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eyeklimb
Sep 11, 2008, 12:21 AM
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I have just gotten a second rope and I'm looking to get into rappelling at Moores, and eventually some sport and later get into trad climbs. As of right now, we are working up our endurance by top belaying longer routes. I live in Winston, and I'm wondering how to get to the top of the wall without climbing it, since my buddies and I aren't confident enough to lead the routes out there, and once I'm up there, where is the rap station? I know what the station looks like thanks to the picture someone posted on here... but that's it. I have been there to scope out the area, so I kinda familiar with the top of the mountain. Where is the rap route and what are some landmarks I could use to get me there?
Thanks
Chris.
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sungam
Sep 11, 2008, 12:30 AM
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I dont have the beta you're after, but I will suggest finding someone who climbs at Moore's, buying them some beers mid-week, then heading over there with them on the weekend.
They could show you around, point out what routes are worth doing but won't piss people off by getting TR'd and show you where to rap etc.
edit because RC.com doesn't support symbols 
(This post was edited by sungam on Sep 11, 2008, 12:31 AM)
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MikeSaint
Sep 11, 2008, 12:33 AM
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Moores Wall may not be extremely conducive for rappelling... Some of the rap stations are often queued with people waiting to rappel/ on hold with leaders advancing up the climb(s).
I'd love to answer your question in greater detail but class beckons, perhaps someone can provide you better details.
Good Luck
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cragmasterp
Sep 11, 2008, 1:07 AM
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hey man
that fixed rap is above the crows nest, and is 2 full pitches above the ground. not a good spot for top roping or sport rappelling (whatever that is).
You should go to Pilot if you want to toprope/set a top anchor on a cliff. It is not far from Winston, and it is very easy there to set top ropes (if you know WTF you are doing).
There are some boulders at the base of moores that are worthy topropes however, some up to 40' tall. It may be a bit tricky to set anchors on those boulders until you know WTF you are doing.
Good luck, take your time and be smart. Especially at Moores, which is really a multi-pitch trad area. Great bouldering there though.
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ja1484
Sep 11, 2008, 1:32 AM
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Go to Pilot Mountain. Moore's is not the place to be doing what you're discussing.
When you're ready for places like Moore's, you won't need to ask anyone about anything. You'll either know where to get the info, or you'll know how to improvise well enough not to need it.
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eyeklimb
Sep 11, 2008, 2:10 AM
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i've been climbing for nearly 2 years now, so i know what i'm doing as far as top rope goes, i go to pilot all the time, i'm looking for some longer climbs, such as a top belay on a route at moores... what i am wondering is how to get to the rap station above the crows nest... and also what is the best way to hike around to the top (climbers trails or regular park trails)
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naitch
Sep 11, 2008, 2:48 AM
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As other's have said Moore's is not conducive to TRing. There are only a couple rap stations and the only one that's accessible from the top to my knowledge would be the Sentinel Buttress one the next pitch above the Crow's Nest. However it serves as the rap station for many routes and would not be good to tie up with TRing. I'm not sure that directly below it is all that enticing to TR anyway - only 5.5 Same with the rap station at the Cows Nest. These are both in frequent use and I would not like to see them tied up with TRing. Best bet is to take a course, hire a guide, or find a mentor that can teach you what you need to know about trad while you second him/her for a while so that you can llearn to ead ground up. That's what Moore's is all about.
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eyeklimb
Sep 11, 2008, 3:01 AM
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i think i need to clarify what i am wanting to do.... my friends and i are fairly good climbers, we can do up to 5.10c we have only TRed, and we have done some 5.7 sport, all at pilot. we know how to belay from the top and set up our own anchors and stuff like that, we are wanting to climb some longer routes than the average 40-50 foot routes at pilot... so we would top belay any of the routes, not just the ones near the rap routes, and then rap down, just like anyone else who lead the wall. no one has told me where to go if i want to hike to the top, that is the main thing i need to know, along with how to get to the sentinal (sp?) rappell station.
thanks.
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MikeSaint
Sep 11, 2008, 3:56 AM
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eyeklimb wrote: we know how to belay from the top and set up our own anchors and stuff like that, we are wanting to climb some longer routes than the average 40-50 foot routes at pilot... so we would top belay any of the routes, not just the ones near the rap routes, and then rap down, just like anyone else who lead the wall. thanks.
eyeklimb,
If you are competent in anchor construction then all you need to do is grab the *appropriate gear, guidebook, and state park map.
