|
kungfuclimber
May 20, 2005, 2:29 PM
Post #26 of 70
(8693 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Aug 6, 2002
Posts: 162
|
Did you perhaps miss how the OP was bleeding from the head after he fell? You take a hard hit to the knee and you'll limp a while. You take a hard hit to the head and you'll slurr your words for the rest of your life, or worse.
I'm not looking to hijack this thread with yet another pros/cons of helmets. This is to the original poster: wear a helmet so that the next time you make a mistake leading trad (and you will, we all do) you don't brain yourself.
In reply to: helmets are overrated on single pitch stuff. I guess it's a good idea, but realistly it'd be safer to wear a hemlet, kneepads, elbow pads, and kevlar body armor etc. on a causal bike ride, but who does. But usually I'll only wear one on multipitch. If the rock is solid and blocks aren't falling on your head, I'm not a fan of em. Mulitpitch is a different story though. |
|
|
|
|
roshampo
May 20, 2005, 2:32 PM
Post #27 of 70
(8693 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Feb 1, 2005
Posts: 65
|
I guess you're right, most beginer routes have bad falls. But at least here, most stuff over 5.8 has clean falls and you wont bleed from your head.
|
|
|
|
|
gat
May 20, 2005, 2:39 PM
Post #28 of 70
(8693 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Oct 3, 2003
Posts: 420
|
In reply to: I guess you're right, most beginer routes have bad falls. But at least here, most stuff over 5.8 has clean falls and you wont bleed from your head.
It's not out of the realm of possibility that a beginner leader can flip backwards when they fall. All it takes is a lapse of concentration on where the rope is with regards to the feet/legs. It's that much more possible when they are on a route that pumps/challenges them to the point that they are taking a fall.
|
|
|
|
|
stzzo
May 20, 2005, 2:42 PM
Post #29 of 70
(8693 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Feb 4, 2005
Posts: 143
|
In reply to: It sounds like you sewed it up and your second piece caught you.
I don't agree, IMHO the OP should be placing more gear at this stage in the game (while not as skilled as placing gear). I also disagree that 3 pieces in 35 feet is "sewing it up". Just my opinion...
|
|
|
|
|
wanderinfree
May 20, 2005, 2:45 PM
Post #30 of 70
(8693 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jun 7, 2004
Posts: 476
|
So I'll hop into the fray here. I'm also in the position of just learning to lead, after a couple years of seconding. Do leaders fall? Hell yes. Should you have downclimbed or placed a second piece when you realized you were pumped? Sure thing. But none of us know the exact position you were in, so maybe taking the fall was your only option there. My one big suggestion would be to stick to climbs that are several grades below your climbing ability to lead and practice placing gear. Learning solid gear placement, honing your ability to grab the right sized piece first, watching for rope drag, when to extend draws, route finding, efficiency in climbing and cutting pump, etc.... That's a ton to add to what is normally just the act of climbing on second. Stick to easier routes with lots of good pro until the rest of the skills are solid. Good luck!
|
|
|
|
|
giza
May 20, 2005, 2:45 PM
Post #31 of 70
(8693 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Oct 22, 2003
Posts: 315
|
In reply to: In reply to: Im usually pretty mild mannered on these forums, but Id like to say your a f---ing idiot for thinking you could fall on any cam safely. Its one thing to rest on gear, its another to climb above and fall just to rest. Tone it down and climb some easier stuff. Leaders dont fall. :lol:
I've taken so many whippers on gear I fill my drawers just thinking about it. Leaders who push it fall on a regular basis. Make sure your gear placements are as solid as possible and keep climbing.
|
|
|
|
|
nedsurf
May 20, 2005, 2:52 PM
Post #32 of 70
(8693 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Nov 9, 2004
Posts: 387
|
You are definitly going about this with the wrong mentality.
A. I don't know your top level, but think about climbing on easier stuff for your first trad climbs. Second lead at 5.8 is probably too much. You need the ability and time to evaluate each placement.
