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yanqui
May 17, 2006, 4:04 PM
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In reply to: why are so many NPS employees bitter people? |
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nuts_r_us
May 17, 2006, 4:47 PM
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In reply to: why are so many NPS employees bitter people?
You would be too if you had to deal with tourons and Germans all day long.
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md3
May 17, 2006, 5:25 PM
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ne_dan wrote:
In reply to: nobody cares not even you.
Actually I do care. I care about access because I like to go climbing a lot, and as I am no one’s “ambassador”, I can’t just move on to the next area when local options become more restricted or close altogether.
Sensitivity to access issues and environmental responsibility are very different things. While environmental impact may affect the access debate, access is often more immediately determined by opinions and prejudices that have little direct relationship to quantifiable negative environmental impact. Environmentally responsible organizations may pursue objectives that directly impinge on climbing access. Of course, attempts to secure access without regard for potential negative environmental impacts are unattractive and anathema to the environmentally appreciative and respectful aspect of climbing I embrace. Patagonia’s environmental efforts are great, but the insensitivity to climbing access issues evinced in that statement is especially repugnant given their use of a climbing image and a climbing “ambassador” to sell their products.
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crankmas
May 17, 2006, 7:26 PM
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Thanks for the insights on my perceptions of NPS folks come to think of it there are some bitter climbers, maybe its just a human thing- sad- everybody should lighten up.
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jabtocrag
May 20, 2006, 3:44 AM
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Comes across as a desperate plea.
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c-dub
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May 20, 2006, 4:53 AM
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anyone else question the validity of this "plea"? i saw it on another website. a letter next to a picture of dean and we're supposed to assume that it is actually from him. also, who is that quote on the bottom from? no citation. interesting...
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jstan
May 21, 2006, 9:44 PM
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Climbing has always had difficulties much like those of today. It argues well for our ability to resolve these problems if we are careful to respect the needs and rights of others fully as much as we respect our own. And success is always made more likely if we know who our friends are. If I were still climbing I think I would first of all read Desert Solitaire yet another time. Indeed, were I in the area I would go to the places described by Mr. Abbey and there read the relevant passages. His message is, if anything, even more powerful today than it was forty years ago.
I would urge those concerned with recent events also to read Abbey again, to carefully think through all the things at stake, and then to express yourself in personal letters to the appropriate principals. If you will permit me, I will here draw from my own past experience.
In the mid 1970’s climbers really had no lobbying effort going so I got involved trying to get people from as far away as California to write West Virginia’s Monongahela National Forest arguing against the Forest Service’s supporting the destruction of Mouth of Seneca with an interstate highway. At a meeting with the superintendent he remarked to me on the side that, “you are certainly very good at getting letters written.” The wry smile on his face and the fact he said anything at all immediately told me what his personal opinion was on the matter. He was expressing his gratitude to climbers for giving him some of the ammunition he needed to deal with the situation. From what I read on this thread I would conclude management of Arches National Park is very professional and careful. We need to be the same.
About that same time chromoly was literally destroying the rock right in front of our eyes. Before very long something quite magical happened. In all the climbing stores chromoly was moved to a back shelf. There was never a word said or an announcement made. Surely, no one’s profits became higher because of this change. Could they have done more? Possibly. We did not need perfection, however. In the areas where I was climbing we did need help very badly. And we got it.
Lester Germer taught me something of immense value, which I want to share. Back in the dark days of the late 60’s Lester said to me, “Somebody has GOT to do something!” I could not believe what I had just heard. I don’t know how many of you are familiar with Lester. He volunteered to fight in WWI and flew as an ace fighter pilot in that god awful war. He survived, came home, got his degree in physics, and went to work for Bell Labs. While there he did the work that was the basis of a Nobel prize, later cited by Albert Einstein as the experiment that most informed his own view of the Quantum Theory(Davisson-Germer experiment). While in his 60’s Lester was marooned on the Otter Body snow field and spent the night in freezing waterfall , after a person higher up had fallen and planted their crampons in his back. A year or so later Lester was trekking in Nepal. The source of my astonishment was that someone so powerful and who had apparently never failed at anything – felt helpless.
What I took away was that anyone who is breathing, can feel helpless. It is a feeling without meaning. One’s only rational response is to give it your best, knowing that if failure does come your way it will only make you stronger.
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brianinslc
May 22, 2006, 2:18 PM
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Nicely done.
A "pox" in Arches? Or in the community...
Thanks,
-Brian in SLC
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weschrist
May 22, 2006, 2:26 PM
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In reply to: if any of the companies who have tried to buy patagonia succeeded, they would be better run, have better products and i would be a customer even if the products weren't free to me.
It worked for The North Face... oh, wait, no it didn't.
