|
jrathfon
Jan 25, 2010, 5:45 PM
Post #2 of 36
(4984 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jun 5, 2006
Posts: 494
|
mmmmmmm
|
|
|
|
|
shimanilami
Jan 25, 2010, 6:12 PM
Post #3 of 36
(4932 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jul 24, 2006
Posts: 2043
|
I'm a bit disappointed. From what I can tell, they're nothing but copies of the HB/DMM brassies.
|
|
|
|
|
jrathfon
Jan 25, 2010, 7:10 PM
Post #4 of 36
(4872 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jun 5, 2006
Posts: 494
|
yeah, and they have that same lack luster finish of the micronuts. nothing is prettier than the shine of actual brass!
i'm hoping that since they will be a domestic product, we might see a price break down from $16.50 each! ouch.
i'm also keeping my fingers crossed for BD large alloy offsets, those thing proved to be king in zion.
|
|
|
|
|
ryanb
Jan 25, 2010, 7:16 PM
Post #5 of 36
(4859 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Nov 4, 2004
Posts: 832
|
shimanilami wrote: I'm a bit disappointed. From what I can tell, they're nothing but copies of the HB/DMM brassies.
I believe the angle of flare is actually one degree less then the HB's and I think they are made of BD's harder silicon/bronze material.
How these differences play out in the field remains to be seen but, considering black diamonds micros are 15 bucks a pop I doubt the price difference will be much more then a buck or two.
|
|
|
|
|
granite_grrl
Jan 25, 2010, 7:30 PM
Post #6 of 36
(4834 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Oct 25, 2002
Posts: 15084
|
ryanb wrote: shimanilami wrote: I'm a bit disappointed. From what I can tell, they're nothing but copies of the HB/DMM brassies. I believe the angle of flare is actually one degree less then the HB's and I think they are made of BD's harder silicon/bronze material. How these differences play out in the field remains to be seen but, considering black diamonds micros are 15 bucks a pop I doubt the price difference will be much more then a buck or two.
|
|
|
|
|
evanwish
Jan 25, 2010, 10:47 PM
Post #7 of 36
(4722 views)
Shortcut
Registered: May 23, 2007
Posts: 1040
|
aren't the regular BD micro nuts slightly offset/flared?
|
|
|
|
|
healyje
Jan 25, 2010, 10:52 PM
Post #8 of 36
(4715 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Aug 22, 2004
Posts: 4204
|
Basically the HBs in a more durable alloy. Won't get beat up as much as the brassies, but won't stick as well either - the usual soft vs. hard metal tradeoff.
|
|
|
|
|
jrathfon
Jan 25, 2010, 10:55 PM
Post #9 of 36
(4708 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jun 5, 2006
Posts: 494
|
not an offset flare in a transverse dimension (think when you look at the top of the head you will have an irregular trapezoid)
|
|
|
|
|
evanwish
Jan 25, 2010, 11:55 PM
Post #10 of 36
(4649 views)
Shortcut
Registered: May 23, 2007
Posts: 1040
|
but its still offset right?
|
|
|
|
|
euroford
Jan 26, 2010, 12:04 AM
Post #11 of 36
(4637 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Aug 26, 2002
Posts: 2913
|
hey now thats pretty cool. do want.
|
|
|
|
|
caughtinside
Jan 26, 2010, 12:14 AM
Post #12 of 36
(4624 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jan 8, 2003
Posts: 30603
|
jrathfon wrote: i'm hoping that since they will be a domestic product,
I wouldn't be so sure they are a domestic product. Sorta like made in chinalots.
|
|
|
|
|
johnwesely
Jan 26, 2010, 1:13 AM
Post #13 of 36
(4557 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jun 13, 2006
Posts: 5360
|
caughtinside wrote: jrathfon wrote: i'm hoping that since they will be a domestic product, I wouldn't be so sure they are a domestic product. Sorta like made in chinalots.
China Fours
|
|
|
|
|
newriverE
Jan 26, 2010, 1:35 AM
Post #14 of 36
(4518 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Sep 6, 2009
Posts: 36
|
it's true that they're cams are made in china, but it's also true that they are the only climbing company who owns the factory in china that they're made in. So, it's a BD plant that only makes BD stuff with BD's quality control, etc... Other companies cams are made in whichever plant won the bid and was faxed the specs. That's why the C3's and C4's cost ten dollars more per piece, plain and simple.
|
|
|
|
|
johnwesely
Jan 26, 2010, 1:43 AM
Post #15 of 36
(4509 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jun 13, 2006
Posts: 5360
|
newriverE wrote: That's why the C3's and C4's cost ten dollars more per piece, plain and simple.
I somehow doubt it is that simple.
|
|
|
|
|
caughtinside
Jan 26, 2010, 1:44 AM
Post #16 of 36
(4508 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jan 8, 2003
Posts: 30603
|
newriverE wrote: it's true that they're cams are made in china, but it's also true that they are the only climbing company who owns the factory in china that they're made in. So, it's a BD plant that only makes BD stuff with BD's quality control, etc... Other companies cams are made in whichever plant won the bid and was faxed the specs. That's why the C3's and C4's cost ten dollars more per piece, plain and simple.
Other companies? Metolius, OP and Aliens are made in the USA. DMM's new cams will be made in wales, be lighter than camalots, and will cost $10 more.
|
|
|
|
|
caughtinside
Jan 26, 2010, 1:46 AM
Post #17 of 36
(4501 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jan 8, 2003
Posts: 30603
|
I'd also add that I think it's distasteful that a company which for years has sold itself as 'employee owned' went with the flow and moved manufacturing to china.
