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dirtineye
Mar 16, 2004, 11:25 AM
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In reply to: "I don't want to climb harder" is just an excuse. People who aren't trying to climb harder are just lacking motivation.
Hey that's a little presumtuous. Some people just like going up a great 5.6 for the view and the fun of being on the rock. Some don't care to do anything but climb established routes.
In climbing, you are allowed to do as you choose for your own reasons LOL.
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okinawatricam
Mar 17, 2004, 1:23 AM
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I didn't say that those who climb easy routes for fun are not climbers or unmotivated, I said people who say they don't want to climb harder are lacking motivation and make up an excuse instead of being honest about it.
I love climbing easy routes, and I do every chance I get; I also love to push my limit, and I do every chance I get.
I actually don't enjoy putting up routes as much as climbing established routes, just too much work. Unfortunately, I live in an area where, if I want to climb, I have to develop the cliff.
If climber didn't want to "climb harder” and climbed just to enjoy the view, why not hike around back. As climbers, we seek challenges, the more we climb the better we get, the better we get the more we climb harder routes. Wanting to climb harder is something we all want to do but are afraid to say aloud for fear of being judge. The same is true of our other endeavors, motivation and ambition are considered unspeakables.
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ikefromla
Mar 17, 2004, 2:57 AM
Post #178 of 198
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In reply to: I use grades to judge my own improvement, and whether or not I need to train harder. They help me gauge my climbing, and keep pushing myself harder. I guess you could say I care about them then. I use them as a way to push myself, because for me, climbing something hard is the joy in it. Climbing something that I have to try for a very long time. Now of course there are the ultra classics, whatever the grade, and I climb those as well. Climbing just would not be as fun for me if I sat around and did laps on a 5.11 all day or something, even if the route was totally bad ass. I usually get on somethin hard for me, then go and try to do the bad ass highballs, or super classic easier things.
my buddy Fish here seems to be on to something. I second.
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dirtineye
Mar 17, 2004, 3:16 AM
Post #179 of 198
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In reply to: I didn't say that those who climb easy routes for fun are not climbers or unmotivated, I said people who say they don't want to climb harder are lacking motivation and make up an excuse instead of being honest about it. I love climbing easy routes, and I do every chance I get; I also love to push my limit, and I do every chance I get. I actually don't enjoy putting up routes as much as climbing established routes, just too much work. Unfortunately, I live in an area where, if I want to climb, I have to develop the cliff. If climber didn't want to "climb harder? and climbed just to enjoy the view, why not hike around back. As climbers, we seek challenges, the more we climb the better we get, the better we get the more we climb harder routes. Wanting to climb harder is something we all want to do but are afraid to say aloud for fear of being judge. The same is true of our other endeavors, motivation and ambition are considered unspeakables.
I just don't think you can presume to speak for all climbers and why they climb. Why should every climbier want to climb harder? Is climbing hard the goal of climbing, or is climbing of any sort perhaps the goal for some at least?
I'll state that I wish to climb harder, I want to climb as hard as I possibly can, but I don't expect every climber to share that view. Some people are very happy as 5.6-5.7 climbers. They don't care to climb any harder than that.
How would you feel if I, as someone who lives to do FAs, said that Okinawatricam is a lazy bum who is unmotivated and not a real climber bacause he does not like to develop new routes, and everyone who climbs really wants to develop new routes because that is the hardest best thing in climbing? Wouldn't that sound rediculous?
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robmcc
Mar 17, 2004, 3:22 AM
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I like to challenge myself, sure, but that's not the most important. Absolute grade isn't it at all. If I wanted to climb harder grades, I'd stick to top rope or sport, but I want the mental challenge, so I'm still into trad pretty exclusively.
I don't really care if I ever climb 5.13 or 5.14s. I want to be able to climb a little harder than I can now. I'll plateau someday, and that's fine. Then I'll look for other ways to make it interesting. Alpine or ice, maybe. Maybe I'll finally switch to sport, God help me.
Ultimately, though, I find climbing with good friends to be so much more rewarding than climbing hard. I hope I'm fortunate to always have such great people to climb with. Give me that, and I'll happily stay in the lower grades forever.
Rob
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okinawatricam
Mar 17, 2004, 3:27 AM
Post #181 of 198
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I said we all want to climb harder, not we all want to climb the higher grades. Yes there is a diference.
Climbing harder means improving your current level of climbing. Climbing the higher grades means climbing 13/14 or 15.
