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toejam
Sep 5, 2004, 10:42 PM
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In Outside Magazine, where you can get a free knife with with your subscription.
He's pushing his book, Between a Rock and a Hard Place which made me groan, but the article's a good read.
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crimpergirl
Sep 5, 2004, 10:59 PM
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I just finished the book this morning. It is an interesting read and has several photos including one of his amputated arm still stuck behind the boulder. He documented the ordeal well! The only criticism I have is that I was not interested in a lot of the stories that were unrelated to the actual incident. Others may find those stories add value to the book however. It's worth a read. Enjoy
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catra
Sep 5, 2004, 11:07 PM
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This has nothing to do with the book...But I was at the Leadville 100 mile trail race pacing, a few weeks ago.....And to my suprise, there was Aron Ralston running the 100 mile race.... I was even amazed to find out that was his first Ultra race....
I was even lucky enough to watch him finish and got a couple good pics of him crossing the finish line with his Mom...
What an amazing person he is...
Catra Corbett
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nut_tool
Sep 6, 2004, 6:05 PM
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greg8941
Sep 14, 2004, 3:10 PM
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I saw a special on TV about him and that is quite a story. It is amazing what the human body can go through. Another story about surviving under unprecedented circumstances is Touchung the Void.
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tradmanclimbs
Sep 14, 2004, 3:25 PM
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Aron seems to have a much more positive outlook on life than either one of those dour Britts from touching the void.
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crimpandgo
Sep 14, 2004, 3:36 PM
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Quote:
Aron seems to have a much more positive outlook on life than either one of those dour Britts from touching the void.
Response:
Not sure i understand this statement. Near death situations affect everyone differently and the situations happened at completely different times. The folks from touching the void were not being hammered by the press for the rights to the story once they got off the mountain. $$$$ signs tend to give you a much more positive outlook to everything I Think. Plus the one guy had to deal with the grief of being responsible for his friend. The is a heavier burden in my opinion than dealing with/being responsible for you own situation. He spent years trying to come to terms with it. That puts a pretty grim outlook on ones happy days I would say...
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flamer
Sep 14, 2004, 3:49 PM
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With all respect deserved for cutting his arm off....
I've been hearing some stuff about the guy lately...from people who know and climb with him.
He sounds like a real idiot, from what I've heard it was only a matter of time before something bad happened too him. He has been know to ski avalanche prone slops in very bad condition's(knowingly), put his climbing partners at risk because he doesn't know when to quit and lie about all of it....
But he did cut his own arm off....
josh
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tradmanclimbs
Sep 14, 2004, 3:50 PM
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whatever the circumstances may be. Arron seems to be cheerfull and uplifting while Jo and simon come accross as Cyinical bitter old farts. Simon stated pretty bluntly that the only reason that he was involved in the movie was to make a buck and Joe just seemed generaly pissed off?
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crimpandgo
Sep 14, 2004, 3:56 PM
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being involved with a movie and being happy in their current lives are not the same thing. Being part of the movie brings back lots of memories. I got the impression they were moving on and enjoying their climbing again... That sounded pretty upbeat to me. Aaron just presents a better TV presence which is how we judge people nowadays :cry: not by what kind of people they truely are.
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mjroche
Sep 14, 2004, 4:12 PM
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I have to agree with both lines of this thread. The guy's will, and positive outlook since his ordeal, are both impressive and admirable. But, by all accounts, it sounds like he was in many respects an accident waiting to happen. A lot like that kid in Krakauer's book who managed to starve to death in the abandoned schoolbus outside Fairbanks. Enthusiasm for wild places and experiences is great, but it has to be tempered by judgment.
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sandbag
Sep 14, 2004, 4:26 PM
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In reply to: With all respect deserved for cutting his arm off.... I've been hearing some stuff about the guy lately...from people who know and climb with him. He sounds like a real idiot, from what I've heard it was only a matter of time before something bad happened too him. He has been know to ski avalanche prone slops in very bad condition's(knowingly), put his climbing partners at risk because he doesn't know when to quit and lie about all of it.... But he did cut his own arm off.... josh
AMEN! Im glad someone else has done the research too. It seems hes had AMAZING luck with not dying when not taking necessary precautions. Hes got huge props for cutting his arm off, but then again... Here in Denver, A guy was pinned face down about 12 years ago up around St. Marys Glacier, and he barely made the 10oclock news when he cut off his own leg(BTK) and drove himself to the hospital......Media and TV are really hard up for entertainment now i guess. :roll:
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dwaicj379
Sep 14, 2004, 4:30 PM
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i watched the two hour special on dateline and it was awesome. (very well done)...it is definately worth watching, so look for a re-run or try to find someone who taped it. i did.
also, touching the void was an incredible movie. i rented it hoping to see some wicked climbing, but instead found a very powerful and dramatic story of survival. everyone should have it in their library.
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kailas
Sep 18, 2004, 2:17 PM
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That guy who cut his leg off was an orthopedic surgeon, who was trapped by a large boulder. He cut his leg off and crawled back to civilization, his problem was he did not have a video camera to record his ordeal, and that doesn't lend itself to TV overexpsure like Aron's story.
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kap
Sep 18, 2004, 2:48 PM
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My beef with Aron R. is that he's so nakedly cashing in. Shortly after the accident I happened to see him on Letterman. He seemed like a nice guy who had gotten in a bad situation and made the best of it . . . and he seemed like he had a lot of integrity about the whole media swirl. I distinctly remember him talking about the video he made while his arm was pinned and saying that he would never let anyone outside of his family see it. And that really impressed me -- it was something very private and despite the obvious market for it, he was going to keep it private. I understand that video was featured prominently in the recent TV special he did promoting his book.