B. five cams and two nuts. You are buying in the wrong order. Spend the next sixty dollars on a full set of nuts. Mabye some tricams and hexes. Learn to place good passive pro before cams. cams are harder to tell if it is a good placement, especially when using the smaller cams.
c. Deciding to fall is quite foolish on a trad climb. A trad fall is more serious than sport falls. You are not in a gym. Down climbing is an important skill to learn for trad climbing.
You made mistakes and fortunatly you did not suffer that much for them. It is difficult and dangerous for beginning trad climbers. Try to learn as much as possible from this experience.
|
|
|
|
|
berkly
May 20, 2005, 2:54 PM
Post #33 of 70
(8693 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Dec 29, 2003
Posts: 189
|
In reply to: Quote: Leaders dont fall. You've got to be kidding, right? Why not? The purpose of placing good gear is to protect you when you fall. Leaders do fall.
Let me qualify my statements earlier as it seems like I flew off the handle calling this guy a fucking idiot. When I read the OP, I thought to myself, why the hell would an inexperienced leader intentionally take a fall just to rest? If the guy said, "I was pumped so I tried to climb to the next rest, or down climb to my last piece or tried to slap a cam in , when all of the sudden my foot slipped or my hand popped off and I fell when all the sudden I heard a PING, looked up and my last cam was firing out of the rock" I would have said it was an unintentional fall and thought nothing of it. Weve all taken unintentional falls, yes it happens and yes thats why we place gear.
But the guy said
In reply to: I got a few feet above the blue cam and got a bit shaky and decided i would fall and take a rest for a second and continue on.
An intentional fall in my mind is stupid. And for not having enough common sense or experience leading on moderate grades to either climb down or up, or put in another piece if available, warranted calling the guy an idiot. So to be a little more tactful let me quote J-ung by saying
In reply to: Yeah, you probably made a bunch of decisions that were unwise.
So let me rephrase the most common phrase in climbing
Leaders dont intentionally fall.
|
|
|
|
|
justanotherclimber
May 20, 2005, 3:18 PM
Post #34 of 70
(8693 views)
Shortcut
Registered: May 20, 2005
Posts: 60
|
In reply to: I was climbing up a crack(with the help of my friends full rack) and placed a yellow at about 20 feet, then another 10 feet and another yellow. At this point began the hard stuff, only a 5.8 but my second ever real trad lead. I climbed about 5 feet above the yellow and place a .5 blue in what seemed to be a nice crack.
one of the primary rules of trad leading is to 'protect early and often'. this is especially true when you're a beginner- you have to remember that you're creating a system that is keeping you alive just in case. 20 feet off the deck for a first piece is dangerous- you need to place gear much sooner than that and much more often. At 35', you should have had 5 or more pieces in.
In reply to: I got a few feet above the blue cam and got a bit shaky and decided i would fall and take a rest for a second and continue on.
its been mentioned already, but probably should be mentioned again. in the world of gear placements, 'deciding to fall' is something that should never happen to a beginner- ever. falling on trad (as you have discovered) can be very dangerous. when you're starting out, the biggest danger is usually ledges and other obstacles that litter the easier climbs- making injury a high likelihood if you pop. it sounds like you had a relatively clean fall- but when a fall seems like a possibility, you need to account for obstacles below- a 20' whip could mean feet first into a ledge 15' below.
if you find yourself needing a rest, then the best option is to either plug in a piece where you are and hang on it, downclimb back to a piece, or (if you know the gear is good), push for the next available placement.
In reply to: I fell on the blue cam, which i had a bad feeling about and looked up and heard a very scary and distinctive, "PING" and saw the blue cam flying out about 2 feet from the wall.
okay, this could have been fatal in combination with your statement above where you decided to fall to rest. luckily, it wasnt. if you have a bad feeling about gear- you do one of two things depending on the situation-
1) place another piece and equalize the two- or just place another piece if you dont know how to equalize. even if not equalized, chances are higher that one of the pieces will hold.
