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nouseforaname
Sep 12, 2005, 6:52 PM
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I almost always wear my helmet, specially when taking pictures that Im gonna send to mom & dad. :wink:
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sbwyliedog
Sep 12, 2005, 7:02 PM
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Always wear one for trad and almost always for sport. It wasn't always the case but it only took one time lifting up a flap of someone's scalp. Yuk!
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mr8615
Sep 12, 2005, 7:13 PM
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I'm too cool for helmets, unless on aid or multipitch (or ice).
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paganmonkeyboy
Sep 12, 2005, 7:26 PM
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Always...even at a place that is beaten out regularly I've had rocks fall between me and my partner when pulling the rope, or just at random from the cliffs above. How do you think all those rocks at the base get there, anyway ? Grow out of the ground ? Some, yes, but not all...
I know I've ticked off a few strangers climbing with them and asking them to wear my helmet on lead, since they left theirs at home. Tough nuts. The first time a golfball sized rock hits you after falling 200 feet, or you catch a foot and flip over on that ten footer - you will know exactly Why I am so safety-paranoid. You don't have to wear one, no. But you are a Dumb Ass if you don't, IMHO.
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curt
Sep 12, 2005, 7:27 PM
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In reply to: This topic comes up regularly every couple of weeks or so and here is my take on it. I would never try to talk anyone out of wearing a helmet, and I think it is a smart thing to do, but you need to realize that a helmet does not replace common sense. A lot of the so-called "accidents" that people are bringing up are due more to ignorance than anything else (i.e. getting the rope caught behind your leg). It is more important to be able to assess the situation and not put yourself in a position where the helmet is saving you from a head injury or worse.
Finally, someone posted something in this thread that actually made sense. You get a trophy. :wink:
Curt
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tradmanclimbs
Sep 12, 2005, 7:40 PM
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Of Course we all know that Curt is way TFC to wear a helmet. Blue eyed climber talks about being smarter and more aware to the point that the helmet does not get used. that is just another tired and old often spouted excuse for beeing too cool to wear a helmet. No matter how carefull you are accidents happen. Putting the helmet on your head instead of at the bottom of your pack or in the closet is one of the things that a smart aware climber can do to help stack the odds in their favor. It is certainly not a substitute for brains but it shows a heck of a lot more inteligence than trying to come up with a good excuse for not wearing one :roll: Again I am not telling anyone on this forum to wear a helmet. i am just telling you not to BS me about your reasons for not wearing one.
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olderic
Sep 12, 2005, 7:49 PM
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In reply to: In reply to: This topic comes up regularly every couple of weeks or so and here is my take on it. I would never try to talk anyone out of wearing a helmet, and I think it is a smart thing to do, but you need to realize that a helmet does not replace common sense. A lot of the so-called "accidents" that people are bringing up are due more to ignorance than anything else (i.e. getting the rope caught behind your leg). It is more important to be able to assess the situation and not put yourself in a position where the helmet is saving you from a head injury or worse. Finally, someone posted something in this thread that actually made sense. You get a trophy. :wink: Curt
Josh has my vote for common sense too. Earlier in this thread someone mentioned that they were glad they wore a helmet everytime they wacked their head under an overhang. On those rare (but increasing as I get older and weaker) occasions when I wear a helmet I am constantly knocking it into something - I rarely wack my head when I am not wearing a helmet. Also it seems that with the lid on I am constantly getting pinged my pebbles, ice chunks etc. Without I don't seem to - in the old days we wagged about helmets "attracting rocks" only half jokingly. I think at some subconscious level we are more protective of our noggins when they are not shielded. Look at the history of helmet usage in more main stream sports - weapons in football and so on.
There will always be those like traddie (especially on this PC forum) who think they can sum it up by saying that those who don't wear them are just worried about their image but it's not that simple. There are valid reasons for not wearing then in some circumstances that have nothing to do with image. They are hotter and heavier - heat and weight are handicaps - period.
Waiting for all the bleeding heart responses about not being responsible "for those left behind'", "increased insurance costs", blah blah blah.
