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shurafa
Apr 4, 2012, 2:12 AM
Post #226 of 241
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Kartessa wrote: Speaking of running, I've always wanted to run a marathon but they make them so artificially long. They should make easier marathons, like 300m, for those of us who wouldnt even make it around the first corner.
The difference is a "Marathon" is inherently difficult by definition because its so so long. If you change the distance its not longer a "marathon". This is not true for bouldering. You can easily throw down a bunch of jugs on some slab and its still "bouldering".
My question to those of you that are resistant. Does setting bouldering problems in the v5.6 to v5.9 range hurt anyone? What is the argument for NOT doing it? I can think of two answers to this. 1. There is less space for harder problems. I dont see this as a major issue as most gyms have plenty of room for both. 2. It allows people who otherwise would not be allowed to boulder because its too difficult to give it a try. Climbers tend to be a very fit group in general. Easier problems means the potential for less fit people climb.
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shotwell
Apr 4, 2012, 2:47 AM
Post #227 of 241
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shurafa wrote: Kartessa wrote: Speaking of running, I've always wanted to run a marathon but they make them so artificially long. They should make easier marathons, like 300m, for those of us who wouldnt even make it around the first corner. The difference is a "Marathon" is inherently difficult by definition because its so so long. If you change the distance its not longer a "marathon". This is not true for bouldering. You can easily throw down a bunch of jugs on some slab and its still "bouldering". My question to those of you that are resistant. Does setting bouldering problems in the v5.6 to v5.9 range hurt anyone? What is the argument for NOT doing it? I can think of two answers to this. 1. There is less space for harder problems. I dont see this as a major issue as most gyms have plenty of room for both. 2. It allows people who otherwise would not be allowed to boulder because its too difficult to give it a try. Climbers tend to be a very fit group in general. Easier problems means the potential for less fit people climb.
You do understand that the grade typically given for a climb easier than VB is the YDS grade, right? You don't need a new scale and you certainly don't need to add a 'v' to the grade. If you want easier problems at your gym, ask if they will set and mark problems that are of the YDS difficulty you are looking for.
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surfstar
Apr 4, 2012, 3:35 AM
Post #228 of 241
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Boulder a TR route up to the bouldering line. Many 5.6-5;9 options that way.
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shurafa
Apr 4, 2012, 4:54 AM
Post #229 of 241
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Registered: Jul 21, 2005
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surfstar wrote: Boulder a TR route up to the bouldering line. Many 5.6-5;9 options that way.
I think this is a winner. I went to a gym in Philadelphia a few years ago and the bouldering and top problems were mixed all over the gym. It was fantastic and allowed for tons and tons of climbing options!
Unfortunately most gyms will not allow this...
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redlude97
Apr 4, 2012, 5:12 AM
Post #230 of 241
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Registered: Aug 27, 2008
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shurafa wrote: surfstar wrote: Boulder a TR route up to the bouldering line. Many 5.6-5;9 options that way. I think this is a winner. I went to a gym in Philadelphia a few years ago and the bouldering and top problems were mixed all over the gym. It was fantastic and allowed for tons and tons of climbing options! Unfortunately most gyms will not allow this...
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shockabuku
Apr 4, 2012, 1:44 PM
Post #231 of 241
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shurafa wrote: My question to those of you that are resistant. Does setting bouldering problems in the v5.6 to v5.9 range hurt anyone? What is the argument for NOT doing it? I can think of two answers to this. 1. There is less space for harder problems. I dont see this as a major issue as most gyms have plenty of room for both.
Wrong. I definitely think there aren't enough problems in the V4/V5 range in my gym (The Cliffs at Valhalla) given the setting schedule and that I go there multiple times a week. I don't want the walls full of VB crap (unless they put it upstairs). And apparently there isn't a (financial) need for it. Boulder the easy TRs - they let you do that.
