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piton
Mar 25, 2004, 3:14 PM
Post #26 of 32
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Registered: Nov 11, 2002
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question for you all:
Is it bad to do a 60m jug or any jugging on a dynamic rope? is it also better to jug on a static line?
thanks
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climbersoze
Mar 25, 2004, 3:36 PM
Post #27 of 32
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Registered: Dec 31, 2003
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In reply to: The original post completely misses the most important aspect of jugging when cleaning pitches: when you clean a traverse or a penji, you take the lower jug off the rope to move around the traversing line or penji. And then you are on ONE jug. Bad. Really bad. If the line you are cleaining wanders, use a soft 6mm perlon loop to put a prussik or kleimhest knot above the top jug, and clip it into the locker that secures that top jug to your harness. As you slide the top jug, it will push the prussik up seamlessly. That way, you always have two links on the rope, even when you pull the lower jug off to move around a piece. And tie into the end of the rope, and tie fig-8's and clip them to your harness with a bomber locker. This is not rocket science. It is derived from reading about accidents that have happened, and what could have prevented them.
Not focusing on traverses or pendulums just yet... just trying to get the vert down right now... but good info, man.
Also, where you mentioned the prusik backup... that is how I had my prusik (above the top ascender so I could push it up the rope as I go).
On a side note... this is all completely awesome info and great links. Thanks guys for ponying up the intel. Gonna do some practice this weekend :)
P.S. IMO (unexperienced opinion, I will add) it would be best to jug static vs. dynamic - dynamic would be bouncy as hell, and I am guessing you could saw the rope a lot quicker on anything besides a static line. comments?
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junnos
Mar 25, 2004, 3:49 PM
Post #28 of 32
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Registered: Sep 18, 2003
Posts: 217
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Hey Piton,
No it is not bad to do a 60m jug on a dynamic rope. However, it would be prefered to do it on static lines.
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timpanogos
Mar 25, 2004, 4:19 PM
Post #29 of 32
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Registered: May 17, 2002
Posts: 935
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When you clean a pitch, you are going to be on dynamic - might as well get use to this, then if/when you get the lux of a static fixed - you'll appreciate it.
But you know - it's one of those feelings - something about the first couple of pulls to approach body weight, stumbling, bumbling around - that's just part of the fun.
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junnos
Mar 25, 2004, 4:37 PM
Post #30 of 32
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Registered: Sep 18, 2003
Posts: 217
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It's not gonna snap..... :shock:
It's not gonna snap..... :shock:
It's not gonna snap..... :shock:
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stuckintexas
Mar 25, 2004, 4:56 PM
Post #31 of 32
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Registered: Nov 11, 2003
Posts: 29
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If you want to try the frog system but don't want to buy a whole bunch of stuff, it is pretty easy to improvise several of the components. I was able to make a nice replacement for the torse harness with a double-length sling, a foot loop from some webbing, etc. You can even use a bachmann knot for the upper ascender, though it obviously won't be as efficient. And I actually use a petzl 'basic' ascender instead of the croll, because I was able to get it quite cheap (thanks Carl).
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bflank
Mar 25, 2004, 5:26 PM
Post #32 of 32
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Registered: Jul 11, 2003
Posts: 48
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I was a caver before I became a climber, so ascending 90M entrance pits was fairly routine.
The system you describe of two hand ascenders is bound to be akward as heck because you don't have anything holding your upper body into the line. You'll get very tired very fast with this kind of arrangement. Add a chest roller and you'll find you can ascend fairly efficiently - very similar to a Mitchell system. This is probably not the best system to learn on however. Check out www.onrope1.com/PDFs/Ropewalker_systems.pdf for illustrations.
Someone else mentioned the frog system. I can't say enough good things about the frog for beginners and for versatility. It's really easy to pass a knot or transfer to another line and also easy to come over the edge on top. It is however somewhat tiring for really long climbs. Adding a foot ascender like the Petzl Tibloc allows more efficiency but the technique takes practise to make smooth. Check out www.onrope1.com/PDFs/Sit_Stand_Systems.pdf for illustrations of frog climbing.
As to the difficulty in starting out, several people mentioned ways to tension the rope. My favorite is to have a teammate hold tension until I have 10' or so hanging down, then the weight of the rope takes over. That works unless you're the last one out. In that case I sometimes tie my pack to the bottom of the rope, let it hold tension, and pull it up once I'm on top.
A caver technique to practice ascending is to put a pulley aloft - for instance in your tree. Lead the rope over the pulley to a solid descender - we normally use a cavers rack. Then a partner controls the payout of the line as you climb, allowing you to climb most of the length of the rope while staying fairly close to the ground. When you're ready to quit your partner simply lowers you.
B. Flank
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