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dorkmaster
Jul 14, 2004, 8:06 PM
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In reply to: veeco23 wrote: so if you know her personally, then, please, end this discussion and tell us what she's like. (let's be serious... 7 pages on tori allen's disposition seems a bit excessive) You mean 9. I see a whole bunch of people who really don't know Tori (half of which may have seen her once, the most credible had Tori belay them) yet continue to make judgements. I do it, everyone does it, but let's get some more info before we keep going. |
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changling
Jul 14, 2004, 8:11 PM
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Too many posts to read, but here are my 2 cents.
I don't like Tori Allen. Not because she's young, not because she quickly dominated the competition scene, but because she has a complete lack of respect towards climbers more experienced than her. Sure, she can pull off slightly overhanging jug filled routes pretty fast, but I don't think that makes her the best climber in the world, but that is what she, and her advertisers portray her as.
I didn't see it, but my bf saw her on Ripley's and he told me that he was absolutely disgusted by what he saw. One, they had her race against an older (and all-round) climber and she beat him (surprise surprise) and then she goes off and says: "Oh, he's not a real climber." Then she went up a campus board and everyone acted as though this was some incredible thing. Ok, I can't do that, but there are a hell of a lot of people who can. It's not that amazing. There was probably more, but I can't recall.
I respect her physical abilities, but attitude goes a long way, and she has a bad one. Unless she shows respect towards other climbers, no matter what type of climbing they do, she will be disliked.
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stevep
Jul 14, 2004, 8:15 PM
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I don't know that I and others are judging Tori. What's mostly been said is that she has been well-marketed, and that it is unfortunate that there are other climbers just as, or more accomplished, that have not received the same media attention or sponsorship (though some of them may not want it).
What I did say, and having been a judge at some of the comps involved, I can say with some authority, is that there have been complaints that she received beta from family members in the audience. I believe she was DQ'ed from one of the Gorge Games comps for rules violations.
As far as pole vaulting goes, statements I've seen from her have been along the lines of that she sees pole vaulting as the best way to get a scholarship, and that this is why she's currently putting more effort into that than climbing. Not the she liked pole vaulting, but rather that it's a tool for success. She may actually really enjoy it, but publicly, her statements haven't leaned that way. This is somewhat the impression I have of her climbing as well. That is, it's not so much that she really enjoys it, but that she's good at it and likes the publicity. It's this perceived attitude that rubs many climbers the wrong way.
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climb_plastic
Jul 14, 2004, 8:37 PM
Post #129 of 339
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In reply to: Climb, Thanks for your insight. seems to me you are making an aweful lot of assumptions in your posts about a person you dont know as well. Maybe you want to reconsider being so critical of others for doing the same. The controversy she creates. I don't believe its just that she is good either. If that was the case, the winner of the two comps I watched would be creating the same controversy... Simple fact is they dont. nough said
Crimp,
I'm not making any assumptions....I'm just giving her the benefit of the doubt given that I don't know her personally. The only assumptions I've made is that she's one hell of a good climber/athlete and young.
You wonder why the other two competitors that beat her in the competition didn't get as much controversy then look at the headlines for the event when she lost: "13 year old phenom climber takes 3rd place among top women competitors" Then read further into the article and see who the article talks about the most. The article will go something like this...."In a surprise upset 13 year old champion climber Tori Allen came in third. Tory has been climbing since a child with monkeys in Africa and has unusually strong fingers and long arms..............blah blah blah blah blah.......Tori Allen is also a top pole vaulter.....blah blah blah blah blah....
The media sought her out and found something very interesting and will play on it because this is the type of person that people like to read about and know about and either cheer her on or hope she falls on her ass. Face it...you read up a lot of stuff on her yourself. If the article was about the other two ladies would you have read it? If you're so interested then do you remember who they were? You just remember that Tori didn't win.
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longalong
Jul 14, 2004, 9:12 PM
Post #130 of 339
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In reply to: Having been an Indiana track star that set a county record that held for 2 years, and a school record that held for 7 years, yet was never allowed ran in the state finals, I can say she's whinning! I was pissed at my coach, so rathger than writing letters and being published, I simply quit the team, and they were no longer able to lay claim to having a record of 2 years undefeated in the 4x100 relay, and immediately my county hurdles record was beat.
Thanks you tool for that sprayfest. No one here cares what you did back in your glory days. Wow...the county record for Indiana? Now that's impressive you Indiana track star. I also think you are too much of a tool to realize the point Soreeyes was trying to convey to you, but you go get 'em speed racer.
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climb_plastic
Jul 14, 2004, 9:16 PM
Post #131 of 339
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In reply to: As far as pole vaulting goes, statements I've seen from her have been along the lines of that she sees pole vaulting as the best way to get a scholarship, and that this is why she's currently putting more effort into that than climbing. Not the she liked pole vaulting, but rather that it's a tool for success.
If she could climb to get to college then what do you think she would choose to do?...climb or pole vault.
