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Gmburns2000
Jul 6, 2011, 1:47 AM
Post #102 of 266
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drivel wrote: stealth wrote: ....article snip.... Drivel cannot read ^^^^^^^^ I can read, actually. I read lots of fourth and third degrees, and one second degree, which means that even under police and parental scrutiny, the girl told them it was consensual.
there's no way he didn't manipulate her in some way. she may be old enough to be horny, but she's not old enough to know what that means when a 31 year-old wants to screw her. He had to tell her it was OK. It was probably pretty easy. She probably had a crush and knew a little about this and that regarding sex to know what to do and what he wanted to do, but I have serious doubts that a 14 year-old (male or female) would really know what the hell to do with a 31 year-old without being told that it was OK. I'm no expert, but it makes sense to me that the consent age is where it is for that reason.
In other words, anyone saying she consented is really giving her too much credit.
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notapplicable
Jul 6, 2011, 1:50 AM
Post #103 of 266
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And one final thought...
I think it is worth noting that most of the more measured "it's not the end of the world" type posts in this thread are coming from the women, while the men are the ones flippin shit and calling for this guy to be castrated. There might just be something to that.
(This post was edited by notapplicable on Jul 6, 2011, 1:50 AM)
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macherry
Jul 6, 2011, 3:41 AM
Post #104 of 266
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carabiner96 wrote: notapplicable wrote: Sheldon wrote: I am getting a strongly pro-fucking 14 year old vibe from your posts. Thats funny, I'm getting a strong common sense vibe from drivels posts. +1.
+2
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j_ung
Jul 6, 2011, 11:31 AM
Post #105 of 266
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carabiner96 wrote: notapplicable wrote: Sheldon wrote: I am getting a strongly pro-fucking 14 year old vibe from your posts. Thats funny, I'm getting a strong common sense vibe from drivels posts. +1.
+2
Drivel isn't the one who looks like a 14 year old in this thread.
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FFMichelle
Jul 7, 2011, 6:13 AM
Post #108 of 266
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I am on my cell phone reading numerous responses to this post. I am affected directly by what Michael lyons did. I trusted him to provide a safe adult supervised active outlet for my 15 year old son and 14 year old daughter. He was a huge part of our lives for 2 years. Helping children get to out of state events when the parents were not able to. Parents who supervise their children at all times are criticized for being overprotective. If you let them go you are not a good parent. If a girl says or dresses the wrong way blah blah blah!
This facility has three levels, there were more than 100 ppl, more than half adults, there during most of the events. I was there for most of the 2 hr trainings if not all, climbing/working out or doing my work @ a table out in the open. I saw nothing! He was always sweet and respectful to everyone, that I saw. Neither of my children saw anything that needed to be reported. I have been in touch with other parents and students that are shocked as well.
I sent my kids here to keep them active and out of trouble, I trusted this environment AND ESP their COACH! Bottom line, he broke the law! We can't always be there for our children, he was in a position to be that great role model. We have to put trust in our children and hope that other adults, esp in those positions share that goal.
Someone stated that when he heard her topic he should have told the parents. That is what I would have wanted for my kids. He didn't he made a totally selfish move. I explained to my kids, if someone tells you they love you or anything of the sort, if it is breaking a law then there is something wrong.
I personally do not let this one monster change my feelings for rock climbing or even our gym (they have been wonderfully helpful and supportive). We were actually notified before the media and kept ahead of all of the releases. It has truly affected myself and my children but how can you screen someone with no record. I haven't slept well since, but I can't figure how we could do anything to change it. These things happen, I am deeply sorry for the young girl and her parents. She is now no longer trusting her parents since Mr Lyons is in prison, from my understanding. The dynamics to this occurance is devasting!
I am sorry this was so long but I hope it clears some of the disputes going on. Be safe everyone! Climb on!
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FFMichelle
Jul 7, 2011, 6:48 AM
Post #109 of 266
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I also like to add, if she dressed inappropriately, which she didn't, it was also his job to address it.
If he thought what he was doing was ok, he would have shown up at her house and taken her on dates with the parents knowledge. He knew it was wrong and having sex with her in closets, behind closed doors in a business while others could catch them, while extremely busy, they both knew it was wrong and he knew the places. He assisted her in even more sexual devious acts. She may have consented yet there is a reason 14 years olds are not able to legally live on their own, they are not equipped to make major decisions for themselves.