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dwaicj379
Sep 18, 2004, 3:56 PM
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I somewhat agree that he is cashing in. But in the TV special they showed very little of the video. Actually it was pretty much the same clip shown about 5 times. At some point he said he wouldnt show any more of the video because it was too painful and disturbing (his facial expression and physical condition). So I'm not sure how much he let the producers watch or what the story is there. But only a very small portion was released on TV. But yes, you are right, he is cashing in. I probably would too, would you?
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prufrock
Sep 18, 2004, 7:19 PM
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kap: he still isn't letting anyone see the video. He is only allowing NBC to play sections of the audio (well, there might have been a 5 second clip from the very beginning).
Ralston may be an accident waiting to happen -- I don't know him. But what happened to him in Blue John canyon was just horribly bad luck. Sure, he didn't tell anyone where he was going, but that is easy to forget. Especially when he thought he was just going hiking and car camping.
Of course he is cashing in. So what? He lost his arm. Why not make something positive out of it if he can?
As for those dour Brits in Touching the Void: hogwash! Firstly, the situation that Simon and Joe ended up in was orders of magnitude worse. Aside from that, it ruined one of the guys lives, as the whole climbing community decided he was a bastard for cutting the rope.
The only upbeat thing about Ralston is that it is obvious he is religious and he turned his accident into a religious experience. Joe and Simon were simply realists.
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coldclimb
Sep 18, 2004, 7:26 PM
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Heck, if I were him I'd milk this event for all the cash I possibly could. What amazes me is how much the public soaks it all in with oohs and ahs. Yeah the guy cut off his arm, but like he himself said, he just did what he had to do. Now he's a national hero because of the reaction he gets from the public. Way to go for him if he plays his cards for cash. I would too.
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Sep 18, 2004, 7:56 PM
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i read this crappy book and came away from it with the conclusion that aaron ralston has a lot of growing up to do.
the whole book is centered around him trying to convince you that "he really is badass" despite the fact that he totally screwed up and had to chop his arm off. I don't find his descriptions of these so-called "epic" hikes/bikes and whatever other contrived adventure he forced himself into to be at all interesting. I know people who knew him before he was famous, and they all agreed that he was always putting himself in bad situation and, in typical colorado tradition, coming back to spray about it. but it was like, dude, why did you go into avalanche terrain if you knew it was avalanche terrain, and then get in an avalance? is it just so you can come tell us about the avalanche you got in? yes, it is, and that makes you lame.
in ten years, when all the attention around him is gone, he's going to come to certain heartbreaking realizations about what it means to have lost an arm and to how he's sensationalized that for his own gain (not that I blame him--my point is simply the book is premature; he doesn't "get it" yet and that's obvious from the book)
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prufrock
Sep 18, 2004, 8:13 PM
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mandrew, I can see that.
Throughout the NBC documentary on Ralston, they kept trying to paint him as a crazy, extreme badass. Yet the only thing they could come up with was he was caught in an avalanche on an extreme avalanche day (wow), that he climbed 14ers in winter (Ok, alpinist, but that ain't that extreme; I've done it), and that he went hiking alone (whoa, slow down badass!).
It was obvious to me he was just an outdoor enthusiast and extreme guy wannabe with bad luck and some questionable decision making skills.
Which is not to say I didn't appreciate the gripping NBC account of his survival. Rather, it could have happened to anybody, it wasn't a unique property of Ralston.
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chads93gt
Sep 18, 2004, 8:27 PM
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I remember this guy. I think. Isnt that the guy who went climbing. . . .hiking. . .. whatever. Fell, got his arm pinned inbetween 2 rocks for a few days, and ended up sawing his arm off with a knife or soemthing dull.
supposed to be MR. Outdoors, but he forgot the most important thing when going out into the wilderness by yourself. . . . .LEAVE A NOTE TELLING SOMEONE WHERE YOU ARE AND WHEN YOU ARE EXPECTED TO RETURN.
If he had done that. He would still have 2 arms today.
This is provided this is the same guy I am thinking of.
If it is. he's nothing but a moron.
Thats the first thing I learned in any back country situation, besides the 10 essentials, always leave a note telling someone where you are going and when you are exptected to return.
What a tard.
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picaco
Sep 18, 2004, 9:36 PM
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In reply to: If he had done that. He would still have 2 arms today.
I'm not sure about that, did you hear how they had to remove the boulder, plus with blood loss to his hand and how badly his arm would have been mangled, I doubt they would have saved it. Probably would have chopped it off at the hospital.
Ben
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renobdarb
Sep 18, 2004, 9:57 PM
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It might be worth noting that all the people sitting around typing smack about Ralston probably are doing so with two arms...
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rockitjeff
Sep 18, 2004, 11:00 PM
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2 thoughts boys and girls..
the guy just ran the leadville 100?
thats on par with doing.. i dunno.. the Nose, maybe?
running a 100 aint easy. i never have ,tho i paced a few.
so props, aron
plus? we're the brutha/sistahood of topography here. give more credit to a kindred soul; slander the real ememy. there's lots of 'em out there
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edge
Sep 19, 2004, 12:08 AM
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In reply to: Way to go for him if he plays his cards for cash. I would too.
See, I wouldn't.
The guy did what he had to do to live. It was a life or death situation, and mad props to him for having the cajones to choose to live, regardless of the pain. However, the public fascination with this story has reached epidemic proportions. I remember loggers being faced with the same fate and doing the same thing to their arms, but the story faded after the initial telling. Why? Because they let it.
