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sandeld
Jun 17, 2011, 2:20 PM
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Individual progress, is, well, "individual", and there are many variables that contribute, but is there some kind of scale like, "after climbing for 'X' amount of time, you should be able to this rating"?
Oh, and yes, route ratings are subjective too, this I understand. Just looking for some kind of general guideline.
Thanks in advance!
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rnevius
Jun 17, 2011, 2:25 PM
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No
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blueeyedclimber
Jun 17, 2011, 2:34 PM
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sandeld wrote: Individual progress, is, well, "individual", and there are many variables that contribute, but is there some kind of scale like, "after climbing for 'X' amount of time, you should be able to this rating"? Oh, and yes, route ratings are subjective too, this I understand. Just looking for some kind of general guideline. Thanks in advance!
You had it right in your first sentence. It's all individual. There are just too many variables that go into it including:
Fitness you start with (strength, muscular endurance, flexibility, etc.)
Kinesthetic learning and movement awareness
Motivation
Patience
Age (effects physical factors such as recovery time, but also effects how much time you have to commit and how much money you have to spend on gear, gym memberships, etc.)
Friends (partners that are positive, supportive, and available are key)
Genetics (let's face it, some people are just mutants)
There is no scale, but if you are psyched, positive, patient, and willing to learn, than that will get you pretty far.
Josh
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lena_chita
Moderator
Jun 17, 2011, 2:36 PM
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There is only one person who can judge "acceptable progress"-- and that is YOU.
A) If it is acceptable to you, great job, keep climbing.
B) If it is not acceptable, read a training book and start training smart instead of just climbing. Or, quit climbing. Or, come to terms with your rate of progress and go back to point A.
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TarHeelEMT
Jun 17, 2011, 2:43 PM
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Nope. It all depends on your goals.
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rtwilli4
Jun 17, 2011, 3:29 PM
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If you aren't having fun then you aren't doing it right.
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gunkiemike
Jun 18, 2011, 1:42 AM
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Let me ask - if there were a standard for progress, would you measure your own performance against it? And would that affect your level of happiness vis-a-vis climbing?
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jt512
Jun 18, 2011, 2:32 AM
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sandeld wrote: Individual progress, is, well, "individual", and there are many variables that contribute, but is there some kind of scale like, "after climbing for 'X' amount of time, you should be able to this rating"?
The first part of your question answers the second part.
Jay
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deschamps1000
Jun 18, 2011, 4:51 AM
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No.
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sandeld
Jun 20, 2011, 12:52 PM
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gunkiemike wrote: Let me ask - if there were a standard for progress, would you measure your own performance against it? And would that affect your level of happiness vis-a-vis climbing?
Yes, I would.
I'm a human performance junkie, and I train differently than every single climber I've talked to, in person or online. So, not only do I want to excel in climbing, but I want to be able to test and track my training methods. If I'm not getting the results I "should" be getting, I know I need to change something. That's all.
Also, let's not overlook my 10 years in organized sports where performance is always judged and compared to that of my peers. Some habits die hard. :-p
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Speed4TheNeed
Jun 20, 2011, 1:48 PM
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Maybe a better question for you to ask would be to ask each individual what he/she did after 6 months/1year/whatever parameter you have in mind.
I'll assume all the different answers will make the broader question irrelevant (and that's assuming everyone was even honest in the first place), but if you get some answers you'll then have some numbers to work with.
I mostly agree with the above that it is all individual and therefore virtually impossible to judge progress from one climber to the next. However, I'd make solitaire a competitive sport if I could and it's fun to be able to compare and contrast different skillsets.
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Toast_in_the_Machine
Jun 21, 2011, 1:18 PM
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sandeld wrote: gunkiemike wrote: Let me ask - if there were a standard for progress, would you measure your own performance against it? And would that affect your level of happiness vis-a-vis climbing? Yes, I would. I'm a human performance junkie, and I train differently than every single climber I've talked to, in person or online. So, not only do I want to excel in climbing, but I want to be able to test and track my training methods. If I'm not getting the results I "should" be getting, I know I need to change something. That's all. Also, let's not overlook my 10 years in organized sports where performance is always judged and compared to that of my peers. Some habits die hard. :-p
Feel free to test and track your performance and if you are bold enough then post it here.
Anyone who says "I train differently" is begging to be asked how. So how?
And lastly, if you want to judge your performance against your peers then enter a climbing competition.
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ceebo
Jun 22, 2011, 12:18 AM
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sandeld wrote: Individual progress, is, well, "individual", and there are many variables that contribute, but is there some kind of scale like, "after climbing for 'X' amount of time, you should be able to this rating"? Oh, and yes, route ratings are subjective too, this I understand. Just looking for some kind of general guideline. Thanks in advance!
