|
geeze
Mar 20, 2007, 10:43 AM
Post #1 of 57
(6042 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Oct 9, 2006
Posts: 39
|
being an older climber can any one suggest a lite training that could help my climbing,i have a climbing wall set at 35dg,climb twice a week.
my own training has left me with golfers elbow and the same thing in one of my knees any ideas,you see most training is aimed at 20 year olds which im not.im climbing 6c sport routes and would like to push it?
|
|
|
|
|
jammer
Mar 20, 2007, 12:20 PM
Post #2 of 57
(6013 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jun 25, 2002
Posts: 3472
|
Welcome to the Old Geezers Club! Just climb. Get off the home made wall and get on rock. Gyms are great for "practice" when it's too damn cold to get outside, or you're into comps. As you climb, you will learn and your muscles will remember. Patience, young jedi ... the force will guide you. Just remember ... outside!
|
|
|
|
|
geezergecko
Mar 20, 2007, 12:43 PM
Post #3 of 57
(5991 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Mar 26, 2002
Posts: 729
|
Yeah, outside climbing seems to be more "recoverable" in terms of body wear and tear. There is more variety of movement and more time spent resting between climbs. As for indoor climbing, quantity (lots of easy routes) causes less damage than quality (a few hard routes).
|
|
|
|
|
bagre_rei
Mar 20, 2007, 1:00 PM
Post #4 of 57
(5973 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Mar 29, 2006
Posts: 22
|
Hey, man you are not alone there! (I´m like 9 years younger than you, but it´s obvious that there are physical differences between a 20 y. o. and a 40 or 50 y. o.)
I´m not an expert, but I'd say heal first, train later.
What about a change towards some more technical/vertical climbs?
|
|
|
|
|
billl7
Mar 20, 2007, 1:00 PM
Post #5 of 57
(5973 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Oct 13, 2005
Posts: 1890
|
Me, I started climbing around 42 without every doing much exercise before for upper body strength. Ever since, my regime has been pretty regularly at 2 days per week at the gym (when not outside); they have ~35 foot vertical walls plus some ceiling routes that I haven't done much until lately. Over the years and on a few occasions, I had to lower the intensity of the workouts (i.e., easier routes) a couple times for a couple of months each due to modest strains in the elbow, fingers, shoulder.
After about 2 years, the aches have subsided and it has now been about 6 months without feeling hindered by concerns about straining something.
In the last several months, I started something that I think really helped: a good warmup. So at the gym which has ~35 foot vertical walls, I first climb up and down 3 or 4 times in a row before going off and playing on harder routes - I use any hold on the warmups so definitely not hard climbing. Again, this is on a vertical wall plus the holds are pretty big. Now I can't imagine starting without that.
35 degree wall? Sounds like more of a leg workout than for arms unless you mean overhanging. If it is overhanging then, yeah, a steady "diet" of that would have been too intense for me - probably even now.
Bill L
(This post was edited by billl7 on Mar 20, 2007, 1:02 PM)
|
|
|
|
|
naitch
Mar 20, 2007, 1:04 PM
Post #6 of 57
(5967 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Apr 17, 2002
Posts: 539
|
I don't know if you did a lot of climbing before you started training on the overhung wall but with age you need to start in very slowly and work up to the overhung training. I use to have a similar wall and ended up with a lot of aches and pains. When I sold my house I got rid of it and just do general fitness exercises and train the opposing muscles in fingers, arms, back and shoulders. I climb indoors at a gym during the winter but have avoided extended sessions on the overhung bouldering wall. I climb outdoors every chance I get as soon as I can hack the weather. I think moderation and working up to it are the key if you are going to train on an overhung wall. My three cents...
|
|
|
|
|
redpoint73
Mar 20, 2007, 1:08 PM
Post #7 of 57
(5965 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Aug 20, 2002
Posts: 1717
|
You might have elbow tendinitis, which is quite preventable. Wrist curls a few times a week will do wonders.