I agree with Mandrew about this one. Do I have both arms??? Yes, I do. However I am personally missing a finger, and despite legal council to seek blame, I never blamed anyone else for it or sought any attention from the incident.
The man could have run the Leadville before the incident. Missing an arm has nothing to do with the equation.
And anyone who thinks that leaving an itinerary would have saved his arm desperately needs to take some sort of first aid course. The arm was toast from the git-go.
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flamer
Sep 19, 2004, 1:26 AM
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In reply to: putting himself in bad situation and, in typical colorado tradition, coming back to spray about it.
You know what?
This is not "typical colorado tradition" this is typical "Look how cool I am" tradition....it happens everywhere....
josh
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timstich
Sep 19, 2004, 7:07 PM
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It's understandable that Aron comes across as a reckless person, because in two instances he clearly was. However, do two reckless acts define forever the person? And Aron's style of discussing his adventures I think leads others to believe he is too flippant about it. However, you should think about his ordeal in that slot canyon. The guy had DAYS to beat himself up for being a dumbass, and he did this. He went through many very desperate hours shivering in the dark, unable to sleep.
Do you think writing a book about that experience can really glorify it? I sure as hell don't. No matter how Aron tries to paint that experience as a positive one for himself, I don't view it that way. But how I view that experience is from the outside, which is where I would want to be on the end of that. I've had enough bad sh*t like that in my life and one guy's book about his bad sh*t written in a happy inner voice doesn't bother me. I doubt I'll read the book, incidentally. I'm getting a little fatigued with this genre of writing, personally. Read too many epics.
Perhaps Aron would have won more friends in the skeptical climbing community by downplaying things instead of doing the whole media book tour. Eh, what can you say? You can't be all things to everyone. Like him or not, Aron is a pretty impressive individual. As to wheter or not Aron "gets it" only he knows. You can project what you want on the guy.
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timstich
Sep 19, 2004, 7:10 PM
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In reply to: In reply to: putting himself in bad situation and, in typical colorado tradition, coming back to spray about it. You know what? This is not "typical colorado tradition" this is typical "Look how cool I am" tradition....it happens everywhere.... josh
That's such a typical Colorado thing to say. Oh no. I live there now. Dang. Well, shooot. Guess I got to be beatin' up on a new state now. Anyone want to disparage Californicators now? Dang, iffin that aint a California thing to say.
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timstich
Sep 19, 2004, 7:13 PM
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In reply to: I just finished the book this morning. It is an interesting read and has several photos including one of his amputated arm still stuck behind the boulder. He documented the ordeal well! The only criticism I have is that I was not interested in a lot of the stories that were unrelated to the actual incident. Others may find those stories add value to the book however. It's worth a read. Enjoy
Joe Simpson's book "This Game of Ghosts" is written like that as well. You can just skip the stories that don't interest you. But in that book as well, I grew tired of the tales of his Greenpeace days and how he was approached to be an author. Keep to the stories about guys doing ski jumps in laundry hampers, Joe.
As for Aron's book, I don't think he could have dragged out that particular incident beyond 50 pages, do you? Maybe he could have mentioned some close calls while soloing the 14ers or mentioned what other climbing friends were doing like Joe Simpson does. I like reading about the experiences of people who aren't such loners. Their interactions with partners are what usually make the events more interesting, not how they rationalize stuff in their heads.
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timstich
Sep 19, 2004, 7:21 PM
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In reply to: Heck, if I were him I'd milk this event for all the cash I possibly could.
And why not? The events only concerned him. If they involved the death of someone else, however, then there are other concerns. But if it's your own dumb reputation, why not?
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flamer
Sep 19, 2004, 9:53 PM
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In reply to: because in two instances he clearly was.
I know several people who climbed with him(as in they used too, but WON'T anymore!) Trust me it was more than 2 times.
josh
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Sep 19, 2004, 10:43 PM
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I think it's interesting to mention joe simpson in this post:
touching the void is one of the most insightful books ever written as it sheds light on the absolute extreme, most awful ends a human psyche can be pushed towards via excruciating pain and deprivation. while ralstons experience was undeniably awful, his book in no way compares to the insight of simpson. Simpson waited years and years after his accident before he was compelled to make some sense of it. Ralston is a self-promoting sensationalist, who has cashed in on the media (and from what i understand, he did this very same thing before hand by spraying people down about all his so-called close calls and contrived epics: in a sick way, ralston got what he's always wanted). In no way do i wish anyone to have gone through what ralston went through, but my point is that it is absurd to mention simpson in this thread--the disparity between the two men's experience is astronomical, as evinced in their writing: one book is trite and self-promoting, while the other is a treasure of humanity.
yeah, i know i sound like an a-hole, but so what? this is anonymous internet spew.
speaking of that, everytime i try to post more than one post, I get "tarpitted" and can't post for more than a day. what the hell does that mean? i'm not sorry to "hijack" the thread, or whatever, so don't bother telling me about that, either.
