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Injuries, Accidents, and New Climbers
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jdouble


Jan 25, 2006, 8:57 PM
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Re: Injuries, Accidents, and New Climbers [In reply to]
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Sounds to me like the kid is facing his own mortallity for the first time. And wrestling with it......

I started climbing in my late 20's, and often wonder what I would have been like climbing in my late teens/early twenties. Answer? Reckless. At that point in my life, I was doing things in other sports I know now to be foolish/crazy. I shudder to imagine if I was on the rock.

Luckily for me, I was never faced with an actual experience that got me thinking of 'the end' during the late teens/early twenties period of my life. It sounds like the kid is facing just this, and I say good thing. IMHO, this is somewhat about inexperienced climbers, and somewhat about young climbers facing the big questions earlier than I believe your average person would.

Just .02 cents more.


markc


Jan 25, 2006, 9:07 PM
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Re: Injuries, Accidents, and New Climbers [In reply to]
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In reply to:
I think that people REALLY need to understand the risks that are involved in climbing. I don't think that I have ever really allowed this to sink in until my accident this summer, and I hope that it doesn't take an accident to wake others up to the fact that YOUR LIFE IS TRULY IN DANGER, EVERY TIME, AND ANY TIME YOU CLIMB.

Every piece of climbing-related merchandise comes with a warning label. If you didn't take that to heart, I don't know what to say. Climbing is dangerous, and the best any of us can hope to do is analyze and minimize these risks. It's why we do partner checks, double-check systems, and educate ourselves as best we can. While we can strive to reduce risk as much as possible, most forms of climbing can't be made perfectly safe.

That being said, blind paranoia is not helpful. The correct reaction to an accident isn't just, "Climbing can kill you!" It should be followed by, "So what went wrong here, and how can we prevent it from happening again?"

In reply to:
Obviously, climbing is a fun, social sport...but maybe it shouldn't be. Climbing is life and death. Would you want a heart surgeon to be chatting with his buddies or drinking a beer while he's operating on you? Then why do we accept the same behaviors in climbing?

If climbing stops being fun, I'll stop climbing. I've considered solo climbing, but I'd honestly miss the social aspect. I also worry about driving to and from the crag by myself when I'm tired, but that's beside the point.

If we're going to work with the heart surgeon analogy, I'd prefer a relaxed surgeon, aware of the risks and confident in his abilities to deal with them. If he likes listening to rock and cracks a joke while he works, I wouldn't know about it. If I did, I can't say I'd mind. I'd prefer that to a surgeon too anxious about the life and death nature of the operation to do his job. Drinking doesn't go with the job. For me, it doesn't go with climbing. YMMV.

In reply to:
I had 4 years of experience prior to my accident. Had I taken this sport more seriously, the accident probably would not have happened. If before stepping back to be lowered 15 feet to the base of the climb, I had thought to myself "gee, what if I'm not on belay, even though I thought I heard him say I was?", I would not have fallen onto my back and been airlifted out of Jtree to spend a night in the hospital, strapped to a backboard and neckbrace for 8 hrs, terrified that I might have done some permanent damage to my back (luckily I didn't).

Sorry to hear about your accident, but you admit you weren't taking climbing seriously, and that you ignored that little voice that has saved many a climber's ass. If you hear that voice, you'd better stop and listen. Check yourself, your system, your partner. If all you've learned from your accident is that climbing isn't safe, it may be time for deeper introspection.


billcoe_


Jan 26, 2006, 5:54 AM
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Re: Injuries, Accidents, and New Climbers [In reply to]
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Collegekid. Your rant is spot on. Us old guys no longer lay it out that way cause we get dissed big-time for being, and sounding like old spuds (which we are of course!). But you speak the truth so I'm quoting the whole thing again for redundancy.

Most new climbers don't know how ignorant they are. I was one of those over 30 years ago and have seen it often. I learned to like to climb with people consious of the risks and the efforts needed to help reduce them. I think mental capability will often overcome the risks (certainly most of them) inherent in what we do. Sadly, the mental part often doesn't get there before the accident part of the story.



Take care and thanks.

Bill

In reply to:
Based on the seeming increase in accidents at Jtree lately, and the fact that I had an accident there just 4 months ago, brings me to write this post (rant):

First, let's establish that climbing is a dangerous sport. Everyone knows that...it's obvious that being high off the ground brings the risk of falling. Any non-climber could tell you that, even a child could tell you it's dangerous to be high from the ground.

But I think that when a person is introduced to climbing by people who are experienced, his/her experienced friends may not convey how terribly dangerous climbing really is. Experienced climbers make it seem so effortless, and seem so fearless, it gives one a false impression that what we're doing is safe.

Climbing is never safe. According to OSHA, even a 4 foot fall can be fatal...anytime you are off the ground on a climb, be it 40 feet above the last placement or reaching for the first bolt on a sport route, your life is in danger. It doesn't take much of an impact to cause brain damage.

I think that people REALLY need to understand the risks that are involved in climbing. I don't think that I have ever really allowed this to sink in until my accident this summer, and I hope that it doesn't take an accident to wake others up to the fact that YOUR LIFE IS TRULY IN DANGER, EVERY TIME, AND ANY TIME YOU CLIMB.

It's very easy to become complacent, especially after a few years under the belt with no serious accidents. Competitiveness to push one's limits can also cloud your vision, so that you forget about the danger aspect of climbing.

All it takes is one slip up, one poorly placed cam, one unbuckled harness, one unlocked biner, one mis-heard belay command, one run-out, to end it all.

If you're lucky like me, that mistake will only cost you a month off of climbing and a few hundred bucks in hospital bills. We all know the cost if you're unlucky.

