
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I pat you on the back for resurrecting a thread that is a year and a half old.
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euroford
Jan 14, 2006, 4:30 AM
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LOL, wow i'm honored to have my stoopid anchor thread brought back from the grave. that photo wasn't from last year, but from the year before!
wow, but i sure do have nice legs don't i?
for what its worth, a long long long time ago i stumbled upon the magic of autoblocking devices and now leave the grigri at home.
unless of course i'm going aid climbing, in which case its nice so my partner can take a nap while i'm on lead.
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curtis_g
Jan 14, 2006, 6:45 AM
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In reply to: I pat you on the back for resurrecting a thread that is a year and a half old.
well, I certainly feel accomplished. 8^)
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billcoe_
Jan 16, 2006, 12:11 AM
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In reply to: LOL, wow i'm honored to have my stoopid anchor thread brought back from the grave. that photo wasn't from last year, but from the year before! wow, but i sure do have nice legs don't i? for what its worth, a long long long time ago i stumbled upon the magic of autoblocking devices and now leave the grigri at home. unless of course I'm going aid climbing, in which case its nice so my partner can take a nap while I'm on lead.
It's the quality of the pic that is worth reproducing I'm sure.
I still don't own a GriGri, but I could see it being real good to near mandatory for hard aid-hard walls.
There was an interesting failure since you posted where (it is surmised) that a rock got inside the gri gri and separated the rope.
Furthermore the etymology of the word Gri-Gri is shocking and it's right here. http://www.rockclimbing.com/topic/97548
bill
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corpse
Jan 16, 2006, 1:22 AM
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billcoe - I know the accident you are referring too.. And although it's a very real concern - you are FAARR more likely to die because you bomber cam placement failed, then to have a rock get in your grigri and cut the rope. That said, my grigri is in my climbing pack, and I haven't taken it out in over a year... Despite the facts - I still feel better with an experienced belayer belaying me with an ATC..
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natrajk
Jan 16, 2006, 2:03 AM
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Hey Euroford!
Just remember that it is equally dangerous if the rock interferes with a autoblocking device such as the B-52. It might prevent the device from blocking (this is described in the manual).
I guess you already knew this, but anyway... :)
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