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akaerik21
Dec 16, 2006, 3:54 AM
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my roommate is shopping for climbing and has mad rock shoes in mind but he really doesn't know to much about them so i told him i would drop a line and see if any one had any opinion on those or other climbing shops for beginners and if it makes a difference he's mainly going to do bouldering and hes 6' if that means anything
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bues0022
Dec 16, 2006, 5:08 AM
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Well, seeing as how none of the experts have chimed in, I thought I'd give you what they all told me a long time ago when I asked the same question...
First, do some digging on here, there's tons of other people who have asked the same question. Unfortunately, that's where lots of the help on here stops.
But, seeing as how I'm bored tonight I'll fill you in with more. Go to a local climbing gym or climbing store. Talk to them. (if your local "climbing store" is a outdoor store make sure the person you're talking to actually knows something, many will try to help, but actually don't know a whole lot)
A good beginner shoe will be comfortable. You don't want to go too aggressive too quick. Once your friend has the bug enough, he won't mind his feet being in agony as long as he's climbing. You also don't need to spend a ton on the first pair. It would really suck to buy a $120 pair of shoes to find out you don't really like the sport a whole lot.
So, for entry level shoes...every company has them. Some may even be aimed at entry level. Do some more research, and more people are likely to help on here if you ask an informed quesion. (i.e. what do you think about shoe X vs. Y? I know that X has ____ but Y has ____, which is actually better and what is just a gimmick?) Hope this helps.
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medicus
Dec 16, 2006, 6:17 AM
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My first pair of shoes that I got were Mad Rock Flash shoes. I got them on sale for $55, and they are working out great for me. The only thing I wished I had done differently were getting a full size down instead of just a half size, but in all fairness, I thought the pain was killer for the first 2 weeks or so, and then they stretched and I learned from the mistake. A friend of mine bought $120 pair of shoes the same way I got mine, and now he's stuck with $120 pair of too loose shoes, but it was both of our first shoe purchases. My opinion, just about any shoe is going to be good for getting into the sport. I now know what I like and don't like about my shoes, so when I go to get a more expensive pair (because the climbing bug apparently did more than just bite me) I will know what to look for and I will know a little bit more about how I think they should fit me.
I personally would just caution on spending too much money on the first pair unless he has a load of money just lying around that he wants to spend. I've unnecessarily been abusive to my shoes trying different things and pulling n00b moves in them, so I'm quite happy that I went with a cheaper pair.
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kjohnnytarr
Dec 16, 2006, 6:46 AM
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Mad Rock shoes was started by some guys who walked out on 5.10, I've been told. So, they had some fine inside knowledge on proven designs.
My shoe right now is the MadRock Flash. I've heard a lot of people complain about durability, but I haven't had any issues. Real comfy, nice price, gets me up the wall.
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jimdavis
Dec 16, 2006, 7:15 AM
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Evolv makes a better shoe for the money these days.
Also, their rep on here treats people like shit...I put a thread up about this a while back. titled "madrock: the user and the brand" you can find it if this interests you.
I won't buy from companies that have bad customer service, so I won't touch MR shoes. My Flashes climbed well enough, but my Evolv's work a lot better.
Cheers,
Jim
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medicus
Dec 16, 2006, 9:29 AM
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Well, I have never dealt with Mad Rock customer service and never will either. I buy from a retailer, and the retailer I buy from has great customer service, so when I go into their store, they help me pick things out. My shoes have worked just fine. I'm not tearing through 5.13+ climbs, so frankly, a lot of shoes are going to work fine for me.
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medicus
Dec 16, 2006, 10:12 AM
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Also, does one bad customer service rep mean that their entire line of customer service is bad? I don't know that I would feel comfortable saying I would never buy from Mad Rock because of one representative on an internet forum.
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ninja_climber
Dec 16, 2006, 11:42 AM
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I had 2 pairs of Mad Rocks shoes. The Hookers and the Flashes. Mad Rock rubber wears waaaay to fast, and even though they are cheap and labeled as a noob shoe...they arn't. If you have bad footwork you will tear them up in 5-6 months. The Mad Rubber is verry sticky,so that is a plus. I use the Flashes outside for slabby routes, Hookers inside for gym climbing, and I have a diffrent pair of Miuras for hard routes outside. If he gets Mad Rocks,make sure he gets a soft shoe, and not a hard one like the Phoenixes, that way he will learn some footwork.
