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jt512
Feb 2, 2005, 7:51 PM
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In reply to: In reply to: In reply to: I tend to regard a 12 foot fall as a rather long fall. If you regard that as a short fall, make sure you have a good life insurance policy. cheers, rob.calm Not to derail this, but are you serious? You must be one of the most cautious of the cautious climbers Rob You're damn right! When the gear gets below my navel, I'm looking for the next piece to insert. rob.calm
Well, I suppose that that's an effective way to train endurance, anyway.
-Jay
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banzai
Feb 2, 2005, 7:57 PM
Post #77 of 211
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This is a little off topic, but this one time I did experienced a unique problem with my orange alien: I was going to clean the piece out of a crack but when I pulled on the trigger the metal sheath for the trigger completely ripped out in two pieces. This didn't affect the integrety of the cam (the main cable was intact, only the sheath had ripped), but it did render the cam quite useless for the rest of the day. Back at home I managed to replace the sheath with my own version of it, required a bit of drilling and swagging, but the cam has been functioning properly since then and I am glad that I didn't have to replace the unit.
But I remained puzzled: why did the sheath failed in the first place? The unit was two years old and in good condition, I couldn't remember ever falling on it. One thing that I remembered was that the very last time I had used it was on an aid climb, I had used it as part of an anchor and the stem was bent at a weird, relatively sharp angle. While in this position, the unit had been weighted while the cleaner was ascending the rope. I can see how this could fray a couple of wires in the sheath, but it's hard to see how this could cut through all around the whole thing. One thing I observed was the the *nylon* sheath didn't show any particular sign of wear, so it's not like the rock sliced through the thing or something like that. The only thing I can think of is that perhaps the trigger was pressing against the rock because of the stem's weird angle, and when the unit was weighted it somehow pulled on the trigger to the point of ripping the sheath. Kind of hard to imagine but that's the only reasonable explanation I came up with.
Anyhow, all this is just provided for information, whatever it's worth, I still like aliens to the point that I just purchased a set of offsets, he he.
F.
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cracklover
Feb 2, 2005, 8:09 PM
Post #78 of 211
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In reply to: One Word ZERO"S......... Two Words Wild Country.... Three Words The Cam Company....
In reply to: One word "ZERO"S"............ They are twice the quality and durability, more "how many times do you have to wait for Aliens to show up at your shop because they are behind on production", stronger and personaly I think they are better in flairing scars anyway!
You work for them or something? To be perfectly frank, I wish you were right.
In the small end, I own and use Aliens, Zeros, MicroCamalots, and TCUs. I don't take sides. I have used and will continue to use all of them. I don't root for this or against that based on prejudice. What's the point? I just want a good piece of gear at a decent price - that's what matters to me.
But here's the thing - it would be great if someone made better cams than CCH on the small end, but they don't. Aliens make the best there is - unfortunately, in a small facility, but that's for them to figure out. As it is, I'd happily trade the Zeros on my rack for same-size Aliens. Seriously. I wish the Zeros were as good or better than Aliens, but for my money, they're not.
By the way, I'd like to see a pic of this broken cam, too.
GO
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elvislegs
Feb 2, 2005, 8:14 PM
Post #79 of 211
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OMG THE INTERWEB IS SOO MUCH FUN>!1!.
there is far too little information about the fall, the placement, and the damage, for any of us to know much about this. yet we have six pages of speculation. it would be pretty funny if it weren't so common-place.
fire_eyes your comments are priceless. "common sense isn't so common" OMG! "i'm working up to leading." OMGGG!11 funniest thing all week.
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climbingbums
Feb 2, 2005, 8:33 PM
Post #80 of 211
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i trust them with my life, and i know many who are on the same page as i. spend any time in the valley, and you will see what i mean. i have fallen on them, and i have some older ones.
bobby
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tradklime
Feb 2, 2005, 8:38 PM
Post #81 of 211
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In reply to: This is a little off topic, but this one time I did experienced a unique problem with my orange alien: I was going to clean the piece out of a crack but when I pulled on the trigger the metal sheath for the trigger completely ripped out in two pieces. This didn't affect the integrety of the cam (the main cable was intact, only the sheath had ripped), but it did render the cam quite useless for the rest of the day.
A similar thing happenned to an orange alien of mine. I talked to the guys at CCH and they told me that they received a defective batch of the braided steel sleeves. The issue I had was not the sleeve ripping in half, but rather the sleeve separating from the copper fitting it attaches to on the trigger.