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grayhghost
Sep 19, 2004, 11:13 PM
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from all accounts he was LUCKY
to have lived long enough to cut
his own arm off
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musicman
Sep 20, 2004, 12:41 AM
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wow, this is quite the heated thread, i just finished the book about an hour ago and was planning on posting something...but alas, someone beat me to it. anyways, all of you that are bashing him, i think some of the things being said are very uneducate things to be saying, but others make decent points. i most definetly agree that he did screw up the most important thing in doing anything solo, leaving a detailed itinerary. although, this would still have left him armless. that rock will be there until either a) someone hauls a jackhammer down there and hammers it out, or b) his arm/hand decays and decomposes enough that the rock will slide to the floor. i think it was qutie a story of survival, mental and physical. apparently he was going into these weird trances/dreams/visions, pretty cool in a way. no matter what you think of him as a person, you have to realize what a story that it was, and then ask yourself if you would've handled it any better than he did if you were stuck under a rock.
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timstich
Sep 20, 2004, 2:23 AM
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In reply to: In reply to: because in two instances he clearly was. I know several people who climbed with him(as in they used too, but WON'T anymore!) Trust me it was more than 2 times. josh
Well, I kind of suspected. Like I said, he should have mentioned how other people judged his climbing skills. Joe Simpson is pretty candid about his shortcomings in his books, not the least of which was his impatience.
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timstich
Sep 20, 2004, 2:31 AM
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In reply to: speaking of that, everytime i try to post more than one post, I get "tarpitted" and can't post for more than a day. what the hell does that mean? i'm not sorry to "hijack" the thread, or whatever, so don't bother telling me about that, either.
I find your posts pretty refreshing, actually, although I don't feel the same as you do. Joe Simpson was colosally stupid as well and he says as much. But I'll bet you are right that he is the superior writer. I thought he was a good interview subject as well.
So does mandrew really need to be tarpitted everyone? Is his harsh judgement so taboo? Say it aint so, Joe.
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brianinslc
Sep 20, 2004, 9:14 PM
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In reply to: mandrew, I can see that.
Good points, too. I'll be curious to read the book. The Dateline special was pretty captivating.
In reply to: Throughout the NBC documentary on Ralston, they kept trying to paint him as a crazy, extreme badass.
I thought just the opposite. They tried to tone that down. Case in point, when Brokaw asked his parents if they thought, when he was over due, if he "was lost". They said no way, he knew what he was doing. Ditto the questions on his soloing and NBC giving him time to explain his reasoning for soloing.
In reply to: It was obvious to me he was just an outdoor enthusiast and extreme guy wannabe with bad luck and some questionable decision making skills.
Bad luck with the rock moving and bad choice to not let folks know where he was heading (which he totally admits, "dumb dumb dumb" or the like, over and over). Other than that, kept it together pretty well.
In reply to: Which is not to say I didn't appreciate the gripping NBC account of his survival. Rather, it could have happened to anybody, it wasn't a unique property of Ralston.
The gettin' stuck situation could happen to anyone. How he handled it, maybe not (hope I never find out!). One thing the Dateline show impressed on me was just how difficult his ordeal really was. And, really, I think Brokaw, givin' his experience with some climbing, etc, was the only major newscaster able to pull it off.
Aaron cashin' in on the deal? Heck, we all are, for the better. Bring on the books and a lecture tour. He's inspiring on a bunch of levels. For handicap folks, and, interestingly, for folks thinking about suicide. Strike whilst the iron is hot. I'm glad he chose to share, whatever the motivation.
Touching the Void is awesome, both the book and the movie. Aaron's movie will probably be the Dateline special. I hope his book turns out well. Simpson found out he could really turn a phrase. I think their situations were pretty similar. Will to live stuff. Then, share the experience at the risk of being called an exploiter.
If Aaron can share his experience and the only benefit I get out of it is mild entertainment, and he makes some cabbage off it, no problemo. Mint those coins and pass 'em around!
Leadville sub 30. Wow.
Book signing this week...can't wait...should be interesting...
-Brian in SLC
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tgreene
Sep 20, 2004, 9:29 PM
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In reply to: In reply to: Heck, if I were him I'd milk this event for all the cash I possibly could. And why not? The events only concerned him. If they involved the death of someone else, however, then there are other concerns. But if it's your own dumb reputation, why not?
Unfortunately, it's the folks like Ralston that "sensationalize" things to the point that eventually someone calls a metting, and invites the lawyers...
We constantly ask ourselves why are more and more public access areas being closed, when in all reality, it's staring us in the face. Aron Ralston has become a media whore overnight, telling the world about his own trials, but not caring enough about the rest of us that will ultimately suffer the end game.
Living in a rural farming community, I honestly can't recount all of the stories I've heard about farmers having to amputate their own limbs that were caught in combines or balers, and they don't hit the 6:00 news either. Hell, they rarely even hit the bottom corner of page 10!
Many of us here have experienced "epics" that nearly cost us life or limb... Some of us on more than once! None of our personal experiences are any greater or less than Ralstons, because we still live with the nightmares and backflashes. These are PERSONAL stories that we'll write about here, to warn others of our own misfortunes, and how to avoid them like the plague.
While I can't speak for others here, I will say that when I was laying in the hospital due to my own stupidity that nearly left me paralyzed, the phone next to my hospital bed was ringing off the hook with reporters wanting to do a "feature" story on my accident. I also had everyone including the doctors themselves suggesting that I hire an attorney,m and go after the climbing industry, "because they have large insurance policies..."
I guess what I'm trying to say here is; when we allow ourselves to be "used" for the glory and entertainment of others, there will always be a price to pay. I refused to tell any of the reporters where I was, or even exactly what happened, because I was afraid of restrictions being imposed in this specific area, had they reported what they really wanted...
Again, we all have our "stories", and none of them are noble to anyone but those around us!