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cracklover
Apr 4, 2012, 5:28 PM
Post #232 of 241
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shurafa wrote: Kartessa wrote: Speaking of running, I've always wanted to run a marathon but they make them so artificially long. They should make easier marathons, like 300m, for those of us who wouldnt even make it around the first corner. The difference is a "Marathon" is inherently difficult by definition because its so so long. If you change the distance its not longer a "marathon". This is not true for bouldering. You can easily throw down a bunch of jugs on some slab and its still "bouldering".
Hmm... That claim is not self-evident. You're going to have to back that up with something to convince me. Do you know the history of bouldering? Here's a short primer: http://www128.pair.com/...ring_History1.0.html
My understanding is that for at least 100 to 150 years, bouldering has *always* been about either pushing the difficulty level of free movement in order to train for such moves in a roped environment, or doing the same for its own sake.
In reply to: My question to those of you that are resistant. Does setting bouldering problems in the v5.6 to v5.9 range hurt anyone? What is the argument for NOT doing it? I can think of two answers to this. 1. There is less space for harder problems. I dont see this as a major issue as most gyms have plenty of room for both. 2. It allows people who otherwise would not be allowed to boulder because its too difficult to give it a try. Climbers tend to be a very fit group in general. Easier problems means the potential for less fit people climb.
Answer - first of all, it would mean tearing down the artificial boulders in the gym and replacing them with walls that are vertical to slabby. You don't see that as a "major issue"?
Second, gym owners and managers build boulders, and set problems, based on what their clientele *wants*. If you can find an area with a ton of people who just want to boulder 5.6, I'm quite sure you could lobby the local gym to set such problems.
The simple fact is, bouldering is the way it is because, like the climbers of the last 150 years, most climbers want to use the little rocks to push themselves to the absolute limit. And for most people, that is in the range of V2 to V9. So... that's what you'll find gyms catering to.
If you want to boulder easier grades, there are still plenty of real rocks outside - and I assure you there are tons of boulder problems in the 5.6 to 5.9 range, many of them awaiting FAs. Commercial establishments are always going to cater to the masses, but the real rocks will always allow you to follow your *own* dreams.
Cheers,
GO
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cracklover
Apr 4, 2012, 5:41 PM
Post #233 of 241
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shurafa wrote: surfstar wrote: Boulder a TR route up to the bouldering line. Many 5.6-5;9 options that way. I think this is a winner. I went to a gym in Philadelphia a few years ago and the bouldering and top problems were mixed all over the gym. It was fantastic and allowed for tons and tons of climbing options! Unfortunately most gyms will not allow this...
I think you missed surfstar's point. Just because it is a lead or TR route doesn't mean you can't boulder the first 10 (or whatever) feet of it.
I almost always start my roped sessions by bouldering on the roped walls. I happen to traverse, but there's nothing saying I (or you) couldn't work the starts of taped routes instead.
GO
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drumandclimb
May 23, 2012, 3:27 AM
Post #234 of 241
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Registered: May 1, 2012
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dude i get where you are coming from but people still want to lean to climb and you will always get that in gyms because when you start climbing you dont want to go out to the rocks yet and the gym is alot easier to get to.
i agree that it sucks when you have alot of people that dont know what they are doing but you should not hate on them or tell them to leave but you should help them so they can get better because i can garentee you that you didnt start on a v6 and there might be people at your gym that were thinking the same thing about you when you started climbing there
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hobgoblin11
Jun 4, 2012, 9:25 PM
Post #235 of 241
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Registered: Oct 10, 2011
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Errr...
Most gym offer VB rating on their boulders which is slightly more difficult than climbing a ladder.
If you cant manage that.. you're probably parked in the handicapped spot.
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dindolino32
Jul 20, 2012, 5:33 PM
Post #236 of 241
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Registered: May 3, 2008
Posts: 155
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I think you and your friends might be pushing yourself into a corner that you made up yourself. A person that is worried about every "rule" that someone made up about climbing will always have a problem and be pushed into a corner. The blame will always be on something else, ("shoes suck", "too humid", "route setters suck" "too reachy" "scrunchy" etc etc, ) Ive heard it all as a previous setter, I know that some people just will never be happy because they want more at their level, or they want the perfect moves that match their strengths so they can climb harder grades. I have done it myself.
