|
rainer_henfling
Feb 26, 2003, 8:57 PM
Post #101 of 123
(5406 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Feb 12, 2003
Posts: 27
|
Hey people,
I´m pretty sure you all know Tomaz Humar. And what is the motivation, the spirit, which leads him to his great adventures?! I´d say, it was GOD, and no one else, wasn´t he?
|
|
|
|
|
wv5ten
Feb 26, 2003, 8:58 PM
Post #102 of 123
(5406 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Nov 2, 2002
Posts: 671
|
Good points from both sides
I have to say that I'm a devout christian. So I would pick heaven.
but as for no sex...read the book, Song Of Soloman. I remember once, we showed a video of a study of the book, and some guys in the frat turned the book over to see if they were still reading the bible. So if I'm right, and there is a heaven, there will no doubt be sex. No worries there.
If you care as to why I believe in God and Jesus, feel free to PM me, if you want to know more about when i was athiest, and/or buddhist. PM me. if you want to know why I converted PM me. If you just want to hang out and talk, or meet up and climb. PM me. :P
|
|
|
|
|
holmeslovesguinness
Feb 26, 2003, 8:59 PM
Post #103 of 123
(5406 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Oct 10, 2002
Posts: 548
|
Acrophobia - great job there dude, that was an interesting read.
He might as well of peeled and sliced the apple into easily chewable slices himself.
LOL! Try our new "Bite Sized Forbidden Fruit™". All the sin and only half the size!
|
|
|
|
|
acrophobic
Feb 26, 2003, 9:02 PM
Post #104 of 123
(5406 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jul 8, 2002
Posts: 368
|
In reply to: Try our new "Bite Sized Forbidden Fruit™". All the sin and only half the size!
I think you just gave me my new .sig!!!! :lol:
|
|
|
|
|
wishiwaswest
Feb 26, 2003, 9:20 PM
Post #105 of 123
(5406 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jan 21, 2003
Posts: 966
|
Acrophobic, that wasn't a criticism of your post. You reflected very much my thoughts and I see what you're saying, but I don't believe you can use either the bible or science to support ones belief/disbelief in a God either way. I tend to believe in science as well, but science tends to prove the "hows" and the belief in God tends to supply an understanding of the "why". I guess I am looking at it as the belief in a spiritual being period. Not whether the world was created 4000 years ago or whether dinosaurs ever existed or whether we descended from apes or not. Science can prove/disprove all those things, but how can it prove the existence or non-existence of God, which is a concept outside the realm of the concrete as we know it? We still have not scientifically proved/disproved the existence of ghosts/spirits. That is not to say that someday it won't be proven, but at this point we can't. So I think science can be used to argue the tangible facts that many believers in God use to prove their points, but not the basic concept of a God. Am I making any sense???? I think I've confused myself..... :?
|
|
|
|
|
acrophobic
Feb 26, 2003, 9:37 PM
Post #106 of 123
(5406 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jul 8, 2002
Posts: 368
|
yep I follow ya! Science will never solve the answer to "life the universe... everything" *coughcough42cough*.
Some people need to have a reason.. some like to just “be”. I exist because I exist.. not because some being has a ultimate plan for me. Contrary to my posts I am a very SPIRITUAL person… not religious. Most people do not know the difference between spiritual and religious. Most Japanese say they are not religious, yet they pray at Shinto shrines daily and make offerings. They are spiritual.
Modernized and corporate religions are not very spiritual anymore. I’m using Shinto as a contrasting example. There is no leader of the Shinto religious. There is no central god figure or “rules” or guilt. It consists of multiple deities and a bonding to nature. Forests, Oceans, Sand, Rice…. They exist in harmony and believe in spirits, yet they are not religious and are proud to say so. Shinto does not push to convert, damn, bribe or dictate you into following it.
Yet I am agnostic and spiritual. Diversity! I don’t need a book to tell me what I have to be in order to be spiritual…. I’ll leave that to religion.
|
|
|
|
|
weaselman
Feb 26, 2003, 10:21 PM
Post #107 of 123
(5406 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Feb 17, 2003
Posts: 294
|
in church the other day, we talked about worldy pleasures (such as sex and climbing) being pale in comparison to the light of heaven and God. so... is there really a choice?
|
|
|
|
|
wishiwaswest
Feb 26, 2003, 10:30 PM
Post #108 of 123
(5406 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jan 21, 2003
Posts: 966
|
Sigh...just another victim of "the salmon of doubt".
|
|
|
|
|
rckfreek
Feb 27, 2003, 12:02 AM
Post #109 of 123
(5406 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Mar 4, 2002
Posts: 149
|
Well like i said in a previous post, i am not about to debate the question of if there is a God or not in a thread like this. I do believe in God, not by blind faith, but a faith that has been substantiated. This faith has come through reading,
studying, listening, and something that is tougher to debate, personal experience.