Check out the link:
http://climbinginjuries.com/elbow.htm
As far as the knee, I would think that it would be from twisting it, or weighting it in a way that stresses it, not from overuse like the elbows. Tearing some ligaments while climbing is somewhat common, and tough to treat w/o surgery.
|
|
|
|
|
billl7
Mar 20, 2007, 1:16 PM
Post #8 of 57
(5959 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Oct 13, 2005
Posts: 1890
|
Oh, by comparison, my son started climbing at the same time as I but at age 16; we took an outdoor climbing course together back then (almost 3 years ago). He left me in the dust after about 9 months and, as of about 6 months ago, he has been red pointing up to 5.12b sport routes (5.10c trad). Only a few times has he had strain concerns. 
|
|
|
|
|
gblauer
Moderator
Mar 20, 2007, 1:47 PM
Post #9 of 57
(5939 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Oct 4, 2002
Posts: 2824
|
Geeze...I would take a look at the Self Coached Climber by Dan M. Hague,Douglas Hunter.
They suggest a lot of drills and fitness routines for climbers of all ages. As an older climber, I am very sensitive to over training, injuries etc. I found that their book was very useful in planning my climbing and helping me achieve my climbing goals.
Good luck!
|
|
|
|
|
athletikspesifik
Mar 20, 2007, 2:19 PM
Post #10 of 57
(5908 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Nov 6, 2005
Posts: 50
|
Geeze, I would agree with some of what has been posted ie...warm up, how long have you been climbing before you started training on the overhang. I am not 50, but I will qualify for "Masters" class this year and I can tell you this: warm up slowly on a slab just working technique and getting a slight pump with recovery (10 min), do dynamic range of motion exercises (windmilling), do some push ups (how many depends on your current training status), do a few pull and chin ups, progress slowly in difficulty during your session, and stop climbing as soon as you notice your technique or strength waning, finish with static stretching and do some self-massage on your forearms while you are stretching and finally - get a professional massage once a month on your climbing specific muscles (forearms, biceps, back- especially rotator cuff arm pit area, neck).
David Wahl
www.athletikspesifik.com
|
|
|
|
|
dns-gne
Mar 28, 2007, 12:31 AM
Post #11 of 57
(5774 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Feb 18, 2007
Posts: 3
|
Our son got us started climbing when I was 52 and Dennis was 54--that was 3 years ago and we LOVE it! I agree with a lot of the suggestions of take it slow, warm up, stretch, climb. I have also found 2 other things that help. For aches, I take CoEnzyme Q10--especially at the end of real work-out. Q10 is the enzyme that makes the Krebs cycle happen--and the Krebs cycle is what rebuilds ATP (the energy source for muscles) and processes waste. So, extra Q10 can help recovery. The thing that has made a huge difference on the "tennis elbow" kind of stuff (I have a LOT of that kind of joint irritation) is accupuncture. It took 6 or 8 treatments the first time but now I go in when I first feel any joint trying to flare up and my accupuncturist can nip it in the bud.
My biggest frustration as an "older" climber? The lingo! What is redpoint? What is on-sight? etc!
|
|
|
|
|
bandycoot
Mar 28, 2007, 12:47 AM
Post #12 of 57
(5761 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Nov 25, 2002
Posts: 2028
|
As soon as you think that you're old, you will be. Don't just train like you're young, do your research and find out about injury prevention. My friend is 55 and climbs 13c. That's within a year of double hip replacement surgery also! He trains hard, but has learned the ins and outs of injuries over the years and his effort pays off. That said, one of his main strategies for climbing hard is staying light, at which he is very good at. Keep at it. Find out how to work around the injury, or prevent it. Stay young at heart!