2) work to get a better piece of gear in. you should be placing gear from stances or rest spots anyway, so you should have the option of trying to get a better piece in.
also, dont neglect your stoppers if they are an option- a bomber stopper is just as good (and sometimes better) than a cam in the same spot.
In reply to: After the fall I tried to trust my cam placements as I practice aided up another crack, but ever time i took a small step on my aid ladder i was scared to death it would pop out. How can i go back to trusting cams. I thought the placement looked ok but it wasn't, i just can't tell anymore.
someone posted earlier asking about how the cam failed. theres many reasons it could have- you may have had a bad placement, but that is less likely than a couple of other things- usually if a cam looks good, it is (really small cams can be difficult to judge, but anything .5" and bigger should be relatively easy to evaluate).
a couple of possibilities:
1) you didnt sling it long enough. as a new climber, this is a common mistake. if you placed the cam in a spot where if it walked it could find its way to a wider part of the crack, this may be the problem.
2) you dislodged the cam from its optimum placement as you climbed past it. this relates to the first possibility. on some climbs (especially straight in crack climbs) it's difficult to move past your gear without moving it. it takes practice and experience to learn how to do this easily.
3) you placed the cam in bad rock. it may have looked like good rock- but it also may have been bad rock. along with learning about gear, you need to learn about the rock in your area and learn to spot when its bad. sometimes if you find yourself needing gear on bad rock, a stopper can be a much better option because it does not exert the outward forces on the rock that a cam does. however, its also just as likely that a stopper can blow in bad rock- once again, this takes experience and judgement learned over following a lot and leading a lot.
so you got spooked, it happens. you made a bad judgement called and lived to tell the tale. good for you. however, you need to get back on the horse, so to speak. so a couple of pieces of advice-
1) start following again- starting with the climb you fell on. make sure to have your leader let you keep the cam that popped with you. when you get to the spot you placed it- place it again and see what went wrong with it- or what could have gone wrong with it. leave it there and have someone else either climb up to it or rappel to it and see what they think. find out!
2) follow alot more climbs- learn alot more about gear. along with learning about gear, learn about the rock. try to spot bad rock. try to spot why your leader slings some things long and others short. think about these things because they will help you a great deal later on.
3) lead. lead every easy climb in the tri-state area if you can. sew 'em up- put 30 pieces in 30' if you have the gear. just get back on the sharp end- do NOT be afraid of it. when you're leading, remember everything you've learned in this forum and out on the rock and you should be okay.
good luck- i'm really happy that you made it out of your situation with relatively few injuries.
|
|
|
|
|
dirtineye
May 20, 2005, 3:23 PM
Post #35 of 70
(8693 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Mar 29, 2003
Posts: 5590
|
In reply to: I have taken 1 fall on a peice of trad gear before the scary experience i had a week ago today. The first fall i took was on my friends gear with a rope attached to the cam(a #1 rock empire i think) and then a top rope incase the cam pulled. I pretty much trusted cams after this. A month later i had been really getting in to trad and I have been building up my rack, which is now up to 5 cams 2 nuts and a big bro in the mail. I was climbing up a crack(with the help of my friends full rack) and placed a yellow at about 20 feet, then another 10 feet and another yellow. At this point began the hard stuff, only a 5.8 but my second ever real trad lead. I climbed about 5 feet above the yellow and place a .5 blue in what seemed to be a nice crack. I got a few feet above the blue cam and got a bit shaky and decided i would fall and take a rest for a second and continue on. I fell on the blue cam, which i had a bad feeling about and looked up and heard a very scary and distinctive, "PING" and saw the blue cam flying out about 2 feet from the wall. I looked down and thought "oh s---" i hope my other cam holds or i will break something. Moments later i looked up and realized i had a blue cam at my belay loop and a lovely yellow cam holding my 20 foot fall. In the end I only ended up with a 2" chunk of skin missing from my elbow and blood on my knee, head and other parts of my elbow. Hearing that ping and seeing a cam pullout was probably the scarest experience ever. After the fall I tried to trust my cam placements as I practice aided up another crack, but ever time i took a small step on my aid ladder i was scared to death it would pop out. How can i go back to trusting cams. I thought the placement looked ok but it wasn't, i just can't tell anymore. -Travis
It's good that you are OK.