Hope that helps!
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curt
Dec 16, 2006, 7:50 PM
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medicus wrote: Also, does one bad customer service rep mean that their entire line of customer service is bad? I don't know that I would feel comfortable saying I would never buy from Mad Rock because of one representative on an internet forum.
jimdavis seems to have a real hard-on for Mad Rock that he just won't let go. Personally, I find his comments to border on libel--as I have had nothing but great customer service from Mad Rock. I suspect his bad experience with Mad Rock was largely his own fault. Also, Evolv certainly makes a fine shoe, but to say outright they are "better" than Mad Rocks (particularly in terms of performance) is a statement that jimdavis is in no position to make.
Curt
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ltj999
Dec 16, 2006, 7:57 PM
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i have had the mad rock phenoixs (spelling?) as my first pair of climbing shoes and they were awsome. great great shoes for just begining. as i have started to move into the more technical range i treated myself to a pair of 5.10 galieos which are amazing, but for a first pair of climbing shoes, the phenoixes are a fantastic fantasic choice.
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jimdavis
Dec 16, 2006, 8:29 PM
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curt wrote: medicus wrote: Also, does one bad customer service rep mean that their entire line of customer service is bad? I don't know that I would feel comfortable saying I would never buy from Mad Rock because of one representative on an internet forum. jimdavis seems to have a real hard-on for Mad Rock that he just won't let go. Personally, I find his comments to border on libel--as I have had nothing but great customer service from Mad Rock. I suspect his bad experience with Mad Rock was largely his own fault. Also, Evolv certainly makes a fine shoe, but to say outright they are "better" than Mad Rocks (particularly in terms of performance) is a statement that jimdavis is in no position to make. Curt
Try again. I've climbed in both, sold both, watched a rental fleet of Madrock shoes fall apart quite rapidly, and watched a community of climbers have negative experiences with Madrock shoes. I've since seen many of my peers switch to Evolv, with me, and they've all been quite happy (only drawback we've seen is the lining can get pretty hot.)
Curt, if you read the thread, you'd have seen that my opinion of Madrock's customer service is not due to any specific personal interaction I had with them. More due to how Joe behaved on these boards.
FYI, this is not just one rep being a prick to someone once....It's the supervisor for US sales being a jerk time and time again on these boards. His company was notified about his actions, and couldn't have cared less how Joe was treating Madrock customers.
Want to talk about Libel? How about Joe's statments regarding Sterling Rope and their dry treatments, in a thread about a dry coatings on ropes?
As if his action on here weren't enough, he physically assulted (punched in the face) an employee of Sterling Rope at a trade show in Germany.
Those are the facts, and I choose not to support such a business. If you guys are OK with supporting such a business...go ahead. I've never told you not to. But you should be aware of how they opperate before you give them your money.
Jim
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medicus
Dec 16, 2006, 9:11 PM
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I am thoroughly annoyed at just reading this thread. The person is asking about if Mad Rock shoes would be okay for a beginner. I have been climbing for 4 months. Mine have worked very well for me. I don't care about the customer service, I just want to climb. Arguing over one petty sales representative that posts on internet forums is beyond me. Have fun with the arguments over the sales rep guy instead of the shoes, I'm leaving to go climb for the weekend.
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jh_angel
Dec 16, 2006, 9:12 PM
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I've owned the Mugens (original design), Hookers (original design), Flashes and the Locos. I've loved all of them except the Locos and it seems as if they fixed the things I didn't like about them with the new Super Locos. As mentioned before, if you don't have good footwork they don't last long. I've managed to get a full year out of a pair climbing 20+ hours a week on 'em.
On a side note to the other topic of this thread; I've never gotten anything but kindness from Mad Rock reps and who the hell is this Joe guy that we should know him by just his first name?