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plund
Sep 20, 2004, 10:02 PM
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Reckless or not, poor decision-maker or not, he sacked up & made an incredibly difficult (physically & mentally) choice & lived to spray about it. If he makes a few bucks (or a boatload) off of it, good on him! Pro athletes make millions for playing games, models make money for winning the genetic lottery. He at least sounds like a very positive & upbeat individual with some interesting stories to tell. Put a smattering of everyday folks (or even climbers) in that situation - I think most would freak, panic & lose everything, not just an arm.
The mental clarity re: the "big picture" is what impresses me -- too bad the post-event decision-making ability wasn't present before the trip, when didn't leave a note...my .02, FWIW.
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tgreene
Sep 20, 2004, 10:03 PM
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I'll also add that much better stories along these same lines, can be read here at RC on a regular basis, in the Injuries and Accidents forum. What sets these apart is, that the postings in I&A are written by our friends and partners, not by a third party. These "stories" involve us, not some media whore that has become the Tool-Of-The-Day.
{edited to remove poor content}
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jcinco
Sep 20, 2004, 10:09 PM
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In reply to: In reply to: because in two instances he clearly was. I know several people who climbed with him(as in they used too, but WON'T anymore!) Trust me it was more than 2 times. josh
Having interacted with Aron socially a handful of times about 4 years ago, I can give my impressions. Most of my encounters were in the context of bouldering at a common friend's home woody.
Based on my experiences, Aron is (was) a positive, smart, and modest guy. At that time, I would even venture to describe him as a modern-day hippy, and attended a Leftover Salmon show with him once. Aron was not much of a rock climber, that was for certain, and his desire for solo trips meant that his technical skills were unpolished. Even then, we knew he was doing out-there solo 14er trips in the winter, but he was not boastful about his experiences and even downplayed their seriousness and difficulty. His modesty was impressive, especially considering how he could've easily compensated for his lack of climbing skills with tales of burly days in the mountains.
My point is that Aron is basically no different than most of the other climbers I've socialized or climbed with over the years. The reason why people are so mesmerized by his story is the fact that he was faced with a choice that people can't imagine, and the realization that, yes, people would probably cut their own arm off in a similar situation. The media bring people this story not beacuse of Aron's supposed self-promotion... it's because that's what people want to see (based on TV ratings and book sales).
I seriously doubt that all of the rightous folks who've posted on this topic would have handeled the resulting media spotlight much differently.
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tradmanclimbs
Sep 20, 2004, 11:20 PM
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T Green, canyon lands will not be closed just because a few people get stuck in slot caynons or fall to their deaths. Heck Turro Weep point on the north rim of the grand caynon averages one falling fatality a year and that place is not closed. The reason that climbing areas get closed is either from Development /private landowners and industry or for enviornmental reasons. The enviromental reasons usualy have to do with poorly maintained or unregulated trail system erosion, human waste and garbage, Vehiculer traffic , partying, fires and over crowding issues. Native american issues etc. The feds don't close backcountry just because some guy gets hurt or lost. if that was the case Yos and Josh would have been closed years ago. I hear the if someone gets hurt it will ruin it for the rest of us garbage all the time. after dealing with the forest circus in trying to maintain access at my local area, I find that they are more worried about Native american issues, enviornmental studies and erosion issues. their liability concerns have way more to do with trail conditions than Technical climbing. they want the trail to the cliff to be handycap accesable but the climbing they don't care about. The thing that would really kill it for everyone would be if some sleazeball relitave of a decesed climber suied the feds for letting their loved one climb :shock:
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plund
Sep 20, 2004, 11:25 PM
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My ignorance of canyoneering is near-total; that is, I know the definition. I'm not certain in what area Aron was hiking (too lazy to look)...is there serious consideration being given to closing the area to all users? If so, is it because of HIS accident specifically? Or, because he's making money off the incident? He didn't go into the area to make money - as a mining company would do.
If his ordeal is the straw breaking the access-camel's back, it is tragic & a loss to all. There's already far too much pandering to the stupidest-common-denominator in the USA.
Yes, the survival instinct is incredibly strong, but keeping it together enough to A) self-amputate B) rig (newly one-handed!) a 70' rappel when shocked, bleeding & dehydrated C) hike another 6 or so miles thru desert is still an incredible feat in my (n00b, ignorant, *insert unkind adjective*) book.
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climbsomething
Sep 20, 2004, 11:38 PM
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In reply to: I beg of you to research the I&A forum to read about "MtnGeo", and his split second, life saving, excrutiatingly painful ordeal that involved having to reclimb to the point where he fell, in order to get the gear that was now well above him, so that he could self rescue in order to avoid death within hours, not days!
In reply to: Hell, what's the difference between Ral$ton and the mining company that is wanting to close Queen Creek/Oak Flat in AZ..? Both involve climbers getting shoved aside for $$$. Is it really oaky when it's supposedly "one of our own"..? :roll:
This thread is full of uneducated, righteous, judgmental garbage, but wow Tim, you managed to carve yourself a niche...
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edge
Sep 20, 2004, 11:48 PM
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In reply to: but wow Tim, you managed to carve yourself a niche...
understatements4lyfe!!!!!!!!!!111
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tgreene
Sep 20, 2004, 11:58 PM
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In reply to: The thing that would really kill it for everyone would be if some sleazeball relitave of a decesed climber suied the feds for letting their loved one climb :shock:
With climbing and other eco-sports gaining popularity like never before, coupled with the newest media-darlings that have life-vs-death stories to sell to a prime time audience that is filled with eager attorneys ready to take on The Man in order to make a name for himself, you're courting disaster. Remember when I said that it was strongly suggested to me back in '93, to find an attorney willing to take on the climbing companies... Had I said "YES!", my financial position could potentially have been very different, yet I would have compromised everything that I believe in, as well as put Black Diamond in a world of hurt, as some POS had already done once before. Also, if you think closures won't happen, I beg to differ, as I was in a State Park, not on Federal land. Due to insurance factors, numerous State Parks around the country have either restricted or closed them to climbing altogether. Indiana has some awesome rock, but it's illegal in each and every State park there.
