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the_iceman
Jul 9, 2006, 6:09 AM
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In reply to: In reply to: Grabbing the bolt was the best option at the time, but it was all downhill from there. Putting your finger through a bolt hanger is never the best option. In 20 years of climbing I have never, ever done it. If you must grab a hanger, pinch it, but don't ever put your finger through it, unless you are willing to donate your finger to the crag. In reply to: However, I don't see how the six details you listed are lessons. Too bad for you, then. In reply to: P.S. Does the award come with a T-shirt or a gift certificate or something? :wink: A t-shirt would be a nice touch, actually. Jay
You're probably right, lesson learned on that, but then, I've had my finger jammed into some places on rock that would just as easily cause that same donation, just that you don't ever clip anything on top of them...
I suppose it is unfortunate that I can consider multiple points to all apply within the same lesson, oh that I were a simpler man... But I digress...
Now how bout that t-shirt?
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tradrenn
Jul 9, 2006, 10:17 PM
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8^)
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donbcivil
Jul 10, 2006, 1:48 AM
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In reply to: I don't think I have ever seen a question like "How do I become a better belayer?" Belaying is a skill like any other skill. It must be fine-tuned and practiced and improved for the safety of you and your climber. Every situation is different
As a new climber (about 2 months), I want to say that I find this topic very stimulating. The climbing is exciting but the responsibility of belaying is incredible: if someone's safety is dependent on my actions, they're going to have my full and undivided attention.
I'm thinking about buying and learning to use a gri-gri, so I can safely belay in gyms that require it. The gym where I belong teaches with the ATC and that's all that I've used so far.
I've only top-roped (as climber or belayer) but am anticipating leader climbs/belays and the mental adjustment of sending rope in the opposite direction during a climb.
One question for the experienced folks out there: do you use a glove when belaying? The only heat I've felt from the rope has been when lowering a climber from a top-rope climb, when I've caught falls the locked out ATC resulted in the rope stopping before any friction with my hand. But what about other climbing situations?
Any other advice about keeping my friends/partners safe would be greatly appreciated!
Don
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sbaclimber
Jul 10, 2006, 2:12 AM
Post #79 of 101
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In reply to: One question for the experienced folks out there: do you use a glove when belaying? The only heat I've felt from the rope has been when lowering a climber from a top-rope climb, when I've caught falls the locked out ATC resulted in the rope stopping before any friction with my hand. But what about other climbing situations?
Hopefully others who have been in those situations will post with more detail of when gloves are a good idea. I would guess most of us will probably never need them though.
Edit, actually I do wear gloves while belaying, but only to keep my hands warm :wink:
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jt512
Jul 10, 2006, 3:43 AM
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In reply to: In reply to: OK, so what does that have to do with "...please keep your left hand on the rope so you can pay out slack quickly, just in case you should loose balance, trip over ( that way you will not pull leader off the wall )." I hope this picks will illustrate my point some more.
I know what an uneven belay stance looks like. What I am asking you is how all this "left hand on the rope" stuff is going to help.
Jay
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jt512
Jul 10, 2006, 3:50 AM
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In reply to: One question for the experienced folks out there: do you use a glove when belaying?
Gloves on both hands. For sport climbing, it makes it easier to lower smoothly using skinny ropes with a grigri. For multi-pitch trad gloves should be considered essential safety devices because the leader can take very severe falls that the belayer might not be able to hold bare-handed.
Jay
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tradrenn
Jul 10, 2006, 10:00 PM
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Deleted, double post.
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tradrenn
Jul 10, 2006, 10:00 PM
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8^)
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justthemaid
Jul 10, 2006, 10:54 PM
Post #84 of 101
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In reply to: In reply to: One question for the experienced folks out there: do you use a glove when belaying? Gloves on both hands. For sport climbing, it makes it easier to lower smoothly using skinny ropes with a grigri. For multi-pitch trad gloves should be considered essential safety devices because the leader can take very severe falls that the belayer might not be able to hold bare-handed. Jay
Ditto what Jay said for me too.^^^
I'll save myself the needless typing.
