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gretchino
Jun 23, 2003, 2:45 PM
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In reply to: Is this thread a f_cking joke? If you need to ask fellow alcoholics for reassurance, then its obviously not OK.
I am in agreeance with Redpoint73. Would you people actually read what you're saying? Getting stoned and drunk while climbing?! Knowing your limits?! I don't care if you do know your 'limits', this is just plain rediculous and stupid....take your death wish somewhere else
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mr.shortround
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Jun 23, 2003, 2:51 PM
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I see nothing wrong with a drink or two while climbing. Personally I'll only have 1 drink before I climb, and even then it must be top rope or sport climbs. (then again, trad still scares the crap outa me) Ironically I've found that I can actually climb better with a drink in me, it helps me to calm my nerves. (I'm also terrified of heights) I say if you AND YOUR PARTNER are comfortable with having a drink before climbing, go for it. The risk is yours to take.
The exception to this is bouldering. I say bring on all the booze you want. As far as spotting goes, the amount of spotting you need while sober is alot higher than when drunk. The more drinks you have, the crappier you will climb. I find that as I get more and more intoxicated I will move to vertical, then to slab problems. By the time you are really affected, you will only be climbing about 3 feet off the ground, and unless you wandered onto a v0 with a really crappy landing, you will be fine.
just my .02
-Stu
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dingus
Jun 23, 2003, 2:53 PM
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In reply to: vtposer and others who admit to climbing blitzed, you're just doing yourself out of potential partners here, you realize this, right?
So are all you Puritans. You do realize this, right?
(sheesh! like HE wanted to climb with YOU. Right! LOL!)
DMT
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dingus
Jun 23, 2003, 2:55 PM
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In reply to: we don't have a responsibility to each other?
No. I have no responsibility for you, none whatsoever. Nor will I accept any. That's the world right there. Better get used to it.
DMT
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dingus
Jun 23, 2003, 2:59 PM
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Me and a few good friends went deep into the wilderness to attempt an FA. We were armed with every known piece of climbing equipment, and even a few top secret gadgets being deployed for the first time. We had a well stocked base camp with a folding table, lawn chairs and fresh meat cooked over a warm fire. Mmmmm. We also freighted in about 6 cases of beer, 2 quarts of Ta-Killya and a Mini-keg. At first we worried we'd layed in too much alcohol. I mean, you can't get much climbing done on a hang over, right?
Well, all too soon we worried we hadn't brought nearly enough.
Know what I mean?
DMT
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crack_head
Jun 23, 2003, 4:17 PM
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i feel like i do everything better after 3-4 especially speaking french, and talking to girls hahahaha, i have yet to try it while climbing though i dunno about that
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alpinestylist
Jun 23, 2003, 4:22 PM
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I reeeaallllly reaaaallllyy realllllly try not to play the elitist prick card...but this thread is too much.
I look over the location of you uber-experienced climbers who live in meccas like Evansville, Indiana. Used to go to school there. Go Mater Dei wrestling. Climbing??? Me thinks not.
I think this thread just reveals a dichotomy within climbing. People who can hack life, and people who run. Which is which is the paradox?
Whoever tried to call me out about the one drink thing...quite literally YES, if you can't keep your poop in a scoop after just one drink, then NO you wouldn't ever find yourself tied in with me. Does this mean we have to always drink (and in reality rarely do) before climbing. Heck no. But it does say something about your character.
I recant that statement and amend it for my friend Scott Decapio. Sober fella...rarely ever drinks...has soloed more Grade VI ice in the Canadian Rockies than anyone else I know...him I trust.
You punters are the people that retro bolt bold routes too, because they aren't up to your 9 to 5 standard.
The Valley Plan...ever heard of J. Middendorf? He was an advocate...but he never drank or played with anything, eh?
Go back to your hypothesizing about real climbing and what it takes, rub your carpel tunnel, snap one of in the bathroom after you read someone else's trip report, and ....
Stay near the little rocks, they offer your only sanctuary.
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jefffski
Jun 23, 2003, 8:14 PM
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In Germany they came first for the Communists, and I didn't speak up because I wasn't a Communist.
Then they came for the Jews, and I didn't speak up because I wasn't a Jew.
Then they came for the trade unionists, and I didn't speak up because I wasn't a trade unionist.
Then they came for the Catholics, and I didn't speak up because I was a Protestant.
Then they came for me, and by that time no one was left to speak for me.
MARTIN NIEMOELLER
(German theologian imprisoned throughout World War II)
As cited in Influencing Minds by Leonard Roy Frank
In reply to: In reply to: we don't have a responsibility to each other? No. I have no responsibility for you, none whatsoever. Nor will I accept any. That's the world right there. Better get used to it. DMT
i'm not telling you how to behave. however i am saying that your behaviour may have immediate consequences for people around you and and long term effects on all of us. So i'm speaking out against your behaviour. What you do does matter to me.
if you don't like living in a society where people have responsibility to one another i would suggest afghanistan or iraq. in those places there is lawlessness and anarchy. perfect for you (apolgies to people in those place--he'd only make your lives worse).
nor is this to say that i am perfect. i behave in ways that are 'bad', but i don't brag about it, i would like to stop doing those things, i don't rationalise the behaviours and i'm not proud of them.
