Mar 21, 2007, 11:16 PM
Post #52 of 167
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Re: [kevinheiss] Do you think female climbers are as good as males?
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i think it boils down to the type of route are we talking about. my husband out-climbs me on overhanging-need-the-gorilla-reach-to-make-the-move routes, but i shine on the balancey-crimpy-trust-my-feet stuff. that being said does it matter that i have to make 2-3 more moves on the same route he makes one or that he has to learn to trust his feet more. no, we're not competing, we're out having a great time enjoying each other's company sharing a fun/hard summit and understanding what each other had to do to get there. that's what i find inherently fun about this world. we're all very different in what we're good at...viva la differances!!!!!!!!!!!!! it makes it great for swinging leads
Mar 21, 2007, 11:30 PM
Post #53 of 167
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Re: [deschamps1000] Do you think female climbers are as good as males?
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deschamps1000 wrote:
Can someone please explain to me how you could answer "yes" to the poll? How many women have climbed 14d? One. Men? a dozen?
I am not sexist, I just think it is okay to acknowledge that males and females are better at different things.
the answer lies in how you define "are as good as". Your definition is by grade level. Others may be by style, or beauty, other qualifiers..." maybe we can open a more meaningful thread to vote on the definition of "as good as"...
Mar 21, 2007, 11:57 PM
Post #54 of 167
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Re: [crimpandgo] Do you think female climbers are as good as males?
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Can someone please explain to me how you could answer "yes" to the poll? How many women have climbed 14d? One. Men? a dozen?
...which illustrates that woman are as good as men. The fact that there may be more men climbing at elite levels is another matter, with possibly quite different explanations unrelated to ability or potential.
(This post was edited by rgold on Mar 22, 2007, 12:00 AM)
Mar 22, 2007, 12:17 AM
Post #55 of 167
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Re: [rgold] Do you think female climbers are as good as males?
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I'll throw this out there:
I (female), used to top out around 5.9 - I was having fun so I didn't see the need to try harder things. I climbed with a guy who was toping out around mid 5.10 at the same time. He climbed ugly as all hell. I climbed more gracefully at a lower grade. At the time I considered that he was a better climber.
Then I tried harder stuff. Now I can usually onsight or at least red point mid 5.10. So, i turned out to be a better climber than this guy. But I could very easily have not realized that potential if I didn't decide that pushing the grades would bring more enjoyment and make me a stronger climber.
So who's the better climber? Me a few years ago climbing pretty @ 5.9, or the dude who flailed his way up stuff a half grade harder?
Not a rhetorical question. I'm curious to hear thoughts.
Mar 22, 2007, 12:42 AM
Post #56 of 167
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Re: [acherry] Do you think female climbers are as good as males?
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Good point about 'as good as'
Lets remember the mental aspect of ascending rock and ice, is what driving us or stops us. Physical fitness is just a side effect. Men on average have more strength, and it seems women have better balance. Tho there are always balancy men, and strong women. So i'd say there is no answer to the OP in the way it was phrased. Simply more men climb hard, that may not qualify as 'as good as'. There are always* exceptions. Any human has the potential to repeat the climb of another in equal style.
Mar 22, 2007, 1:22 AM
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Re: [suzie_cuzie] Do you think female climbers are as good as males?
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I cannot believe that 2/3 0f the people who voted believe females are better than males. There are countless male 14 climbers both trad and sport and about ten females who redpoint 14. Even if you were to factor in male to female ratios, men would still outperform women. Unless there are pockets of burly women out there I'm sticking to my guns. Blaa blaa blaa...women have better form, so what, just because a group happen to start off with good technique does not mean that they will make into the elite levels. Side note: I did some research which looked at why the climbing community is male dominated. Short and sweet...adolescents males are encouraged somewhat to take risks where female adolescents are sheltered from them. Males ARE in inherently stronger climbers. Males build more tendon and muscle faster than women. I dont care what anybody says about technique, you absolutely need power to get you through routes in the 13b and up range.
Mar 22, 2007, 2:15 AM
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Re: [suzie_cuzie] Do you think female climbers are as good as males?
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When learning how to climb I was always told to watch female climbers because they know how to use their lower bodies better than men. When learning how to climb, this was an important lesson because attempting to muscle my way up with my arms was not only incredibly tiring but also very poor technique.
In the end, I think it has more to do with technique than it does sheer strength.
Mar 22, 2007, 4:20 AM
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Re: [curt] Do you think female climbers are as good as males?
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I love this thread. Really. Keeping it honest; I like the body I have molded because of climbing, but when my shirt comes off, its because I sweat and it keeps me cool. To assume there is an ego determining whether or not my shirt comes off sounds ridiculous to me. I feel like it acknowledges certain broken subject-object relationships between men and women. Ones that can only be established by comparison and internalized negations, just like the OP poll does. I don't think anyone really needs to validate the question and/or answer. I wonder if there are any female sociologists/feminists out there that wanna get in here clear up some discussion issues and maybe 'man up' to some real facts that have already been mentioned.
Mar 22, 2007, 4:27 AM
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Re: [bennydh] Do you think female climbers are as good as males?