I like my gloves. Protect the hands for a longer climbing day. Feels more secure with long rappels too.
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jt512
Jul 11, 2006, 2:56 AM
Post #85 of 101
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In reply to: In reply to: I know what an uneven belay stance looks like. What I am asking you is how all this "left hand on the rope" stuff is going to help. So what you saying is that you belay without your left hand on the rope ? :shock:
I belay with both hands on the rope, and three posts later I still have no idea what you you're talking about, and am becoming increasingly convinced that neither do you.
Jay
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sbaclimber
Jul 11, 2006, 3:06 AM
Post #86 of 101
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In reply to: In reply to: In reply to: I know what an uneven belay stance looks like. What I am asking you is how all this "left hand on the rope" stuff is going to help. So what you saying is that you belay without your left hand on the rope ? :shock: I belay with both hands on the rope, and three posts later I still have no idea what you you're talking about, and am becoming increasingly convinced that neither do you. Jay
This is like watching two blind people argue over what color the climbing holds are. They both know what they mean, and are even talking about the same thing, but still manage to completely and utterly miss the point.
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jt512
Jul 11, 2006, 3:40 AM
Post #87 of 101
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In reply to: In reply to: In reply to: In reply to: I know what an uneven belay stance looks like. What I am asking you is how all this "left hand on the rope" stuff is going to help. So what you saying is that you belay without your left hand on the rope ? :shock: I belay with both hands on the rope, and three posts later I still have no idea what you you're talking about, and am becoming increasingly convinced that neither do you. Jay ^^^^^^^^ :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: ^^^^^^^^^ This is like watching two blind people argue over what color the climbing holds are. They both know what they mean, and are even talking about the same thing, but still manage to completely and utterly miss the point.
Well, perhaps you're just the articulate motherfucker we need. Can you explain what the hell tradrenn is getting at?
Jay
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sbaclimber
Jul 11, 2006, 4:09 AM
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In reply to: Well, perhaps you're just the articulate f--- we need. Can you explain what the hell tradrenn is getting at? Jay
Plus, in order for tradrenn's comments to make any sense at all, we would have to assume that the belayer is doing somersaults on a scree-field. Which, as far as I can tell, is not considered good belay technique.
If you still want a full explanation, I will give it....
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jt512
Jul 11, 2006, 4:34 AM
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In reply to: In reply to: Well, perhaps you're just the articulate f--- we need. Can you explain what the hell tradrenn is getting at? Jay I could, but it is much more fun this way :wink: Plus, in order for tradrenn's comments to make any sense at all, we would have to assume that the belayer is doing somersaults on a scree-field. Which, as far as I can tell, is not considered good belay technique. If you still want a full explanation, I will give it....
It's up to you. I'm content to think tradrenn is out of his mind. As far as I can tell, he seems to be implying that if the belayer were falling onto his face, he'd have time to yard out an armful of slack before breaking his nose on the on the talus.
Jay
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sbaclimber
Jul 11, 2006, 4:39 AM
Post #90 of 101
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In reply to: It's up to you. I'm content to think tradrenn is out of his mind. As far as I can tell, he seems to be implying that if the belayer were falling onto his face, he'd have time to yard out an armful of slack before breaking his nose on the on the talus. Jay
"how stupid/clumsy would a belayer have to be to fall over while belaying? :? "
and
"if said belayer was that stupid/clumsy, would they even be capable of pulling out slack while falling?"
.....some deep philosophical questions to think about right there....kind of along the lines of "if a tree fell....."
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summitsprite
Jul 11, 2006, 5:17 AM
Post #91 of 101
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it totally
or totalities
depends on the climb
the tabala raza
at the end of the rope
on rock
rockISH
give or take
one of how many
the dope at the end
the mood to send
when and then again????????????????