I was a boyscout mom, I get the two adult rule. With having male and female parents/children and the teams they are on together, bathroom breaks, three level building, ugh that was impossible. I've thought about all of these things considering the circumstances, woken up all hours of the night thinking. There were so many ppl there, so jam packed. Shoulda, coulda, woulda, it's him, as much as I wanted to defend him until I learned he admitted it. :(
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funnelator
Jul 7, 2011, 11:50 AM
Post #110 of 266
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Michelle, as a parent of a child at that gym, thanks for taking the time to post to this thread.
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Solnyschkamynka
Jul 7, 2011, 12:38 PM
Post #111 of 266
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I live in Maryland. And when I had a cr, I climbed the boudler wall at EarthTreks all the time.
Here's the link from our local New Station.
http://baltimore.cbslocal.com/2011/06/30/climbing-instructor-faces-charges-after-allegedly-having-sex-with-teen/
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Toast_in_the_Machine
Jul 7, 2011, 12:42 PM
Post #112 of 266
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FFMichelle wrote: I also like to add, if she dressed inappropriately, which she didn't, it was also his job to address it. If he thought what he was doing was ok, he would have shown up at her house and taken her on dates with the parents knowledge. He knew it was wrong and having sex with her in closets, behind closed doors in a business while others could catch them, while extremely busy, they both knew it was wrong and he knew the places. He assisted her in even more sexual devious acts. She may have consented yet there is a reason 14 years olds are not able to legally live on their own, they are not equipped to make major decisions for themselves. I was a boyscout mom, I get the two adult rule. With having male and female parents/children and the teams they are on together, bathroom breaks, three level building, ugh that was impossible. I've thought about all of these things considering the circumstances, woken up all hours of the night thinking. There were so many ppl there, so jam packed. Shoulda, coulda, woulda, it's him, as much as I wanted to defend him until I learned he admitted it. :(
Can you please explain the bolded part? Sexting?
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Sheldon
Jul 7, 2011, 12:47 PM
Post #113 of 266
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Toast_in_the_Machine wrote: FFMichelle wrote: I also like to add, if she dressed inappropriately, which she didn't, it was also his job to address it. If he thought what he was doing was ok, he would have shown up at her house and taken her on dates with the parents knowledge. He knew it was wrong and having sex with her in closets, behind closed doors in a business while others could catch them, while extremely busy, they both knew it was wrong and he knew the places. He assisted her in even more sexual devious acts. She may have consented yet there is a reason 14 years olds are not able to legally live on their own, they are not equipped to make major decisions for themselves. I was a boyscout mom, I get the two adult rule. With having male and female parents/children and the teams they are on together, bathroom breaks, three level building, ugh that was impossible. I've thought about all of these things considering the circumstances, woken up all hours of the night thinking. There were so many ppl there, so jam packed. Shoulda, coulda, woulda, it's him, as much as I wanted to defend him until I learned he admitted it. :( Can you please explain the bolded part? Sexting?
Why. The. Fuck. should she? What do you hope to gain? Freak.
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Solnyschkamynka
Jul 7, 2011, 12:48 PM
Post #114 of 266
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It is a sad day in the world of MD Rock Climbing. Allow the sport to live on..please.
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Solnyschkamynka
Jul 7, 2011, 12:50 PM
Post #115 of 266
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I became a rock climbing coach when I was 19. I am 23, and have been unemployed in the sport for several years. This is truly unhappy. But I hope maybe some good will come of it.
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Send_Or_Spank
Jul 7, 2011, 1:00 PM
Post #116 of 266
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To the OP, I fully expect rock climbing, on a global scale, to completely cease to be. It will be no more. Thanks for bringing this to the attention of rc.com.
Aspchintersayswhat?
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Toast_in_the_Machine
Jul 7, 2011, 1:08 PM
Post #117 of 266
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Sheldon wrote: Toast_in_the_Machine wrote: FFMichelle wrote: I also like to add, if she dressed inappropriately, which she didn't, it was also his job to address it. If he thought what he was doing was ok, he would have shown up at her house and taken her on dates with the parents knowledge. He knew it was wrong and having sex with her in closets, behind closed doors in a business while others could catch them, while extremely busy, they both knew it was wrong and he knew the places. He assisted her in even more sexual devious acts. She may have consented yet there is a reason 14 years olds are not able to legally live on their own, they are not equipped to make major decisions for themselves. I was a boyscout mom, I get the two adult rule. With having male and female parents/children and the teams they are on together, bathroom breaks, three level building, ugh that was impossible. I've thought about all of these things considering the circumstances, woken up all hours of the night thinking. There were so many ppl there, so jam packed. Shoulda, coulda, woulda, it's him, as much as I wanted to defend him until I learned he admitted it. :( Can you please explain the bolded part? Sexting? Why. The. Fuck. should she? What do you hope to gain? Freak.
Calm. The. Fuck. Down.