Obviously, climbing is a fun, social sport...but maybe it shouldn't be. Climbing is life and death. Would you want a heart surgeon to be chatting with his buddies or drinking a beer while he's operating on you? Then why do we accept the same behaviors in climbing?

People on this site may knock bouldering for being a sport for sissies, but maybe I am a sissy. I'm a sissy for thinking that my time off from work should be spent on a relaxing day at the boulders, or at the gym boulder area, instead of on a literally life-and-death trip to go route climbing.

If you say that route climbing is not life-and-death, and that I'm overreacting, well it is life and death and you're not taking it seriously enough. There are some climbers out there, that are so sick strong and good at what they do, it would take a hurricane to knock them off of a route. These people will most likely not fall, simply because they're so damn good. However, most people are not this good, and are vulnerable to stupidity and mistakes with gear. If you think you're not vulnerable, maybe you should look through some of the accident reports on this forum...a large number of accidents happen to people that are highly experienced.

I had 4 years of experience prior to my accident. Had I taken this sport more seriously, the accident probably would not have happened. If before stepping back to be lowered 15 feet to the base of the climb, I had thought to myself "gee, what if I'm not on belay, even though I thought I heard him say I was?", I would not have fallen onto my back and been airlifted out of Jtree to spend a night in the hospital, strapped to a backboard and neckbrace for 8 hrs, terrified that I might have done some permanent damage to my back (luckily I didn't).

The cause of all the "gym climber noobs" getting hurt is not lack of experience (though experience couldn't hurt), it's lack of respect for how truly serious this sport is. The only way to change this is for people to change their attitudes--stop thinking of climbing as "just another sport" or a fun weekend activity.

(end rant)


trenchdigger


Jan 26, 2006, 7:21 AM
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Re: Injuries, Accidents, and New Climbers [In reply to]
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In reply to:
Most new climbers don't know how ignorant they are. I was one of those over 30 years ago and have seen it often. I learned to like to climb with people consious of the risks and the efforts needed to help reduce them. I think mental capability will often overcome the risks (certainly most of them) inherent in what we do. Sadly, the mental part often doesn't get there before the accident part of the story.

With this I agree.

It is the attitude that climbing is inherently and unavoidably extremely dangerous - even to those that have the "mental capability" to overcome risks - that I disagree with. More dangerous than your average weekend activity? Probably... But do all of those that climb on a rope either have a death wish or are clueless of the dangers? I think not. That seems to be what the original post claims and I heartily disagree.


curt


Jan 26, 2006, 7:32 AM
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Re: Injuries, Accidents, and New Climbers [In reply to]
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In reply to:
...Bouldering isnīt a sport. Rock climbing is a sport, bouldering is a type of rockclimbing...

Are you so sure about that? Why isn't "rockclimbing" just a type of climbing too? :wink:

Curt


swede


Jan 26, 2006, 9:45 AM
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Re: Injuries, Accidents, and New Climbers [In reply to]
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I second Billcoe - your rant is spot on on most accounts. Just look how many who is frantically trying to say you are all wrong. Climbing is inherently extremely dangerous. However, the risks can be managed, but due to the heights involved it will always be a risky activity due to the harsh consequences of mistakes, "bad luck" etc.

Regarding risks for experienced climbers the following might be interesting reading: http://www.bluebison.net/yosar/alive.htm.

New people are at risk because they donīt know. Inexperienced people are at risk because they think they know. Experienced people are at risk because they get to used to the risks involved (it has worked 1000 times...).


el_guapo


Jan 26, 2006, 1:23 PM
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Re: Injuries, Accidents, and New Climbers [In reply to]
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Nice Post! I think it's a great idea to take a step back and take note of the gravity of the mistakes that can be made in rock climbing (no pun intended).

I work on high elevation building projects and we have weekly safety meetings which have been proven to significantly reduce accidents.


Partner euroford


Jan 26, 2006, 2:49 PM
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Re: Injuries, Accidents, and New Climbers [In reply to]
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wow, actually a pretty damn good post we have here.

A healthy sense of fear and respect for the unrelenting force of gravity is required for a safe and enjoyable adventure.

i see people getting lax on this in both my profesional (construction work) and personal (climbing) life. in the last year i witnessed both a laborer fall unprotected from 3rd floor to the ground and a young lady rap off the ends of her rope at the crags.

both accidents were 100% avoidable, and luckily both survived with serious and life altering injuries. the laborer thought he was being brave and cool not wearing his harness, and the girl was ignorant. gravity doesn't care how brave you are, and ignorance isn't an excuse.

but this is part of the alure of climbing, determining your level of acceptable risk and managing your skills and technology as factors in mangment of that risk.


catbird_seat


Jan 26, 2006, 11:06 PM
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Re: Injuries, Accidents, and New Climbers [In reply to]
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Euroford, nice contribution. Not everyone seems to understand the spirit of the original post, which I take as a reminder to be ever vigilant. We must keep reminding ourselves and our parnters to be careful and we must do this over and over, no matter how experienced we may be.


gordo


Jan 27, 2006, 12:21 AM
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Glad you're ok.


mtnjohn


Jan 27, 2006, 12:54 AM
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Re: Injuries, Accidents, and New Climbers [In reply to]
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"People on this site may knock bouldering for being a sport for pussies, but maybe I am a pussy. I'm a pussy for thinking that my time off from work should be spent on a relaxing day at the boulders, or at the gym boulder area, instead of on a literally life-and-death trip to go route climbing"

Your right, you're a pussy!
quit whining, stop climbing and shut up!

btw four years is not alot of experience
should be enough not to fall backwards off a cliff but maybe not


duppyc


Jan 31, 2006, 4:55 AM
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Re: Injuries, Accidents, and New Climbers [In reply to]
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Climbing is dangerous, but, you can make it safe for yourself and those around you.

But, you should try XANAX!!

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