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REAL
Aug 25, 2009, 8:38 AM
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What do you recommend for ensuring your bolt side is always your bolt side when you have draws like the Metolious Infernos, or similar, with the same biner, same colour, on both ends? Is Tape on one spine ok? Other suggestions please?
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granite_grrl
Aug 25, 2009, 11:15 AM
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REAL wrote: What do you recommend for ensuring your bolt side is always your bolt side when you have draws like the Metolious Infernos, or similar, with the same biner, same colour, on both ends? Is Tape on one spine ok? Other suggestions please?
I don't really understand why people get two wiregates on a quickdraw in the first place though. IMO the notchless nose option on a number of solid gates is far superior.
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joeforte
Aug 25, 2009, 11:23 AM
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I like to use notchless wiregates on both ends (WC helium), and my rope end biner is red. The bolt side is silver. For my trad draws, I use superflys, and the rope side is marked with a band of red tape. Red=rope.
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Gmburns2000
Aug 25, 2009, 2:06 PM
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Just a question to throw out there, but isn't there a method of clipping bolts where one clips the loose end of the draw to the bolt and the stiched end of the draw to the rope? (or vice-versa: sorry, been a while since I looked at my sport draws, but stitched ).
I noticed that all my sports draws were set up that way: such that the wire gate, red biner, or bent gate (the obvious rope gate) was always on the same side of the draw.
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Carnage
Aug 25, 2009, 3:45 PM
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like gmburns was saying, usually the slings are asymetrical. If i remember correctly, the infernos have a rubber thing to hold one biner in place correct? this rubber side is the rope side.
once you start using them a bit... the one with the notches in it is the bolt side, and the one with the anodization worn off is the rope side.
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bill413
Aug 27, 2009, 12:18 AM
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If the sling is assymmetrical, you should clip the biner that is more free to move to the bolt, the biner that is more constrained to the draw to the rope (as already mentioned). If the sling is symmetrical, and the biners indistinguishable, there are two possibilities:
1) One biner is roughed up from having been fallen on while on a bolt. Clip this one to bolts, the smooth biner to the rope (see below).
2) Neither biner shows signs of scratching, burrs, etc. It doesn't matter which you clip.
For case (1) above - with symmetrical biners, it doesn't matter which is clipped to the rope UNLESS one has been gouged up on a bolt such that it might damage the rope. Since, in this case (and in the assymmetrical case) you know which biner you want to clip to the bolt & which to the rope, rack them so you do that. In my case, the bolt end biner is clipped to my harness, when I clip, the end that was on the harness goes to the bolt.
If you can't distinguish which biner is which - it doesn't matter which one clips to the bolt.
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jakedatc
Aug 27, 2009, 12:21 AM
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Shouldn't be using wiregates for the bolt side anyway.. problem solved.
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billcoe_
Aug 27, 2009, 3:53 AM
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jakedatc wrote: Shouldn't be using wiregates for the bolt side anyway.. .
Why is this?
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jakedatc
Aug 27, 2009, 4:24 AM
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billcoe_ wrote: jakedatc wrote: Shouldn't be using wiregates for the bolt side anyway.. . Why is this?
Because the off chance that the gate snags on the bolt head is one i'm not going to take. plus i use all keylock noses for my top biner for ease of clipping and cleaning on steep routes. (haven't seen a keylock wiregate that wasnt like 10 bucks and still didn't suck)
Also JT512 says so
http://www.climerware.com/unclip.shtml
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jt512
Aug 27, 2009, 5:05 AM
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jakedatc wrote: billcoe_ wrote: jakedatc wrote: Shouldn't be using wiregates for the bolt side anyway.. . Why is this? Because the off chance that the gate snags on the bolt head is one i'm not going to take. plus i use all keylock noses for my top biner for ease of clipping and cleaning on steep routes. (haven't seen a keylock wiregate that wasnt like 10 bucks and still didn't suck) Also JT512 says so
Such a simple concept, yet so few have understood.
Jay
(This post was edited by jt512 on Aug 27, 2009, 5:06 AM)
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REAL
Aug 27, 2009, 5:15 AM
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The picture's worth a thousand words. Thanks for that link, I've seen numerous examples as to back clipping and z-clipping and various things to cause unclipping, but that's the first time i saw the wire gate getting hung up on the bolt-head.. scarry.
As for my original question and my personal draws, yes most of them are asymetrical and I realized that after playing with them more that night, like a hit to the head that said wake up dumbass... wish i could take back that post.
Still though, glad to hear the other suggestions too.
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USnavy
Aug 27, 2009, 7:27 AM
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Facing the gate the correct way when clipping your draws will severely reduce the chance of that happening. If you’re climbing to the left of the bolt, clip the gate facing right. When the biner follows the rope up the spine will hit the top of the hanger instead of the gate.