Josh
|
|
|
|
|
dns-gne
Mar 28, 2007, 10:28 AM
Post #13 of 57
(5720 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Feb 18, 2007
Posts: 3
|
bandycoot wrote: In reply to: As soon as you think that you're old, you will be. Don't just train like you're young, do your research and find out about injury prevention. My friend is 55 and climbs 13c. Most of my adult life I have been pretty sedentary. I started to get active about 9 years ago and the last 3 years I have been very active--suddenly about a year ago, I realized that I am an athlete--I have re-made my identity--what fun! And I am certainly younger than I was 10 years ago! Anyway, your friend at 55 climbing 13c--how long has he (she?) been climbing? Dennis and I were talking at the gym over the week-end and he said something about not being 5.12 material because he started too late. I'm not convinced, particularly with him but just curious about the experience of other late bloomers. Also, please explain "stay light". Thanks for the post and the encouragement!
|
|
|
|
|
bandycoot
Mar 28, 2007, 2:49 PM
Post #14 of 57
(5667 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Nov 25, 2002
Posts: 2028
|
My friend started climbing in his early to mid 30s if I remember right. He was definitely an athlete before that, though. As for staying light, he says he's not getting any stronger so instead he has to get lighter!  He weighs about 139lbs and I've had multiple women say this exact thing to me while watching him climb, "Well, now I don't need to take an anatomy class. I can see every muscle in the human body." His body fat is lower than I've ever seen before.
Josh
|
|
|
|
|
squamishdirtbag
Mar 28, 2007, 3:43 PM
Post #15 of 57
(5622 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jul 18, 2005
Posts: 115
|
My 58yr old dad out climbs me! (im 19)
He doesn't train much maybe the odd trail run, but nothing serious. Just enjoy the climbing while you can forget the training.
|
|
|
|
|
dan2see
Mar 28, 2007, 8:36 PM
Post #16 of 57
(5585 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Mar 29, 2006
Posts: 1497
|
In 1992, I led "Yoyo" at Buffalo Crag near Toronto (single-pitch trad), and Roger (the same age as me) seconded. As he climbed up to the my belay, he said, "Hey Dan! we're pretty good for a team that's 100 years old!"
Now I've started climbing trad leads in the Rocky Mountains.
At first I was worried that my age might set me apart from the other climbers. But that doesn't happen. What sets me apart is that I know the names of the flowers, and rock types.
(This post was edited by dan2see on Mar 28, 2007, 8:38 PM)
|
|
|
|
|
rgold
Mar 29, 2007, 1:34 AM
Post #17 of 57
(5559 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Dec 3, 2002
Posts: 1804
|
I'm 63 and have been climbing for 49 years. I'm not a professional climber. have the usual responsibilities and other interests, and there have been long periods when my climbing was relatively infrequent and also of modest difficulty (5.8-5.9 trad).
There is no question that older people cannot train like younger people. It is much easier to injure yourself, both from overuse and from traumatic strain. When you do make progress, it will be slower than when you were younger, and it takes longer to recover from setbacks. I suspect that genetics plays an increasingly important role in what you can do and how far you can progress, so comparing yourself to others may be neither helpful nor encouraging. Even more than when you were young, you have to find pleasure in your own level of accomplishment and your ability to make whatever progress you are capable of.
Here are some things I've learned. Because geezerly differences are, I think, more pronounced than for younger people, I do not know how helpful they will be. And young people need to read something else; what I describe here won't accomplish anything for you.
1. Warming up. I think this is critical. I don't start climbing in the gym until I've done 20 minutes of aerobics and have broken a full sweat. This is followed by another 20 minutes of stretching: forearm stretches (an essential ingredient in keeping tendonitis at bay) shoulder stretches, and leg stretches. Then a set of five or six "French" pullups on big holds to warm up the pulling muscles, and then a climb or two in a range that will give me just a little pump but cause no real strain. My partners (all of whom are at least 20 years younger) joke that by the time I'm warmed up, it is time to go home, and they have a point.
2. Preventive training. Shoulders are always vulnerable and become more so as you age. My only weight training involves various shoulder exercises with dumbells. I keep the weight at a level that causes a sense of fatigue, but does not result in muscular failure on any set. I do these exercises about once a week. I don't have knee problems yet, but I have experienced a noticeable decline in leg strength over the years. I probably ought to be doing some leg weight-training too.