In reply to: She may actually really enjoy it, but publicly, her statements haven't leaned that way. This is somewhat the impression I have of her climbing as well. That is, it's not so much that she really enjoys it, but that she's good at it and likes the publicity. It's this perceived attitude that rubs many climbers the wrong way.
How did you get that impression? Sure she likes the publicity....so what? If she got no publicity at all I'll bet she'll still climb just as much as she does now. It sounds like she probably climbed more before she got the publicity. Besides if she really wanted publicity then she would drop climbing all together and just do pole vaulting.
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crimpandgo
Jul 14, 2004, 9:22 PM
Post #132 of 339
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Quote:
The media sought her out and found something very interesting and will play on it because this is the type of person that people like to read about and know about and either cheer her on or hope she falls on her ass. Face it...you read up a lot of stuff on her yourself. If the article was about the other two ladies would you have read it? If you're so interested then do you remember who they were? You just remember that Tori didn't win.
Crimp Response:
There you go making assumptions about me and you dont know me either. I am gonna go find a media person and get my story published.. :lol: Yes I do remember who the other climbers were that beat Tori. AND I read up on them all the time. I enjoy reading about every climber, whether I agree with their personal ethics or not. The difference is whether I am interested in what I am reading or whether I am just reading it for amusement. You can judge for yourself who falls in what catagory.
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climb_plastic
Jul 14, 2004, 9:39 PM
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In reply to: Crimp Response: There you go making assumptions about me and you dont know me either. I am gonna go find a media person and get my story published.. :lol: Yes I do remember who the other climbers were that beat Tori. AND I read up on them all the time. I enjoy reading about every climber, whether I agree with their personal ethics or not. The difference is whether I am interested in what I am reading or whether I am just reading it for amusement. You can judge for yourself who falls in what catagory.
Yeah alright I assumed you didn't know who the other two climbers(?) were...it might be because you said she came in "second I think" which means you think there was someone that beat her, but there might have been another...which means you forgot who it was. Sure you personally might have read about the two, or one, other climber(s) that beat her but you're probably about the only one.
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soreeyes
Jul 14, 2004, 9:40 PM
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In reply to: My point was rather than b---- to the governing body, either QUIT like I did when I wawsn't happy, or join the girl's team, where she is supposed to be in the first place!
So you are implying that it is far more admirable and beneficial to the community to QUIT then to muster the courage to initiate social change and resolve inequalities. I will refrain from commenting on your sexist remarks.
As you are in Indiana, did Cara McDonald interview you? If she did then I suppose her article would have some merit.
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usmc_2tothetop
Jul 14, 2004, 9:48 PM
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ROCK ON TORI..............DON'T STOP.
YOU DON'T STAND OUT, YOU STAND ABOVE
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climbsomething
Jul 14, 2004, 10:38 PM
Post #138 of 339
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In reply to: In reply to: Having been an Indiana track star that set a county record that held for 2 years, and a school record that held for 7 years, yet was never allowed ran in the state finals, I can say she's whinning! I was pissed at my coach, so rathger than writing letters and being published, I simply quit the team, and they were no longer able to lay claim to having a record of 2 years undefeated in the 4x100 relay, and immediately my county hurdles record was beat. Thanks you tool for that sprayfest. No one here cares what you did back in your glory days. Wow...the county record for Indiana? Now that's impressive you Indiana track star. I also think you are too much of a tool to realize the point Soreeyes was trying to convey to you, but you go get 'em speed racer.
Kids, when I was in the second grade I won first place at the district-wide spelling bee. 1987 was the final year to be a spelling superstar, a dictionary diva, a lexicon lord, because after that "comp" the bee was discontinued. See, I am thus the reigning champion. My record has gone untouched for 17 years- I AM the second-grade spelling legacy. No, really, I am sure there are lots of adults who couldn't spell "cougar" if their lives depended on it!
Therefore, owing to my great powers of literary grace and astonishing achievements, I am uniquely qualified to criticize this article, this Tori girl, and all the inferior tools in this thread. Bow DOWN, y'all. And Ripley's producers... my phone is on and charged.
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soreeyes
Jul 14, 2004, 10:46 PM
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[quote="tgreene"]
Not at all, I was saying that rather than complaining about inequalities in the sporting scene that she feels are holding her back, she should compete against the other girls (rather than the guys), so she can stand out to the college scouts.
In her statement she notes that Pole Vault is not an event that is open to female competitors in Indiana or Utah. In order for her to compete in Pole Vault she was allowed to participate with male competitors which makes it physically impossible for her to compete in other Track and Field events as a female because the events are segregated by gender in separate locations. The 'whining' that you have referred to were her arguments for enabling females to compete in Pole Vault statewide so she will be given the same opportunities to obtain a scholarship as the the other female Track and Field athletes who are competing in multiple events. In the state of Indiana she doesn't have the opportunity to compete in Pole Vault against her same sex. This validates the assumption that edited quotes are being utilized out of context to corroborate a biased assault.
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tgreene
Jul 14, 2004, 11:12 PM
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That being the case, I obviously misread the letter and over interpreted... Sorry! :(
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kman
Jul 14, 2004, 11:47 PM
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In reply to: One, they had her race against an older (and all-round) climber and she beat him (surprise surprise) and then she goes off and says: "Oh, he's not a real climber."