I've seen this happen to the whitewater and firearms communities as well, and it just plain sucks. To make matters worse, it's generally some fat ass that in a million years wouldn't do the things that we do, but they are all hell bent on making the world a safer place! I remember when seat belts were optional in cars, but Ralph Nadar was there to protect us all... :evil:
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edge
Sep 21, 2004, 12:14 AM
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In reply to: And as for my reference to George, you know the thread I was referencing, and in the context to which it applied!
But do you know the thread Hillary was referencing, and the underlying values and believeability that implied???
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tgreene
Sep 21, 2004, 12:20 AM
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{edited to remove poor content}
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indigo_nite
Sep 21, 2004, 12:24 AM
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saw the dateline (or nightline) special w/ tom brokaw (I think it was brokaw) on ralston's bday (something like 6mo anniversary of the ordeal) a couple weeks ago.
it was not overly macabre (a relief) and seemed rather emotional. I did not think about the $ factor at the time but was surprised why he would want to return to his near grave. he made his descent (which looked not easy w/ all limbs) and rappel w/o assistance/backup, which I thought strange but maybe he wanted to face his boogey man... who knows.
it was interesting to see the story from the point of view of his mom, who was really an unsung hero. the last news story was really about the depth of their bond and was moving to me whatever the news reporter or ralston's motives for the story were.
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flamer
Sep 21, 2004, 1:18 AM
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Deleted....
josh
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tgreene
Sep 21, 2004, 1:22 AM
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Thanks flamer!
Just a few moments ago, I was made fully aware of that situation, and have therefore -DELETED- any references that I have made to George.
-Tim
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flamer
Sep 22, 2004, 1:21 AM
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In reply to: Thanks flamer! Just a few moments ago, I was made fully aware of that situation, and have therefore -DELETED- any references that I have made to George. -Tim
Cool, in an effort to not air a bunch of dirty laundry...and because you deleted....I have also deleted my post.
josh
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wyattwyattwyatt
Oct 5, 2004, 4:14 PM
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i thought it was an interesting book and well written. i'm glad he wrote it.
from the book, one does get the impression that he is quite good at getting himself into very dangerous situations by not thinking things through first -- he skis on avalanche-prone slopes and then gets caught in an avalanche, he jumps into an swift, icy river and nearly drowns, he free solos crumbly cliffs that he has not seen before...
he also does seem to enjoy regaling others with tales of his epics. i thought it was pretty telling that after amputating his arm, while bleeding, he stopped to take a picture of it (later included in his book)!
clearly (especially in retrospect) he should have told people where he was going that day, but i think his decision is a little more understandable than some have made it out to be. he was simply scrambling along a canyon when this happened. i'm sure many of us have gone hiking without telling others where we're going, although its not the smartest thing to do.
one of the things i wonder about is his judgement regarding the actual boulder that trapped him. i had always assumed it was a freak rock fall but it turns out that he noticed the boulder was loose, but then used it to support himself while he climbed over it into the canyon, essentially pulling it down on top of him. obviously, i wasnt there so i'm in no position to judge how good or bad an idea it was; maybe i'd have done the same. anybody else who read the book wonder about that?
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tattooed_climber
Oct 9, 2004, 1:30 AM
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just bought it tonight....hope its as good as all you say it is.....other wise i could have boughten a tri-cam or two nuts or something...
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josephine
Oct 19, 2004, 8:25 AM
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still reading it..so far i think it's a great book with lots lots of details!
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hardrock_chik
Oct 30, 2004, 12:13 PM
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(please move this topic if you feel it is in the wrong place but I wasn't sure where 2 post :oops: )
I just read an article on aron Ralston, some of you may have heard about him. What happened was he was hiking/climbing (not sure) on his own in Colorado and a boulder fell on his arm and trapped him. He was stuck out the a couple of days and eventually broke and amputated his arm.
I hope that no one else will ever have to be in that situation but I was wondering what would you do and if something similar like that has happened?
I didn't think it would be very common but I just want to know some situations people have been in.
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dingus
Oct 30, 2004, 1:37 PM
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I would have eaten it too. Sort of like a scooby snack.
DMT
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edge
Oct 30, 2004, 1:45 PM
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Never heard of him.
Really.
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prest_one
Oct 30, 2004, 2:04 PM
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Im reading his book right now and i havent gotten to the part where it describes the rescue attempt, but i heard that when he cut off his arm the rescue party was really close to where he was. Its weired to say this now knowing what i know but i think i would of lasted it out, i dont think i would have the heart or stomach to cut off my own arm. Who knows though when hunger, thirst and loneliness are eating away at your mind, you might do anything to survive as Aron Ralston proved.
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killclimbz
Oct 30, 2004, 2:08 PM
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Aaron Ralston has basically made a career out of being an idiot. It's a pretty interesting article. It did cost an arm, of course...
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timstich
Oct 30, 2004, 2:15 PM
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In reply to: I would have eaten it too. Sort of like a scooby snack. DMT
"Runnin' around
robbin' banks
all whacked on a
Scooby Snack."