Quit putting barriers because there isn't a labeled grade, with specific moves for you to follow, instead play add-on with your friends and more importantly try a little training to better yourself. We DONT need any more climbers or people spraying about grades and leaving trash at the crags. We DO need more people promoting the respect for the outdoors weather they climb 5.6 or 5.15. Quit worrying about a provided grade and tell your friends to have fun with whatever they can do.
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Toast_in_the_Machine
Jul 24, 2012, 12:01 AM
Post #237 of 241
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dindolino32 wrote: I think you and your friends might be pushing yourself into a corner that you made up yourself. A person that is worried about every "rule" that someone made up about climbing will always have a problem and be pushed into a corner. The blame will always be on something else, ("shoes suck", "too humid", "route setters suck" "too reachy" "scrunchy" etc etc, ) Ive heard it all as a previous setter, I know that some people just will never be happy because they want more at their level, or they want the perfect moves that match their strengths so they can climb harder grades. I have done it myself. Quit putting barriers because there isn't a labeled grade, with specific moves for you to follow, instead play add-on with your friends and more importantly try a little training to better yourself. We DONT need any more climbers or people spraying about grades and leaving trash at the crags. We DO need more people promoting the respect for the outdoors weather they climb 5.6 or 5.15. Quit worrying about a provided grade and tell your friends to have fun with whatever they can do.
As someone who has provide you almost all of those excuses (except too reachy and too humid), I will have to say that, especially in a gym setting, there is a good reason focus on the names / ratings. Even someone trying route with a stupid name like "rainbows and lollipops" can provide someone with motivation to improve specifics skills. Now outside (depending on the weather (sp-Dan)), that is where you should quit worrying about grades. The gym is for frustration to get better, the outside is to be enjoyed. (in my opionon)
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dindolino32
Jul 24, 2012, 5:14 AM
Post #238 of 241
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Fair enough Rainbow Man. If you read my other post, I am a Robot.
I agree with you to an extent... but Mythos are pretty good shoes :). I guess my main issue with the original post was that every rule had to be spelled out in order for success or fun to be had. It's like he/she couldn't climb something that felt at their limit unless it had a grade specifically attached to it. The mentality should be happy within their own extent. In John Gills rating we should always be striving within our own personal ratings. All tries should be B2 at that during the moment for that given individual. Then when that person achieves, wheather a V0 or V7, they can be proud of their personal accomplishments. That is why climbers can cheer on their friends weather they send their project 5.9 or project 5.12 . I also agree that the gym is a place to train, but mentality can be trained there as well.
Also note that nothing was pointed at you, I just needed some clout to make a point.
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DonH
Aug 21, 2012, 6:40 PM
Post #239 of 241
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Registered: May 27, 2011
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I dont care what something is graded honestly... Its all subjective. I climb simply to have fun, no harm in that?
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weschrist
Aug 21, 2012, 9:36 PM
Post #240 of 241
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If I remember correctly, the Verm told me "v2 is defined by the hardest thing Todd Skinner could climb."
I can't believe the OP spent that much time on their post. If you can't do the "v0's" then just grab whatever and climb wherever... that's how we learned back in the '80's, whether on rock or plastic.
You kids these days need your hands held through everything... jesus!
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shotwell
Aug 23, 2012, 12:01 AM
Post #241 of 241
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Registered: Jan 6, 2009
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weschrist wrote: If I remember correctly, the Verm told me "v2 is defined by the hardest thing Todd Skinner could climb." I can't believe the OP spent that much time on their post. If you can't do the "v0's" then just grab whatever and climb wherever... that's how we learned back in the '80's, whether on rock or plastic. You kids these days need your hands held through everything... jesus!
With the obvious caveat that John said "was." At that time, v1 was roughly equivalent to modern day v6. v3 was roughly v9. John changed the scale to be more granular (and useful) with the publication of his Hueco guide.
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