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bobd1953
Aug 23, 2004, 1:33 AM
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In reply to: ....What's wrong with texans?....
Go spend a year there and you might have your anwser!
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kachoong
Aug 23, 2004, 1:52 AM
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In reply to: In reply to: ....What's wrong with texans?.... Go spend a year there and you might have your anwser!
...doesn't mean they're all like that though.... I spent alot of time in New Zealand, and they don't all sleep with sheep.... here's my generalisation.... well travelled people generally have an open mind compared to those others where they're from that just lay about on the porch.... Just because Bush is a Texan, doesn't say anything about texan people.... I'd hate to think everyone considers me a fosters drinkin', BBQ shrimp eatin', crocodile wrestlin', orangeoverhang climbin', tanned, surfin' BLOKE who likes throwing children overboard.....
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tattooed_climber
Aug 23, 2004, 3:17 AM
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In reply to: In reply to: In reply to: ....What's wrong with texans?.... Go spend a year there and you might have your anwser! ...doesn't mean they're all like that though.... I spent alot of time in New Zealand, and they don't all sleep with sheep.... here's my generalisation.... well travelled people generally have an open mind compared to those others where they're from that just lay about on the porch.... Just because Bush is a Texan, doesn't say anything about texan people.... I'd hate to think everyone considers me a fosters drinkin', BBQ shrimp eatin', crocodile wrestlin', orangeoverhang climbin', tanned, surfin' BLOKE who likes throwing children overboard.....
the foster's drinkin' Aussie is RIGHT!, don't just people from where they're from...these decisions should only be formed based on ones character
we all should be less judgemental (i'm trying my best to be less judgement to the rich people of West Vancouver and their Dirtbag hating ways with their attempts to ban Climbers from a Regional Park, then though there's Only 3 TR ancors bolted)
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the_antoon
Aug 23, 2004, 3:36 AM
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Thanks pedro...it just really makes me mad when I hear such ignorant arguments. People take what politicians say for fact way too much. They need to understand that there is sometimes a huge difference between what someone says and what someone does. Since 9/11 people stopped questioning the administration. Now I understand that people got scarred, real scarred. I did too. But that voice of protest and the right to question the administration is probably one of the most important freedoms we have. It is absolutely disgusting how much the current administration has tried to capitalize on peoples trust. Before the Iraq war kicked off every speech regarding the topic somehow ended up talking about bin laden. All you ever heard was terrorist this and terrorist that and unless you let me do what I want the terrorist will come back and get you. It was horrible. They have tried to scare the American public into thinking unless we do what they want our lives are at risk. Well, I can tell you that I have never felt more in danger than right now. My many friends serving our country in Iraq and Afghanistan are putting their lives on the line every day. Iraq has become...although it was not before....a hotbed for terrorist activity. Afghanistan is still a total hell hole with thriving terrorists attacking American targets. And countless others would give their lives just to strike at America one time.
That brings up a very important point too. Bush has sworn to fight terrorism. He has launched our troops, my friends, to the farthest reaches of the world to strike at terrorist targets. But is that what needs to be done? Think about it. Do you think killing a terrorist will get rid of terrorism. Terrorism is a disease, a plague. You don’t get rid of it by attacking the terrorist. You get rid of terrorism by attacking the cause of terrorism. Once again I think about Israel. Who do you think those crazy suicide bombers are? Do you think they are psycho blood thirsty lunatics who have been brought up to want to kill Israelis. Or do you think they are something else. To give you an idea of what these people are, one of the last suicide bombers was a female lawyer trained at a prestigious law school here in the states. She joined a militant group after her house in the Gaza Strip was bulldozed with her family inside. Her entire family was killed. She had no living relatives, and in her mind, no reason to live. It was impossible for her to strike at Israel in a conventional way. The Israelis are in control of Palestine. Even if weapons were to be smuggled in, what are they going to do? Shoot at M-1 tanks (supplied by YOUR tax dollars due to AIPAC) with AK’s and hope for the best. They don’t stand a chance. She did the only thing she thought she could. She strapped a bomb to herself and tried to strike back at the people that killed her family. Now I in no way condone this. She killed no one but innocent Israelis. The same way the IDF killed her family. There was no difference. It was an eye for an eye. Frankly it is disgusting, and completely counterproductive. All she did was give the IDF a reason to go in a slaughter more Palestinian civilians. Which in turn bread a few more militants, who will kill innocent Israelis at their first opportunity. She could have very easily killed a member of my own family. However, this is the story of a terrorist. They have had an injustice in their life and are going to do anything and everything in their power to get back at whoever they feel is responsible. In most cases these people are not educated. They are people from 3rd world countries that live day by day trying not to die and trying to get enough food not starve. Of course then you have another kind of terrorist. This is someone who has not had something in their life to avenge. This is someone who feeds on that feeling of hopelessness. Osama Bin Laden is perfect example. They suck in these people and manipulate their minds to think that the only way to make life better for themselves and their family is to do what they want. They say that their family will be killed unless they do what they are told. They play on fear and are responsible for some of the most despicable acts in this world. Hitler was very good at this as well. I believe it was one of Hitler’s high ranking officials that stated during the Nuremburg trials, “controlling people is easy, all you have to do is tell them they are in danger and they will do anything you want.” Sound familiar folks? Now don’t get me wrong. I am not comparing Bush to Bin Laden or Hitler. I am laying out the facts for you to see. They have used the same tactics. And in Hitler’s case he was able to start a world war. He was even able to convince other nations to stand by him during the Jewish Holocaust, one of the most horrible acts of the twentieth century. Of course their have been many others. Do some research on your own and you will find out about more death and destruction then you ever knew took place. Check out Cambodia for one.