If you continue to climb 20 feet before placing any gear, your climbing days may be fewer than you think.
Much of the time three pieces in 35 feet is not enough. As a beginner you definately should be sewing it up, with a piece every 3-5 feet if you can get it. Practice makes perfect.
Now, about your piece pulling, you give so little information that there is not muh anyone can say to help you.
How was the cam actually placed? Were the lobes vertical or horizontal in the crack? Was tha crack a vertical crack? Were the sides of this crack parallel or flaring? Was the crack regular or irregular? How long was the sling on the cam? Did you even have a sling on the cam? Could you have rotated the cam as you climbed past it? Did rock break out when the cam popped?
Answer these and the other questions people asked and then you can possibly figure something out about what caused the failure.
Why on earth would you buy a big bro when you don't even have any nuts to speak of or even a tri-cam? Big Bros are maybe the hardest piece to place correctly.
|
|
|
|
|
mjroche
May 20, 2005, 3:37 PM
Post #36 of 70
(8693 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Aug 5, 2004
Posts: 333
|
Why on earth would anyone say, don't bother with a helmet on single pitch stuff. That makes no f-ing sense. First pitch is where you're most likely to deck from. Wear a helmet. period.
|
|
|
|
|
dingus
May 20, 2005, 3:43 PM
Post #37 of 70
(8693 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Dec 16, 2002
Posts: 17398
|
In reply to: Im usually pretty mild mannered on these forums, but Id like to say your a f---ing idiot for thinking you could fall on any cam safely.
If you're going to call someone a fucking idiot in writing at least have the good graces to spell correctly.
DMT
|
|
|
|
|
ricardol
May 20, 2005, 3:49 PM
Post #38 of 70
(8693 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Nov 11, 2002
Posts: 1050
|
one of the first skills you need to learn when climbing trad is how to place good gear under alot of stress ..
.. taking falls above gear while learning trad is a surefire way to end up in the hospital ..
i know that you're not asking for advice (and everyone is giving it) .. but try this next time you get sketched on a crack above your abilities ..
before you totally pump out, grab the right cam, shove it in the crack, clip it to your harness and take a rest .. or just pull on it ..
.. many people will look down on the practice since its cheating .. but when you're learning trad, better to cheat and save a broken foot or worse.
.. but like i said, you need to be good at placing gear under alot of stress..
|
|
|
|
|
mtnbkrxtrordnair
May 20, 2005, 4:07 PM
Post #39 of 70
(8693 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jun 11, 2003
Posts: 267
|
Some good stuff in this thread. Just a couple of questions and comments:
If you were climbing a crack, why all cams? Was it parallel sided? if not maybe you should have used nuts. It's easier to tell if you have a good placement with passive pro.
Your first piece was at 20 ft. Was there no pro lower?
You did not back up the first piece. That means if you fell while placing your second piece, and the first pulled, you would have decked from 30 ft. You can die falling from that height if you fall the wrong way. If you don't die you could break a leg, or get paralyzed.
Never rely on one piece to keep you off the deck. Redundancy in your system of protection is mandatory. Do yourself a favor and read the R Gold sticky thread in general climbing. It is required reading for a beginning trad leader, IMO.
http://www.rockclimbing.com/....php?t=62477&start=0
Especially this part, copy it, stick it in your guide book and read before every lead:
Quote from Richard Goldstone (rgold)
The most important principle for using trad protection, especiallly but not exclusively if you are just learning, is redundancy. The idea is to develop a system you trust while maintaining a healthy scepticism about the reliability of any one piece. Try not to put yourself in the position of having a single piece, no matter how "bombproof," between you and disaster.