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the_iceman
Jul 11, 2006, 7:36 PM
Post #92 of 101
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In reply to: it totally or totalities depends on the climb the tabala raza at the end of the rope on rock rockISH give or take one of how many the dope at the end the mood to send when and then again????????????????
What the fuck?
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saxfiend
Jul 11, 2006, 8:32 PM
Post #93 of 101
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In reply to: In reply to: it totally or totalities depends on the climb the tabala raza at the end of the rope on rock rockISH give or take one of how many the dope at the end the mood to send when and then again???????????????? What the f---?
JL
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the_iceman
Jul 11, 2006, 9:18 PM
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Or a current acid trip. "Dude do you smell that funky poem I just wrote?" No, but I can taste it... It taste's like shit.
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tradrenn
Jul 11, 2006, 11:09 PM
Post #95 of 101
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In reply to: In reply to: In reply to: I know what an uneven belay stance looks like. What I am asking you is how all this "left hand on the rope" stuff is going to help. So what you saying is that you belay without your left hand on the rope ? :shock: I belay with both hands on the rope, and three posts later I still have no idea what you you're talking about, and am becoming increasingly convinced that neither do you.
I know what I'm talking about, I assume that readers are intelligent enough to understand my post, I guess you are not one of them.
Now, please go away, I would hate for such a good thread to turn into flame war.
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summitsprite
Jul 23, 2006, 5:50 AM
Post #96 of 101
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iceman
they just up'd the honor of the crazy merit badge
'fraid you didn't quite get it
ps belay
we could
really
talk all day
v
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the_iceman
Jul 26, 2006, 6:22 AM
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I'm guessing English isn't your first language?
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aikibujin
Aug 5, 2006, 1:58 PM
Post #98 of 101
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In reply to: The belayer is like the unsung hero. Is there ever any mention of who belayed Sharma on Realization or on Dave Graham's 140+ 5.14's.
Anyone who knows anything about climbing knows that Graham belayed Sharma on his Realization send.
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hugin
Aug 5, 2006, 7:33 PM
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Good topic - glad it rose back to the top, or I wouldn't have caught it. I know thinking about all the issues with belaying can be overwhelming for a lot of n00bs, but it's very good to discuss them before you're in a belay situation, and practice thinking about them in vanilla climbing environments (eg, gym) before you're hit with them in a really tough place.
A couple of months ago, I gave my first lead belay since I was a teenager (~10 years) at the gym, and I ffound myself overwhelmed by all of it. Where was the first clip, what direction was she going in, what position gave me a good view of her ... and so on. After a couple of climbs, I was comfortable with it again, but I still need to work on my slack management a bit, and find a more comfortable safe hand sequence for feeding and taking (it would help if I had some folks to climb with more often ... *hint*). The point being that you will get comfortable with it, but you'll always have to think a bit, which is hard for some folks.
One thing I either missed in the thread, or that wasn't mentioned, is that you should also do what you can to stay out of the fall zone of the climber, and rocks that (s)he might be knocking off. An unconcious belayer is pretty much useless.
One other comment in response to a post on the first page: "Watch me" is not a bad thing, when used sparingly. I was taught to communicate with your belayer whenever you were feeling sketchy about a move and might peel. I think that's a little overkill, since it's pretty easy to get sketched out when doing some balancey thing on tiny crimpers 100' up, so I tend to tell my belayer to watch me when I'm attempting a move that I know is well out of my comfort zone or when I know I'm peeling. That doesn't absolve the belayer of responsibility to be always attentive, but it falls under the same category of being knowledgeable of your climber. Knowing when they are stable and when they are sketchy can really be a boon in managing rope effectively, and often an extra second of warning can make a big difference in how well anyone handles a fall.
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summitsprite
Dec 10, 2006, 3:13 AM
Post #100 of 101
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communication
the big ????????
the older deafff
who r u
the last selected
uneven rows
kaois unfiltered
kaois incomplete
tha tis aht
i called it
it slept around
dumb it found
my heart
hotle
not the right time for a clash
free at last
k unfilteredthough withered away
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