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medicus
Dec 16, 2006, 9:17 PM
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Also, what evolv's are you talking about? The cheapest pair I could find was $78... which is $21 more than my pair of mad rocks. $21 may just be $21, but that $21 helps out with a lot of the initial costs of just getting into climbing.
Now I really am going to go pack for my trip, so if/when you answer this, I probably won't get it for several days.
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jimdavis
Dec 16, 2006, 9:27 PM
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medicus wrote: I have been climbing for 4 months. Mine have worked very well for me. I don't care about the customer service, I just want to climb. Arguing over one petty sales representative that posts on internet forums is beyond me.
Maybe when you've been climbing a little longer, and have a need to interact with the companies you buy from, then you'll care about customer service. to me, that's what sets a good company apart from a bad one.
if you don't care, fine. customer service is paramount to me.
Joe, is Joe Garland...user name: madrock. I haven't seen him on here since he went to punch out that rep last year.
Jim
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jimdavis
Dec 16, 2006, 9:34 PM
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medicus wrote: Also, what evolv's are you talking about? The cheapest pair I could find was $78... which is $21 more than my pair of mad rocks. $21 may just be $21, but that $21 helps out with a lot of the initial costs of just getting into climbing. Now I really am going to go pack for my trip, so if/when you answer this, I probably won't get it for several days.
Last I checked Flashes went for $69. Quests at $70-$80 are a better buy, IMO. Different shoe, but better quality.
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curt
Dec 17, 2006, 1:14 AM
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Jim, you're a real piece of work. First you say:
"jimdavis wrote: Curt, if you read the thread, you'd have seen that my opinion of Madrock's customer service is not due to any specific personal interaction I had with them.
Then you say:
jimdavis wrote: Maybe when you've been climbing a little longer, and have a need to interact with the companies you buy from, then you'll care about customer service.
You're simply talikng out of your ass. Plus, no one cares what shoes you or your friends climb in, since most people I know could climb anything you have ever done wearing swim fins. Give the Mad Rock slandering a rest, for Christ sake.
Curt
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medicus
Dec 17, 2006, 1:18 AM
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Had a few minutes to kill while waiting on the buddies to get packed. Just because I have only been climbing for 4 months, doesn't mean I haven't had experience with companies. I have dealt with many companies, and while I understand the importance of customer service, I think you might just be going a little overboard. You even said yourself that Joe hasn't been around. You think maybe Mad Rock fired him? I wouldn't be surprised to find out that they did. So basically, you might be refusing to look at products from this company because of an ex-employee who posted on internet forums. When I bought my current laptop, customer service was important to me, and basically, I decided not to buy from one company over another because of it. However, I did not refuse to look at the other company just because I had bad experience with their rep who posted on forums. They still had good products, but ultimately I went with a different company. I don't fully appreciate being told that just because I have only been climbing for 4 months, means that I don't understand what makes a good company different from a bad company. That remark, while you made it subtle is insulting to me. Does this mean that for the next 4 years I am going to be posting stuff saying that your opinion is invalid, of course not. The reason I say what I did about Mad Rock, is I believe they are great for beginners. At least if nothing else, mine has been great for me. The question at hand was pertaining to another beginner. I thought my opinion of how the SHOES were would be acceptable, but because I have only been climbing for four months, I apparently don't understand as much as I should.
The thing that gets me, is I do understand where you are coming from. I have been there and done that, but from reading some of Joe's posts, and looking at all that... he has like 81 posts here... and none of them are very recent at all. It seems to me, that there may be a bit of a grudge being held.
Are Mad Rock shoes okay for a beginner? As a fellow beginner I say yes, because they are cheap and they work for learning basics. I will upgrade later on to more expensive/nicer shoes when these get worn out. If there is a bad customer service rep when I'm looking for a new pair of shoes that insults me, I probably wouldn't get their product, but as far as I can see, Joe hasn't been around for a long time, so for now I'll stay pretty dang happy with my Mad Rock Flashes that I bought for $55.