Placing more than gear than seems to be essential requires discipline and endurance, marks of a good trad climber. Failing safely is a better longevity option than betting the farm on a single piece.
Nonetheless, all climbing to some extent, but trad climbing intrinsically, involves risk. A lot of climbs have places you better not fall from, and this is part of the essence of trad climbing---performing in a cool and controlled manner when confronting a risky situation. Neutralizing danger, not just by protection skills, but also by climbing skills, is part of the game. (Unaulterated difficulty unencumbered by concerns of mortality is the province of sport climbing.)
Arguments about whether or not falling is a good idea always have these provisions: "if the gear is bomber, go for it," which is fair enough, but such pronouncements avoid the real problem by defining it out of existence. Many accidents happen when the bomber gear turns out not to be bomber. The climber (1) misjudged the pro (something that is quite possible for experts, let alone beginners), (2) failed to build sufficient redundancy into the system, and then (3) misjudged their ability and went for it in a situation when they were not well protected.
As for judging pro, I concur with the posters who recommend aid climbing. Redundancy is a state of mind combined with the will to carry it out. The most difficult issue is how to climb without falling when falling is a bad idea. (For example, if there is one piece between you and the ground and you can't back it up, then falling is a bad idea.) Here I think modern trends can inculcate bad habits. Gym climbing, sport climbing, and bouldering all emphasize moving up in the most marginal of situations. There is a risk of developing a tunnel-vision mentality that, first of all, accepts marginal moves even though the consequences of failure are catastrophic, perhaps not even noticing that the climber has gone from control to high risk status, and secondly, that blinds the climber to both the need and the opportunity to climb down to rest, regroup, and yes, in some cases, to retreat. Mental discipline is the primary tool for avoiding these situations, but this discipline is not something acquired in the gym or on sport climbs.
Here are some exercises that may be of some use:
(1) When climbing in the gym or on sport routes, try to be conscious of how marginal you are. (This does not mean reducing the difficulty level, just striving for heightened awareness.) From a trad perspective, falling may be ok, but an unexpected fall is not good. Know when you are on the edge.
(2) A lot of falls on steep ground happen when the leader runs out of gas. Try to develop a sense of your "half-way point," because this is one of the moments when you have to decide whether to move up or down. For example, a gym exercise is to select a challenging route and then see how high on it you can get and still climb all the way back down without falling.
(3) Develop the mental habit of filing away "retreat data." This can make the difference between stepping down and falling. (For example, when you step over a small roof, the holds underneath disappear. Did you make a mental note of features above the roof that will help you locate the holds underneath?)
(4) Don't neglect the building of a base of climbing below your limit, climbing in which you are relatively comfortable but are also frequently in the "must not fall" zone. A steady diet of well-protected hard climbing at or near your limit, while essential for raising your climbing level, may shortchange you on control and calmness when things get dicey, as they will, sooner or later...
And like every body else said, next time retreat when you get shaky, and wear a helmet.
I'm glad you injuries were minor, be careful out there.
Oh, and following an experienced leader a bunch before taking the sharp end is good advice.
MtnBiker
|
|
|
|
|
ksolem
May 20, 2005, 4:13 PM
Post #40 of 70
(8693 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jun 30, 2003
Posts: 126
|
Sometimes it can be most beneficial to double up your pro if you are in a comfortable position and about to venture out into more difficult terrain. It is a bad practice to lead into a crux over a shaky piece with your previous piece so far below. Good thing the second one worked, eh? :arrow:
|
|
|
|
|
deschamps1000
May 20, 2005, 4:23 PM
Post #41 of 70
(8693 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Apr 29, 2004
Posts: 343
|
A few notes...
1. Correctly placed trad gear does hold. Period. But as a newby, it takes time to understand what is correctly placed and what is not. The learning curve for trad is very steep, and I highly recomend you place gear for a long time on easy ground before starting to take falls.