Just take you'r time.. you have plenty of it. Most people i meet as new climbers seem to be at on avg 5.9 climbers. You should work your way up the letters one at a time. If you spend around 18 months per letter you should reach 12.a in around 15 years give or take. That is steady progress, jay can confirm.
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kachoong
Jun 22, 2011, 12:51 AM
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ceebo wrote: sandeld wrote: Individual progress, is, well, "individual", and there are many variables that contribute, but is there some kind of scale like, "after climbing for 'X' amount of time, you should be able to this rating"? Oh, and yes, route ratings are subjective too, this I understand. Just looking for some kind of general guideline. Thanks in advance! Just take you'r time.. you have plenty of it. Most people i meet as new climbers seem to be at on avg 5.9 climbers. You should work your way up the letters one at a time. If you spend around 18 months per letter you should reach 12.a in around 15 years give or take. That is steady progress, jay can confirm.
That's a long time to reach five twelve. Of the people I know who have or can climb 5.12 none of them took that long to get there. Also, it's not a linear progression.
Given no (or limited) injury, weekly training and a couple weekends a month outdoors, (and starting at leading 5.8) 5.10a should come within the first year. 5.11a should come in the next two years and 12a another two to three years after that. As said above though it will all depend on the individual, but that's been my general observation over the years for progression.
For some it can take two years to reach 5.12, others may never get there given their motivation levels.
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ceebo
Jun 22, 2011, 1:16 AM
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kachoong wrote: ceebo wrote: sandeld wrote: Individual progress, is, well, "individual", and there are many variables that contribute, but is there some kind of scale like, "after climbing for 'X' amount of time, you should be able to this rating"? Oh, and yes, route ratings are subjective too, this I understand. Just looking for some kind of general guideline. Thanks in advance! Just take you'r time.. you have plenty of it. Most people i meet as new climbers seem to be at on avg 5.9 climbers. You should work your way up the letters one at a time. If you spend around 18 months per letter you should reach 12.a in around 15 years give or take. That is steady progress, jay can confirm. That's a long time to reach five twelve. Of the people I know who have or can climb 5.12 none of them took that long to get there. Also, it's not a linear progression. Given no (or limited) injury, weekly training and a couple weekends a month outdoors, (and starting at leading 5.8) 5.10a should come within the first year. 5.11a should come in the next two years and 12a another two to three years after that. As said above though it will all depend on the individual, but that's been my general observation over the years for progression. For some it can take two years to reach 5.12, others may never get there given their motivation levels.
Do you have any idea what so ever how perfect that reply was?  . You made my day, really.
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enigma
Jun 22, 2011, 2:00 AM
Post #17 of 40
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ceebo wrote: kachoong wrote: ceebo wrote: sandeld wrote: Individual progress, is, well, "individual", and there are many variables that contribute, but is there some kind of scale like, "after climbing for 'X' amount of time, you should be able to this rating"? Oh, and yes, route ratings are subjective too, this I understand. Just looking for some kind of general guideline. Thanks in advance! Just take you'r time.. you have plenty of it. Most people i meet as new climbers seem to be at on avg 5.9 climbers. You should work your way up the letters one at a time. If you spend around 18 months per letter you should reach 12.a in around 15 years give or take. That is steady progress, jay can confirm. That's a long time to reach five twelve. Of the people I know who have or can climb 5.12 none of them took that long to get there. Also, it's not a linear progression. Given no (or limited) injury, weekly training and a couple weekends a month outdoors, (and starting at leading 5.8) 5.10a should come within the first year. 5.11a should come in the next two years and 12a another two to three years after that. As said above though it will all depend on the individual, but that's been my general observation over the years for progression. For some it can take two years to reach 5.12, others may never get there given their motivation levels. Do you have any idea what so ever how perfect that reply was? . You made my day, really.
YASE !
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ceebo
Jun 22, 2011, 1:57 PM
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enigma wrote: ceebo wrote: kachoong wrote: ceebo wrote: sandeld wrote: Individual progress, is, well, "individual", and there are many variables that contribute, but is there some kind of scale like, "after climbing for 'X' amount of time, you should be able to this rating"? Oh, and yes, route ratings are subjective too, this I understand. Just looking for some kind of general guideline. Thanks in advance! Just take you'r time.. you have plenty of it. Most people i meet as new climbers seem to be at on avg 5.9 climbers. You should work your way up the letters one at a time. If you spend around 18 months per letter you should reach 12.a in around 15 years give or take. That is steady progress, jay can confirm. That's a long time to reach five twelve. Of the people I know who have or can climb 5.12 none of them took that long to get there. Also, it's not a linear progression. Given no (or limited) injury, weekly training and a couple weekends a month outdoors, (and starting at leading 5.8) 5.10a should come within the first year. 5.11a should come in the next two years and 12a another two to three years after that. As said above though it will all depend on the individual, but that's been my general observation over the years for progression. For some it can take two years to reach 5.12, others may never get there given their motivation levels. Do you have any idea what so ever how perfect that reply was? . You made my day, really. YASE !
