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sgreer
Oct 31, 2008, 4:16 PM
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In reply to: One poster said it cost him around $20 in material and a couple afternoons. That sounds like a pretty minor investment to me.
$20 for a marginal piece of pro? Is it worth it if you can't build enoght to properly rate them? I would have to say that you better test a fair share of the early prototypes to failure so you know what you are falling on. I would not trust my life to the first cam I built. I would break the first one in a lab.
(This post was edited by sgreer on Oct 31, 2008, 4:17 PM)
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markc
Oct 31, 2008, 5:19 PM
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sgreer wrote: In reply to: One poster said it cost him around $20 in material and a couple afternoons. That sounds like a pretty minor investment to me. $20 for a marginal piece of pro? Is it worth it if you can't build enoght to properly rate them? I would have to say that you better test a fair share of the early prototypes to failure so you know what you are falling on. I would not trust my life to the first cam I built. I would break the first one in a lab.
I'd rephrase and say it's $20 for a suspect piece of gear. It may be bomber (if a bit rough), or it may be marginal at best. Like you said, I'd want them to be reasonably tested before ever using them. Even if you' create a functional and reliable piece, it's going to lack the polish of commercial gear. I see this attracting a certain group of people for a variety of reasons. Saving time or a buck don't seem to be on the top of the list.
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adatesman
Oct 31, 2008, 5:32 PM
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carabiner96
Oct 31, 2008, 5:48 PM
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Looks like fun! I hear ya on the project thing, though the most i've done with climbing is make a chalkbag!
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steady_climbing
Oct 31, 2008, 5:48 PM
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Wow! great looking work.
adatesman wrote: markc wrote: Even if you' create a functional and reliable piece, it's going to lack the polish of commercial gear. You mean like these?   [image]http://img.gear4rocks.com/photos/links-set.jpg[/image] I would tend to think people who actually go to the trouble to do this right will most likely take a great amount of pride in their work and the fit and finish will actually be much better than commercial units. At least I know mine come out that way.... |
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markc
Oct 31, 2008, 5:49 PM
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adatesman wrote: markc wrote: Even if you' create a functional and reliable piece, it's going to lack the polish of commercial gear. You mean like these? [image]http://img.gear4rocks.com/photos/links-set.jpg[/image] I would tend to think people who actually go to the trouble to do this right will most likely take a great amount of pride in their work and the fit and finish will actually be much better than commercial units. At least I know mine come out that way....
I knew speaking in generalities would bite me on the ass. At least they've color-coded the tubing. If you truly want me to eat my proper portion of crow, I'll have to see something a bit more finished than your last example. I have no doubt you can manage it.
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Johnny_Fang
Oct 31, 2008, 6:05 PM
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wishiwasamonkey wrote: Here is the cam: I have a old bridgeport mill retrofitted with digital readouts, no power feed, no CNC. So I generated my toolpath in excel and crank the lobes out manually to within .003". If I do this again I will opt for .005" to save some time. I aim to retrofit my mill for CNC eventually so I will probably wait until then to make another. The cam cost about 20 dollars in materials and 2 afternoons in the shop. I have leftover aluminum so you could probably do it for less. Head width is 4". I will give a review once i get it out on some rock. As a side note: I don't get why the "no one could be as smart or capable as me" attitude is so common among engineers. It drives me a little nuts sometimes, and I am one.
yer gonna die!!!11!111eleventhousandonehundredandeleven
just kidding.
man, that cam looks super cool. it's interesting, ray jardine, the guy that developed the first friends, is all about making your own gear. if anyone gets a chance to read his book, the pacific crest trail hikers handbook, i definitely recommend it. he's part fruitcake, part genius. anyway, i've made my own frameless frame pack, sil-nylon tarp-tent, sleeping bag, ditty bags, hands-off water filters, all based on his designs. my friend made bad-ass ice axes out of some sort of indestructable plastic pipe and hand-sharpened bolts he bought at the home depot. those saved our ass on several glacial traverses.
my main point is that ray jardine rails against what he calls "the marketeers." these are the people that would have you believe that you can't do it yourself, that you have to have the newest, flashy, fancy gear, that only brand names will do, and that in general it is better to trust a corporation over your own damn self. (the irony is that he is able to live his lifestyle based on the friends patent he owns... but we'll ignore that for now).
you sound like you know what you're doing and that you're investing the time and energy into doing it safely. i think it's super bad ass and i'm definitely impressed.
all these people telling you not to do it are corporate whores who have been so brainwashed that they forgot why they started climbing in the first place: because it is vastly rewarding to do something hard, to take the precautions to do it safely, to do it yourself, and to do it right.
the attitude that we should let the professionals do it, it's much safer and cheaper that way--well, shit, with that attitude we should just watch pictures and videos of people climbing. let those professionals do it, it's much cheaper and safer that way.
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fresh
Oct 31, 2008, 6:10 PM
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this sounds like so much fun.
a few questions:
where does one get the aluminum?
can you cut it and punch holes with hand tools?
can you make them with flexible stems?
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adatesman
Oct 31, 2008, 7:23 PM
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carabiner96
Oct 31, 2008, 7:23 PM
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j_ung wrote: carabiner96 wrote: Looks like fun! I hear ya on the project thing, though the most i've done with climbing is make a chalkbag! Have you tested it to failure yet? Moron.