Your system for using the above trail, route finding, belaying the second, rappelling and then hiking back up to do more routes will be more time consuming and dangerous than you think.
I understand you are anxious to climb in an area new to you. Doing it in the manner you're describing will not give you the experience Moores Wall is capable of delivering.
Best of Luck, Patience is a Virtue.
**The standard gear you would use to top rope at Pilot will be inadequate at Moores.
(This post was edited by MikeSaint on Sep 11, 2008, 4:06 AM)
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knieveltech
Sep 11, 2008, 4:23 AM
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eyeklimb wrote: i think i need to clarify what i am wanting to do.... my friends and i are fairly good climbers, we can do up to 5.10c we have only TRed, and we have done some 5.7 sport, all at pilot. we know how to belay from the top and set up our own anchors and stuff like that, we are wanting to climb some longer routes than the average 40-50 foot routes at pilot... so we would top belay any of the routes, not just the ones near the rap routes, and then rap down, just like anyone else who lead the wall. no one has told me where to go if i want to hike to the top, that is the main thing i need to know, along with how to get to the sentinal (sp?) rappell station. thanks.
I got you covered! Here's your move:
From the climber parking take the obvious trail up to the fire road, then bust a left.
Follow the fire road until you hit a trail head on the right.
Follow this trail all the way to the cliff face.
Bust a left at the rock and follow the bottom of the cliff for maybe 1/4 mile or so. Eventually you'll come to a climber trail that heads uphill via a very low angle gully. Follow that sucker all the way to the top. On the way up note the cliff face on the left hand side of the gully. That should be your money spot for setting up TR's and doing the top belay thing. Plenty tall and nobody ever climbs there so you don't have to deal with trad dads hating on your game. There should be plenty in the area around the gully to keep you occupied. If you decide you want to start playing with the two pitch stuff up there your best bet (assuming you don't sack up and lead it) would be to roll out there with someone who knows the lay of the land and can drag you up both pitches of sentinel and show you how to get to the walk off from the top. It's pretty tough trying to explain how to find the sentinel anchor from the approach/walkoff gully as there's a bunch of bushwhacking involved.
One thing you definitely need to be very aware of is there are very few fixed anchors at Moore's so you'll be mostly rigging off of trees or building gear anchors. If you're hoping to clip bolts for pro you're probably SOL unless you routinely climb 12's. Good luck.
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chezdillon
Sep 11, 2008, 3:44 PM
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At the risk of being called a trad dad...
If the whole point of this is to top rope a route that is longer than the ones at Pilot, then the Moore's Gully suggestion will not help. The parking lot routes at pilot are ~30m tall. It is hard to find a route at Moore's (or anywhere in NC) that is > 30m tall, with a relatively straight line conducive to TR, and a bomber yet simple TR anchor that is easily accessible from the top. That said, I would truly enjoy watching someone attempt to TR the circus wall. Talk about Schadenfreude!
Now Ship Rock is another story... Have you considered Boardwalk? It seems to fit your requirements. Personally I would recommend going with someone who leads so you can experience the route in the typical fashion, but to each their own... As my grade-schooler says: "Don't yuck my yum".
It would be a bit difficult to get to the top and set up, but it would probably work. That, and there are plenty of shorter routes are routinely TR'd by people who are not out to reinvent the wheel.
One last word of caution. There is a reason so many people seem to be against this idea. It is very dangerous. The crux will be establishing the TR anchor and belaying from above without falling over the edge of the cliff. There was a very recent fatal accident at Ship Rock that involved experienced climbers falling from the top while establishing their rappel anchor.
- Jeff
P.S. Knievel - I found some opportunities at Moore's for that wide groveling you are into...
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knieveltech
Sep 11, 2008, 4:14 PM
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chezdillon wrote: At the risk of being called a trad dad... If the whole point of this is to top rope a route that is longer than the ones at Pilot, then the Moore's Gully suggestion will not help. The parking lot routes at pilot are ~30m tall. It is hard to find a route at Moore's (or anywhere in NC) that is > 30m tall, with a relatively straight line conducive to TR, and a bomber yet simple TR anchor that is easily accessible from the top. That said, I would truly enjoy watching someone attempt to TR the circus wall. Talk about Schadenfreude! Now Ship Rock is another story... Have you considered Boardwalk? It seems to fit your requirements. Personally I would recommend going with someone who leads so you can experience the route in the typical fashion, but to each their own... As my grade-schooler says: "Don't yuck my yum". [image]http://www.rockclimbing.com/images/photos/assets/0/343950-large_n585165594_994243_9060.jpg[/image] It would be a bit difficult to get to the top and set up, but it would probably work. That, and there are plenty of shorter routes are routinely TR'd by people who are not out to reinvent the wheel. One last word of caution. There is a reason so many people seem to be against this idea. It is very dangerous. The crux will be establishing the TR anchor and belaying from above without falling over the edge of the cliff. There was a very recent fatal accident at Ship Rock that involved experienced climbers falling from the top while establishing their rappel anchor. - Jeff
To the OP, with Jeff's beta here. I wasn't paying a ton of attention to the cliff height near the descent gully so if he says it's short, then it's short. I'd also pay very close attention to the warning about objective hazards (eg. falling off the cliff). Be safe.