2. If you were bleading from your head, did you have a helmet? Free falling past rock for 20 feet without a helmet seems very dangerous to me, regardless of what other people have said on this post.
|
|
|
|
|
leinosaur
May 20, 2005, 4:23 PM
Post #42 of 70
(8693 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Oct 6, 2003
Posts: 690
|
I re-named this thread, "I pulled out my cam" -
DUDE!
I'm not usually one for harsh words, but berkly's my bro so I did some research and gotta back him up here:
idiot:
1. A foolish or stupid person.
2. A person of profound mental retardation having a mental age below three years and generally being unable to learn connected speech or guard against common dangers. The term belongs to a classification system no longer in use and is now considered offensive.
I expect ol' berk was trying to get your attention, as it's amazing you're still alive. Home-slice is all about using the gear for its intended purpose, early and often! Many's the easy route we've sewn up by turns, getting to know placements by placing, cleaning, and debating them.
Did this "friend" of yours with the full rack have anything to say about the scarcity of your placements?
Not too long ago many fewer folk in this forum made nicey-nice when somebody described nearly killing themselves.
Or rather, potentially decking themselves into a vegetative state.
You were "falling to rest" right in the zone where if you deck, you're very likely to do more than just break an ankle but less likely to actually die - often the scariest zone for soloists, from what I've heard
You've seen from the prior posts that there are many questions you should be asking in addition to "how do I trust cams again" -
I'll ask some of them for you in a somewhat snide manner to emphasize the seriousness of what you're proposing to do (i.e. lead trad ever again after such an episode as you described)
1. Is my brain something I intend to use in the future?
2. If so, should I wear a helmet, especially on early trad leads?
3. If I get pumped out on 5.8's, should I be leading them anytime soon?
4. Will I learn to place gear by running it out?
5. Will I feel more secure above four or five pieces than above two?
6. Does it make sense to fall intentionally on a piece I have a bad feeling about?
7. Does it make sense to fall intentionally on a piece?
8. Does it make sense to fall intentionally?
Take care, man. "Getting into trad" means way more than collecting gear.
|
|
|
|
|
cracklover
May 20, 2005, 6:16 PM
Post #43 of 70
(8693 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Nov 14, 2002
Posts: 10162
|
To the OP:
Plenty of people are pushing the grades right off the bat these days, and falling on their gear just like you did. Plenty of people are learning the wrong lesson from mock leading, just like you did. Plenty of green leaders are walking around thinking that just because that last cam held, the next one will too. That lesson is wrong. Dead wrong. It's just like the financial specialists say - previous performance does not guarantee future results.
There are a lot of ticking time bombs out there, just like the OP was before a piece pulled. Plenty of them may think they're superior because they haven't had a piece pull. Maybe that next piece will pull, and maybe it won't, but if you're a beginning trad leader, with every fall, you're just begging to be snuffed.
I led trad for four years before I really knew enough to start pushing the grades (for me 5.10s) enough to fall periodically. And I climb with some folks who've been trad leading for 20 years, who lead at the same difficulty level as they TR, and still almost never fall.
I'm not saying you need to wait four years before you can climb another 5.8, I'm just saying you need to get a lot more leads under your belt before you take that next fall.
GO
|
|
|
|
|
sava6e
May 20, 2005, 6:38 PM
Post #44 of 70
(8693 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Apr 2, 2004
Posts: 214
|
well, being kornteras belayer, and mostly leader as far as trad is concerned, i would like to thank those who are supportive and shame those who think they know whats best for everyone else and ridicul them, rather than provide productive solutions, anywho kortera was about 2-3 feet about his last placement -the one that pulled out, yes a scary sound, which was about 5-6 feet above his last pro which was the one that caught him, from my perspective we was gettin a lil burned out on this route which we top rope all the time- which yes is totally differant than leading trad, anywayz he got burned out and started getting scared cuz he was unsure of his last cam, which i didnt quite know was the situation and he was shacking and all, and i said dont be affraid to fall, and a minute later i see him coming down, as far as the fall is concerned i'd say it was well executed. when i finished the climb i saw where the cam that pulled was, and form what my experience tells me the crack was a little shallowand the cam was on the undercammed side, travis it was a good learning experience and i hope this doesnt affect youin coming to royal arches this summer, i guess we'll jut have to get you out a lil more and build your confidence back up.
cheers sean
|
|
|
|
|
angelaa
May 20, 2005, 8:09 PM
Post #45 of 70
(8693 views)
Shortcut
Registered: May 21, 2003
Posts: 598
|
Thank you
leinsaur and cracklover
I was beginning to think this board had gotten soft!