(This post was edited by medicus on Dec 17, 2006, 1:23 AM)
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jimdavis
Dec 17, 2006, 1:28 AM
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curt wrote: Jim, you're a real piece of work. First you say: "jimdavis wrote: Curt, if you read the thread, you'd have seen that my opinion of Madrock's customer service is not due to any specific personal interaction I had with them. Then you say: jimdavis wrote: Maybe when you've been climbing a little longer, and have a need to interact with the companies you buy from, then you'll care about customer service. You're simply talikng out of your ass. Plus, no one cares what shoes you or your friends climb in, since most people I know could climb anything you have ever done wearing swim fins. Give the Mad Rock slandering a rest, for Christ sake. Curt
It's only slander if it isn't true...everything I've bought up about Joe can be seen publicly on these boards. As to your friends climbing everything I can in swimming fins...right. THAT'S not slanderous or anything...dipshit.
Why is it I'm talking out of my ass again? Try reading it again if you don't get it. Your a smart guy, right Curt?
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jimdavis
Dec 17, 2006, 1:45 AM
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Medicus, I hope your right, that he did get fired. He's been fired from every other place he's worked at in the industry, too! Unfortunatly, I contacted the company asking them is his behavior was acceptable by them, they didn't have a problem with it, and he's one of the senior staff at MR. So I don't see him going anywhere. As of last year, he was still with the company.
He treated the buying public like shit on here, and I spoke up about it. I've worked with plenty of reps in the paddlesports, and climbing industry, and he shouldn't have a job doing it. He took on the name of his company as his username, and acted like a jerk. If he wants to do it afterwork, that's his business....when he's posting using his company's name...that bugs me.
I flat out told him I'd give him a hard time about it until he appoligized to the users and the boards here for his actions...he didn't, tried to insult me as well...and I'm keeping my promise.
You said customer service isn't important to you, and that you've only been at it for 4 months. Well, bottom line is your gonna have questions about gear...and if you've been climbing for 4 months, and only have a pair of shoes and some other gym gear or whatever...then you probably haven't gone out shopping for a rack and contacted companies with some specific questions about their gear. So, given that you have a pretty limited experience with this...I said what I did. You can take offense if you want, it wasn't intended. If I wanted to insult you, my post would have sounded more like Curt's.
Again, my comments have spoken to the customer service and company presence on these boards. If you like their products and choose to support them...then go ahead. Your money buys a product, but it also supports a company...
Jim
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medicus
Dec 17, 2006, 2:03 AM
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jimdavis wrote: Medicus, I hope your right, that he did get fired. He's been fired from every other place he's worked at in the industry, too! Unfortunatly, I contacted the company asking them is his behavior was acceptable by them, they didn't have a problem with it, and he's one of the senior staff at MR. So I don't see him going anywhere. As of last year, he was still with the company. He treated the buying public like shit on here, and I spoke up about it. I've worked with plenty of reps in the paddlesports, and climbing industry, and he shouldn't have a job doing it. He took on the name of his company as his username, and acted like a jerk. If he wants to do it afterwork, that's his business....when he's posting using his company's name...that bugs me. I flat out told him I'd give him a hard time about it until he appoligized to the users and the boards here for his actions...he didn't, tried to insult me as well...and I'm keeping my promise. You said customer service isn't important to you, and that you've only been at it for 4 months. Well, bottom line is your gonna have questions about gear...and if you've been climbing for 4 months, and only have a pair of shoes and some other gym gear or whatever...then you probably haven't gone out shopping for a rack and contacted companies with some specific questions about their gear. So, given that you have a pretty limited experience with this...I said what I did. You can take offense if you want, it wasn't intended. If I wanted to insult you, my post would have sounded more like Curt's. Again, my comments have spoken to the customer service and company presence on these boards. If you like their products and choose to support them...then go ahead. Your money buys a product, but it also supports a company... Jim
I have an entire sport climbing rack. I have contacted people about the gear they sell and not the companies. I was taking an introduction to climbing through my local climbing gym, so there are many people there with more knowledge than me that I have learned from. I can ask them questions about gear, and they answer without trying to sell me certain brands over others. They tell me what has worked for them and what they think I should get as a newer climber. I have much more than just "gym" gear. The places I shop for gear, I also love the customer service they offer me. They are the ones that hooked me up with the mad rock shoes, and they were nice. Granted, they are retailers, but as I said, they also provided me with more of an unbiased idea of what I should buy. I just don't appreciate being talked down to purely because I am a newer climber. I was saying customer service wasn't important to me with the intent of saying that as a beginner, I just wanted to get a cheap pair of shoes that would get me through my first few months. As for the "talking out of your ass comment," I believe he said that because you said you had previously had no direct contact with Joe, and then you said that direct contact with customer service is very important to you.