I love ranting on this forum....
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euroford
Sep 12, 2005, 7:59 PM
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getting stickers caught in your hair sucks. best to have a helmet get in the way.
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tradmanclimbs
Sep 12, 2005, 8:06 PM
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Old eric. new helmets are so light that you barely know that they are there. Also it is actualy cooler to wear a white helmet in the hot sun than it is to go bareheaded. there were a few guys localy here who allways gave me a hard time about my rock magnet untill they helped treat a woman who got short roped into a roof at rumny. If you don't like helmets that is fine just don't feed me a bunce of crap about how heavy hot and dangerous they are :roll: I am not a bleeding heart take responsibilty for you kids etc wanker. If you don't like them or your too cool for them fine. Just Don't try to tell me its safer to not wear one.
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slacklinejoe
Sep 12, 2005, 8:27 PM
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OldEric,
Modern helmets are nothing like their heavy, clunky, poor fitting and poorly ventelated predecessors. Nowdays they are around 200 grams or so and you'll never feel extra head, just perhaps a little extra sweat against the straps as they collect it.
The ones I picked up for $30 each are so light weight they are like wearing a ball cap and fit so well you'll forget it's on.
Personally, I've been glad I wear helmets on lead and lead belay twice, once when some jackass kid threw a rock down at us while I wasn't looking (golfball sized) and once when my leader took a wicked fall and swung hard into my noggin (so hard, it broke the chin strap connector and sent the helmet flying) leaving me without so much as a bruise.
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enjoimx
Sep 12, 2005, 8:36 PM
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Most of the name-brand climbing helmets Ive seen look pretty crappy compared to my Pro-tec skate helmet, also the pricee of those things is unbelievable.
So yeah, I wear my skate helmet whenever I feel sketched on a route...and always on multipitch.
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olderic
Sep 12, 2005, 8:41 PM
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In reply to: Old eric. new helmets are so light that you barely know that they are there. Also it is actualy cooler to wear a white helmet in the hot sun than it is to go bareheaded. there were a few guys localy here who allways gave me a hard time about my rock magnet untill they helped treat a woman who got short roped into a roof at rumny. If you don't like helmets that is fine just don't feed me a bunce of crap about how heavy hot and dangerous they are :roll: I am not a bleeding heart take responsibilty for you kids etc wanker. If you don't like them or your too cool for them fine. Just Don't try to tell me its safer to not wear one.
I've owned a Petzl Meteor for almost 4 years so i am will aware of the wonders of modern technology. You'll be please to know that I wore it every day on every pitch for a week at El Potrero a few years back. But I still do not like the feel. It is not about image (nothing is going to make me look better anyway). I also hate seat belts in cars and helmets when bicycling (and I used to race (bikes) a fair amount and had quite a collection of bike helmets) and not wearing those definitely equates to an uncool image in most contexts. There is no doubt that 90+% of the time wearing a helmet in climbing situations is safer - heck there is no doubt that wearing a helmet is going to keep you safer in just about any of life's situations. However you can come up with scenerios where a helmet can actually case an injury - just like there are cases where people have been trapped in a burning or sinking car by their seatbelts - unlikely but statistically possible. Likewise it is possible to construct some climbing scenerio where the additional weight/bulk/heat of a helmet could cause an accident that otherwise would not have happened. Here is one for you that I have actually been on both ends of - It's not uncommon to take off helmets, shoes etc on the middle of a hot multipitch climb. Things that are taken off sometimes get dropped - I'd rather be hit by a shoe then a helmet - unlikely but possible - of course I could have just gotten there earlier and not climbed under the party with the dropsies - that is the standard gospel.
On this forum where people get all hung up about a 23 vs 25 KN rating on a biner or the 31 vs 35 gram weight of the same it is intesting that the 250 gram weight of a modern helmet (or twice that for a real trad helmet) isn't a consideration. I'm not convinced that wearing a white helmet being cooler is not just an urban legend - although a popular one - but a wet bandana would be cooler (and lighter - and probably sexier 8^) . The example of the woman being short roped is exactly what Josh and I are talking about - but I expect your response will be "accidents happen". Anyway the "facts" could be argued forvever - one thing I am sure iof though is that my reason for not wearing a helmet (when I don't) is not based on my image.
