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wonder1978
Apr 26, 2007, 1:32 AM
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I am a sport climber. I can/could climb mid range 5.12. The best sport climbing in my region is Rumney. My question is: If you were me and you had the chance to do one rockclimbing trip, only one (pretend you were going to die afterwards or something), where in the world would you go for two/three weeks?
I am particularly interested in getting some feedback from the well-traveled climbers of the website. See, I haven’t traveled much, and though it’d be easy for me to say that Rumney is the best sport climbing in the world, my opinion wouldn’t be worth all that much. I could sure tell you what the climbing is like, and I could tell you it’s awesome (and it is), but I wouldn’t venture to say how it compares to, say, red river, as I haven’t even been there. See what I mean.
Also, I am not asking this just to spur some forum action. I am actually looking for some inspiration. I think if I set my mind to it, I could plan a rockclimbing trip anywhere in the world and I could do it in, realistically, five years, give or take one or two.
Of course, I am aware that the broad topic “sport climbing paradise” is somewhat subjective. “What is paradise for you” one could ask? I’ll say this: I would be interested in going to a place where the whole package is “as good as it gets,” not only the climbing:
Inspiring routes in a breathtaking setting (perhaps exotic, at least defamiliarizing), good accomodations, fun things to do on rest days, good people, but not hoards of them, etc...
Right now, with what I know of the world, it seems like paradise is in Thailand. The climbing looks unquestionably awesome, the place is very exotic (at least for me in the North-East) and the accommodations look good (are they?). I think the accommodations would be an important part of a “fantasy climbing trip” for someone like me. I’m not the kind of person who would consider 20 straight days of camping (or living in a shack) heaven. More like a cold beer and a good meal after a hard day of climbing.
As for Thailand, though it does look and sound too good to be true, the guidebook warns about a number of different things that could go wrong in that place. So much so that it has made me reconsider it as my number one choice for an all-out-exotic rockclimbing extravaganza. Infections, viruses, sickness, venomous everything, hospitals next to useless?!? Am I just paranoid or do you really have to be a hardcore, well-seasoned traveler to go rockclimbing in a place like Thailand and have a "time of your life" experience?
what do you guys think about all this?
And to return to the original question:
If you’re a sport climber and you die, where’s your heaven???
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gwendolyn
Apr 26, 2007, 1:48 AM
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Yosemite, maybe?
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tradrenn
Apr 26, 2007, 1:51 AM
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wonder1978 wrote: I am a sport climber. I can/could climb mid range 5.12. The best sport climbing in my region is Rumney. My question is: If you were me and you had the chance to do one rockclimbing trip, only one (pretend you were going to die afterwards or something), where in the world would you go for two/three weeks? I am particularly interested in getting some feedback from the well-traveled climbers of the website. See, I haven’t traveled much, and though it’d be easy for me to say that Rumney is the best sport climbing in the world, my opinion wouldn’t be worth all that much. I could sure tell you what the climbing is like, and I could tell you it’s awesome (and it is), but I wouldn’t venture to say how it compares to, say, red river, as I haven’t even been there. See what I mean. Also, I am not asking this just to spur some forum action. I am actually looking for some inspiration. I think if I set my mind to it, I could plan a rockclimbing trip anywhere in the world and I could do it in, realistically, five years, give or take one or two. Of course, I am aware that the broad topic “sport climbing paradise” is somewhat subjective. “What is paradise for you” one could ask? I’ll say this: I would be interested in going to a place where the whole package is “as good as it gets,” not only the climbing: Inspiring routes in a breathtaking setting (perhaps exotic, at least defamiliarizing), good accomodations, fun things to do on rest days, good people, but not hoards of them, etc... Right now, with what I know of the world, it seems like paradise is in Thailand. The climbing looks unquestionably awesome, the place is very exotic (at least for me in the North-East) and the accommodations look good (are they?). I think the accommodations would be an important part of a “fantasy climbing trip” for someone like me. I’m not the kind of person who would consider 20 straight days of camping (or living in a shack) heaven. More like a cold beer and a good meal after a hard day of climbing. As for Thailand, though it does look and sound too good to be true, the guidebook warns about a number of different things that could go wrong in that place. So much so that it has made me reconsider it as my number one choice for an all-out-exotic rockclimbing extravaganza. Infections, viruses, sickness, venomous everything, hospitals next to useless?!? Am I just paranoid or do you really have to be a hardcore, well-seasoned traveler to go rockclimbing in a place like Thailand and have a "time of your life" experience? what do you guys think about all this? And to return to the original question: If you’re a sport climber and you die, where’s your heaven???