The point of all this is, YOU HAVE TO SEE PAST THE POLITICS. You have to do your own research. You have to stay informed. And frankly enough, you can pretty much count on anything coming out of a politician’s mouth to be twisted in at least some way. Everyone is trying to play you, and everyone is throwing propaganda at you. Be ready for it. And don’t buy into it like so many people do today.
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kachoong
Aug 23, 2004, 4:05 AM
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...great post antoon....
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curt
Aug 23, 2004, 5:27 AM
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In reply to: Thanks pedro...it just really makes me mad when I hear such ignorant arguments............ ..........Now don’t get me wrong. I am not comparing Bush to Bin Laden or Hitler. I am laying out the facts for you to see. They have used the same tactics. And in Hitler’s case he was able to start a world war. He was even able to convince other nations to stand by him during the Jewish Holocaust, one of the most horrible acts of the twentieth century. Of course their have been many others. Do some research on your own and you will find out about more death and destruction then you ever knew took place. Check out Cambodia for one. The point of all this is, YOU HAVE TO SEE PAST THE POLITICS. You have to do your own research. You have to stay informed. And frankly enough, you can pretty much count on anything coming out of a politician’s mouth to be twisted in at least some way.
For someone who espouses educating themselves and trying to see through political rhetoric, you sure sound remarkably like Michael Moore. You are every bit as partisan as those you call "ignorant" here--you are merely on the other side of the issues.
Curt
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overlord
Aug 23, 2004, 8:54 AM
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i agree with antoon here.
yes, he is probably partisan, but hes opinion is something i agree with.
also, notice how he can condemn the actions if israel and at the same time not justify the palestinian terrorist (he just gave a reason why the woman bombed something, didnt try to justify it).
and thats really different by what everybody else is doing, justifying basicly the same thing (bulldozing the houses of innocent families) by terrorist attacks.
and its really counterproductive.
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newbierockstar
Aug 23, 2004, 9:42 AM
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In reply to: In reply to: ....What's wrong with texans?.... Go spend a year there and you might have your anwser!
hhheeeyyyyy....be nice....:cry:
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the_antoon
Aug 23, 2004, 2:21 PM
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In reply to: In reply to: Thanks pedro...it just really makes me mad when I hear such ignorant arguments............ ..........Now don’t get me wrong. I am not comparing Bush to Bin Laden or Hitler. I am laying out the facts for you to see. They have used the same tactics. And in Hitler’s case he was able to start a world war. He was even able to convince other nations to stand by him during the Jewish Holocaust, one of the most horrible acts of the twentieth century. Of course their have been many others. Do some research on your own and you will find out about more death and destruction then you ever knew took place. Check out Cambodia for one. The point of all this is, YOU HAVE TO SEE PAST THE POLITICS. You have to do your own research. You have to stay informed. And frankly enough, you can pretty much count on anything coming out of a politician’s mouth to be twisted in at least some way. For someone who espouses educating themselves and trying to see through political rhetoric, you sure sound remarkably like Michael Moore. You are every bit as partisan as those you call "ignorant" here--you are merely on the other side of the issues. Curt
hey curt...you got me, I don't like Bush. As for Republican vs. Democrat, I really can't stand either. In my lifetime they really haven’t been all that different. I liked Bush Senior (republican). Not so crazy about Clinton (democrat). Get the point. How you can call me partisan is beyond me. My "hippie liberal democrat" friends think I am a right wing war mongering republican. My "right wing war mongering republican" friends think I am a hippie liberal democrat. I wonder if you even read all my posts. One was simply about politics in general and how we as Americans have stopped questioning the CURRENT administration (regardless of republican or democrat). Oh yea...and I don't like Michael Moore. He IS too partisan for my taste. It seems like the only dissenting voices we have are Michael Moore vs. Fox News. And the funny thing is both are basically propaganda machines.