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cloudbreak
Sep 12, 2005, 8:41 PM
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Registered: Jul 15, 2002
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I actually just ordered one this morning.......after watching my friend split his head open yesterday on a lead fall.
Although it could've been prevented, I took it as a wake up call.
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livinonasandbar
Sep 12, 2005, 8:44 PM
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Registered: May 3, 2003
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A helmet for trad, none for sport...
This made pretty good sense to me until last week when I pumped out on a sport route in Muir Valley (the Red). Took a relatively short fall on bolts... no problem until the rope snuck behind my leg and flipped me ass over tea kettle. Falling head first is an interesting experience, especially the part when you're very consciously waiting for your noggin to get cracked open and the lights go out. Fortunately, I got my arm up (down, actually) behind my head and avoided developing a permanent drool.
That was a first for me in 8 or 9 years of climbing, and it was a rather humbling experience... I was lucky not to have been hurt. So, will I wear a helmet while leading sport routes from now on? Hmmm, I wonder.
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oldsalt
Sep 12, 2005, 8:54 PM
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In reply to: Most of the name-brand climbing helmets Ive seen look pretty crappy compared to my Pro-tec skate helmet, also the pricee of those things is unbelievable. So yeah, I wear my skate helmet whenever I feel sketched on a route...and always on multipitch.
I always wear my ProTec skate helmet outdoors, and when leading in the gym. Skate helmets are designed to take side impacts better than climbing ones, but the manufacturers don't bother with UIAA certification - wrong market.
I have seen several helmets at crags bearing the Independent Trucks iron cross, or other skate logos. Skate on.
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slacklinejoe
Sep 12, 2005, 8:55 PM
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In reply to: I'm not convinced that wearing a white helmet being cooler is not just an urban legend - although a popular one - but a wet bandana would be cooler (and lighter - and probably sexier 8^) .
If nothing else, helmets hold wet bandanas in place pretty well and you can still leave the tail out to keep from a sunburnt neck.. But hey, whatever floats your boat. The last thing I worry about when climbing is fashion or looks, if I did I sure wouldn't be wearing what I usually wear.
Either way, I never try to make any of my climbing partners wear them, but I always offer if I have an extra in the car. Usually after my friends hear the full story behind one of my buddies taking a sport fall in a bad way they usually start asking to borrow my spare helmet.
I guess some people are naturally paranoid and love to jump on gear to feel more secure. Others, I think it takes a situation which makes it personally relevant and others will never accept it due to some unknown personality clash with constriction or anything that makes them feel less free. Dunno, perhaps someone can do a gradudate psy study on it, but I doubt it gets solved in a internet thread.
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rgold
Sep 12, 2005, 9:05 PM
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I climbed for more than 30 years, only wearing a helmet for alpine climbing. I'd say that attitude is still true for at least half the old codgers I climb with. They don't put on their helmets until the richter scale registers 7.5 or more.
As for me, I find age seems to confer a certain humbleness in the face of potential danger. I used to think I was both smarter and faster than falling rocks, and that my cat-like ability to reorient in mid-flight would protect my head in a fall.
I think I'm still a bit smarter than a rock, I know I ain't faster now, even if I was once, and I've had enough experiences to grasp that neither I nor my friends have the reactions of movie superheros.
I make my living with my brains, such as they are. Scrambling them would not be a savvy career move. With helmets as light as they are, it is hard to complain they are seriously in the way.
But let me try anyway. I hate helmets. They are bulky, and make you bump your head on things you'd never bump without them. They get in the way when you're putting slings and things over your head. They are just awful in constricted places. And hot doesn't begin to describe the discomfort of wearing a helmet on a humid summer day in the East . The helmet-eyeglass combination is a sweaty festival of blindness caused by fogged glasses, periodically relieved by the fun-house distortions served up by sweat droplets meandering down the lens surface.