EPC in Mexico. Have fun.
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jcpace
Apr 26, 2007, 6:08 AM
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...and where can i find those 72 virgins?
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JAB
Apr 26, 2007, 11:35 AM
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I was to Thailand (Railay/Tonsai & Phi Phi) a month ago, and it was very close to paradise. With a grade of 5.12 you have more routes than you could ever dream of climbing, from steep overhangs to long multi-pitches.
In end-March it was a little bit hot, but on the other hands there were not too many climbers around. Many times you would have an entire wall for yourself. The only crowded wall was the one at Tonsai beach.
Many climbers seem to be upset that they will build a resort at Tonsai, meaning the end of cheap shack-like living. We stayed at a resort in Railay, and with a great buffet breakfast, A/C room and hot shower for $30/person/night, I found it quite reasonable.
I can't really comment on the safety issue. Nothing happened to us during our 2 weeks stay, but we also didn't take any large falls. The King Climber's guidebook (although from 2005) mentions the areas with old bolts - we of course stayed away from those.
I don't have enough experience of different areas to say it was paradise, but I would definitely go again! 
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chill41
Apr 26, 2007, 1:00 PM
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You could easily spend 3 weeks in Potrero climbing up to 5.12. Best saved for the wintertime; my first trip down there it was in the 70s every day in January.
Some selling points:
-camp for $3/night or rent a cabana for a bit more ---food and beer are cheaper
-local small town (with weekly markets) walkable
-huge city about an hour away
-loads and loads of rock overlooking the campgrounds...and probably only 10% has been climbed so far
only downside would be the lack of really great rest day stuff to do...but there's probably lots of local culture (and the Potrero too) to explore
chill
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yanqui
Apr 26, 2007, 1:46 PM
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Go to Spain.
http://www.escuelasdeescalada.com/
To give you some idea how much climbing there is in Spain: the guide above divides Spain into about 20 regions. Some of the regions represented have close to 100 "escuelas" (i.e. sport crags) and some of the bigger sport crags ("escuelas") have thousands of established routes.
You would probably need something like a two year uninterrupted climbing vacation just to visit all the crags that receive 5 or 6 star ratings (the maximum) in the guide.
Too bad the Euro's so damn expensive.
(This post was edited by yanqui on Apr 26, 2007, 1:48 PM)
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unrooted
Apr 26, 2007, 2:31 PM
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If I was to go to any one place in the world it would be spain.
Any one place in the western hemisphere? El portrero chico.
Any one place in the US, New river gorge.
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uncasid
Apr 26, 2007, 2:52 PM
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I agree with the spain thing. Lots and lots of good climbing there. Check out a place called Riglos or Costa Blanca.
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wonder1978
Apr 26, 2007, 3:03 PM
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Thanks for the replies. I appreciate the feedback. Thanks Jab for your input on Thailand. I was hoping someone who had already been there would give me an idea of how things look over there, so thanks.
A few questions: First, I have seen many pictures and videos of Spain, it looks pretty hype right now and I had definitely given it some thought. It's kind of a whole country though, so where would be the spot you guys would choose for a vacation. I mean, among the hundreds of crags where would you head first?
I hadn't really checked out Potrero, now I did and it does look awesome. I'll definitely keep it in mind.
I'm a bit curious though about two destinations that came out: Yosemite and New River?