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dingus
Jun 23, 2003, 8:27 PM
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In reply to: if you don't like living in a society where people have responsibility to one another i would suggest afghanistan or iraq. in those places there is lawlessness and anarchy. perfect for you (apolgies to people in those place--he'd only make your lives worse).
Hehe, I don't believe you know the first thing about either place you haven't seen on the 700 Club or read in the Limbaugh Letter.
DMT
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sticky_fingers
Jun 23, 2003, 8:28 PM
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Can't do it cuz of my teeth.
I always end up wacking the bottle against the wall when I hold it in my teeth when I dyno.
gaffaw
gaffaw
lame topic
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anothertucsonclimber
Jun 23, 2003, 8:53 PM
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Unfortunately dude - I don't think you have a long climbing career ahead of you if you keep that crap up. Been there, done it - ITS DUMB!!!!!!!
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czarcastic
Jun 23, 2003, 9:10 PM
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Ok, I think we can all agree to disagree...I think most people will look at the "other" side and shake their heads and know that the others particular behaviour is not what they want to do themselves. It just comes down to a judgement call by the people involved and I don't think anyone can generalize or make assumptions regarding it, especially if they have never tried it. It obviously works for some people, occasionally for me, but probably would be a bad thing for a lot of people. Does it make you dangerous? Yes it most definitely could, but so could not tieing your knot correctly, getting in over your head on a climb or deciding on ignoring the weather. It comes down to a judgement call and sometimes people make the wrong calls and pay for it. Some people have said that they would hate to be around to deal with an accident involving someone who is drunk, but personally I would hate to deal with some of the unsafe people I have seen at the crag. Would I help them after they did something stupid and I was in the area and could provide assistance. Hell Yes! Would I possibly find somewhere else to climb before something happened, or offer helpful advice? Maybe, but I doubt I would care either way if the person was drunk or stupid or both when an accident does happen, because either way, an accident was most likely a bad judgement call and who am I to blame.
People who like to have a few while climbing, Great! People who don't, Great! Just don't climb with one another and things will be fine. We have too many historical examples in climbing that can prove it can help certain people either way, so why bother arguing who is right and who is wrong, because regardless of whats said here, I still like to puff before some climbs and my belayer does too. If that makes me stupid in your eyes thats fine, I'll leave my judgement of you until when I actually know you.
If you feel the need, flame at will, I'm high anyway and don't even know what I just said...holy crap, what am I doing high at work!! :lol:
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rockmx
Jun 23, 2003, 9:14 PM
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In reply to: i'm not telling you how to behave. however i am saying that your behaviour may have immediate consequences for people around you and and long term effects on all of us. So i'm speaking out against your behaviour. What you do does matter to me. if you don't like living in a society where people have responsibility to one another i would suggest afghanistan or iraq. in those places there is lawlessness and anarchy. perfect for you (apolgies to people in those place--he'd only make your lives worse). nor is this to say that i am perfect. i behave in ways that are 'bad', but i don't brag about it, i would like to stop doing those things, i don't rationalise the behaviours and i'm not proud of them.
AMEN!!!
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anothertucsonclimber
Jun 23, 2003, 9:37 PM
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I agree - BUT , when those actions impact others - you need to think a little more. If you want to drink and climb - fine with me. Just keep it to yourself and make DAMN sure that it doesn't drag anyone else into it.
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mhr2000
Jun 23, 2003, 9:41 PM
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In reply to: I look over the location of you uber-experienced climbers who live in meccas like Evansville, Indiana. Used to go to school there. Go Mater Dei wrestling. Climbing??? Me thinks not.
How does my location have to do with anything? Whatever man!
In reply to: Whoever tried to call me out about the one drink thing...quite literally YES, if you can't keep your poop in a scoop after just one drink, then NO you wouldn't ever find yourself tied in with me. Does this mean we have to always drink (and in reality rarely do) before climbing. Heck no. But it does say something about your character.
Yes I called you out about the one drink!
How does ones character have anything to do with something they cannot control like alcohol once it's in the body? Again... whatever man!
My main point was to find out if you extended your "get lost" attitude to include non-drinkers in with those who can't handle as much as you.
Party on!
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czarcastic
Jun 23, 2003, 9:49 PM
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Anothertucsonclimber: So are you saying that if someone is stupid enough to tie their knot wrong, then climb and hurt themselves, its wrong drag you into it? Personally I agree with not wanting other peoples problems dropped in your lap, expecially when you don't agree with the behaviour that got them there. But you feel just as strongly about people drinking as I do about people not climbing safely, but yet I wouldn't expect those inexperienced people to not drag me into it if something happened. Again its a judgement call and if I you don't want people involving you in their bad judgements, you might want to give up climbing, or find a crag thats in a bubble. (if you find that crag, please let me know as the rain the weekends has been crap)
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alpinestylist
Jun 23, 2003, 9:55 PM
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MHR...I used your geographic location to indicate you can't climb too much...go ahead and tell me how you get rad at the red. In the world I live in people bag pitches every day, lots of them, strictly for training benefit or maybe just for fun. Everyday people I know are crushing things, everyday busta! This is the point of view I write from, climbing isn't something you do when you can get someone to sit for the kids, you want to look cool for your new girlfriend, or finally get one weekend out of two months, it is a way of life practiced everyday.
