Ceebo... your points are vaild and noted. However, as a coach and prior gym owner, I am personally more interested in sticking to a discussion more on topic with the original question.... "Will this affect the climbing community?"

This is a human made society. People are born like a blank canvas, what ever they amount to and the morals they hold are a result of many different influences over their life. Parenting, peers, tv, etc etc etc.

The children around this man and girl will be effected by it. I sincerely hope they understand what went on here is wrong. I hope they do not grow up to think that this kind of thing was acceptable, for when they become adults..... ''oh, well when i was a teen.. 3 of my friends fucked their teachers''. The fact that the police is involved does not bare much weight to a child. Most of the stuff kids get up to is illegal anyway.. they can barely differentiate between what is right and what is wrong, only ''what is fun'' and what gives them acceptance among their peers.

Nothing i have written here is absurd. We are coming to the point of a huge backlash in what has been at least 3 generations of piss poor parenting. The boundarys of what is acceptable in society keep getting pushed further and further back.. rebellious children go to a even greater measure to be rebellious. For example.. beating a old disabled man to a fucking pulp.. then posting it on youtube.

We allow children to go off in large gangs unmonitored, they are left to their own devises and are able to make their own ''society'' within a society. All of these things influence future generations, slowly but surely we are in a state of decline.

It was only 2 days ago while at work that i had to send a child and mother out of the building. He was 9 years old and was calling his mother every single swear word under the sun. I had to bite my lip.. but in my mind i was thinking FFS LADY DISCIPLINE YOUR CHILD. She did not even attempt to say nothing.. she was scared of her own damn kid.

If you think all of these kinds of behaviours and so forth are not effecting are society as a whole then you have been hiding away on the side of some rock for too long. Every action has a reaction as they say. But in a complex human setting where actions can be witnessed by multiple people.. every single action can have a multitude of reactions. Depends how each individual interpretate and deals with it...

The human animal is still just that, an animal. And we are most certainly not more violent or sexualised now than in our past.

This is a human made society. People are born like a blank canvas,

Was that given freedom worth the trade off?.. in that any nut case can go right now to a web site and learn how to make a BOMB from house hold materials?..

[SNIP]

An ever growing mountain of research in the various branches of psychology do not support the notion that people are ever blank slates.

So from that, we can only draw the conclusion that this man was born to do this?.. and it was a unavoidable fate?. I do not for a single second believe that.

I may agree that some people appear to be born pure evil.. but it is hard to use that as fact, since a majority of them came from extremely messed up child hoods. Serial killers are a prime example.

''Many serial killers have faced similar problems in their childhood development. Hickey's Trauma Control Model explains how early childhood trauma can set the child up for deviant behavior in adulthood. The child's environment (either their parents or society) is the dominant factor in whether or not the child's behavior escalates into homicidal activity.''

Their are also allot of strange cases were people completely change over a small period of time. For example, allot of straight men and women have went to jail but came out prison gay. Maybe they were gay all along?.. or maybe they just ''adapted'' to the new social setting.

If they were gay all along then that clearly shows people have the ability to abide by what they perceive as socially acceptable (so they did not come out on the outside in fear of ridicule).

If they were not gay.. then that proves that people are able to make quite drastic changes in relatively short amounts of time.

Does the direction humanity is taking not at all interest or concern you?.

Do you have children?.

And with that very knowledge we attempted to set rules and social behavioural expectations to improve. But at some point.. we fucked up and decided to become liberal to that effort.

The internet itself is a perfect example. I remember outrage from many organisations that every day people were given the power to put up what the hell they wanted on the internet.. in the name of ''freedom'' and expression.

Was that given freedom worth the trade off?.. in that any nut case can go right now to a web site and learn how to make a BOMB from house hold materials?..

I find certain aspects of it very interesting but not at all concerning. As a matter of fact, I am very pleased with the longterm changes in "cultural attitudes" towards to sex and sexuality here in America. We still have a long way to go, but we will get there eventually.



Now why would I go and do a silly thing like that?

It is not whether we are concerned about the direction of humanity but that we are not interested in discussing it in its entirety.

Personally, I was interested in hearing from coaches, friends, gym owners, etc. about the topic at hand. That topic is not how our entire world and humanity itself are falling apart but how one small part of an even smaller world (our world as coaches & gym owners & climbers) has been affected or will forever be changed due to Mike's actions.

Do you have children?.

Do you?

My intuition says no, or that child is less than 1 year old. Your ideas about child rearing are sophomoric at best.

It is not whether we are concerned about the direction of humanity but that we are not interested in discussing it in its entirety.

Personally, I was interested in hearing from coaches, friends, gym owners, etc. about the topic at hand. That topic is not how our entire world and humanity itself are falling apart but how one small part of an even smaller world (our world as coaches & gym owners & climbers) has been affected or will forever be changed due to Mike's actions.

Ceebo, please stop posting to this discussion. You are doing the equivalent of the guy who brings up Satan and judgement day when all I wanted to talk about was the Gulf Spill.

You are completely and totally off topic, unquestionably distracting, and I'm getting the impression that you really really liked "The Professional".

Stop it.

While your intuition may be correct, there is not necessarily a link between having kids and having good ideas on child rearing.

Shit, I just realized I'm a coward.

I read your blog

Their are also allot of strange cases were people completely change over a small period of time. For example, allot of straight men and women have went to jail but came out prison gay. Maybe they were gay all along?.. or maybe they just ''adapted'' to the new social setting.

If they were gay all along then that clearly shows people have the ability to abide by what they perceive as socially acceptable (so they did not come out on the outside in fear of ridicule).

If they were not gay.. then that proves that people are able to make quite drastic changes in relatively short amounts of time.

A couple points here. Screening is actually a pretty weak tool. Basically you're just learning if somebody has a criminal record, arrest record etc. There are plenty of evil people out there doing evil stuff that haven't been caught (yet) and so have a no record. The best protection against that stuff is for the organization to make absolutely 100% sure that they're doing something along the lines of the Scouts Youth Protection practices - always 2 adults present with 1 kid, 2 kids with 1 adult, etc etc. As long somebody can engineer a situation where 2 people can be left alone this stuff can happen.