I only find offense with the way it seems that you are talking down to me. Even though I am only 4 months into this experience, I think as a beginner, I hold a valuable opinion of the shoes from a beginner's perspective. Anyways, my buddies are finished packing gear, so I'm heading out. Later
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jimdavis
Dec 17, 2006, 2:26 AM
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medicus wrote: I have an entire sport climbing rack. I have much more than just "gym" gear. I was saying customer service wasn't important to me with the intent of saying that as a beginner, I just wanted to get a cheap pair of shoes that would get me through my first few months. As for the "talking out of your ass comment," I believe he said that because you said you had previously had no direct contact with Joe, and then you said that direct contact with customer service is very important to you. I only find offense with the way it seems that you are talking down to me.
Sorry dude, but a set of draws doesn't constitute a rack, it's gym gear. When you start researching every cam, nut, hex, etc on the market....then we can talk.
I posted my opinions about Joe due to what I saw on these boards. I contacted his customer service dept about his behavior...they backed him, I know what I think about them.
The support I get from companies is important. How Madrock (the user, and considering that the company supported his actions, the company as well) treats their customers is unacceptable to me. Most every other company I've worked with has been extreemly helpful.
So what I said is true, it wasn't 1 specific personal interaction between Joe and I that caused me to speak up, it was the image he gave his company. However, how a company treats its customers, is important to me....so, where's the confussion with what I've said?
Jim
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curt
Dec 17, 2006, 3:03 AM
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jimdavis wrote: ...It's only slander if it isn't true...everything I've bought up about Joe can be seen publicly on these boards. As to your friends climbing everything I can in swimming fins...right. THAT'S not slanderous or anything...dipshit...
jimdavis's Logbook
2006-10-15 Red Point V0 Bilbo's Revenge
2006-10-14 Red Point V0 Cream
2006-10-10 Red Point 5.7 Funhouse
2006-10-10 Red Point 5.6 Thin Air ***
2006-10-09 Onsight 5.7 Slabs Direct
2006-10-09 Top Rope 5.5 Upper Refuse
2006-10-01 Red Point 5.7 Gunklandia **
2006-05-12 Top Rope 5.8 Thinner *
2005-02-16 Red Point WI3 Main Pillar
2004-09-25 Onsight 5.7 Old Town ***
2004-09-12 Top Rope 5.5 Standard Route
2004-05-16 Onsight 5.3 Betty
2004-05-16 Onsight 5.6 Spare Ribs
2004-05-14 Red Point 5.9 Happy Face
2004-05-05 Top Rope 5.8 Slice Of The Gunks
2004-05-05 Top Rope
2004-05-05 Top Rope 5.10c Route Awakening
2004-05-01 Top Rope 5.9 Wheaties
2004-05-01 Top Rope 5.10b Attitude Adjuster
2004-04-30 Red Point 5.4 Easy Stuff
2004-03-12 Red Point 5.8 Itching to Climb
2003-11-14 Hang Dog 5.9 They Died Laughing
2003-11-14 Hang Dog 5.8 Mantleshelf
2003-09-27 Top Rope 5.8 Alley Fox
2003-09-14 Hang Dog 5.9 Hard Stuff
2003-09-14 Red Point 5.9 Happy Face
2003-08-03 Red Point 5.6 Neophyte Delight
2003-07-04 Flash 5.10b Puss in Boots
2003-07-04 Red Point 5.9 Orange Sunshine
2003-07-04 Top Rope
2003-07-04 Flash 5.7 Dancing Nancy
2003-04-20 Onsight 5.5 Pried and Joy
2003-04-12 Top Rope 5.7 Foxy Lady
2003-04-12 Onsight 5.8 Upside Down Staircase
Sorry, I should have said "roller skates." That shit would be way too easy in swim fins. HaHa. fucking poseur.