3. Rest. Gym days are usually pretty hard. I never do two in a row.
4. Climbing practices. Many gym climbs and most gym bouldering incorporate dynamic moves. These are a central ingredient in sport climbing and bouldering, but are also the most likely thing to cause injury. I won't try full-out throws, I avoid dynamic moves that require you to catch at full arm extension, and I especially avoid moves that require you to catch out to the side. If catching is likely to be follwed by the feet coming off, forget it. Deadpoints are ok, at least so far. Sometimes there is pressure from your (perhaps much younger) partners to do these things. Learn to ignore it gracefully. Of course, this will limit how far you can progress in terms of high difficulty. On the other hand, you get to keep climbing and save thousands of dollars in surgery and rehab expenses.
5. Specific training. You have to find a way to keep your hand strength up. As this declines, so does hand endurance. It is relatively easy to train endurance of various sorts in the gym, but hand strength is, I think, much more problematic for old guys. The modern approach, using bouldering training like 4X4's, doesn't work at all for me. First of all, I often don't have a spotting partner, second, the gym is often crowded and it isn't practical to move from one route to another, third, suitable routes are not always available, and fourth, the available boulder problems often involve dynamic moves of the sort I've sworn off. (Such moves are even more dangerous when you have to perform them while tired.)
What I feel I need is an exercise with a minutely controllable and predictable level of intensity and the ability to escape from the position of strain instantly if something feels wrong. Bouldering doesn't come close to satisfying these requirements. For me, the solution appears to be hangboard training. (Full disclosure: I've only been doing it for a few weeks.) Mount the hangboard to the holds can be reached while standing on the floor. Lift the legs to hang, and step down instantly if badness happens. Two-arm hangs only, mostly on the larger finger holds, with weights added as strength improves. If you can hang for more than ten seconds, up the weight---this is strength training. Whatever amount of weight I'm working at, I build up to it by doing a sequence 10 second hangs, starting with bodyweight and adding ten pounds at a time. Then I try to manage up to five 10 second sets at whatever the maximum weight is, but if I can only hang for about 3 seconds, I end the session. Yeah, its boring.
Don't do too much of this; I've made progress doing it once and occasionally twice a week, combined with one to two evenings of gym climbing a week. But I ain't burnin' up the gym or anything even close to it; I'm just making slow progress at my own pace and level.
Believe it or not, I originally used the hangboard to rehabilitate elbow tendonitis. After about two weeks of full rest, I started applying stress to the hands, but always at a level that caused no pain. (This is the key: if it hurts, you will only get worse.) At first, this involved just standing on the floor with my hands on the holds and leaning back ever so slightly. (Again, a low-mounted hangboard is essential for this.) I progressed to hanging in an increasingly overhanging position, with my feet still on the ground and then eventually on a step stool. Finally, I took to doing sets of "swings," in which I would grasp the holds, swing forward and back supporting full bodyweight, step down to release all tension, and then swing again. When I could do several sets of, I think, about twenty of these swings, my tendonitis was gone and I could pull hard without reactivating it.
|
|
|
|
|
ksolem
Mar 29, 2007, 3:07 AM
Post #18 of 57
(5529 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jun 30, 2003
Posts: 126
|
I am 54. Last year I gave up my career (music recording) and began the course to be a certified Pilates teacher/trainer. I did this because, following a shoulder surgery, I took up Pilates for therapy and it was a breakthrough for me. I am back at climbing pretty hard again and my "new" shoulder is great. Pilates done well can work wonders for an aging body (and mind.)
|
|
|
|
|
sonso45
Apr 4, 2007, 3:18 AM
Post #19 of 57
(5442 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Sep 1, 2002
Posts: 997
|
I just climb often. I try to vary the type and difficulty. And I avoid the gym. It seems to hurt me more than help. When I do go there, it's mostly social. I try to stay in good physical condition and I think that's what helps me stay injury free for the most part. I am 53 and I was able to finally get rid of tendonitis in my elbow by having open heart surgery. The rest did me some good.