Yuk. And yet, I wear my helmet almost all the time now. Crowds have turned sunny crags into mini Eiger Nordwands (only less predictable). And whether it be wisdom or a more finely tuned sense of the reality of old age, I'm a lot less sure I can keep my noggin out of trouble in a fall.
And so the hateful lid goes on. There is no way I'd ever forget I was wearing it though, and off it comes as soon as I'm done with the route and out of firing range of the crag bottom.
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boulderkid17
Sep 12, 2005, 9:14 PM
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I totally agree with your point of view.
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blueeyedclimber
Sep 12, 2005, 9:18 PM
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In reply to: Admit it , your really just too cool to wear one :lol:
Yes, that is precisely what I am saying.
Although, if you check my profile, you will see me wearing one.....but it is a cool one :wink:
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tradmanclimbs
Sep 12, 2005, 9:47 PM
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I hear that the meteors are pretty hot. I find the Ellios to be pretty darn comfy. also comes in handy for headjams and no hands rests in god awfull squeeze chimnys 8^) old eric dosen't wear a seatbelt :roll: i rest my case with that hopless old fool.
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blouderk2
Sep 12, 2005, 10:06 PM
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I always wear one when I lead. Whether sport or trad. Helmets are a lot cheaper than the medical bill if you bash your head from getting flipped upside down, or hit by a rock.
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olderic
Sep 12, 2005, 10:10 PM
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In reply to: I hear that the meteors are pretty hot. I find the Ellios to be pretty darn comfy. also comes in handy for headjams and no hands rests in god awfull squeeze chimnys 8^) old eric dosen't wear a seatbelt :roll: i rest my case with that hopless old fool.
I didn't say I do not wear one - I said I dont't like to - it was supposed to be evidence that when I chose not to wear a helmet it's not because I am worring aboiut my image - it's because I don't like that confined feeling. I don't like shoes either - see what you can make of that....
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tradmanclimbs
Sep 12, 2005, 10:31 PM
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If you don't like wearing shoes or seatbelts or haveing anything on your head then i can see the logic in that. As long as you don't try to tell me that it is safer. It becomes a case of you just plain don't like it. thats cool except with the seatbelt issue. seatbelts do work. end of story. i personaly like the feeling of the wind in my hair. i don't wear a helmet on my bike unless i am going off road. i ride like a wimp but that is no gaurentee. I just like the freedom of it. I wouldn't even dream of getting on a motyorcycle without a helmet though. That is pretty much gaurenteed suicide! I don't wear one sking which is another unsafe practice. I won't try to argue that it is. I don't have one and on warm spring days i wouldn't wan't to wear one if i did.. I guess that i push myself climbing enough that I just feel naked without my brain bucket.
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dutyje
Sep 12, 2005, 10:51 PM
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In reply to: When leading at the top end of my ability (You know, anything above 5.3+.....) or if I'm in an area where there is any chance of rockfall from above.
Ditto - even the limit :)
I have been known to go without on a route with good rock that I know really, really well -- but generally, it's as the Doc said.
Now, within my (small) circle of climbing partners, we have a rule that the belayer always wears a helmet. Top rope, sport, trad, whatever. If you're belaying from below, you've got a helmet. No exceptions.
Maybe if we weren't a bunch of 30-something noobish weekend warriors, we would be more comfortable without. But at this point, it makes everybody (especially the climber) feel better. And a few of us have actually absorbed (very minor) rockfall on the helmet, which helps to reinforce our rule.
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blueeyedclimber
Sep 12, 2005, 10:53 PM
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tradmanclimbs,
the point of my post was NOT to give excuses to why I don't wear a helmet. I very often do. The point was that having the attitude "accidents happen" is careless and dangerous. You DO NOT get the rope behind your leg....You DO NOT belay/climb under someone in an area known for lose rock, etc. I agree that having a helmet onwill almost always make you safer, but do you walk down the street with one on? You would be safer if you did.
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