How many chinese nationals who work in that wonderful factory are owners of BD? Yeah, that's what I thought.
|
|
|
|
|
jrathfon
Jan 26, 2010, 2:35 AM
Post #18 of 36
(4455 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jun 5, 2006
Posts: 494
|
caughtinside wrote: jrathfon wrote: i'm hoping that since they will be a domestic product, I wouldn't be so sure they are a domestic product. Sorta like made in chinalots.
yeah, i was just shortening the statement, knew they were manufactured in china. i really meant a domestic company, that's not doing distribution into the US, with a middle man, etc, etc hopefully they are cheaper than dmm. $15 is still cheaper than $16.50, still pricey though.
|
|
|
|
|
the_climber
Jan 27, 2010, 4:59 PM
Post #19 of 36
(4206 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Oct 9, 2003
Posts: 6142
|
shimanilami wrote: I'm a bit disappointed. From what I can tell, they're nothing but copies of the HB/DMM brassies.
Does that surprise anyone? Take a good look at some of the other recent BD gear... the Cyborg crampon for example, looks a lot like the Grivel G14 now doesn't it.
BD was more innovative 20 years ago. Don't get me wrong, they make some great stuff...
|
|
|
|
|
dlintz
Jan 27, 2010, 5:16 PM
Post #20 of 36
(4187 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Sep 9, 2002
Posts: 1982
|
jrathfon wrote: ...i'm also keeping my fingers crossed for BD large alloy offsets, those thing proved to be king in zion.
What's wrong with DMM alloy offsets? They're pretty sweet and would likely be cheaper than a comparable BD version.
Off topic: Why is BD's site so effin' slow?!! It confuses and infuriates me!!
d.
|
|
|
|
|
cracklover
Jan 27, 2010, 5:20 PM
Post #21 of 36
(4181 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Nov 14, 2002
Posts: 10162
|
The best thing about them is that I expect REI will probably carry them, so I can get some for "free" with my dividend this year. Yay!
GO
|
|
|
|
|
vegastradguy
Jan 27, 2010, 10:55 PM
Post #22 of 36
(4119 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Aug 28, 2002
Posts: 5919
|
more info to come on these in the write-up, glad another picture was found, though- BD's stupid white display walls and the Salt Palaces stupid lighting makes it damn impossible to get a decent shot without a DSLR, which i cant afford.
|
|
|
|
|
mrtristan
Jan 29, 2010, 4:28 PM
Post #23 of 36
(3998 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jun 21, 2002
Posts: 596
|
granite_grrl wrote: ryanb wrote: shimanilami wrote: I'm a bit disappointed. From what I can tell, they're nothing but copies of the HB/DMM brassies. I believe the angle of flare is actually one degree less then the HB's and I think they are made of BD's harder silicon/bronze material. How these differences play out in the field remains to be seen but, considering black diamonds micros are 15 bucks a pop I doubt the price difference will be much more then a buck or two. It doesn't sound like they have a real edge over the DMM offsets, though availability in stores might make the difference.
I don't understand why people are disappointed that they're very similar to the HB/DMM Brass nuts!? Those are GREAT nuts! How do you improve on something so good? Making it cheaper sure would be one way...
|
|
|
|
|
granite_grrl
Jan 29, 2010, 5:46 PM
Post #24 of 36
(3981 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Oct 25, 2002
Posts: 15084
|
mrtristan wrote: granite_grrl wrote: ryanb wrote: shimanilami wrote: I'm a bit disappointed. From what I can tell, they're nothing but copies of the HB/DMM brassies. I believe the angle of flare is actually one degree less then the HB's and I think they are made of BD's harder silicon/bronze material. How these differences play out in the field remains to be seen but, considering black diamonds micros are 15 bucks a pop I doubt the price difference will be much more then a buck or two. It doesn't sound like they have a real edge over the DMM offsets, though availability in stores might make the difference. I don't understand why people are disappointed that they're very similar to the HB/DMM Brass nuts!? Those are GREAT nuts! How do you improve on something so good? Making it cheaper sure would be one way...
|
|
|
|
|
mrtristan
Jan 29, 2010, 6:02 PM
Post #25 of 36
(3968 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jun 21, 2002
Posts: 596
|
granite_grrl wrote: mrtristan wrote: granite_grrl wrote: ryanb wrote: shimanilami wrote: I'm a bit disappointed. From what I can tell, they're nothing but copies of the HB/DMM brassies. I believe the angle of flare is actually one degree less then the HB's and I think they are made of BD's harder silicon/bronze material. How these differences play out in the field remains to be seen but, considering black diamonds micros are 15 bucks a pop I doubt the price difference will be much more then a buck or two. It doesn't sound like they have a real edge over the DMM offsets, though availability in stores might make the difference. I don't understand why people are disappointed that they're very similar to the HB/DMM Brass nuts!? Those are GREAT nuts! How do you improve on something so good? Making it cheaper sure would be one way... But why should we be excited if they aren't really different (price, shape, etc) than something already on the market?
Competition in the market can do nothing but benefit us as consumers. As someone else stated, they're a slightly different shape and different alloy. I don't think these differences are big enough to be revolutionary, but maybe these WILL be cheaper than the DMMS? Or maybe it will cause the DMM versions to be cheaper? Or maybe the changes BD made really ARE revolutionary? Who knows, since none of us have tried them.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
1