|
|
|
|
|
fluxus
Apr 4, 2007, 4:51 AM
Post #21 of 57
(5400 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Apr 3, 2003
Posts: 947
|
geeze wrote: being an older climber can any one suggest a lite training that could help my climbing,i have a climbing wall set at 35dg,climb twice a week. my own training has left me with golfers elbow and the same thing in one of my knees any ideas,you see most training is aimed at 20 year olds which im not.im climbing 6c sport routes and would like to push it?
I'm on the young side of old but I've been climbing 27 years and I am becomming more and more interestsed in issues around how "older" climber should best train, recover, etc. and how I can continue to perform at a respectable level despite having less time and being a different person physically. (better in some ways worse in others)
I disagree with the idea that most training is geared to a specific age group. Training is (or should be) geared towards the demands of performing at one's desired level.
I think as we age its very important to know our bodies, many folks in their 40s or older have some kind of chronic pain (such as back pain) or minor medical problems (being over weight or mild hypertension) that we just live with, without ever addressing. Further as we age it seems pretty common to experience a loss in active range of motion as well as experiencing an increase in necessary recovery time between workouts.
So my suggestion is to get to know your body; your strengths and weaknesses: physically, medically, if you have them. you mentioned elbow pain, get a good diagnosis and a specific treatment plan, don't just live with the pain. Find the cause or causes of the problem and take specific action. Elbow pain in climbers seems to often occur when climbers do not stretch the flexors of the fingers and wrist correctly or often enough. You may also do too much climbing at too high of an intensity if your main training is done on a short steep home wall.
I could spray for a long time on this topic but I'll leave it here. It migh help if you have some specific questions. your OP was fairly vague. You mention lite training, well, local endurance training for climbing may fit the bill but the first thing you need in oder to train well for climbing at any age is specific goals.
|
|
|
|
|
fitzontherocks
Apr 5, 2007, 2:38 PM
Post #23 of 57
(5234 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jun 11, 2003
Posts: 864
|
First off, rgold is my hero. Next, I've found that as I approach 50, I can't stop. If I take a few days off from my exercise routine, it's much harder to get back on it (physically and mentally), and I'm sore when I do. I was talking with a 65 year old marathoner in my office, and he agrees that you have to keep moving. Be consistent with your workouts. That's probably the hardest thing for me right now (I still climb harder than a bunch of 20somethings I hang with). Right now, I'm planning my 50th birthday trip to climb in the Italian Dolomites or Gran Paradiso (2 years away).
|
|
|
|
|
reg
Apr 5, 2007, 2:57 PM
Post #24 of 57
(5227 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Nov 10, 2004
Posts: 1560
|
bandycoot wrote: As soon as you think that you're old, you will be. Josh
BANG! nail on the head....i'm 57 & don't train. just climb when i feel like it.....trad lead 8's, tr 9-10 and am v happy with that. i do a lot of other stuff besides. i believe varying the routine is good for us elderly folk. ya gotta round it out ya know pappy?
|
|
|
|
|
sidewaysmaster
Apr 6, 2007, 11:05 PM
Post #25 of 57
(5168 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Oct 22, 2003
Posts: 49
|
Elderly?! Elderly?! Speak only for yourself man! I am 55 and been climbing for 35 years. I am still climbing hard (5.12c) and boulder with anyone so long as I don't have to dyno too much. I may admit to being 'older' but I feel I am far away from being 'elderly'. Maybe in 20 years!
I climb 4 days a week either inside or out depending on the length of day. I also usually do a dumbbell workout once a week to keep my chest muscles and the muscles on the fronts of my shoulders strong. About twice a year I need to take a break for a week or two to let something rest, the remaining weeks are full bore. I don't plan on slowing down until they plant me either.
|
|
|
|
|
|
1