The fact is, in none of my posts did I state my opinion. As a matter of fact some of the things I said were not even my own personal opinions. All I did was state facts. I tried to lay out what was going on as clearly as possible. Don't you think it is interesting that when I stated the FACTS that apparently conflicted with your ideas all you said was that I was partisan and basically tried to dismiss my posts. I do. I am Not partisan. I don't consider myself a liberal or a conservative. I don't consider myself a republican or a democrat. I hate all of them equally. I have just as many conservative republican views as liberal democrat views. And I enjoy tearing apart political spin and laying it out for people to see what is really going on. And I feel very strongly about all my views because I don’t take anyone’s word for fact. I do my own research and figure out what is going on for real. When you do that, the side that should be taken usually becomes pretty obvious. The problem is, people think most of these issues are nothing but a matter of opinion. A good example is that republicans give you tax breaks and democrats take your money. Well you used to be able to say this is true. But over the last four years, hardly anyone except big CEO’s has seen any significant amount of tax return. SEE!!!! It is no longer a matter of opinion. All of a sudden the republicans don’t have less taxes. So this topic is basically killed. But it brings up more topics. What are the republicans going to use that tax money for and what are the democrats going to use that money for? It is a never ending cycle. So figure out what you believe in. Do your research. And try you absolute hardest not to become a partisan prick like Michael Moore or Bill O’Riley.
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dingus
Aug 23, 2004, 3:08 PM
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In reply to: The point of all this is, YOU HAVE TO SEE PAST THE POLITICS.
What do you see when you look beyond the raster lines on the TV screen?
DMT
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ambler
Aug 23, 2004, 3:23 PM
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In reply to: In reply to: The point of all this is, YOU HAVE TO SEE PAST THE POLITICS. What do you see when you look beyond the raster lines on the TV screen? DMT |
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the_antoon
Aug 23, 2004, 3:30 PM
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In reply to: In reply to: What are the republicans going to use that tax money for and what are the democrats going to use that money for? It is a never ending cycle. You're right. It is a cycle. But that doesn't mean that it's not important, or that we shouldn't try to change it.
You are exactly right. We should try to change it. And the first step to that is figuring out what is really going on and forgetting all the rhetoric that you hear day in a day out from both parties.
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crotch
Aug 23, 2004, 11:52 PM
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In reply to: To top this subject off, dozens of AMERICAN CIVILIANS have even been killed INTENTIONALLY by the IDF and Bush won't even make a peep.
Care to back that up? What time frame are you talking about, and what are your sources?
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the_antoon
Aug 24, 2004, 2:07 AM
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In reply to: In reply to: To top this subject off, dozens of AMERICAN CIVILIANS have even been killed INTENTIONALLY by the IDF and Bush won't even make a peep. Care to back that up? What time frame are you talking about, and what are your sources?
My sources are the fucking family members of Rachael Corey. She was run over with D9 bulldozer while standing in front of Palestinian doctor's home who was serving as her host family and a make shift hospital for those wounded in the occupied territories. The IDF will not let ambulances out to get to a hospital so most men, woman, and children wounded by IDF usually bleed to death before they can get help. And that one was caught on tape. Standing there bright orange vest and all screaming through a megaphone at the driver that she is a US citizen and the house is filled with people. The driver ran over her then backed up and ran over her again causing massive internal and head trauma. She died before anyone could get to her. What about Brian Avrey. Yea, he got his face shot off by an Israeli sniper while he was walking a group of preteen children to school. Barely able to escape with his life he now has medical bills well over a million dollars and is horribly disfigured. He is currently touring the country talking to college students about what is going on in that region of the world. My father and sister have met Brian, his family, and the family of Rachael Corey first hand. Neither one was even near a combat situation. They were volunteers helping civilians who have been surrounded by the blood shed. Oh another good one...a pregnant mother who’s car was riddled with bullet holes at a checkpoint by IDF soldiers as the father begged them to stop screaming “WE ARE AMERICAN CITIZENS!!!” She was killed instantly along with her unborn child. All three of these happened over the last three years. All three were headline news all over the world...except for here in the states. And no, Bush still has not mentioned any of the deaths.