Well, hope jay got it. I really tried on that one  .
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nopainogain
Jun 22, 2011, 5:57 PM
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what should a new person do if their forearms are so tired at the end of two hours of indoor climbing that they cant close them or open them anymore? i mean i typically get so worn out that i cant grip anything. then i get in my car and after about ten minutes i have the ability to grip my steering wheel to drive. i am 215lbs and have powerlifted and done bodybuilding(natural) for years. i can do really heavy pullups with weight and pulldowns its like i just dont have stamina in my grip strength.
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erisspirit
Jun 22, 2011, 6:06 PM
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nopainogain wrote: what should a new person do if their forearms are so tired at the end of two hours of indoor climbing that they cant close them or open them anymore? i mean i typically get so worn out that i cant grip anything. then i get in my car and after about ten minutes i have the ability to grip my steering wheel to drive. i am 215lbs and have powerlifted and done bodybuilding(natural) for years. i can do really heavy pullups with weight and pulldowns its like i just dont have stamina in my grip strength.
It will get better the more you climb
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ceebo
Jun 22, 2011, 7:18 PM
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nopainogain wrote: what should a new person do if their forearms are so tired at the end of two hours of indoor climbing that they cant close them or open them anymore? i mean i typically get so worn out that i cant grip anything. then i get in my car and after about ten minutes i have the ability to grip my steering wheel to drive. i am 215lbs and have powerlifted and done bodybuilding(natural) for years. i can do really heavy pullups with weight and pulldowns its like i just dont have stamina in my grip strength.
If you have lifted for so long, maybe you're just use to fully gripping bars baring massive weight. Or in short, try to relax your grip more when climbing.
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nopainogain
Jun 22, 2011, 7:31 PM
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they are always telling me that at the rock gym. climbing casually up a rock wall is not as strenuous as holding a bar with 350 on it. theyre like "dont try to do pullups" or "use your legs more" it takes getting used to. its funny too because ive gotten to the point where i can push off with my legs on a pinch the size of a large bottelcap but i cant get used to standing on my legs while climbing to rest my arms.
thanks for all the tips guys.
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Speed4TheNeed
Jun 22, 2011, 8:59 PM
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My roommate and I were the same. Gym rats who loved the outdoors and eventually moved onto climbing as a natural progression. Basically pulled ourselves up the walls and what we lacked in technique we made up for with brute will (of course, we still couldn't do anything over 5.9...strength can't do it all quite apparently). 90% of our conversation with others was more or less getting yelled at to use our legs more and our arms less. You do get the hang of it more and more with time.
My forearms still burn with a passion, though. Still learning.
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sandeld
Jun 23, 2011, 2:22 AM
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Toast_in_the_Machine wrote: Feel free to test and track your performance and if you are bold enough then post it here.
I started 5 months ago indoors. Since then I have led a 5.10a outdoors, a 70' 5.9- outdoors (tallest single pitch in MN), and top-roped a 5.11a outdoors.
Toast_in_the_Machine wrote: Anyone who says "I train differently" is begging to be asked how. So how?
I'm a full-time electrical engineer and do personal training on the side. So, 3 days are spent in a traditional gym, usually 1 day mountain biking, and only 1 or 2 days climbing, either indoor or out. The days I'm in the gym, I focus on grip training using traditional implements and specific grip training implements, though, none of them are specific to climbing.
Toast_in_the_Machine wrote: And lastly, if you want to judge your performance against your peers then enter a climbing competition.
I fully expect most of you to call bs on the routes I've climbed, and that's fine, but even I know that I'm nowhere near ready for a climbing comp. lol
However, if I can continue to progress as fast as I have, which I know could slow or come to a stop, I wouldn't count it out. I looooooove competition.
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Toast_in_the_Machine
Jun 23, 2011, 11:50 AM
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sandeld wrote: Toast_in_the_Machine wrote: Anyone who says "I train differently" is begging to be asked how. So how? I'm a full-time electrical engineer and do personal training on the side. So, 3 days are spent in a traditional gym, usually 1 day mountain biking, and only 1 or 2 days climbing, either indoor or out. The days I'm in the gym, I focus on grip training using traditional implements and specific grip training implements, though, none of them are specific to climbing.
Also, as a free tip, once you do have a "full time" job, you can stop calling it "full time". It gives away your inexperience in the job market.
sandeld wrote: Toast_in_the_Machine wrote: And lastly, if you want to judge your performance against your peers then enter a climbing competition. I fully expect most of you to call bs on the routes I've climbed, and that's fine, but even I know that I'm nowhere near ready for a climbing comp. lol However, if I can continue to progress as fast as I have, which I know could slow or come to a stop, I wouldn't count it out. I looooooove competition.
You don't need to be any better than you are to enter a competition. Many comps have divisions broken up by skill level so that beginners compete against beginners.
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