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kevanrobitaille
Nov 6, 2004, 4:59 PM
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In reply to: AMEN! Im glad someone else has done the research too. It seems hes had AMAZING luck with not dying when not taking necessary precautions. Hes got huge props for cutting his arm off, but then again... Here in Denver, A guy was pinned face down about 12 years ago up around St. Marys Glacier, and he barely made the 10oclock news when he cut off his own leg(BTK) and drove himself to the hospital......Media and TV are really hard up for entertainment now i guess. :roll:
That guy is also mentioned in the edition of Outside. It has articles on the top 10 survival stories. The difference was he was only pinned for a few hours, he decided to cut the leg because he knew hed freeze to death at night. The amazing part, was the truck was standard!
I honestly cant see how he could make a whole book out of it. I read the preview article and it was great, it explained right before he was trapped, and while trapped. But a whole book must have a lot of filler in it.
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staggerlee917
Nov 9, 2004, 4:44 AM
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In reply to: the whole book is centered around him trying to convince you that "he really is badass" despite the fact that he totally screwed up and had to chop his arm off. like, dude, why did you go into avalanche terrain if you knew it was avalanche terrain, and then get in an avalance?
for one thing..... he was simply moving past a rock and it fell.... he didn't screw up beyond the fact that he went out alone and didn't tell anyone where he was going, which ALL of us do on occasion.... you can't deny it.
and second...... any slope over 40 degrees can be considered avalanche prone. are all of us backcountry skiers dumb? he is well trained in avalance safety. from cutting pits to using a beacon and probe. not to mention he was on search and rescue and had to deal with this stuff plenty of times before.
I was lucky enough to meet aron at a concert last year and i can honestly tell you that whenever i'm in a tricky situation these days i say to myself "look what aron did, you can get through this"
lets see what happens when fate turns ugly on you.
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nonick
Nov 9, 2004, 5:47 AM
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I find it a bit ridiculous to compare two accidents and try to figure out which of the protaganists is a better person.
People deal differently with accidents. We saw Simon and Joe's reaction on DVD when they visited Suilla Grande after several years - we haven't had that opportunity to witness Aron's reaction.
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tao-buddha
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Nov 15, 2004, 10:34 PM
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Ya know, it's funny, I'm about halfway through this book and so many of you are right. It does seem he's overcompentsating for being such a wreckless twit. He obviously is trying to get across the message of how passionate and driven he is. One of his friends called him on his stuff though, when he replied to one Aron's stories: 'It's not what you do, it's who you are that matters.' It seemed like he took a reflective moment in the canyon to think about the meaning of that. I thought he hit the nail on the head. I'm finding it humorous, though, that every other story is; 'I almost died here', 'I almost died there', 'They're not talking to me anymore because my wrecklessness almost cost them their lives'. He's making bank now, though.
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maculated
Nov 16, 2004, 8:36 AM
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In reply to: So did you hear about this guy who cut off his own arm? Man, if I were that guy, I would be embarrassed. He's not a hero. He's a moron.
Edited to add: maculated's dad's admonitions to maculated: Honey, if you get killed out there, it's your own fault. I'll deal with it. No tragedy there.
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coldclimb
Nov 16, 2004, 8:45 AM
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Heck, all I know is that if I made a mistake like that, I would turn it around and play it out as much as I possibly could too. ;) Can't blame the guy one bit.
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happiegrrrl
Nov 16, 2004, 12:33 PM
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I found the following exerp from his book interesting. It was pointed out in the interview I mentioned earlier on Gunks.com.
In reply to: Over the course of the winter, I learned about the concept of deep play, wherein a person's recreational pursuits carry a gross imbalance of risk and reward. Without the potential for any real or perceived external gain--fortune, glory, fame--a person puts himself into scenarios of real risk and consequence purely for internal benefit: fun and enlightenment. Deep play exactly described my winter solo fourteener project, especially when I would begin a climb by heading into a storm, accepting malevolent weather as part of my experience on that trip. Suffering, cold nausea, exhaustion, hunger--none of it meant anything, it was all part of the experience. The same went for the joy euphoria, achievement, and fulfillment, too. I found that I could not set out with the intent of having a particular experience--safety precautions and risk management aside--my goal instead was to be open to what that day was giving me and accept it. Expectations generally led to disappointment, but being open to whatever was there for me to discover led to awareness and delight, even when conditions were rough. Mark Twight, an American alpinist with an extraordinary history of success and misadventure at the most extreme level of mountaineering, wrote in a climbing essay, "It doesn't have to be fun to be fun." Precisely.
If I am correct, deep play is actually where the rewrd cannot possibly be greater that the gamble taken, but.... anyway.
If this is Mr. Ralston's philosophy, then so be it. Now that he's discovered such an "intriguing" part of his person, I think it is really important that he be upfront about it with anyone he chooses he chooses to play these risky games with. Not everyone is interested in unlimited stakes. If he isn't clear on it, then he's....well, he's a f'ed up guy.
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tgreene
Nov 16, 2004, 12:46 PM
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In reply to: Over the course of the winter, I learned about the concept of deep play, wherein a person's recreational pursuits carry a gross imbalance of risk and reward. Without the potential for any real or perceived external gain--fortune, glory, fame--a person puts himself into scenarios of real risk and consequence purely for internal benefit: fun and enlightenment.