Oh yea…sources hmmm…other than Rachael Corey’s family, Brian Avrey, Brian Avrey’s family, the friends of these two brave young American citizens who were serving along side of them, and the family and friends of the mother who was buried with her unborn child, I have just about every major newspaper and international news source that exists.
And by the way, correct me if I am wrong, it seems as though you were just trying to call me out on a lie, or a half truth or some bull shit like that. Well if you were, I’ll let you know right now, I do not use lies or half truths. My weapons consist of facts and truth and nothing else. I don’t twist things around and I don’t justify unjustifiable actions. I have no political affiliation, I don’t state opinions, and I don’t say anything unless I CAN back it up 100%.
And do me a favor, take some time and research what is going on in that part of the world. No one ever seems to know anything more than what they see on CNN. I think it would make this world infinity better if people just took a bit of time to figure out what is happening around them.
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hugepedro
Aug 24, 2004, 3:14 AM
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Daaaaang! The Toonster is on a ROLL!
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jeffers_mz
Aug 24, 2004, 5:05 AM
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So, Antoon...
Did Rachael Corey actually win the Darwin Award, or was she beat out by the guy who tied the balloons on the lawnchair?
In any event, the number of human shields in Israel seems to have drastically plummeted.
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overlord
Aug 24, 2004, 9:00 AM
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antoon, its nice to have somebody with your backgroud (military) actually criticize bush. and even give a VERY good argument on hes behalf. havent seen any of the kind from the other side. i wonder why...
maybe civilian dimwits will listen. but i doubt it.
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hugepedro
Aug 25, 2004, 3:40 PM
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In reply to: So, Antoon... Did Rachael Corey actually win the Darwin Award, or was she beat out by the guy who tied the balloons on the lawnchair?
Ridiculing someone who stood up for, and died for, her convictions.
I don't think I need to say anything else.
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crotch
Aug 25, 2004, 6:44 PM
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In reply to: To top this subject off, dozens of AMERICAN CIVILIANS have even been killed INTENTIONALLY by the IDF and Bush won't even make a peep.
In reply to: Care to back that up? What time frame are you talking about, and what are your sources?
In reply to: My sources are the f---ing family members of Rachael Corey. She was run over with D9 bulldozer [snip]
OK. That's one. BTW, this was front page stuff on the American news.
In reply to: What about Brian Avrey. Yea, he got his face shot off by an Israeli sniper while he was walking a group of preteen children to school. Barely able to escape with his life he now has medical bills well over a million dollars and is horribly disfigured.
Not dead, but we'll call him #2.
In reply to: Oh another good one...a pregnant mother who’s car was riddled with bullet holes at a checkpoint by IDF soldiers as the father begged them to stop screaming “WE ARE AMERICAN CITIZENS!!!” She was killed instantly along with her unborn child. All three of these happened over the last three years.
Mother and fetus. 3 and 4. In 3 years.
In reply to: All three were headline news all over the world...except for here in the states. [snip] And by the way, correct me if I am wrong, it seems as though you were just trying to call me out on a lie, or a half truth or some bull s--- like that. Well if you were, I’ll let you know right now, I do not use lies or half truths. My weapons consist of facts and truth and nothing else. I don’t twist things around and I don’t justify unjustifiable actions.
4 people in 3 years. You are about 20 short of the "dozens" of dead American civilians you talked about. If not a lie or a half-truth, then an exageration.
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jeffers_mz
Aug 25, 2004, 7:47 PM
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"Ridiculing someone who stood up for, and died for, her convictions.
I don't think I need to say anything else."
No, you don't. I freely admit it. Either she was too stupid to know the IDF doesn't screw around, or she thought she could essentially blackmail them into accepting reduced security from terrorism, or else she got exactly what she wanted. Either way, she does not have my respect and never will.
I'm surprised she has yours. Standing in front of the bulldozer, screaming that she's an American citizen, like that entitles her to special treatment fits the Left's description of "Ugly American" to a T. Once again, consistency falls, in the face of political expediency.
The only good that came from the situation is that other idiots now realize their blackmail won't work and don't even try.
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the_antoon
Aug 26, 2004, 2:02 AM
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First off...THANK YOU hugepedro!!! I don't think I could have said it any better. I would have responded to that ridiculous prick sooner but I have been out of town for training. Also thanks to Overlord for giving me some feedback. I really appreciate people like you who know what this kind of thing is all about. You too are from a part of the world that has seen this kind of ugliness and also seen those like Rachael, Brian, the US Military, and so many others step in to help.