In reply to: P.S. Knievel - I found some opportunities at Moore's for that wide groveling you are into...
Oh shit, now you're just talking dirty. I know about the awesome little OW boulder problem in the middle of the Euro wall at 2 mile, what have you got?
edited to add: trad dad.
(This post was edited by knieveltech on Sep 11, 2008, 4:15 PM)
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ja1484
Sep 11, 2008, 4:44 PM
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knieveltech wrote: edited to add: trad dad.
Shit! Beat me to it.
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hyhuu
Sep 11, 2008, 5:07 PM
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If you are not familiar with the area, approaching from the top to find routes/anchors/rap stations etc will be very difficult. But you'll have quite an adventure. Yes I'm speaking from experience.
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saxfiend
Sep 11, 2008, 10:52 PM
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eyeclimb -- you really need to listen to the others here and forget about Moore's for what you have in mind. The longer routes you're looking for aren't suited for toproping even with belaying from the top; your climber would most likely have to either climb a direct line that would be dirty and/or impossible to climb, or risk a big pendulum if they try to climb the actual route. And the only bolted rap station I've ever seen there is the Crows Nest/Sentinel Buttress station that others have mentioned, and it gets crowded.
Hook up with someone who can lead for you at Moore's, it shouldn't be too hard to find someone willing.
JL
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dwise
Sep 11, 2008, 11:29 PM
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Eyeclimb,
Ditto what everyone else said. Moore's is not the place to do what you're describing. PM me. I'm happy to climb with you at Moore's ground up. That is the best way to familiarize yourself with the area (descriptions online will only get you lost).
For what you want to to, I recommend going up to the New in WV. It's only about a 2 hour drive for you, easy TR access at areas like Bridge Buttress and Junkyard Wall, and there're loads of excellent longer routes.
Like I said, PM me.
Dave Wise
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justroberto
Sep 12, 2008, 12:11 AM
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eyeklimb wrote: what i am wondering is how to get to the rap station above the crows nest...
Uh, start below the crows nest, then climb up to it?
Seriously, utilizing one of the only rap stations in the area (and probably the most used in the park) to rap and TR for a while is pretty lame. Don't be that guy asshole. On a weekday you might be fine, but during the weekend that thing is packed as it is.
Go to Stone for some long raps. It's too hot right now for there to be big crowds for you to inconvenience, plus it's easy to find the stations from the top and it's easy to find routes that don't wander...
edited for the strikethrough!
(This post was edited by justroberto on Sep 12, 2008, 12:14 AM)
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justroberto
Sep 12, 2008, 12:21 AM
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Also, if you were to be that, er, guy, you'd need either a 70m rope or an understanding of how to belay from above. I could be wrong, but if you don't have the skillset to climb up to the station, I'd be skeptical of your ability to belay while hanging off of it...
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joshy8200
Sep 12, 2008, 12:43 AM
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chezdillon wrote: Now Ship Rock is another story... Have you considered Boardwalk? There was a very recent fatal accident at Ship Rock that involved experienced climbers falling from the top while establishing their rappel anchor. - Jeff
Suggesting Ship Rock is a very bad idea not only because of the danger of falling trying to access rap stations (which is a problem anywhere) but because access around the top of Ship Rock needs to be strictly limited to those topping out routes and accessing rap stations for two reasons:
1) You'd have to hike to the top of Rough Ridge to access the top of Ship Rock anyway. Which I believe has signs all over the place warning you to stick to the boardwalks at the top there because of all the mosses and plants on the top.
Not a good idea at all to start hiking up to the top across any plants and pissing of National Park Service or Blue Ridge Parkway people...whoever gives climbers access at Ship Rock.
2) Accessing the top via the gulley beside of Harpoon/Anguish of Captain Bligh is already big time off limits because of said reasons.