My perspective is probably drastically different from yours. I scare people like you at the crag. We are both allowed to go on living.
I think the one drink and composure analogy tells a lot more about your point in life than it does about your climbing.
One beer man?? come on...maybe if you are virginal and holy and what not then you can say you don't drink beer. But anyone I know worth their mud can drink one beer and do ANYTHING...I learned this when I was sixteen.
Any 2 bit climber that has gone more than a week without a shower, rode tripped, made their own retreat anchor, lead a pitch or whatever can flipping drink one beer.
Eminem says it best "you little girls, why do you act this way?"
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gretchino
Jun 23, 2003, 9:59 PM
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In reply to: This is the point of view I write from, climbing isn't something you do when you can get someone to sit for the kids, you want to look cool for your new girlfriend, or finally get one weekend out of two months, it is a way of life practiced everyday. My perspective is probably drastically different from yours. I scare people like you at the crag. We are both allowed to go on living."
Good grief man...no need to get snippy. This thread obviously irked you pretty well, we get it. :shock:
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hammer_
Jun 23, 2003, 10:08 PM
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This thead is great reading keep it up! LOL
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thedesertnomad
Jun 23, 2003, 10:20 PM
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It seems that I am finally in the majority on something... lol I find it to be a rather bad choice of what to do. First... the dieretic factor alone is a bad thing. Especially in the summer, you get dehydrated and it clearly will hurt your climbing. Secondly, ONE beer (or drink) most assuradly lessens your reaction time. I want to be at my BEST when I am climbing and don't want ANYTHING to slow me down or confuse me. I know lots of people who climb high. Just not for me... with some of the stupid things I have done buzzed (in one way or another) I would NOT want to be hanging 200+ feet off the ground when those mistakes caught up with me. To each their own I suppose, but damn !!!!!
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watersprite
Jun 23, 2003, 10:27 PM
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it's affected, not effected, dumb ass!
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fredbob
Jun 23, 2003, 10:40 PM
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In reply to: In Germany they came first for the Communists, and I didn't speak up because I wasn't a Communist. Then they came for the Jews, and I didn't speak up because I wasn't a Jew.
Then they came for the climber who likes to have a beer at lunch while at the crags, and I didn't speak up because I wasn't a beer drinker.
Then they came for the climber who likes a puff or two while at the crags, and I didn't speak up cause I don't smoke weed.
In reply to: Then they came for me, and by that time no one was left to speak for me.
In reply to: if you don't like living in a society where people have responsibility to one another i would suggest afghanistan or iraq. in those places there is lawlessness and anarchy.
Seems that the US brought lawlessness and anarchy to Iraq. And exactly what is the relationship between the state of affairs in those countries and people being responsible to one another?
BTW, some climbers seem to relax a bit and climb more "fluidly" with a beer or two. Powered By Old English (11c/d) at Josh was apparently only redpointed after a can or two of that somewhat vile brand (IMHO) of malt.
To each their own.
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apolobamba
Jun 23, 2003, 11:33 PM
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Climbing is something you do when
1. You can get someone to sit for the kids
2. You want to look cool for your new girlfriend (I have done stupider things so why not)
3. Get one weekend out of two months
During one part of your life, you can climb everyday. The next part of your life, you are making the most of the time you got. There is no need for that elitist crap.
Someone out there right now is feeling superior to you because of his doily collection.
a hero to most/ But he never meant sh!t to me
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crazeeclimber
Jun 24, 2003, 12:21 AM
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i witnessed 2 very serious accidents that occured at a climbing gym i worked at... :(
1) a friend of mine was having a party there and was drunk and soloed the back overhang, fell and nearly broke his neck. he came out with a jarred back and knee. had to have physio for 4 weeks.
2) these guys came in and had been drinking, the belayer had more to drink than the climb (who i knew and only had one beer) and the climber fell and the belayer (being tipsy) didn't catch him in time and the climber broke his wrist and now has a perminant plate in his wrist.
so i'd save the drinks till after climbing as it is a terrible thing to witness and an even terrible thing to be involved in. if something little goes wrong it can end up as a major accident.
climb safe and rock on.
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curt
Jun 24, 2003, 12:36 AM
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Well, from my personal perspective there is a huge difference between:
1) Having a beer or two and then climbing.
and
2) Being drunk and then climbing.
The first I do on a regualar basis--and the second I would never do. It appears as though many of the responses here do not make any differentiation between these two quite different situations.
Curt
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