There is a good and honest reason. The "out of the blue" nature of this incident (many people around, no visible warnings to parents and kids there at the time) leads me to wonder if there were clues that were missed. Even if it is something as benign as a texting relationship, it could provide insight to prevent something like this.
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superchuffer
Jul 7, 2011, 1:21 PM
Post #119 of 266
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Michelle, thanks for posting some actual insights and facts.
why have to keep looking for answers? could we have known, blah, blah, blah. there isn't an answer to everything. sometimes bad things happen to good people, even in public places.
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Solnyschkamynka
Jul 7, 2011, 1:26 PM
Post #120 of 266
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AGREED
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ceebo
Jul 7, 2011, 1:56 PM
Post #121 of 266
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FFMichelle wrote: I also like to add, if she dressed inappropriately, which she didn't, it was also his job to address it. If he thought what he was doing was ok, he would have shown up at her house and taken her on dates with the parents knowledge. He knew it was wrong and having sex with her in closets, behind closed doors in a business while others could catch them, while extremely busy, they both knew it was wrong and he knew the places. He assisted her in even more sexual devious acts. She may have consented yet there is a reason 14 years olds are not able to legally live on their own, they are not equipped to make major decisions for themselves. I was a boyscout mom, I get the two adult rule. With having male and female parents/children and the teams they are on together, bathroom breaks, three level building, ugh that was impossible. I've thought about all of these things considering the circumstances, woken up all hours of the night thinking. There were so many ppl there, so jam packed. Shoulda, coulda, woulda, it's him, as much as I wanted to defend him until I learned he admitted it. :(
I find what you have typed very shocking.. i assumed that they were meeting in their own time.
Where i fully understand and appreciate your insight.. i see 1 huge contradiction here. You state that nothing could have been done but then you go on to say that their should always be 2 adults (completely agree.. even more adults if possible). The thing is you said this was a busy gym and that he was doing this stuff while actually at the gym. I find that incredibly alarming. How is it that in a busy gym people do not realise that the same coach and 14 year old girl keep disappearing for X amounts of time. I find it extremely hard to accept that at least some people did not notice. I think it is likely that they just did not connect the dots or thought ''na... no way is something devious going on''.
I can perfectly understand that you can't just go around saying ''oh btw i think that coach over their is fucking a 14 year old''. But what you can do is eliminate the circumstance one may feel they need to say that in the first place.
At are gym we make sure any 1 coach is ALWAYS within sight of another coach. If the coach needs to use the bathroom he has to inform at least 1 other coach that he is doing so.. and should return within 3 min. Children are also told the exact same thing.. they MUST let us know if they are going to the toilet and again must return within 3 min. On top of that, each coach is allocated a group of children that he is responsible to look after and keep close together. That adds another level of structure where 2 people can not just ''disappear''. The entire point of having more adults is so you can arrange and use such procedures.. if they are not doing that, then their is no point what so ever in even having 2 adults their.. if nobody knows where the hell anybody is at any given time.
If the gym is so busy (or the design of the walls) where the coaches do not know the exact location of each other or the children at all times.. then that gym is high risk. They need more staff, or better organisation. Such procedures can feel a big inconvenient mostly.. but the alternative? we seen that already.
Toilet brakes are the only unavoidable part where a staff member may be alone, but his location and duration is known and restricted (to cover his own back too). Minors on the other hand can be sent in pairs for added safety.
I'm very sorry, but in light of what you have said.. what happened at that gym was completely avoidable.
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Toast_in_the_Machine
Jul 7, 2011, 2:14 PM
Post #122 of 266
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Sheldon wrote: Toast_in_the_Machine wrote: Sheldon wrote: Toast_in_the_Machine wrote: FFMichelle wrote: I also like to add, if she dressed inappropriately, which she didn't, it was also his job to address it. If he thought what he was doing was ok, he would have shown up at her house and taken her on dates with the parents knowledge. He knew it was wrong and having sex with her in closets, behind closed doors in a business while others could catch them, while extremely busy, they both knew it was wrong and he knew the places. He assisted her in even more sexual devious acts. She may have consented yet there is a reason 14 years olds are not able to legally live on their own, they are not equipped to make major decisions for themselves. I was a boyscout mom, I get the two adult rule. With having male and female parents/children and the teams they are on together, bathroom breaks, three level building, ugh that was impossible. I've thought about all of these things considering the circumstances, woken up all hours of the night thinking. There were so many ppl there, so jam packed. Shoulda, coulda, woulda, it's him, as much as I wanted to defend him until I learned he admitted it. :( Can you please explain the bolded part? Sexting? Why. The. Fuck. should she? What do you hope to gain? Freak. Calm. The. Fuck. Down. There is a good and honest reason. The "out of the blue" nature of this incident (many people around, no visible warnings to parents and kids there at the time) leads me to wonder if there were clues that were missed. Even if it is something as benign as a texting relationship, it could provide insight to prevent something like this. I disagree. You're trying to get all TMZ on this. Go check the upskirt shot of that girl climbing the tree if you need spank material.