If he actually had any regard for what he actually says, we would have never heard about him in the first place! :evil:
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kailas
Nov 29, 2004, 2:16 PM
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The guy is from Ohio! It's typical city slicker to spray all over the net about how cool you are and what you've done. Climbing 14ers aint that big a deal, most are just hard hikes. Go climb all the peaks around Mt. Blanc then you've got something to talk about. The guys a typical A-type personality, whos a wanna-be extremo bro-bra. What ever happened to that doctor who cut his leg off near George town then crawled for help, where's his book, and T.V. appearences? :roll:
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sportclmbr84
Dec 18, 2004, 8:54 PM
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I just got his book and is wonderful! I was trying to search for a site to read more about him and other info, can anyone help me as to tell me any sites I can check out or where to search? Thanks!
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jbell2355
Dec 18, 2004, 9:11 PM
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I don't know Aron, so I can't really pass judgement, but everything I've read/seen about him indicates that he was an accident waiting to happen (that's a euphemism for really stupid). I find it sad and ironic that he is profiting from making a lot of bad decisions that resulted in him hacking his arm off.
That being said, I respect his current attempt to solo every 14'er in CO in the Winter. That would be quite an accomplishment.
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hikerken
Dec 26, 2004, 6:34 AM
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In reply to: Aron seems to have a much more positive outlook on life than either one of those dour Britts from touching the void.
I would caution that there is a tendency to see things in the media, and think that truly represents the situation.
I have real problems with the comparison. One thing to think about.....the "Touching" accident occured in 1985..........nearly TWENTY years ago. One may want to revisit Aron in 19 years, after his life has been defined for that period of time by the accident, and see if he is a little dour, by that time.
As for cashing in, why on earth would one relive such a thing after all that time, except to make money?? What is wrong about that?
I must say that I had the opportunity to meet Simpson, and a friend of mine is mentioned in the forward of his last book. I have found him, in person, to be a remarkably thoughtful fellow, incredibly open, and really quite friendly. Also quite self-depreciating. He would be the first to say the things about himself, that you some of you guys are saying about Aron.
I found him answering questions directly, without misdirction.
By the way, I'd strongly recommend his other books, and the book that Simon Yates wrote. All good.
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moondog
Dec 26, 2004, 7:24 AM
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In reply to: for one thing..... he was simply moving past a rock and it fell
Not exactly...he actually weighted (hung from) the rock and caused it to fall (onto himself). This was his critical mistake as this section is climbable w/o touching chockstones (up or down). Read the excerpt from his book on Outside mag's website. Two details stand out: the canyon is narrow where the accident occurred (i.e. chimneyable), and he knew the chockstone was unstable before he decided to hang from it. Had he not made this one mistake (dc'g an unstable chockstone), this accident would not have occurred. The other mistakes were basically decoy fodder for moralists. Had he not made these more routine errors and gotten a rapid rescue, he wouldn't be the man he is today.
'course the guy more than redeemed himself by surviving. Got nothing but respect for what he did to get himself out of there. Doubt I could do it and hope to avoid the test.
In reply to: .... he didn't screw up beyond the fact that he went out alone and didn't tell anyone where he was going, which ALL of us do on occasion.... you can't deny it.
As mentioned above, these mistakes were routine - which you (inadvertently?) acknowledged above.
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gravityh
Dec 27, 2004, 1:37 AM
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If you look at Aron's web site ( www.aralston.com)you will find a gross inaccuarcy. I sent this note to his webmaster:
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Dearest webmaster of the Aron Ralston web site, you have taken your creative license too far and in my view diminished the reality of Aron's experience. Your home page shows his left arm stuck in the rock. Your copy says his right arm is crushed. The cover of his book clearly shows the right arm was the one cut off.
To have your web site design overshadow the reality of the experience is bad business and down right irresponsible.
I expect you will not forward this on to Aron and further embarrass yourself. Maybe next time you will think twice about creative license.
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Just got the book and yet to draw an opinion. More later..
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dief
Dec 27, 2004, 1:47 AM
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Registered: Jan 21, 2004
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It wasn't "creative license" - they just got the photo reversed. This photo - corrected orientated - is in his book.
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climbsomething
Dec 27, 2004, 4:43 AM
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Registered: May 30, 2002
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In reply to: If you look at Aron's web site ( www.aralston.com)you will find a gross inaccuarcy. I sent this note to his webmaster: ------------ Dearest webmaster of the Aron Ralston web site, you have taken your creative license too far and in my view diminished the reality of Aron's experience. Your home page shows his left arm stuck in the rock. Your copy says his right arm is crushed. The cover of his book clearly shows the right arm was the one cut off. To have your web site design overshadow the reality of the experience is bad business and down right irresponsible. I expect you will not forward this on to Aron and further embarrass yourself. Maybe next time you will think twice about creative license. ------------- Just got the book and yet to draw an opinion. More later.. |
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celtic4
Jan 18, 2005, 3:26 AM
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Registered: Jan 18, 2005
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I'm an 8th grade teacher soon to start a unit on survival. Does anyone know where I could get a copy of the Dateline video Aron Ralston was in? I'd like to use some clips here & there in my class. Thanks.
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pyrodude
Apr 28, 2005, 3:56 PM
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Registered: Aug 17, 2003
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I finished the book about a month ago. and i am so impressed by the courage and all in cutting, then breaking his arm off, and then walking back.
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cwinter
Apr 28, 2005, 4:22 PM
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Registered: Apr 26, 2005
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Uggh, I haven't read the book and don't know much about Ralston, but the quote of Twight makes me seriously cringe. Climbing the 14ers in Winter is admirable but doesn't raise to the level of comparisons with Twight and comes across more as blowing his own horn than anything else. Seems a bit too self-important to me and makes me feel uncomfortable just reading it.
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