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bennydh wrote:
I love this thread. Really. Keeping it honest; I like the body I have molded because of climbing, but when my shirt comes off, its because I sweat and it keeps me cool. To assume there is an ego determining whether or not my shirt comes off sounds ridiculous to me. I feel like it acknowledges certain broken subject-object relationships between men and women. Ones that can only be established by comparison and internalized negations, just like the OP poll does. I don't think anyone really needs to validate the question and/or answer. I wonder if there are any female sociologists/feminists out there that wanna get in here clear up some discussion issues and maybe 'man up' to some real facts that have already been mentioned.
Mar 22, 2007, 5:32 AM
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Re: [miavzero] Do you think female climbers are as good as males?
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Oh ya, I'm not talking about outliers such as Sharma, Caldwell, Lauren, etc. Without some power in your climbing, your options are severely limited in the 12+ arena. Come on, seriously, 13b and you cant pull a few campus moves. Did this Megan person aid these routes?
(This post was edited by rock_junkie on Mar 22, 2007, 5:47 AM)
Mar 22, 2007, 5:51 AM
Post #68 of 167
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Re: [rock_junkie] Do you think female climbers are as good as males?
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Well, quite frankly I don't know, perhaps there are more elite male climbers because there are more male climbers overall, perhaps not, but anyway, i'd like to point out something I found rather interesting. I am a MALE, yet...
1. When I started climbing, I had LESS muscle than girls that were also starting 2. I do NOT rely on upper-body strength as much as lower body technique. I met this guy, who on his first lesson was climbing the 45 degree overhang with only his hands, and even if I can't do more than 3 moves with only my hands, I climb better than him. 3. Footwork is EXTREMELY important to me
From this, and many other factors I have concluded my style is different from that of other males, and somewhat more like a female's. This means that there can be no absolute generalization or grouping according to gender.
Mar 22, 2007, 12:49 PM
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Re: [rock_junkie] Do you think female climbers are as good as males?
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rock_junkie wrote:
Oh ya, I'm not talking about outliers such as Sharma, Caldwell, Lauren, etc. Without some power in your climbing, your options are severely limited in the 12+ arena. Come on, seriously, 13b and you cant pull a few campus moves. Did this Megan person aid these routes?
The question can't be answered without looking at the outliers. Perhaps if it had been phrased, "Do you think female climbers overall are as good as males?" then we could ignore them.
Mar 22, 2007, 1:42 PM
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Re: [themadmilkman] Do you think female climbers are as good as males?
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If we look at the next generation, we see floods of young girls getting into climbing. I bet the people that are saying no way might change their tune in another 10-20 years. There still might be more men at the elite level then women but that doesn't matter. Women have had to stand up to this comparison ever since Adam and Eve (if you believe in that).
I think there are a lot more men that are pushed by the competiveness to push the grades. With all of the women that I climb with, that is not what drives them. Sure they want to get better and climb the next grade, but it doesn't define them. Men, I think just succumb to that a little easier. I think the better question is which sex is more insecure?
Mar 22, 2007, 2:13 PM
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Re: [kevinheiss] Do you think female climbers are as good as males?
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I just figure its a thing of there is more men that are climbing so you are more likely to tap into those that are "genetically" gifted. As more and more women get into climbing there will be more and more women like Josune and Lynn, and more and more men getting their ego tweaked.
Personally, I know a lot of women who are fairly decent rock climbers. Shell started trad climbing (ok I should say also started to lead) at 5.10c. Another one I know in her second or third year of leading cracks was leading 5.11d. Actually , I'd like to see more women follow in their footsteps.
Mar 22, 2007, 4:03 PM
Post #73 of 167
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Re: [deschamps1000] Do you think female climbers are as good as males?
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I think a lot of this discussion is a bit diluted/deluded by PC pleasantries. The question is a question of means (averages), not the ends of the distributions (elites). In other words, does the average female climber climb as good (defined by the OP as hard grades) as the average male climber. Most of the responses seem to dance around biological and sociological realities as well as ignore evidence that provides a simple concrete answer to the question as the OP has defined it.
Mar 22, 2007, 4:25 PM
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Re: [sidepull] Do you think female climbers are as good as males?
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sidepull wrote:
I think a lot of this discussion is a bit diluted/deluded by PC pleasantries. The question is a question of means (averages), not the ends of the distributions (elites). In other words, does the average female climber climb as good (defined by the OP as hard grades) as the average male climber. Most of the responses seem to dance around biological and sociological realities as well as ignore evidence that provides a simple concrete answer to the question as the OP has defined it.
Well, if you phrase it that way.... your average female climber climbs as hard as your average male climber IMHO. At the elite end of the scale, the hardest routes are still being pulled by male climbers, though even there it's probably only 4 or 5 people down until you hit the top female. (unlike say sprinting where the differences between males and females are HUUUUGE!)
Mar 22, 2007, 5:26 PM
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Re: [anykineclimb] Do you think female climbers are as good as males?
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anykineclimb wrote:
I know one thing for sure.
There will ALWAYS be a woman climbing stonger than me.
does it matter? Do I care??
haha... Yep...that is totally true for me too...most climber chicks I know out-climb me.
To the OP....NO...the best women do not climb harder than the best men... please tell me you knew that and that you are just a troll.
Women are amazing athletes! however, top women are not going to be stronger, faster, and better than top men as far as climbing goes. It just isn't in the genetic makeup.
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