Anyway, I mailed it to them and they fixed it for free.
Good product, good costumer service.
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banzai
Feb 2, 2005, 8:52 PM
Post #82 of 211
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Posts: 37
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In reply to: The issue I had was not the sleeve ripping in half, but rather the sleeve separating from the copper fitting it attaches to on the trigger.
F.
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stone_monkey
Feb 2, 2005, 8:56 PM
Post #83 of 211
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Registered: Sep 18, 2002
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I predict hordes of n00bs descending upon REI, newly purchased CCH Aliens in hand.
REI customer rep: "So why do you wish to return this Alien?"
Easily frightened n00b:"Well, see I read something on the internet and....."
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billcoe_
Feb 2, 2005, 8:57 PM
Post #84 of 211
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Having one 1 fail at the wrong time could easily result in a needless fatality. I appreciate hearing these things via the internet. In the old days, US mail or word of mouth would eventually get the word out, but not as fast. Love to see some pics and further documentation.
I'm curious what CCH uses for methodology to check quality?
BD was widely known for testing 100% of their carabiners, for instance, to 1/2 of ultimate rated strength. Such a test will and does pull out an occasional cull which missed heat treat or some other critical step in the process. They are now testing representative parts to 3 sigma methodolgy, and they have accrued an iso9001 rating for the company. Testing and quality ratings are visible here. http://www.bdel.com/about/testing.html
I'm not dissing CCH, they have been sucessfully making Aliens close to error free for a long time.
Does CCH test at all? To what standard or methdology? Where is this notated or written?
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hosh
Feb 2, 2005, 9:05 PM
Post #85 of 211
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well, I'd like to know more about the fall, the placement, you know, the "detalis." I'd also like to see a picture. Not that I'd konw anything by looking at it, I'm no engineer and I'm no climbing expert. Heck, I only recently started leading (I've got like a year of leading on gear under my harness). But I've got a few Aliens and when I got the new Gray one, I noticed that it was noticablly different than the rest (the axle looked like it wasn't fitted correctly and there was a little bit of a kink in the action, like there was sand in the lobes or something). Anyway, These things seem like they're more cosmetic than structural. The axle just stickes out a bit on one end but it's flush on the other. And I live in Alaska and glaiceral slit gets in everything. I've had to clean silt out of aliens before and it was no big deal. And about this orange Alien that had the problems, did the cloth sheath on the peice say alien on it or is it just black? I got an orange alien with an all black sheath. Just wondering, but I figured it was also simply cosmetic. Anyway, any photos from the original poster? I'd like to see what we're all talking about. It's like a bunch of blind men standing around arguing whether or not they were able to stay in the lines in the coloring book...
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robdotcalm
Feb 2, 2005, 9:17 PM
Post #86 of 211
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In reply to: In reply to: In reply to: In reply to: I tend to regard a 12 foot fall as a rather long fall. If you regard that as a short fall, make sure you have a good life insurance policy. cheers, rob.calm Not to derail this, but are you serious? You must be one of the most cautious of the cautious climbers Rob You're damn right! When the gear gets below my navel, I'm looking for the next piece to insert. rob.calm Well, I suppose that that's an effective way to train endurance, anyway. -Jay
Not so. It's an effective way to climb quickly. No hesitation and no quivering. No need to for strange warrior mental exercises, breathing techniques or visualizing. It's just plug and play.
vale, robertusPunctumPacificus
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quickclips
Feb 2, 2005, 9:46 PM
Post #87 of 211
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Registered: Mar 18, 2002
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So a picture of the cam?
And as far as the cable pulling out it happens. I don't know what sigma CCH tests to, but I'm sure its at least 3. Failures happen. Climbing is a risk. materials fail. if you don't like it don't climb.
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healyje
Feb 2, 2005, 10:07 PM
Post #88 of 211
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In reply to: A similar thing happenned to an orange alien of mine. I talked to the guys at CCH and they told me that they received a defective batch of the braided steel sleeves. The issue I had was not the sleeve ripping in half, but rather the sleeve separating from the copper fitting it attaches to on the trigger.
That explains the ripped sleeve on the orange alien I have...