(This post was edited by USnavy on Aug 27, 2009, 7:28 AM)
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jakedatc
Aug 27, 2009, 11:24 AM
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USnavy wrote: Facing the gate the correct way when clipping your draws will severely reduce the chance of that happening. If you’re climbing to the left of the bolt, clip the gate facing right. When the biner follows the rope up the spine will hit the top of the hanger instead of the gate.
thanks for the lesson :eye roll:
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grampacharlie
Aug 27, 2009, 12:19 PM
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I keep my draws straight by the way I rack. I always attach the bolt side of my draws to my sling or harness. This way, the biner I grab it the one that goes to the clip. Just pay attention when you're racking up and you'll have less to think about on the climb.
my $.02
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bill413
Aug 27, 2009, 12:38 PM
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OK - slight hijack.
A friend of mine has a set of draws with bent gates on one end & wire gates on the other. Aside from telling him to get new draws...which way would be the better orientation for these things?
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blueeyedclimber
Aug 27, 2009, 1:44 PM
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REAL wrote: What do you recommend for ensuring your bolt side is always your bolt side when you have draws like the Metolious Infernos, or similar, with the same biner, same colour, on both ends? Is Tape on one spine ok? Other suggestions please?
Oh, btw to answer a question no one has yet, yes, you can put tape on the spine. Most people mark their gear with tape anyways, so just put the tape on one biner of your draw (either rope side or bolt side).
But, I believe all draws sold now have the dogbone loose on one side and tight on the rope side.
Josh
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jakedatc
Aug 27, 2009, 2:16 PM
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bill413 wrote: OK - slight hijack. A friend of mine has a set of draws with bent gates on one end & wire gates on the other. Aside from telling him to get new draws...which way would be the better orientation for these things?
wire gates on top.. bent gates on the rope side. bent gates are even worse on bolts than wiregates..
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jt512
Aug 27, 2009, 3:12 PM
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bill413 wrote: OK - slight hijack. A friend of mine has a set of draws with bent gates on one end & wire gates on the other. Aside from telling him to get new draws...which way would be the better orientation for these things?
Never clip a bent-gate biner to a bolt.
Jay
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shoo
Aug 27, 2009, 3:23 PM
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jt512 wrote: bill413 wrote: OK - slight hijack. A friend of mine has a set of draws with bent gates on one end & wire gates on the other. Aside from telling him to get new draws...which way would be the better orientation for these things? Never clip a bent-gate biner to a bolt. Jay
Never make statements in absolute terms.
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jakedatc
Aug 27, 2009, 3:55 PM
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shoo wrote: jt512 wrote: bill413 wrote: OK - slight hijack. A friend of mine has a set of draws with bent gates on one end & wire gates on the other. Aside from telling him to get new draws...which way would be the better orientation for these things? Never clip a bent-gate biner to a bolt. Jay Never make statements in absolute terms.
are you dumb in the skull? go try it.. see how fast you deck. don't do it at Rumney.. i won't haul your ass out. you can wait for the fat rescue guys. they are slow... very slow.
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shoo
Aug 27, 2009, 3:58 PM
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jakedatc wrote: shoo wrote: jt512 wrote: bill413 wrote: OK - slight hijack. A friend of mine has a set of draws with bent gates on one end & wire gates on the other. Aside from telling him to get new draws...which way would be the better orientation for these things? Never clip a bent-gate biner to a bolt. Jay Never make statements in absolute terms. are you dumb in the skull? go try it.. see how fast you deck. don't do it at Rumney.. i won't haul your ass out. you can wait for the fat rescue guys. they are slow... very slow.
I am taking issue with the use of the word "never" in climbing applications, not the advice given. Clearly, clipping a bent gate on a bolt is a bad idea, and you shouldn't do it.
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jakedatc
Aug 27, 2009, 4:01 PM
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shoo wrote: jakedatc wrote: shoo wrote: jt512 wrote: bill413 wrote: OK - slight hijack. A friend of mine has a set of draws with bent gates on one end & wire gates on the other. Aside from telling him to get new draws...which way would be the better orientation for these things? Never clip a bent-gate biner to a bolt. Jay Never make statements in absolute terms. are you dumb in the skull? go try it.. see how fast you deck. don't do it at Rumney.. i won't haul your ass out. you can wait for the fat rescue guys. they are slow... very slow. I am taking issue with the use of the word "never" in climbing applications, not the advice given. Clearly, clipping a bent gate on a bolt is a bad idea, and you shouldn't do it.
so saying you should never load a biner over an edge is dumb too.. Never zip clipping.. never back clip.. never have a biner crossloaded over the gate.. never fall with the rope behind your leg..
there's lots of things you just shouldn't fucking do. ever.
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jakedatc
Aug 27, 2009, 4:04 PM
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and how much experience do you have Captain Clusterfuck? to be telling others what advice they should be giving out?
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bill413
Aug 27, 2009, 4:20 PM
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OK, thanks guys - you confirmed my impression as to the correct orientation, that the bent gate only for rope overrode the no wire gate on bolt.
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shoo
Aug 27, 2009, 4:30 PM
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Oh there is thread a-driftin'
You are judging my experience based on a somewhat facetious post and a crappy picture taken 3 years ago? K. I have PM'd you more details about that particular anchor (as best as I can remember), and will let you judge for yourself whether that statement and ridiculous generalization you made is accurate.
I'll concede the point on the absolute terms. There are climbing instructions where absolutes or near absolutes are appropriate. I've already stated that this is likely one of them.
(This post was edited by shoo on Aug 27, 2009, 4:31 PM)
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