I always thought that Yosemite was a destination mostly for Big Wall projects. I know it's so big that there are probably hundreds of sport routes, but would I like being in a place for a dream vacation where I can do sport routes but where I wish I could go Big Walling instead? Maybe I'd feel short changed (unless you tell me there are several all-bolted multi pitch routes).
Same question about New River. I had always thought that you had to look for the few bolted routes in an ocean of awesome trad routes. Would I, as a sport climber, want to take a dream vacation in a place where "it's not rad unless it's trad"?
keep em coming!
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jammer
Apr 26, 2007, 3:09 PM
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Move on to trad. You'll have a wider range of pleasure!
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brit
Apr 26, 2007, 3:09 PM
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Hey, I'm also looking for sport-climbing paradise on earth... Just one point to make - it depends hugely on what time of year you're going climbing.
After much deliberation and info from various sources, I decided that for June/July, sport climbing paradise on earth is here in good ole England:
http://www.planetfear.com/article_detail.asp?a_id=485
And the best bit is that you can stay in some nice B&B's with decent ale on tap. Something I haven't been able to appreciate for a while 
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unrooted
Apr 26, 2007, 3:24 PM
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Yosemite has few if any multipitch bolted routes. The majority of the bolted routes there are definately not sport, and the ones that are will crush your ego.
The new has tons of sport routes, but you really need to get into trad. I finally did two years ago and it opened up so many more options for me.
I have climbed several 12's and after finally redpointing them I would shrug and say, ok what now. On trad I have done 5.8 and 9 multipitch and got to the top and said damn that was soooo good, I wanna do it again. Theres just something about trad, I can't really explain though.
My trad friends still call me a sport bitch, but I just love all aspects of climbing, except aid, that shit is scary.
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herbaltee
Apr 26, 2007, 3:25 PM
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Spain...Costa Blanca, Costa Daurada and Barcelona. Really can't beat that area...plus if you get bored you can always head to Mallorca. 5 hours between Murcia and Barcelona. 3000+ routes.
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brit
Apr 26, 2007, 3:34 PM
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Seriously, when are you climbing? Spain, although great, is waaay to hot during the summer...
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microbarn
Apr 26, 2007, 3:38 PM
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unrooted wrote: The new has tons of sport routes, but you really need to get into trad. I finally did two years ago and it opened up so many more options for me.
I have heard NRG call the the single pitch paradise. Almost everything is half a rope length, and there are miles of crag.
There are TONS of sport routes at the New. I only got into trad recently, and I was fairly unaware of the numerous trad options there until recently.
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caughtinside
Apr 26, 2007, 3:54 PM
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http://www.supertopo.com/...html?topic_id=351418
Here's a link to a photo trip report I threw together after I spent most of February in thailand.
Yeah, while I was there, there was talk of the new resort going in, which will invariably drive up prices. But it's still pretty rad. Very, very humid though, give yourself a week to really adjust to it.
$30 per person per night seems pretty steep for accomodation though, unless you're staying in a really nice place! I stayed in a slum for $5 a night for a week, but ended up upgrading to a really nice $20 a night spot.
But there's lots of other neat places to check out!
Spain,
France,
Kalymnos, Greece
El Potrero Chico
the Red
Also, you should NOT wait 5 years to do it. I don't know your age, but the sooner the better. My 3 weeks in thailand cost about $2000, and I was living way large. Most of that was the plane ticket, it is quite cheap once you're there.
Go. Now.
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wonder1978
Apr 26, 2007, 5:06 PM
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I am delighted with the replies, Thanks all!
A few clarifications:
When in the year I could do the trip? I'm a (new) college teacher so I am basically off in January, and from mid-May to late August. I think both Spain and Thailand are out of the question during the summer months, but they're probably not too bad in January right?
And yes, I should do the trip ASAP, and not wait five years, that's a given, but there are several reasons why this is not a so readily available option in my case. With a young family, a mortgage, and nine years of university to make up for salary-wise, things like that have to be planned in advance.
Wow, the whole trip for 2000$, that's really cheap, especially including the plane ticket
I am not trying to start a debate here, so don't any of you take the following the wrong way ok.