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dirtineye
Mar 17, 2004, 3:48 AM
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OKi,
what you are saying is the same thing as saying, if you make 100k dollars a year, you should want to make more. But, a lot of people are very happy making 100k a year, and don't care to make more.
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okinawatricam
Mar 17, 2004, 4:01 AM
Post #183 of 198
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Actually, very few people are happy with what they make, when they know it is possible to make more.
Most people live one circle outsside of their finicial means. Take for exsample an employee who makes $100.00 a year, the boss comes in and says hey I am giving you a raise to $125.00 a year. Does the employee who is making $100 say, thanks, but I don't want it, I am happy making what I make now?
Same job. Same location. Same schedule.
Just a raise best on merit.
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dirtineye
Mar 17, 2004, 4:06 AM
Post #184 of 198
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NO you are confusing windfall with effort now. Money just dropping into your lap is not the same as working harder for more money.
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okinawatricam
Mar 17, 2004, 4:13 AM
Post #185 of 198
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That is exactly what I am saying about climbing, people who say they don’t want to climb harder lack motivation.
In the case of money, they lack the motivation to work harder to earn more, so they say,” I am fine with what I make, I don’t need more.” All that is an excuse.
Climbing is the same way. If those climbers could magically climb the harder grades with no extra effort, they would.
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dirtineye
Mar 17, 2004, 4:15 AM
Post #186 of 198
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But you say everyone wants to climb harder, and that those that do not lack motivation.
well, if you really DON"T want to climb harder, maybe motivation to climb harder is not even relevant. Maybe it is like asking a cow if it want's to drive a ferrari.
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okinawatricam
Mar 17, 2004, 4:25 AM
Post #187 of 198
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I lost you on the cow thing. All climbers are cappable of climbing harder than they do, a cow could never drive, where is the relationship here.
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climb_plastic
Mar 17, 2004, 6:06 AM
Post #188 of 198
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What's the hardest grade you ever climbed? If you can answer that then you do care.
Do you wish you can climb a higher grade? Of course you do.
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nagatana
Mar 17, 2004, 8:41 AM
Post #189 of 198
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In reply to: ..people who say they don’t want to climb harder lack motivation.
People who say they want to climb harder lack contentment. :wink:
I'd like to eventually climb .12/.13's. It mainly has to do with the routes I'd love to get on someday, 'specially when viewing all the beautiful crags in our photo gallery. I want to climb everything--as long as there exists a route I can't climb, I'll desire to climb harder.
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dirtineye
Mar 17, 2004, 11:41 AM
Post #190 of 198
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If we are going to continue in high RC.com style, we need to start insulting each other mightily now. :lol: :lol: :lol:
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sleepy
Mar 17, 2004, 10:38 PM
Post #191 of 198
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I love climbing tougher grades. Sometimes it is actually easier. The crux is different for everyone in a way. The first time I started climbing I had so much trouble with a 5.6 crack. I went to a 5.7 and flashed it without breathing hard. If you don't try anything harder you'll never go farther and find out what you can do. Go ahead what do you have to loose.
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dontfall
Mar 17, 2004, 11:48 PM
Post #192 of 198
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i may not be able to climb super hard routes but I try to challenge myself in some way everytime I attempt a new route, whether roped or non. So yes, I should say I do care how hard I climb. I want to be able to climb shit someday im my life that would be almost impossible to do. Thats my ultimate goal in my climbing life.
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ebag
Mar 17, 2004, 11:49 PM
Post #193 of 198
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I want to climb harder grades because I know I can, whether it's a jump from 5.10 to 5.11 or 5.13 to 5.14. Currently, I'm moving slowly through .12s, and hope to (maybe) do my first .13 this year. However, I don't like to focus on numbers and forget about the experience. But at the same time (in my opinion, thus far), harder grades present more challenging and rewarding experiences. Plus, the lines (on harder grades, to me) tend to be more aesthetically pleasing, with fewer holds and good, clean lines. I know the day will come when I can't progress towards harder grades, and then I will still be happy, just climbing.
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ipsofacto
Mar 25, 2004, 6:46 PM
Post #194 of 198
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I would take this one-step further by saying that if a person has not reached 5.12 after a set period, that they should relinquish all claims to the human race. Can a man still call himself a man if he has not climbed 5.12 or 5.13 after 2-3 years of climbing? I do not think so, and it is my belief that they would prefer to parade in front of a mirror clad in women's frilly underthings. Furthermore, perhaps the reason that they are having such difficulty reaching the higher grades is that their alternate lifestyle consumes all of their attention, not to mention the time expended in traveling to gay pride parades.