I am aware that some one will say that where i have seen God in my life (more exactly the Holy Spirit) is silly and i am ignorantly convincing myself of Gods hand in certain areas. However, i am the one that has seen/witnessed His hand in my life, and you can not argue personal experience.
There are so many different debates going here that it is crazy, but i did notice someone's posting that the Bible gives a specific date as to the creation of the world. This is not true, it does not give a specific date. As nice as that would be, however i do believe that the world is no more than lets say 10,000 - 20,000 years old. This is an area that i have not researched to much so take that as you want. But as for the undeniable scientific research that says the world is millions or billions of years old, look at all of the research. There was a study done after the Mt. St. Helens blew. The scientific dating method was used on the bran new layer of magma formed there. The research came out that that bran new ground was millions of years old.
As "bible pounding agnostic fanatic" (as some here have said) this is my last post. If you would like to put me down or question me on anything please feel free to send me a PM.
Lets all get away from our computers and go CLIMB HARD
- Rock Freek - Ryan
|
|
|
|
|
flying_dutchman
Feb 27, 2003, 12:16 AM
Post #110 of 123
(5406 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Nov 20, 2002
Posts: 708
|
nobody else wants to go to heaven? guess i'll have to take up bouldering or free solo'ing.
|
|
|
|
|
drector
Feb 27, 2003, 12:26 AM
Post #111 of 123
(5406 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Aug 27, 2002
Posts: 1037
|
Being an athiest, I don't understand the question.
|
|
|
|
|
wishiwaswest
Feb 27, 2003, 12:34 AM
Post #112 of 123
(5406 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jan 21, 2003
Posts: 966
|
In reply to: But as for the undeniable scientific research that says the world is millions or billions of years old, look at all of the research. There was a study done after the Mt. St. Helens blew. The scientific dating method was used on the bran new layer of magma formed there. The research came out that that bran new ground was millions of years old.
Tried to hold back....but....I CAN'T...Of course the new ground was millions of years old...if not billions....it came from the inner earth...ie magma...ie molten rock from the mantle...which IS millions/billions of years old....all it did was come to the surface through volcanic activity....the regurgitation of subducted crust....or is Plate Tectonics/Geology also a myth......like the age of the dinosaurs....
|
|
|
|
|
rockpossum
Feb 27, 2003, 12:45 AM
Post #113 of 123
(5406 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Oct 11, 2002
Posts: 230
|
Lets stop splitting hairs and get down to the real proof...
If I were Satan (and I’m not) I would take the greatest pleasure in subverting the life’s work of Jesus Christ. Create a vile self righteous, judgmental, self interested and vindictive organization that perpetuates strife, greed, intolerance, ignorance, famine, racism, poverty and war. Turn Christ into some kind of spiritual ass kicker so his message gets lost completely. Then name the organization after him.
I would insure that brutal, violence prone thugs headed major world governments and that they cloak themselves in righteous patriotism, directly or indirectly attributing their success to faith in Jesus Christ. And I would laugh my ass off when people who should know better side with this viciousness on faith alone and don’t bother trying to analyze what is really going on.
If Jesus Christ returns any time soon the first thing he should do is hire a good lawyer and sue Christianity for defamation of character.
Good luck with that,
RP
P.S. of course there is climbing in heaven, Christ seems to be belaying half this thread.
|
|
|
|
|
clymber
Feb 27, 2003, 12:52 AM
Post #114 of 123
(5406 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Feb 8, 2002
Posts: 1259
|
since i dont belive in heaven or hell god or the devil i would have to chose climbing...for all we know the bible is the best selling fiction book ever written and the author is pissed cuz hes not getting paid as much as he is supposed to
|
|
|
|
|
cerberus
Feb 27, 2003, 1:21 AM
Post #115 of 123
(5406 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Feb 6, 2003
Posts: 102
|
Hell is a place with 90+ degree weather and no chalk......
|
|
|
|
|
theooze
Feb 27, 2003, 1:22 AM
Post #116 of 123
(5406 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Feb 18, 2003
Posts: 619
|
Tha's right, clymer my friend.