Secondly, crotch, you disgust me. ARE YOU EVEN AN AMERICAN?!?!?!?! Please answer that by the way because everything you have said makes me think you are a fucking Nazi. I'm really confused. You are defending a foreign country for killing an American civilian. Not only that, but an American citizen being about as American as one can be. She was willing to GIVE UP HER OWN DAMN LIFE for people she hardly knew. Just like all those in the military today and every brave soldier that fought in Desert Storm, Vietnam, Korea, WWII, WWI, and every conflict and war this country has ever seen. These people, military and civilian that step into harms way every day to protect people no different than yourself deserve YOUR respect. If you were in a position like so many people are today around the world these are the folks that would come protect you. These are the people that would come and give food and water to your starving family. Provide medical attention to your daughter that was shot in the leg. Give antibiotics to your sick mother. These are the people that would willingly give up their own lives just to protect you for one day. And guess what else. Rachael and Brian were doing it a year ago. Their friends and colleagues are doing it now. And hundreds of thousands of American military men and women are over seas doing what they can as we speak. Rachael Corey was trying to right a wrong in this world. Protect the innocent. SHE WAS STANDING IN FRONT OF A HOSPITAL!!!! She was trying to protect people’s lives. That is something America has stood for since the constitution was written. We have always been the ones that step in and protect the underdog. We have always been the ones that protect the innocent and the oppressed. And I have the up most confidence we will continue to do so for years to come in spite of people like you.
You are lucky. You are an American (I think). You are safe and sound because people like our service men and women and the civilians like Rachael Corey and Brian Avrey are standing up for American ideals around the world. They will give up their lives in an instant to protect one starving child or one injured woman. I hope you never end up in a position where you need people like these brave citizens of the United States of America, because you surely don’t deserve their help.
I would also like to point out once again that not once in your posts did you state any facts. All you did was try to discredit me and ridicule someone that you should be striving to be like (Rachael Corey, Brian Avrey, and our service men and women). You should be ashamed of yourself. I really can’t believe what you said either, you tried to minimize Brian getting his face shot off. Besides the fact that the IDF sniper was trying to kill him, his life has been destroyed. You act as though Rachael’s death was no big deal. And then you hardly give a mention to a mother and child obliterated while sitting in a parked car at a checkpoint. I can guarantee you if any of these things happened to you or your loved ones you would feel very differently about the subject, American, Nazi, or whatever you are. Of course, if they are anything like you, I doubt they would ever be willing to stand up like all those I have mentioned already have. So I’m sure you have nothing to worry about.
And I’ll be sure to get a list for you. I’m not really sure why that is even an issue though. You act like three Americans killed is alright but twenty isn’t. Well in my book one American killed is not alright, especially when they are somewhere doing what we all should be doing. I would like to say one more time that I am absolutely appalled by you and I don’t think it would be the slightest loss to this country if you went ahead and left the country that I love. You don’t deserve to be living in such a great place with values like that.
Third. Jeffers. It is more than obvious you are not aware of what is happening in the region of the world. So like I said before, please research SOMETHING before you post again. You just made yourself sound like a total douche nozzle.
Fourth. I’m only in town for tonight. I’m going to be out of the country for a few days here so I won’t be able to post. So to all you douche bags out there…feel free to post all the Anti-American bull shit lies and disgusting comments that you want. I’ll be sure to get to them sooner or later.
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bumblie
Aug 26, 2004, 12:02 PM
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You do have a flair for the dramatic. :shock:
BTW Rachael Corey was standing in front of a house, not a hospital. She died because she was arrogant (or stupid) enough to think she could blackmail the Israeli army. Is her death a tragedy? Of course. All premature deaths are tragedies. Do I consider hetr a martyr? Absolutely not. The death of Americans who choose to live in areas of civil unrest should not come as a surprise.
What's your take on Sudan?
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overlord
Aug 26, 2004, 2:18 PM
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In reply to: The death of Americans who choose to live in areas of civil unrest should not come as a surprise.
then why did the beheading cause such an uproar????
imagine what would happen if she was killed in, say, germany???
at least political "punishment" would follow. but that doesnt seem to happen with israel...
anyone remebers that CIA ship the israelis shoot up??? cant remeber the name...
anyway, it was during the israel/egypt war. when the powers that be thought that egypt was responsible, the were going to nuke kairo. i mean the planes were in the air. but when it became clear that izrael KNOWINGLY attacked the ship (wich was on an observing mission) it was all swept under the rug...
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