In reply to: the people who love their small independent manufacturers, don't really support independence or taking a stand. they just support the 'little guy' and want them to stay little because they too are little--little minded people and love company
They all bitch about the corporations and claim to support the little guy, but when it comes down to it they will still go to WalMart to save $1 on peanut butter. Or go to Starfucks because they are too lazy to cross the street or walk the extra block to a real coffee shop.
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sidepull
May 22, 2006, 5:50 PM
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still no mention of this Climbing or Rock and Ice. So strange.
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gravitylover
Jun 1, 2006, 4:10 AM
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Who wouldn't like to see some video of this awesome rock climbed. Free solo is the way to go, too. I think it's awesome.
If anyone is concerned about access, the issue is with the park rangers (those that are anti-climber) not with other climbers. Dean Potter certainly doesn't deserve to lose any sponsors over this.
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greenmachineman7
Jun 1, 2006, 4:52 AM
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In reply to: Dean Potter certainly doesn't deserve to lose any sponsors over this.
I'm not sure I agree with that statement. If I were Patagonia, I'd certainly publicity chastize DP for it...
I mean really, I think that as climbers, we're all pretty intrigued and psyched that someone did it, but to blatantly do so against park regulations gives us ALL a bad name and threatens our access issues in all climbing areas.
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gravitylover
Jun 3, 2006, 5:41 AM
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In reply to: Dang dudes, when I send Delicate Arch I am going to chalk up that bad boy likes no one elses business. Probably throw in a couple of pitons, hell I might put up a route of my own, bolted mind you. :lol: If we can break the middle loose it would be a great boulder problem. Hey, I will start a business selling rock table tops made from the arches. There is a market! The argument of everyone against the climb: That pretty arch, no one should climb it because I want to look at it, it is pretty. Maybe we should stop mining iron ore, we can make do without steel. We are only distorting the natural balance of the earth. Maybe we should stop killing forests. We don't need houses or shelter, foolish humans.
I think mped has a point (made with sarcasm?). It's absurd that there should be no climbing on something just because it's awesome to look at.
However, I think we can find alternative resources and keep trees standing. And I'll still climb a tree. I don't think Dean want's to destroy anything, either.
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sidepull
Apr 17, 2007, 4:06 AM
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[quote "sidepull"]still no mention of this Climbing or Rock and Ice. So strange.[/quote]
[u]http://www.climbing.com/news/hotflashes/arches07/[/u]
Finally, almost a year later they (Climbing) sort of, maybe, kind of, almost admit that it's a potential possibility that Dean could have or even might have climbed an arch and maybe, in a very vague, obtuse and esoteric probabilistic sense, this caused something to happen. (Wait, cause is way too strong of word). Of course it's a really a good thing children, don't be mad at Dean, he did us all a big favor. That is, if he did anything, which, we're not really sure about.
I swear, the same idiots managing climbing must be PR consultants for the Attorney General.
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boymeetsrock
Mar 23, 2009, 8:42 PM
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Hard to believe this was two years ago already.
Any body seen or heard of Potter since? Seems like he dropped of the face of delicate arch...
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sidepull
Mar 23, 2009, 8:52 PM
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there was an awesome "jeep world of adventure" segment on Potter free soloing the North Face of the Eiger (I think?) with a base-jumping parachute on his back just-in-case. It was really well filmed and beautiful. I don't care for Dean so much though.
I think he was cut by Patagonia.
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cracklover
Mar 23, 2009, 9:21 PM
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boymeetsrock wrote: Hard to believe this was two years ago already. Any body seen or heard of Potter since? Seems like he dropped of the face of delicate arch...
You're resurrecting a two year old thread in order to rag on DP?
Lame.
GO
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quiteatingmysteak
Mar 23, 2009, 9:26 PM
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He's still out there, for sure. I think he spent some time in Patagonia and, of course, there was the whole freebase thing....
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zeke_sf
Mar 23, 2009, 9:38 PM
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cracklover wrote: boymeetsrock wrote: Hard to believe this was two years ago already. Any body seen or heard of Potter since? Seems like he dropped of the face of delicate arch... You're resurrecting a two year old thread in order to rag on DP? Lame. GO
Indeed.
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boymeetsrock
Mar 23, 2009, 11:53 PM
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zeke_sf wrote: cracklover wrote: boymeetsrock wrote: Hard to believe this was two years ago already. Any body seen or heard of Potter since? Seems like he dropped of the face of delicate arch... You're resurrecting a two year old thread in order to rag on DP? Lame. GO Indeed.
While perhaps a side effect of the thread resurrection, it is not my intent to rag on DP. I just haven't heard anything about him, when in fact he was a prominent figure before the indecent. And I was bored at work.
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hafilax
Mar 24, 2009, 12:18 AM
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He's still a prominent figure. You mustn't be looking in the right places.
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