I don't think I'd want my trip to Thailand to cost 2000$, I'd want my trip to cost as much as I can possibly afford. You see, the idea of Thailand, to someone like me who hasn't seen much of the world, makes me somewhat insecure. I wouldn't be looking to make the trip as cheap as possible but rather as easy, effortless, and comfortable as possible. I know I'm talking to a crowd of climbers, and a lot of you will frown at the next sentence, but here goes anyway: If they're building a resort near the climbing in Thailand, that's pretty much where I'd be heading.
As for getting into trad, I definitely see why many of you would push for that, so an answer is in order. The thing is, I got out of trad climbing in recent years. Trad climbing is the first style I learned back in the mid-90s, but I never developed much of a head for it. When my daughter arrived on the scene, for some reason, all the epics I had lived through while on trad climbs suddenly seemed unnecessary and dangerous (loose rocks falling epics, gear ripping epics, close call epics, stuck rope epics, bad route-finding epics, weather-turning-bad epics, etc...) All these cool stories I had to tell suddenly seemed ridiculous. Well anyway that's another thread right here. Long story short, there is enough sport climbing in my region for a lifetime, and as this thread clearly shows there are enough world-class destinations for all the trips I'd be wanting to make.
One thing I'll say about the trad vs sport thing (since it's my thread anyway) is that the biggest difference I find is the amount of fun had on the spot versus the pleasure and satisfaction derived from the climb after the fact. Meaning: Whenever I ended up in a tight spot during a trad climb, (what I called epics above, when in reality they are really, really petty epics) I always, every single time, felt like abandoning the sport altogether: "what the hell am I doing here? Why am I doing this? Where's my Mommy? If I get out of this, I'm never climbing again, I swear!" But after the fact, I was always delighted to come back home and tell the tale, and that tale would nourish me for some time. With sport climbing it's quite the opposite: I have almost nothing to say when I come back home: "Oh honey you should have seen that evil side-pull just under the third bolt, nasty stuff I tell ya!" BORING! But while I'm there, I'm always a happy camper, and time spent working a route makes me want to climb more not abandon the sport. Like I said, I never had much of a head for trad climbing. And I guess that's why I am asking for world-class sport-climbing destinations: to make up for the fact that I'll probably never be sleeping on a ledge in Yosemite.
Ok, ok, I feel like I hijacked my own thread. But I hadn't posted anything on this website for a long while, and I'm having a lot of fun here. So keep on it please.
Bringing it back on topic: I checked out Costa Blanca, and what can I say: WOW, AMAZING STUFF. Now I have to go there too. And since this is coastal Spain, I'm sure I could find a place that rents Ferraris Hmmm, getting from one awesome crag to another in a Ferrari, and then renting a Villa for the night... (Homerish AARRRGGH) Ok, I'm opening a savings account right now. This is officialy Paradise.
More, more please! By the way I have read about, and looked at pics of every single place you guys (and gals, where are my manners?) mentioned, even those I already knew of, so keep'em coming, this is fun!!!
(This post was edited by wonder1978 on Apr 26, 2007, 5:16 PM)
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notch
Apr 26, 2007, 10:08 PM
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In reply to: Where is Paradise on earth for sport climbers?
I dunno...the gym?
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herbaltee
Apr 26, 2007, 10:32 PM
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I would highly recommend Thailand in January. It is just outside the peak season. Its warm its sunny and it is the safest of all the SE Asian countries. Tourism in Thailand is HUGE, so they (Thai govt, resort owners, guiding companies) definitely try their best to keep Westerners happy. Also it isn't unsafe or unreasonable to find places that are super cheap. Usually local places are cheaper than say Club Med or the Marriot and they are nicer since the owner is usually around and is making a living off of you. So don't be scared about $30 a night places. Take a look around ask a lot of questions and if you don't feel comfortable move on. If you are taking your family you could easily find a family friendly place. Plus Thai food and culture is amazing so you can have that to do when you don't feel like climbing.
