Sometimes I clip all my draws, sport, trad and even my bouldering draws, together end to end as a chain. Then I wrap that chain around my waist.

As I climb I simply take the end draw off the chain and clip it to the piece.

Now sometimes the next draw isn't suitable for the placement, in which case I TOSS the useless sonofabitch and peel off the next one, like terlit paper.

DMT

Don't be fooled. I understand many things. What I enjoy most about this place is that there's lots of people who share a lot of views here. I know how I'm racked and I know why. I hand tied all my slings back when that was what you did. They've been good too. I've had the same thoughts as many about sewing their own runners, bartacks and other considerations.

But the discussions here are nothing short of marvelous. So far petsfed gets it. But I'm enjoying the opinions while strengthening my own.

Just because this guy did it differently doesn't make him wrong. He's been climbing trad for 30 years can you say that? I cannot.

I had some fascinating conversations with this guy and found out he was an an author of a few books on the sport in general so don't be too judgmental. He enjoys getting a rise out of people.

Now I'll drop my secret. He explained that sometimes he will rack up that way to lure people into conversation. He loves to talk to people. He feels that fundamentally there's nothing wrong with his setup other than others who treat climbing like religion will blanch at it.

This guy has climbed lots of stuff. Lots of it. He knows Leuben well knew him and many others of note. Can you say that you have swung axes with Will Gadd? He did. He's either lying or he's got a fun take on life. He seemed to knew his stuff well.

:]

One thing I DON'T do is use my sport draws for trad climbing. All of the bolt end biners have burs in the metal from falling all the time. I don't want those biners on my cam slings, shoulder slings, or my rope. Some people probably say it's overkill but that's just my way.

To the OP - sounds like you would have been a sucker for snake-oil salesmen back in the day. Did this guy have a glint in his eye that seemed irresistable? His system obviously sucks. Don't listen to the rest of us - even he told you he just does it just for yuks. But nevertheless, you like it.
GO

As long as we have another thread about how to rack gear, maybe I can get some opinions.

I've always racked w/ one cam per biner, 2 biners per set of nuts, and 2 per tricams. My standard rack consists of doubles from BD.3 - 2, each matched to metolius of a comparable size and a single #3 BD. For draws I carry about 12- 60cm and 3 - 120cm dyneema style draws, which is adequate for my areas in CO and for setting up belays. This made my harness pretty full, but I never thought of changing till I saw someone rack 2 cams per biner.

1st thought was the potential for dropping 2 cams, but I tried it and it made racking so more efficient. My harness was clean, lighter and it also gave me a bunch of biners back.

So what are the general thoughts on this? I though about offsetting the sizes clipped together to avoid dropping 2 of the same cams, but that seems too confusing. I know it's not reinventing the wheel, but I was just curious what experiences others have had.

As long as we have another thread about how to rack gear, maybe I can get some opinions.

I've always racked w/ one cam per biner, 2 biners per set of nuts, and 2 per tricams. My standard rack consists of doubles from BD.3 - 2, each matched to metolius of a comparable size and a single #3 BD. For draws I carry about 12- 60cm and 3 - 120cm dyneema style draws, which is adequate for my areas in CO and for setting up belays. This made my harness pretty full, but I never thought of changing till I saw someone rack 2 cams per biner.

1st thought was the potential for dropping 2 cams, but I tried it and it made racking so more efficient. My harness was clean, lighter and it also gave me a bunch of biners back.

So what are the general thoughts on this? I though about offsetting the sizes clipped together to avoid dropping 2 of the same cams, but that seems too confusing. I know it's not reinventing the wheel, but I was just curious what experiences others have had.

Mainly because and I'll confess I was seriously interested in the technical reasons why it would make so many of you blanch.

How about the fact that his rack is all full of dogbones. When I'm carrying a larger rack, it already takes up enough space and is bulky. If I added a dogbone for every other piece, it would be ridiculous. Maybe if you always carry a slim rack of 10 pieces, this is okay, but for me, forget it.

What I really didn't like was that it just wasn't as clean. It's so much easier to rack the way everyone else does.... To me there was a lot of weight off the gear sling with a full draw on it then extending out to the rope. It was in essence a full QD in the system that could be eliminated

Next, there's the fact that of all the extension options (no extension, extend with a tripled sling, extend with a full length sling, extend with a long sling, extend with a sport draw), the last one is the one I'd choose the least.

I only had about a dozen times out of 100's of placements where a QD would have been fine.

there's the fact that, even if you *did* want a dogbone on your gear (which I never want), half the time you'd have to add one, because you have two pieces per draw. So when you place the first one, you always need to grab a draw from somewhere else.

I climbed about ten feet up a crack and tied off then I placed a cam, went 8 more feet and placed a tri-cam and about 6 feet I ran out of good crack and had to place a 10 stopper. I clipped the stopper with a 12" sling. The placement was bomber and I knew I could have clipped it with rebar and it wouldn't have gone anywhere. Both the tri-cam and cam were clipped with a standard length QD and the cam with an extended length QD. I then moved above the pieces and did all sorts of stuff to the rope. Nothing happened. No "struck by lightning" and no "URGNADIE" and no creep, crawl, walk in the line. So I went up higher and placed another stopper that was not "bomber" it could have been dislodged maybe. I did the same exercise and had the same results. So I went off to the far right to cause some serious rope drag. I hauled up tons of rope through the system (I was TR on another rope doing the Silent Partner thing.) I went down and checked each placement and didn't see anything to make me tremble in terror and fear. I did not fall on any of it though. I probably ought to have to make the test thorough.

Yeah that's kinda what I figured...just wondering if there were any " I dropped two #2's and died" stories...

It's just so much nicer not to have the clusterf*ck on my harness!!

Now I'll drop my secret. He explained that sometimes he will rack up that way to lure people into conversation. He loves to talk to people. He feels that fundamentally there's nothing wrong with his setup other than others who treat climbing like religion will blanch at it. I'm a troll.

OMG... is that... an ALBUM?

Where ever did you find that, a museum?

DMT

OMG... is that... an ALBUM?

Where ever did you find that, a museum?

DMT

On the shelf, next to my Turntable.

qwert

Exactly what hafilax said above ^^^

My racking system has little to do with avoiding dropping gear, and more to do with getting the piece I need as quickly as possible, independent of the body position I'm in, and then being able to move on.


What's your rack look like? If you're carrying more than eight cams, some amount of cluster-fuckage is inevitable. Sometimes light is right. Sometimes you need the whole nine yards. Only experience will help you know which is which, and even so, sometimes you guess wrong, which is always a bummer. Til then, better err on the side of too much gear.

GO

Is that a new piece of protection? Or like one of those hauling swivels?

There are worse things than playing with a nice rack!

LS, I definitely encourage you to play with your rack. I mean, it's probably not something you need to do every day. But as a means of discovering what you like and what you don't, it's invaluable. I mean, it can make the whole experience so much more satisfying when you can effortlessly go to the right place at the right time.

Sometimes it might even make the difference in whether you summit or plummet!

Um... what were we talking about again?

Cheers anyway!

G

Just because this guy did it differently doesn't make him wrong. He's been climbing trad for 30 years can you say that? I cannot.

And climbing for 30 years doesn't make someone right either. Time doesn't cure stupidity.

I'm not saying the guy is right or wrong, just criticizing the notion that 30 years of climbing automatically makes someone right about something.

Dave