If this is true then that totally sucks. My opinion....a 5.10 tradster is a better climber than a 5.13 gym gumbie any day. Knowledge is power, it makes you a smarter, safer and therefore better climber.
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climb_plastic
Jul 14, 2004, 11:54 PM
Post #142 of 339
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In reply to: In reply to: One, they had her race against an older (and all-round) climber and she beat him (surprise surprise) and then she goes off and says: "Oh, he's not a real climber." If this is true then that totally sucks. My opinion....a 5.10 tradster is a better climber than a 5.13 gym gumbie any day. Knowledge is power, it makes you a smarter, safer and therefore better climber.
I think your opinion sucks worse. I've never seen a 5.13 gym climber that was a gumbie. I've seen a lot of self admitted 5.10 tradster gumbies and dorks...although they do have a lot of knowledge.
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wideguy
Jul 15, 2004, 12:16 AM
Post #143 of 339
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Never seen her climb in person,
Never seen her in an entire comp
Don't know her, or the Hubers or Lynn Hill, or Steph Davis or John Gill...
Can't climb for sh1t with ANY of them and I'd bet a bunch of you can't either.
Just saw her featured on a show called "More than Human" and they showed alot of highlight reels and did some physiology stuff and I gotta say, she looks like the real thing to me.
Sure she came of a little snobby or maybe conceited but in my dealing with local high Schools, she's not much different than most 15 yr. olds.
My question is why do you care? She climbs hard. Period. Does it make some people feel better to be better people to compensate for the fact that she's a stronger climber?
As you go about your day, prior to this post, did anyone really give a second's thought to her in your daily life?
What's the big deal?
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crimpandgo
Jul 15, 2004, 12:32 AM
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More than Human????
You have to be shi!tting me? Why do we care? because most of us are sick and tired of all the media coverage she gets. read the rest of the posts it is pretty well stated..
I would rather hear about climbers like scott corey who put their climbing to good use - raising money for 9/11 victims.. Where is the media coverage for good causes like this?
I dont really care actually. My guess is no here really does care. Its just a topic to discuss, like all the rest of the topics on this sight. But I really would like to see a push for coverage of other topics worthy or the title "More than Human"
Give me a freakin break :shock:
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the_pirate
Jul 15, 2004, 12:43 AM
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Is there a Tori Allen countdown to 18 clock? Now that would be some parental marketing savy.
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ropedope
Jul 15, 2004, 2:31 AM
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whoever wrote that is a dipsh*t...let the girl do what she wants. ill be up front about this: shes hot and a gifted climber who loves life. i respect that above all other qualities of a person.
and about us being antisocial and hostile towards new climbers?.......what?...i dont care, as long as theyre not full of sh*t and cocky like every other sport on earth.
"Serious rock-climbing is largely an individual sport. There are no cheering crowds, teammates, refs or coaches"<---as far as im concerned, me n my partner are better teammates than any football playing qb n receiver will ever be. and no crowds? its better that way, makes for better concentration. and im my own coach...thank you
rock on,
milo
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redbullclimbing
Jul 15, 2004, 2:49 AM
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There was an article about tori allen and emily harrington in Climbing a while ago and it was extremely biased towards Emily and did portray Tori as a snobby 15 year old in my opinion. What I want to know is how a girl who grew up in Africa with missionaries could be a snob.
I do think that the article was a misconception of climbing and what come climbers are like, but honestly does it even matter. I got into this sport to get away from soccer parents and to do something that i am completely in love with and although i understand the argument of her taking up alot of the medias attention and although i am not crazy about it either i just kind of feel like i would rather climb then worry about tori allen.
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kman
Jul 15, 2004, 2:52 AM
Post #148 of 339
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In reply to: I think your opinion sucks worse.
Like I care what you think there plastic_puller. Go back to the gym and pose.
In reply to: I've never seen a 5.13 gym climber that was a gumbie.
I have.
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beth23
Jul 15, 2004, 3:45 AM
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In reply to: What I want to know is how a girl who grew up in Africa with missionaries could be a snob.
It was probably Georgie's doing. You know west African monkeys are - like - TOTAL snobs! They're just oozing with attitude. :P Maybe if the poor girl had little human playmates growing up she wouldn't have had to socialize with monkeys and other primates with 'tude. :wink:
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climb_plastic
Jul 15, 2004, 4:29 AM
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In reply to: In reply to: I think your opinion sucks worse. Like I care what you think there plastic_puller. Go back to the gym and pose. In reply to: I've never seen a 5.13 gym climber that was a gumbie. I have.
The difference is that the 5.13 gym climber you call a gumby can't beat Tori up a speed climb route but he could at least easily lead the speed route as a warm up and down climb it where the 5.10 tradster would get pumped out and call take. I'd love to be able to climb it like Tori but climbing like the 5.13 climber is ok too...I'd be embarrassed if I got pumped out and called take.
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