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the_pirate
Feb 2, 2005, 10:10 PM
Post #89 of 211
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Registered: May 20, 2003
Posts: 3984
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FWIW, the only cam that I've ever had a problem with, on a climb, was a #3 BD Camalot. It was a mid-to-newer style, pre C4 Camalot (if that makes sense to any of you). The trigger wire on each side feeds through a hole in the trigger bar and loops around a plastic tab to hold it in place. Well, somehow this particular wire had come off its tab, leaving only two lobes operational with the trigger bar. I still remember that sinking feeling in my stomach as I fumbled to place the cam using the trigger bar between two fingers and my index finger looped through the bare trigger wire.
Did I return the cam after that?
no
Have I ever spoken bad of BD because of it?
no
Do I still use that cam?
yes
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jcinco
Feb 2, 2005, 10:11 PM
Post #90 of 211
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Posts: 395
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In reply to: I was climbing in South Platte last weekend, and I took a short twelve foot fall near the top of the pitch. To my suprise, my new silver alien ripped apart. The cable that is connected to the top part of the cam totally ripped out of place, and the small cables going the cams pulled apart. Needless to say, the placement failed and I fell to my next piece (thankfully, it was only a few feet below!)
BULLSHIT!
Which route in the Platte?
What pitch on that route?
Who were you climbing with?
Where's the picture?
T0+
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gunksgoer
Feb 2, 2005, 10:17 PM
Post #91 of 211
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hosh - in response to the alien you bought that had an all black sheath, that probably means its one of the SL models. SLs have a longer stem and sheath (about 1/2"), and stiffer cable. All the SLs nowadays have the black sheath, but maybe they have just started using those on the regular ones too. im not sure.
I prefer the SLs on the all but the smallest sizes; grey/yellow and up i really dont like the sloppiness of the less stiff cables found on regular aliens. the extra length is nice too for deeper placements.
To see if your orange alien is an SL, just compare it in stem/sheath length and floppiness to a regular orange alien.
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couchwarrior
Feb 2, 2005, 10:21 PM
Post #92 of 211
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Registered: Sep 1, 2004
Posts: 190
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Why do you keep bugging the poor guy for a picture of the cam scraps when only a couple of hours ago he said he would find a camera and post a photo? Give the guy a break - perhaps there is more to his life than 24/7 haunting of internet chat boards.
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jcinco
Feb 2, 2005, 10:30 PM
Post #93 of 211
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In reply to: Why do you keep bugging the poor guy for a picture of the cam scraps when only a couple of hours ago he said he would find a camera and post a photo? Give the guy a break - perhaps there is more to his life than 24/7 haunting of internet chat boards.
I'm not bugging him for a picture. That, along with the others I posted, are rhetorical questions.
The OP is a troll. Clearly there isn't more to his life than cruising and trolling climbing forums. What better way to incite a riot than slander everyone's favorite, CCH?
Maybe I should upgrade to T1?
Maybe I should shut up, since its far more fun watching everyone get worked into a tizzy over unsubstantiated and unlikely events relayed by an anonymous poster.
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billcoe_
Feb 3, 2005, 1:17 AM
Post #94 of 211
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Registered: Jun 30, 2002
Posts: 4694
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In reply to: In reply to: Why do you keep bugging the poor guy for a picture of the cam scraps when only a couple of hours ago he said he would find a camera and post a photo? Give the guy a break - perhaps there is more to his life than 24/7 haunting of internet chat boards. I'm not bugging him for a picture. That, along with the others I posted, are rhetorical questions. The OP is a troll. Clearly there isn't more to his life than cruising and trolling climbing forums. What better way to incite a riot than slander everyone's favorite, CCH? Maybe I should upgrade to T1? Maybe I should shut up, since its far more fun watching everyone get worked into a tizzy over unsubstantiated and unlikely events relayed by an anonymous poster.
Yup:
Certainly worth keeping in mind that it is the origonal posters 3rd post on this site. :oops: :!: :?:
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1800lotions
Feb 3, 2005, 1:27 AM
Post #95 of 211
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Posts: 76
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I guess that if you are from Boulder and drive a car that costs in excess of 30,000 you are the man... You tools are by far the bigget group of trust funder fu#$%# I have ver seen. Dude, you are from Kansas or anywhere but here and you need to shut the Fu$% up!! CCH is a cool group of guys that make good stuff. You are a bunch of College students looking for a chance to pretend that your activity is relevant...you have along way to go before your SH%$ smells like roses or is even relevent....
P.S.
The Boulder locals "we grew up here and are FROM HERE" hate you transplants and wish you would step off.... Colorado Proverb.