Hey now...
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adatesman
Oct 31, 2008, 7:37 PM
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bennydh
Oct 31, 2008, 7:39 PM
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This thread needs a new grumpy old timer to come in and bash everyone's ingenuity. You know... Now that Socalclimber isn't sharing the hate. I really like that there are so many people trying to reinvent the wheel. If no one did, they'd all still be made of stone, or wood.
Maybe some of these cams will be more reliable than the so called trusted brands made by the experts. You know the ones that still seem to fail once and a while in real world applications.
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fresh
Oct 31, 2008, 7:52 PM
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thanks a lot!
adatesman wrote: Cutting 6061 aluminum is no big deal with hand tools (hacksaw, drill, etc). You're not going to be punching holes in it though. At least not through the thickness you'll be using for cam lobes....
In reply to: That said, one relatively easy solution would be to make a dual axle unit like the old Camalots.... The head on the stem was basically an aluminum block that had a hole in it into which the cable termination was pressed. The cable was terminated with a ball shank swage fitting and getting cables with those on the end is fairly easy to do.... Link. Just order an extra long cable with one on each end, cut it in half (now you have two for the price of one), pass through the head you made and then crimp a thumb loop. Ok, maybe that isn't so easy a solution....  -a.
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angry
Oct 31, 2008, 8:13 PM
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I met a guy a few years ago that had some homemade giant double axle "camalots" he'd made. He'd even anodized them and had them etched "Massive"
They had a better finish to them than even the production stuff. They were a lot heavier than Valley Giants but were really cool. I think he said he tested one of them to failure, 26,000lbs. I can't remember but that's what I think I heard.
Anyway, I'd whip on them.
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markc
Oct 31, 2008, 8:33 PM
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adatesman wrote: markc wrote: I knew speaking in generalities would bite me on the ass. At least they've color-coded the tubing. If you truly want me to eat my proper portion of crow, I'll have to see something a bit more finished than your last example. I have no doubt you can manage it. Sorry if that had come out harshly, I was just kidding around (and hoping I'd find an excuse to post that pic)....
Not at all. I'll rephrase to say that I've seen photos of number of homemade cams. The level of finish and attention to detail varies. Since people are investing their own time and it's to their taste, that's as it should be.
By the way, you should see the fence at my house. It isn't perfect, but it's better than the one my brother built while drunk.
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gunkiemike
Oct 31, 2008, 9:11 PM
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Warning - thread drift.
Johnny_Fang wrote: i've made my own frameless frame pack, sil-nylon tarp-tent, sleeping bag, ditty bags, hands-off water filters, all based on his designs. my friend made bad-ass ice axes out of some sort of indestructable plastic pipe and hand-sharpened bolts he bought at the home depot. those saved our ass on several glacial traverses.
What else have folks made out there?
Things I've done that mostly turned out well, and were a ton of fun, off the top of my head: a backpack, insulated gaiters, overboots, chalkbags, overpants (Patagucci Puff Pant clone for $180 less), nuts, cam hook, bolt hangers, nut picks, wooden pitons, ice screw handles, gear sling, harnesses, dozens of climbing holds, leashless ice tools.
A buddy of mine even made crampons when he was in high school.
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adatesman
Oct 31, 2008, 9:14 PM
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adatesman
Nov 1, 2008, 12:03 AM
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angry
Nov 1, 2008, 12:30 AM
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I made a doodie
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spikeddem
Nov 1, 2008, 1:44 AM
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angry wrote: I made a doodie
This thread is useless without pics.
Send it to adatesman for pull-testing or you're gonna die.
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adatesman
Nov 1, 2008, 2:25 AM
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wishiwasamonkey
Nov 1, 2008, 2:25 PM
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adatesman wrote: Actually, I forgot about another easy single stem method..... Take a look at the pic of the prototype Supercam I posted earlier... they just ran a runner through a tube and then over the axle. Easy enough to just take a sewn runner to Home Depot and find a length of vinyl tube in the plumbing section that's a tight fit (to make it stiff enough to allow you to pull the trigger, bit not so stiff that it won't bend when loaded). Side note- I think this is what US Patent 2004/0035992 is all about. From what I remember this was one of several methods of stem termination they were trying to cover. -a.
I had considered this previously. It seems likely a really easy way to shave a few grams off the old single flexible stem design. Have you tried it? Is it reasonably effective?
On a different note: Have you experimented with totem cam knock offs? (I would mainly love to hear a critical review of the totems)
Hijacking the thread: I had planned to build most of my CNC retrofit (software and motor drivers) myself but now I may have to cheat a bit so I can start churning out cam lobes sooner.
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adatesman
Nov 1, 2008, 2:53 PM
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irregularpanda
Nov 1, 2008, 6:30 PM
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adatesman wrote: wishiwasamonkey wrote: On a different note: Have you experimented with totem cam knock offs? (I would mainly love to hear a critical review of the totems) Their patent is definitely worth a read, as is the info on their website. I think their design is pretty good, but the limited range is probably the reason no one's picked up the design yet.
I could be wrong, but I thought it was because they are based in the basque region of france. It's kinda hard to find a financial backer, when you're basque, and it's kinda hard to be centrally located in a climbing community, when that place is basque.
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