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reedcrr
Mar 26, 2004, 12:44 PM
Post #195 of 198
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Grades are meant so that a climber can be aware when they are going above their limit and capability, meant for safety...so we don't have to rescue you! Case in point if you climb 5.9 you would have to have a death wish to partner on a multi-pitch 5.13+. As with anything in life when you arrive at the next level you are not satisfied until you go higher. Think education or your career or playing blackjack for that matter. We are competative by nature, either against someone or ourself. Grades in climbing and "chasing them" is part of the game...if is wasn't then everyone would stop at 5.0 or stop climbing all together!
We love to brag and tell our friends about our latest redpoint... we love the feeling of accomplishing the seemingly impossible, we love adventure and the thrill of fear and the feeling of overcoming our fears, if not we wouldn't be climbers.
Now you have the right to stop at a certain comfort level and say no more but are you really happy and "satisfied", when your best friend is 3 grades above you? Chances are if you climb 10 then you will want to be able to climb 12 and so on. Maybe so you can brag about climbing 12's...maybe so you can say you did it...maybe you are trying to prove to someone you are brave and not a wuss. Only you know your motives!
"Hard" grades are anything beyond your abilities that scares the crap out of you and keeps you coming back for more! And yes all climbers want to climb harder and better, be honest with yourself! Now get off the couch and go climbing! Does it really matter that someone in the mags just climbed 5.15, yes it does because as soon as you read it you start to imagine yourself climbing that grade and getting your mug all over the cover! Back to reality folks! Acknowledge your dependence on the grades!
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gat
Mar 26, 2004, 1:40 PM
Post #196 of 198
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I want to climb harder and this desire will never go away. I'd like to think it will go away and I'll be content toiling along enjoying the day, but I know that can't happen. It's against my nature.
In reply to: That is exactly what I am saying about climbing, people who say they don’t want to climb harder lack motivation.
That's an inaccurate blanket statement...those who don't want to climb harder lack motivation. I know someone who doesn't want to climb harder, it's due to the f-word...Fear.
I find it acceptable to say "I don't want to put forth the effort to climb harder". This statement may not be due at all to lack of motivation. We must consider "opportunity cost" - The value of the best alternative to a given choice, or the value of resources in their next best use. In regard to time, the opportunity cost of time spent on one activity is the value of the best alternative activity that the person might engage in at that time.
Clinbing is not the only thing in life for some of us. For example, I run and I have certain goals set that I'd like to achieve on my feet. It takes time to acheive these goals. Every week I spend several hours running, this time could be devoted to climbing on my home wall. If I spent at least some of this time climbing instead of running, I could progress through the grades faster, but I don't want to. Is it due to lack of motivation? No.
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rockcentrick
Mar 26, 2004, 1:43 PM
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Me I would rather climb a long route then a tuff one, I care about grade cause it give more possibility. One of my best climb ever was Royal Arches, 5.6 , 12 pitch or so
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markc
Mar 26, 2004, 3:33 PM
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In reply to: As with anything in life when you arrive at the next level you are not satisfied until you go higher. Think education or your career or playing blackjack for that matter. We are competative by nature, either against someone or ourself. Grades in climbing and "chasing them" is part of the game...if is wasn't then everyone would stop at 5.0 or stop climbing all together!
That is not universal. I feel rather content with my level of formal education. I have friends chasing higher and higher degrees, and I know it's not for me. I don't feel inferior or that I lack the aptitude. I realize further education isn't the means to my goals. (It's also worth noting that I could take classes for free, as I'm employed at a university.)
I am also content with my occupation. I enjoy where I work and who I work with. I'm fine with the fact that I make less money than my wife, and significantly less than friends. A job is what I do, it is not who I am. While I'd appreciate more money, I'm not hurting.
My climbing goals are primarily to climb better, and hopefully harder. I am not terribly bold, and I have yet to find my upper limit trad climbing. I'll be content if I find that somewhere near my sport limit. I'd rather improve in efficiency of placements, quick change-overs, rope-handling, speed, etc. That will open up longer climbs at my current level, which would be great.
I enjoy repeating fun familiar routes with friends as much as pushing myself. If I can enjoy climbing the same easy grades for the rest of my life, I guess I'd count myself lucky. Climbing harder would certainly increase my options, but I'd much rather enjoy the trip than focus solely on the destination. I try to be a realist. I know I'll never be in a magazine, be it Climbing or Playgirl. I'm certainly not interested in the shenanigans required to get in either.
2¢,
mark
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