Let me tell you gawdfeerin braindead fruits something else.
Why does everyone live in slavery? Even here in the wunnerful USA, we gotta work our tails off our whole lives. If you live in Somalia, Bangladesh or N. Korea, or whatever, your family starves to death and you can't do nothing about it. If you live in the mideast, you screw camels and make your wife wipe your butt.
Why? Because of religion.
|
|
|
|
|
pusherem
Feb 27, 2003, 1:41 AM
Post #117 of 123
(5406 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Feb 2, 2002
Posts: 187
|
God no doubt. Eternity is a long time to spend in hell.
|
|
|
|
|
arlen
Feb 27, 2003, 5:31 AM
Post #118 of 123
(5406 views)
Shortcut
Registered: May 3, 2001
Posts: 127
|
My idea of hell is trying to climb with a bunch of youth pastor groupies trying to share their faith with me.
8)
|
|
|
|
|
coldclimb
Feb 27, 2003, 7:03 AM
Post #119 of 123
(5406 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jan 14, 2002
Posts: 6909
|
The thing is guys, it's hell. Hell is hell. The worst you can imagine and more. So obviously, there will be no climbing there. :D :lol:
|
|
|
|
|
collegekid
Feb 27, 2003, 7:30 AM
Post #120 of 123
(5406 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jul 7, 2002
Posts: 1852
|
Ok, waaaaaaaaayyyyy back there, someone said something to the effect of "at least i KNOW that after i die, i'm not going to hell."
Why does there have to be an afterlife? Why must it be good or bad? Can it be neutral, like everything else in the universe? Why must you fear death AT ALL? I do not fear death, i fear the end of life. I fear leaving this world without finishing what i had wanted to do. I fear leaving the people i know, and i fear them missing me.
It is very naive, and immature, to believe that everything continues on forever. Sure, once you die, your body will join the rest of the decomposing organic matter on the earth's crust, so technically you never really go anywhere. You're just not functioning anymore. Why does some spirit of yours need to exist beyond the grave?
-----
In order to answer the original question, i'm going to assume there is an afterlife.
----
I choose god. Sure, climbing is fun, and i'm thoroughly addicted to it, but i'd get over it soon enough. Ultimate goodness far outweighs climbing.
|
|
|
|
|
camhead
Feb 27, 2003, 7:40 AM
Post #121 of 123
(5406 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Sep 10, 2001
Posts: 20939
|
wow. I just wasted how much time reading this thread?
anyway, one thing:
the most confident and strongest person out there is the atheist free soloist.
think about that one for a bit.
|
|
|
|
|
spider-woman
Deleted
Feb 27, 2003, 8:41 PM
Post #122 of 123
(5406 views)
Shortcut
Registered:
Posts:
|
I think the whole science vs. God argument is weak. God is the ultimate scientist. He does have infinite wisdom afterall. People who get caught up in the so called "conflicts" between science and religion are people who think we're smarter than we really are. Yes, we know a lot of things I would consider true (both scientific and religious), but we are missing all the inbetweens.
Imagine every piece of truth is a piece of a puzzle (evidence for evolution, scriptures, whatever). If somebody gave you only a few pieces of the puzzle would you deny the fact that they were puzzle pieces because they didn't all fit together? Well, that is what many of you are doing. Both theist and atheist. You are denying the pieces of truth we do have. Don't say that scientific principles are false for the sake of religion and don't say religious principles are false for the sake of science. God knows everything. We don't.
I also don't believe that people should except things blindly (blind faith). They should study them and see the alternatives before believing what they do.
|
|
|
|
|
godismyrock7
Feb 27, 2003, 10:09 PM
Post #123 of 123
(5406 views)
Shortcut
Registered: May 28, 2002
Posts: 1
|
Definently God, but only God knows where we'll spend eternity. Once you get up there for judgement theres no way to go back and try to fix the things you messed up. I'd have to say, if it's going to be heaven then there better be rockclimbing. Heaven is the perfect place. Heaven has to be perfect for everyone. If you think of all the bad things in the world really suck its soooo much worse in hell. What i don't like is other chistians pressuring people to accept Christ. It's your own decision that will affect you for eternity. Heaven or Hell. Jesus is the only way.
|
|
|
|
|
|