So basically accessing the top of Ship Rock is a off limits, unless by leading a route. Climbers have already been asked 'politely' to tread lightly around the top of Ship Rock. DO NOT go trying to TR routes by accessing them from the top at Ship Rock.
And also you'd be tying up an rappel route that is just as congested at the Sentinel Buttress at Moore's.
(This post was edited by joshy8200 on Sep 12, 2008, 12:48 AM)
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eyeklimb
Sep 12, 2008, 12:59 AM
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Ok, so here's the deal... I know how to belay from above, I also know how to set up my own anchors, and from the responses so far, everyone has maybe touched on one point as far as what all I need to know, but did not seem to understand what I am doing in another area...
We will set up a top anchor and then strap a guy into it who will belay from above on whatever route we want to climb, so it would basically just be the second half of a full pitch operation, where the leader has reached the top and is now belaying his second. We would just be belaying the second. We have the skills to climb most of the routes, just not the gear to lead, since I'm 18 and dont make the same kinda money most of you guys do. We want to climb moores, we dont have the gear to lead the trad routes. So we just need to know how to get to the top of the cliff in order to drop a single rope and lower someone down so he can climb up. We would then simply rap off like anyone else who had just topped out, the only problem is that I dont know where the sentinel rap station is, since I believe that is the only one accessible from the top of the cliff...
So we do not necessarily want to top rope, just top belay in order to be able to climb the routes. I just dont know where to go in order to hike to the top, and once up there, where to go to rap down...
And believe me, I dont want to TR sentinel, I understand that it is a popular route and we would be stupid to try to set up a TR on it considering it is most likely 2 pitches for a reason, along with the fact that so many people need to use it in order to get down off the rock...
Now that I have made myself clearer for the third time, does all that make sense? And if so, any help?
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joshy8200
Sep 12, 2008, 1:07 AM
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eyeklimb wrote: Ok, so here's the deal...
Ok, so here's the deal...Everyone (that's knows anything about climbing) already understands what you're wanting to do. And what we're trying to tell you is, "Don't do it (for various reasons)."
Is that clear?
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erica
Sep 12, 2008, 1:53 AM
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eyeklimb - I think the confusion here is your assumption that top-belaying = seconding. Most of the lines at Moore's wander a good deal. In other words, if you lowered someone straight down from the top of a route, they would be significantly to the right or the left of the start of that route once they got to the bottom, with a very strong possibility that they would be dangling mid-air unable to reach the rock (Moore's is steep). A leader setting protection along the way does more than just protect the leader...as the second comes up, it protects him/her as well from taking ridiculous swinging falls during the climb. So the idea of top-belaying as you are describing it is not at all the same as seconding a route, which is why everyone is telling you its dangerous...I second the idea that the New would be a great place for what you are looking for.
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MikeSaint
Sep 12, 2008, 3:29 AM
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Eyeklimb-
Please refer to my previous post concerning appropriate gear, guidebooks and state park maps.
Not to be an asshole but.. if you're having this much trouble after looking at a couple of maps you shouldnt be trying to do what you're asking.
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sungam
Sep 12, 2008, 12:31 PM
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eyeklimb wrote: I'm 18 and dont make the same kinda money most of you guys do.
You and your friends get jobs.
Then you don't spend any of it on chicks, cars, drinking, or partying.
Just on gear.
Before you know it, you and your friends put your gear together and you have a rack. Keep note of who bought what, though.
eyeklimb wrote: Ok, so here's the deal...
dwise wrote: PM me. I'm happy to climb with you at Moore's ground up. That is the best way to familiarize yourself with the area (descriptions online will only get you lost). |
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boo
Sep 12, 2008, 12:59 PM
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You have been clear about what you are trying to do. The climbers, who have climbed at Moores, have been clear with safe, sound advice. The folks responding cover a wide spectrum of experience and all are exactly right: the cliff is not conducive to doing partial routes accessed from the upper tier, the wall is very steep, and if you lack the equipment to safely navigate the cliff - how in the heck are you going to keep your buddies safe.
You were invited to go climb at Moore's with Dwise. Looking at his pics and log....he knows what he's doing. I am certain others have, as well. sugnaM is dead on in his last post.
Your objective to grow past toproping at Pilot is admirable. None of us faults you for wanting to climb at a stellar place. Take some of those folks up on their offers to take you out. You might not be able to saddle all of your friends on one invitation. But go. You won't get that offer too many times.
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