Prove it.

Jay

There's nothing to prove. Lifting weights provides neural adaptations to recruit more muscle fibers than climbing alone can...

Lifting is also incredibly efficient at helping to lower body fat, increase insulin sensitivity, and also helps to slightly increase amounts of GH and testosterone (which can both play a large role in body composition). Focus on the antagonist muscles will provide balance to the pulling muscles and reduce risk of injury.

(adding on to the testosterone rant)I don't currently lift nearly as heavy as I used to before I started climbing but I seriously did notice that my libido was through the fucking roof during my first year of college when I got into really heavy lifting, including squats, cleans, and all the good stuff that adds leg mass that climbers don't want.

Like aerili stated, lifting also takes technique and coordination.

Now try and disprove it.

Optimum strength gains are seen in the lower rep range 5-8 maybe even lower. There's a reason that tons of Olympic and Power lifters work to increase their maxes using sets of heavy triples. I would call this the sweet spot ALTHOUGH I'm a huge fan of periodization especially when it comes to lifting, so do yourself a favor and change rep/set schemes every month or two.

Climbing Pink, I'm not really sure what you mean by "really high rate." Are you referring to the rests between sets? Because when focusing on a strength based routine with heavy weight you want LONGER rest periods not shorter.

I'm also disappointed in how many people are shunning weight training as a way to become a better climber. It's ridiculous. A GOOD program with GOOD nutrition will produce REAL results on the rock.

So lets make a study.

50 climbers spend an afternoon in a gym to get a baseline on how hard they can climb.

Split the group into 2. One group spends 3 hours a day 3 days a week in the gym working routes with the goal of improving their climbing.

The other spends 2 hours a day 3 days a week working routes with the goal of improving their climbing and 1 hour a day 3 days a week lifting weights.

At the end of say, 8 weeks, they're tested again to re-establish a baseline.

Any guess who's improved their average climbing grade? Hint, one group has spent in 24 days of training, 24 fewer hours on the rock(plastic).

One final thing to ask, Grizvok, how many climbers have you coached to excel into the highly elite range (13+) using weight training and creatine? Just curious because from the tone of your posts, you're either an extremely qualified authority on the matter or you're talking out your ass.

"Prove that claim. Then, assuming you can do that, prove that that will improve climbing performance."


Really? You are asking me to prove THAT? That's about as basic as it gets, except when it comes to seeing if it can improve climbing performance.

Of course a 220-lb lifter is going to be able to recruit more muscle fibers in his muscles then some average 160 lb climber. Body weight has nothing to do with that though. The 160 lbs climber can still make some of the same adaptations without putting on extra mass.

Lifting weights provides neural adaptations to recruit more muscle fibers than climbing alone can...

So lets make a study.

50 climbers spend an afternoon in a gym to get a baseline on how hard they can climb.

Split the group into 2. One group spends 3 hours a day 3 days a week in the gym working routes with the goal of improving their climbing.

The other spends 2 hours a day 3 days a week working routes with the goal of improving their climbing and 1 hour a day 3 days a week lifting weights.

At the end of say, 8 weeks, they're tested again to re-establish a baseline.

Any guess who's improved their average climbing grade? Hint, one group has spent in 24 days of training, 24 fewer hours on the rock(plastic).

They would still get 4 days rest each week. Hit the wall for 2 hours, lift for another hour. This isn't rocket science.

Go find 20 5.13 climbers and ask them if they train for climbing performance in the weight room. My guess, no more than 3 of those 20 will answer yes.

I know that you know that climbing and weight lifting and performance improvements could really never be proven.

You're arguing with 2 guys who've got many years experience climbing, climb far harder than either of you, and do it without the weight room.

They would still get 4 days rest each week. Hit the wall for 2 hours, lift for another hour. This isn't rocket science.

Lifting is effective for injury treatment and prevention. Beyond that in climbing, I've never seen anything even near effective to improve climbing ability.

The guy is making wild assumptions and making things up because some professor convinced him of something. You're defending him because the weight room is your livelyhood.

You're arguing with 2 guys who've got many years experience climbing, climb far harder than either of you, and do it without the weight room.

Go find 20 5.13 climbers and ask them if they train for climbing performance in the weight room. My guess, no more than 3 of those 20 will answer yes.

Also, most of the climbing training books, e.g. The Self-Coached Climber, specifically say that most top climbers need to do training outside of climbing, including lifting weights, to become stronger.

I have watched several high end bouldering competitions which might be the only objective way to compare performance versus weight. As the males go, the lighter the better. Outside of Sharma, 180lbs, most of the top climbers in competition anyway are under 150 lbs, some under 135 lbs. Mostly short guys, but less weight is the key.

Many of the young guys look stronger, and probably are stronger than sharma, but yet he usually beats them. He looks much smoother also, and he is very fluid. I think he is better because of technique and body movement, not strength. His core might be stronger then other climbers but not the relative strength of his fingers, shoulders or back, not at his weight.

I also think the appropriate off the wall strength training is important once you have reached a certain level of technical/body movement expertise. You can still see gains in your climbing from off the wall training but in order to leverage those gains, IMHO, you need to be technically solid.

A better solution might be to keep your weight down and climb more.

Speaking of off the wall training, I was actually wondering if angry/jay did hangboard stuff or work on campus boarding and the like.