You disagree with my motives as stated? So you think I'm lying to get what again? Well you are simply wrong. You may think that way, I don't.
Similar to I&A, there is a collective benefit to full disclosure. It is often painful for those closest to the situation, but in general the more information shared the better the ability to prevent recurrences. I sympathize with the parent, she is clearly trying to remember is she saw any clues that could have prevented this.
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spikeddem
Jul 7, 2011, 2:51 PM
Post #123 of 266
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Toast_in_the_Machine wrote: Sheldon wrote: Toast_in_the_Machine wrote: Sheldon wrote: Toast_in_the_Machine wrote: FFMichelle wrote: I also like to add, if she dressed inappropriately, which she didn't, it was also his job to address it. If he thought what he was doing was ok, he would have shown up at her house and taken her on dates with the parents knowledge. He knew it was wrong and having sex with her in closets, behind closed doors in a business while others could catch them, while extremely busy, they both knew it was wrong and he knew the places. He assisted her in even more sexual devious acts. She may have consented yet there is a reason 14 years olds are not able to legally live on their own, they are not equipped to make major decisions for themselves. I was a boyscout mom, I get the two adult rule. With having male and female parents/children and the teams they are on together, bathroom breaks, three level building, ugh that was impossible. I've thought about all of these things considering the circumstances, woken up all hours of the night thinking. There were so many ppl there, so jam packed. Shoulda, coulda, woulda, it's him, as much as I wanted to defend him until I learned he admitted it. :( Can you please explain the bolded part? Sexting? Why. The. Fuck. should she? What do you hope to gain? Freak. Calm. The. Fuck. Down. There is a good and honest reason. The "out of the blue" nature of this incident (many people around, no visible warnings to parents and kids there at the time) leads me to wonder if there were clues that were missed. Even if it is something as benign as a texting relationship, it could provide insight to prevent something like this. I disagree. You're trying to get all TMZ on this. Go check the upskirt shot of that girl climbing the tree if you need spank material. You disagree with my motives as stated? So you think I'm lying to get what again? Well you are simply wrong. You may think that way, I don't. Similar to I&A, there is a collective benefit to full disclosure. It is often painful for those closest to the situation, but in general the more information shared the better the ability to prevent recurrences. I sympathize with the parent, she is clearly trying to remember is she saw any clues that could have prevented this.
You need to rephase the question if you don't want it to come off all creepy-like. As stated...it's definitely weird.
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drivel
Jul 7, 2011, 3:02 PM
Post #124 of 266
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ceebo wrote: FFMichelle wrote: I also like to add, if she dressed inappropriately, which she didn't, it was also his job to address it. If he thought what he was doing was ok, he would have shown up at her house and taken her on dates with the parents knowledge. He knew it was wrong and having sex with her in closets, behind closed doors in a business while others could catch them, while extremely busy, they both knew it was wrong and he knew the places. He assisted her in even more sexual devious acts. She may have consented yet there is a reason 14 years olds are not able to legally live on their own, they are not equipped to make major decisions for themselves. I was a boyscout mom, I get the two adult rule. With having male and female parents/children and the teams they are on together, bathroom breaks, three level building, ugh that was impossible. I've thought about all of these things considering the circumstances, woken up all hours of the night thinking. There were so many ppl there, so jam packed. Shoulda, coulda, woulda, it's him, as much as I wanted to defend him until I learned he admitted it. :( I find what you have typed very shocking.. i assumed that they were meeting in their own time.
of course they weren't meeting on their own time. "hey mom, dad, i'm gonna go have dinner with the coach ok? ok??"
he's charged with one count of second degree assault, I assume that means they had intercourse only once, at the sleepover.
by "more deviant acts," I have to speculate that the mom means oral sex, mostly because of how my parents (who are probably close to age of this girl's parents, statistically speaking) view the issue. What the coach has been charged with pretty already tells you that this happened, though.
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superchuffer
Jul 7, 2011, 3:20 PM
Post #125 of 266
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In reply to: Toilet brakes are the only unavoidable part where a staff member may be alone, but his location and duration is known and restricted (to cover his own back too). Minors on the other hand can be sent in pairs for added safety.
better yet, maybe everyone one could carry a wristband that can track their gps locations from a central database.
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