Why shouldn't we tell this guy what he was doing - wasn't the best thing to be doing? Sure we don't have to be mean about it but at the same time he needs to realize that deciding to
In reply to: fall and take a rest for a second
I am glad a lot of good advice was given
i.e. Down climbing being a trad leaders best friend, etc
but we also should be firm in the fact that he SCREWED up and he is lucky he wasn't more seriously injured.
again - thank you leinsaur and cracklover for telling it like it is :!:
|
|
|
|
|
treehugger
May 20, 2005, 8:58 PM
Post #46 of 70
(8693 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Aug 21, 2003
Posts: 53
|
Some good advice here. I just want to second (third? fourth?) the criticism regarding the intentional fall to take a rest. You need to trust you gear, no doubt, but you shouldn't just launch onto a piece for a rest as though you were a couple feet above a draw in the gym.
downclimbing a bit wouldve been way better.
anyway, yadda yadda, good luck man, be safe.
|
|
|
|
|
graniteboy
May 20, 2005, 9:08 PM
Post #47 of 70
(8693 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Dec 1, 2001
Posts: 1092
|
Wellll...of COURSE your cam pulled out on you. You didn't know whether it was good or not.
You need to start from the beginning. Lead alot of 5.4/5.5 and work up from there. You should also not treat trad climbing like it's gym climbing. Until you're good enough to KNOW when your placements are solid, don't go taking intentional falls on them.
Sounds like you need to find a good old school mentor.
Follow some good climbers for 30 or 50 pitches over the next few weeks while you're in the midst of this learning process. And read, read, read.
|
|
|
|
|
boardline22
May 20, 2005, 10:47 PM
Post #48 of 70
(8693 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Feb 18, 2005
Posts: 652
|
learn how to place gear
|
|
|
|
|
korntera
May 21, 2005, 1:04 AM
Post #49 of 70
(8693 views)
Shortcut
Registered: May 14, 2004
Posts: 422
|
There are so many post's, I am very surprised to get 48 replies from the time i went to bed till today. To answer many of the questions that i saw from the posts, because i only have time to read a few for now, i will read more later... #1 the cam placement was my fault, i knew it was bad but didn't know it was that bad. #2 the rock did not break that i could see. #3 The cam did not fail at all, i test its placement later that day and it was just fine. As savage said it was probably undercammed. I assuemd that it would hold but it was very shallow and this being my second lead every i was just experimenting.
With that all said it was a very good learning experience. I am going to buy more cams tommorow and if it doesn't rain will be leading more trad. I got a comment that maybe sava6e didn't teach me properly but this was me saying I want to lead. I knew that at least one of my cams would hold and the other ones were good placements so don't blame him thinking he is a shitty teacher, he taught me basics but i play around with placements to try and learn them(and i bought a metolius rangefinder cam) to get the general idea of what is a good placement without taking a fall on it to try rip it out. I know cams have different placement angles but it is just something to mess around with so i know if it is decent or terrible. Any other questions just message me.
-Travis
|
|
|
|
|
davidji
May 21, 2005, 1:50 AM
Post #50 of 70
(8732 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jan 30, 2003
Posts: 1776
|
Travis,
Where will go climbing tomorrow? Columns seems like a good place to try out the new gear. Maybe even a good place for your new little-Bro. Is the one you're waiting for the #1 Bro on sale you posted earlier?
|
|
|
|
|
|