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cjstudent
Feb 3, 2005, 1:51 AM
Post #96 of 211
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Registered: Oct 21, 2003
Posts: 369
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In reply to: I guess that if you are from Boulder and drive a car that costs in excess of 30,000 you are the man... You tools are by far the bigget group of trust funder fu#$%# I have ver seen. Dude, you are from Kansas or anywhere but here and you need to shut the Fu$% up!! CCH is a cool group of guys that make good stuff. You are a bunch of College students looking for a chance to pretend that your activity is relevant...you have along way to go before your SH%$ smells like roses or is even relevent.... P.S. The Boulder locals "we grew up here and are FROM HERE" hate you transplants and wish you would step off.... Colorado Proverb.
I'm confused does any of that make sense to anyone else?
Now u are for CCH?? Dang i coulda swore I saw you post "two words...Wild Country..."
:?:
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1800lotions
Feb 3, 2005, 2:18 AM
Post #97 of 211
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Registered: Jan 15, 2005
Posts: 76
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AB,
I could care less about name brands you AP STATE trustafarian jack ass. CCH is a good bunch of guys and this is a point about people who have not played enough Hands talkin 'bout things they are not qualified too. Why don't you get your VW converted to BIO Diesel in Asheville and have Daddy send you another check! Thanks for saving our planet by growing dreadlocks and talking smack!
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vegastradguy
Feb 3, 2005, 2:25 AM
Post #98 of 211
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Registered: Aug 28, 2002
Posts: 5919
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:wtf:
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paganmonkeyboy
Feb 3, 2005, 2:56 AM
Post #99 of 211
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Registered: Apr 30, 2003
Posts: 663
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In reply to: AB, I could care less about name brands you AP STATE trustafarian jack ass. CCH is a good bunch of guys and this is a point about people who have not played enough Hands talkin 'bout things they are not qualified too. Why don't you get your VW converted to BIO Diesel in Asheville and have Daddy send you another check! Thanks for saving our planet by growing dreadlocks and talking smack!
whoa
sounds like somebody needs a hug...
7 pages of reading, and no pic yet...the suspense is killing me...i'm gonna go climb...
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cjstudent
Feb 3, 2005, 3:11 AM
Post #100 of 211
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Registered: Oct 21, 2003
Posts: 369
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In reply to: 1800lotions wrote: One word "ZERO"S"............ They are twice the quality and durability, more "how many times do you have to wait for Aliens to show up at your shop because they are behind on production", stronger and personaly I think they are better in flairing scars anyway!
In reply to: 1800lotions wrote: One Word ZERO"S......... Two Words Wild Country.... Three Words The Cam Company....
In reply to: 1800lotions wrote: I guess that if you are from Boulder and drive a car that costs in excess of 30,000 you are the man... You tools are by far the bigget group of trust funder fu#$%# I have ver seen. Dude, you are from Kansas or anywhere but here and you need to shut the Fu$% up!! CCH is a cool group of guys that make good stuff. You are a bunch of College students looking for a chance to pretend that your activity is relevant...you have along way to go before your SH%$ smells like roses or is even relevent.... P.S. The Boulder locals "we grew up here and are FROM HERE" hate you transplants and wish you would step off.... Colorado Proverb. AB, I could care less about name brands you AP STATE trustafarian jack ass. CCH is a good bunch of guys and this is a point about people who have not played enough Hands talkin 'bout things they are not qualified too. Why don't you get your VW converted to BIO Diesel in Asheville and have Daddy send you another check! Thanks for saving our planet by growing dreadlocks and talking smack!
What in the hell?
First off your first post about the colorado thing makes no sense. Besides the fact that its hard to read...what u are telling the rest of us that aren't from Co to shut up? I didn't quiet see the point in that.
It just seemed to me that at first you were telling us that we need to get Wild Country cams instead of CCH. You bashed CCH saying it takes long to get the cams. Then u seemed to go totally the other way in telling everyone who was talking smack about CCH to stfu if they weren't from CO. I mean i haven't graduated college yet but its not adding up to me.
And dude u can kiss my hairy ass. I drive a Jeep, not a VW. My ass gets up and goes to work every day that i don't have class. No checks from daddy here. I never said anything bad about CCH. I was wondering why you said "Wild Country" then jumped on people about CCH. I don't have dreads, actually my head is buzzed and about 1/4" long. And what does talking smack have to do with saving the planet?
My name is Aaron. I am a gear-aholic. I think BD, Metolius and CCH makes good gear. I like Aliens and plan to buy a set. I've also used and fallen on aliens.
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Re: CCH aliens are dangerous!
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