Reno,

None of those doctors were in the ambulance with her, so their conjecture is simply that. The damage was done in the car - not in the ambulance. She died as a result of the injuries sustained in the accident.

Rufus:

Try to keep up: The injuries sustained were NOT life-threatening, UNLESS she failed to get proper care in a timely fashion. Spending nearly an hour at the scene of the crash is not proper care, nor is it timely.

That's the point you don't seem to be grasping, and I'm not sure why.

Had she gotten the proper care in a timely fashion, it's quite probable, and almost certain, that the outcome would have been different. That she didn't, and that it wasn't, is a direct reflection on the care provided.

Again, people suffer similar injuries frequently here in the US (and Canada, Japan, Germany, Italy, and most everywhere else.) Why aren't they dying in droves?

And, BTW, Paris doesn't utilize "medics" on the ambulance... The ambulance is staffed with a physician and a nurse.

Rufus:

Try to keep up: The injuries sustained were NOT life-threatening, UNLESS she failed to get proper care in a timely fashion. Spending nearly an hour at the scene of the crash is not proper care, nor is it timely.

That's the point you don't seem to be grasping, and I'm not sure why.

Had she gotten the proper care in a timely fashion, it's quite probable, and almost certain, that the outcome would have been different. That she didn't, and that it wasn't, is a direct reflection on the care provided.

Again, people suffer similar injuries frequently here in the US (and Canada, Japan, Germany, Italy, and most everywhere else.) Why aren't they dying in droves?

And, BTW, Paris doesn't utilize "medics" on the ambulance... The ambulance is staffed with a physician and a nurse.

You guys are arguing about something in terms of causality, trying to reduce everything to one efficient "cause."

Next--the injuries. Certainly "caused" by the wreck. That is, if you removed the wreck from the equation, you don't get any injuries. Hence, the wreck is the efficient cause of the injuries.

Immediate treatment might have saved her from dying, but the lack of said treatment did not "kill" her, her injuries killed her.

Exactly my point, Rufus. That was the failure of the system, and that's why she died.

Tell me, wise one: If having a chauffeur is the cause of death, then why do so many people get driven by chauffeurs every day and they don't die?

Further, if it was the injury she sustained (and you do know what that injury... the specific injury that caused the death... is, don't you?) then why do people suffer the same (or nearly the same) injury frequently here in the US and don't die?

That case was the topic of discussion among many trauma surgeons in various venues for years... still is a topic, actually. TO A MAN, they all agree: The prehospital care was a failure and her death is directly attributed to that care.

But you and Bob keep stroking each other and tell yourselves how right you are if it makes you feel better.

Reno, can you honestly state for fact that P Di would have survived her injuries in the US?

Are you fully aware of all of her injuries and complications arising from those injuries and all of the circumstances involved in her rescue?

Can you provide some sort of statistic indicating that people survive car crashes in the US at a greater rate than in France.

You should be well aware of the difficulty in making assessments of a medical teams performance based only on NeWS reports and speculation.

You describe the situation as if P Di had a small cut on her knee and the bumbling inspector Clouseau medics let her bleed out.

Also, since France has MDs in ambulances, was the Princess not being treated by a doctor the whole hour she was in the ambulance? No doubt these services were a far cry from a trauma ward

I do wonder to what extent P Di's death might have been avoided if swift medical services would have been forthcoming. After all, they can almost sew a man's head back on these days...

Didn't see have Cardiac Arrest when being removed from the car?


Was there a doctor on the scene two minutes after the crash?

I would be interested in seeing those comparative survival rate stats. To tell you the truth I am a bit skeptical that such statistics are available, seems there would be far too many variables.

But Rufus won't believe that, cause it would mean that he'd have to admit he was wrong. And that wouldn't be cricket, you know.

I can't fault you for veering my point off course, as I have been the perpetrator of such tactics in nearly every thread I´ve participated in.

So correct me if I´m wrong, but I gather from your bit.... conversation... that:

The car crash is what killed P Diana.

The medics dicking around for an hour instead of getting to an ER is what failed to save her.


Yay or nay?

I don't doubt that the on-board doctor and nurse made errors in their attempt to save her. That, as I said earlier, is the orange. The fact remains, however, that she died as a direct result of injuries sustained in the crash of the automobile, which was being commandeered by the impaired chauffeur. That point - per se - was the impetus for my original comment.

It was a bad analogy. Princess Di was trying to evade a harassing paparazzi. Considering the constant attention she was given, her only reasonable option was to have a driver. Kennedy was just "out for a drive". He wasn't being persued or harassed by anyone.

Using the Princess Di tragedy in an effort dimish Kennedy's situation speaks more about your character than any thing else.

Your world must be a very ugly place to you, Thorne, if you consider everything that you do not understand to be bad.

What don't I understand? That you seem to think your entitled to say offensive things and then act completely surprised when there's a backlash?

I'm quite sure that you're offended by my saying that Di's death was a direct result of the accident.

You should work on your reading comprehension.

And I'll ask again - What is it (specific to my posts in this thread) that I don't understand?

Stop trolling. I know that you're not that clueless.