Spain on the other hand will be a bit cold in January. Its also a bit hot during the summer months. But if you base yourself in Barcelona you'll have plenty to do outside of climbing.
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wonder1978
Apr 26, 2007, 11:01 PM
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Thanks herbaltee,
You're a bit reassuring. As for that part about it being cold in January in Spain, what do you mean by cold? I live in Montreal, Quebec. How cold can it actually get?
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winglessangel
Apr 26, 2007, 11:06 PM
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wonder1978 wrote: I am delighted with the replies, Thanks all! A few clarifications: When in the year I could do the trip? I'm a (new) college teacher so I am basically off in January, and from mid-May to late August. I think both Spain and Thailand are out of the question during the summer months, but they're probably not too bad in January right?
What is summer for some is winter for others, come to Rio any time between may and august.
Now a complete answer:
It is a hard question to answer, you say PARADISE, I don't know what you mean by that. More routes? harder routes? great views?
And then who can say? Who has gone everywhere? People you say not what they like more, but what they want more, and wanting can be tendencions.
Every sport climber I know wants to go to Cipó, a place 8h drive from here. They want it because they can afford, because it has famous routes, those hard hard projects they want to send, because it is limestone and not our skin-killer granite and because it is a magical and beatiful place in the middle of nowhere and we are all from the city.
But I don't think it has more or more beatiful routes then those I've climbed here.
I don't know much about climbing in the rest of the world, but I love it down here.
You may think I'm just saying that because it is my place, but no, I honestly believe it is one of the paradises on earth for sport climbing.
reason 1) very large selection of routes. If you take a look at my album you will see a map, that shows over 10 spots to climb, all in the city, all sport and trad. most are sport, Here I can wake up, climb 3 pitches of a easy to moderate soprt route and then go to work.
Everything really close. And what you see in the map is not even half.
we have half-pitche crags of hard routes, we have 8 pitch routes of any dificulty, all bolted, all trad and mixed. Tell me what you want, I'll tell you where to go.
reason 2) It is a beautiful place.
reason 3) It is not like thailand with all those crazy bolts stories. Our rock is very solid granit, and our routes are not just by the beach, so sea water is litlle less harmful. And we dont use bolts+hangers, only a round edged one piece bolt. The bolts don't get "decapitated" and the round edge lets you rapel from anywhere.
reason 4) if you wan't to rest, go to to beach, even in the winter.
reason 5) if you want fun, its a city.
But keep with your search, Im planing a trip for some time in the near future and I'm very interested in the answers you get.
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wonder1978
Apr 26, 2007, 11:29 PM
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Thanks winglessangel, you're right, as I did mention, that Paradise is a most subjective thing. I'm asking for personal opinions here, not, by any means, for the last word on the subject. That said, now I have to go to Rio as well, I mean, What a view:
So how does it work basically? You rent a car, climb awesome routes, stay in five star hotels, and enjoy the Rio sights during your rest days? sounds cool. Any down side?
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winglessangel
Apr 26, 2007, 11:43 PM
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Well I like to say it is a place wher you can take a taxi to the base of a Big Wall 
but not so much, most routes still take a bit of aproach time. I even got lost once, heheeh, how funny is that? to get "lost" knowing that you are 1 mile in any direction you get out of the woods?
You got it right, it can be like that if you want, you can stay in a five star hotel, rent a car and STILL get the best out of climbing experience.
But you can stay in a cheap hostel, make friendship with crazy backpackers from Holland or Germany that will take you to drink every night and you will not have strengths left for any climbing at all. heheeh,
The downside, I believe, is because it is a city. Some climbers seek the peace of the outdoors, the quite and the 'adventure'. So they don't like it here.
What I could say about typical city traps for tourists? Tourists anywhere are subjects for those things, never been robbed here just to chased twice in my trip to Europe. Of course, cameras call attention and all. I could say that about Rio, but It can't be used for comparsion, I would say the same about Thai and Spain (where a friend, traveling with me, was robbed)
Flavia
(This post was edited by winglessangel on Apr 26, 2007, 11:45 PM)
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