Curt
(This post was edited by curt on Dec 17, 2006, 3:24 AM)
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jimdavis
Dec 17, 2006, 3:22 AM
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curt wrote: jimdavis wrote: ...It's only slander if it isn't true...everything I've bought up about Joe can be seen publicly on these boards. As to your friends climbing everything I can in swimming fins...right. THAT'S not slanderous or anything...dipshit... No, that is just a fact. You're one of the most clueless gumbies on this site--and you're trying, in this very thread, to tell another poster that they should have more experience before posting their opinion. Try looking in a mirror, weakmo. Curt
And your one of the most arrogant prick on this site. As for a clueless gumby...who's the genius that tried to argue that a Reebok is a good belay device?
I don't need to defend myself to you Curt, I've impressed enough people I've met personally, that anything you have to say in your pot-shot posts has little value to me.
Jim
(This post was edited by jimdavis on Dec 17, 2006, 3:25 AM)
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jimdavis
Dec 17, 2006, 3:30 AM
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curt wrote: jimdavis wrote: ...It's only slander if it isn't true...everything I've bought up about Joe can be seen publicly on these boards. As to your friends climbing everything I can in swimming fins...right. THAT'S not slanderous or anything...dipshit...
2006-10-15 Red Point V0 Bilbo's Revenge
2006-10-14 Red Point V0 Cream
2006-10-10 Red Point 5.7 Funhouse
2006-10-10 Red Point 5.6 Thin Air ***
2006-10-09 Onsight 5.7 Slabs Direct
2006-10-09 Top Rope 5.5 Upper Refuse
2006-10-01 Red Point 5.7 Gunklandia **
2006-05-12 Top Rope 5.8 Thinner *
2005-02-16 Red Point WI3 Main Pillar
2004-09-25 Onsight 5.7 Old Town ***
2004-09-12 Top Rope 5.5 Standard Route
2004-05-16 Onsight 5.3 Betty
2004-05-16 Onsight 5.6 Spare Ribs
2004-05-14 Red Point 5.9 Happy Face
2004-05-05 Top Rope 5.8 Slice Of The Gunks
2004-05-05 Top Rope
2004-05-05 Top Rope 5.10c Route Awakening
2004-05-01 Top Rope 5.9 Wheaties
2004-05-01 Top Rope 5.10b Attitude Adjuster
2004-04-30 Red Point 5.4 Easy Stuff
2004-03-12 Red Point 5.8 Itching to Climb
2003-11-14 Hang Dog 5.9 They Died Laughing
2003-11-14 Hang Dog 5.8 Mantleshelf
2003-09-27 Top Rope 5.8 Alley Fox
2003-09-14 Hang Dog 5.9 Hard Stuff
2003-09-14 Red Point 5.9 Happy Face
2003-08-03 Red Point 5.6 Neophyte Delight
2003-07-04 Flash 5.10b Puss in Boots
2003-07-04 Red Point 5.9 Orange Sunshine
2003-07-04 Top Rope
2003-07-04 Flash 5.7 Dancing Nancy
2003-04-20 Onsight 5.5 Pried and Joy
2003-04-12 Top Rope 5.7 Foxy Lady
2003-04-12 Onsight 5.8 Upside Down Staircase Sorry, I should have said "roller skates." That shit would be way too easy in swim fins. HaHa. fucking poseur. Curt
Only a short-sighted fool would both assume that the list in an ONLINE profile is complete and an accurate depiction of one's ability, as well as to assume that the difficulty at which one climbs has anything to do with their knowledge as a climber.
Perhaps a well known quote is worth repeating..."The best climber is the one having the most fun." I'm sure you can debate the merit of that statement at your next mensa meeting.
Jim
(This post was edited by jimdavis on Dec 17, 2006, 3:32 AM)
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