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lotze
May 19, 2010, 5:45 AM
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Have you attempted a climb. Did only part of it. But told your friends you did the whole climb?
Have you done a particular route line. But told your friends you did a more difficult one?
Have you said you did a climb in X amount of time. But this was an exaggeration?
I researched frauds in rock and alpine climbing. Many from the past. Not many in recent time. At least, not fully known. I've been saddened by a recent case. Currently there is an apparent hoax artist, as he's being called. Chad Kellogg, in Seattle.
http://mountaineeringfrauds.wordpress.com/...ore-everest-attempt/
http://mountaineeringfrauds.wordpress.com/...-fraud-chad-kellogg/
http://mountaineeringfrauds.wordpress.com/2010/03/
http://mountaineeringfrauds.wordpress.com/2010/04/
Was sent on a summary of these reports.
1- He does all of his speed climbs alone, solo, with no witnesses at his start, summit, or finish.
2- Currently alone on Everest, camping alone, climbing alone. Plans a speed climb in a few days. His trip is sponsored by Outdoor Research. His trip reports contain repeated mentions of brand names of shoes, clothes, tents, footwear, power bars, etcet.
3- No planned timers or witnesses to his Everest speed climb attempt. With a lot of the climb being done at night, and in fully gear, most people wouldn't see him, or recognize him.
4- 1998 Rainier register obtained in 2003 by Dan Howitt. Shows Chad's own signature and time listing, "4:20", his time at the summit register. When he finished back at the base, he immediately told the press his time was 3:24.
5-Denali. Speed climb done alone, solo, no summit photo, no start photo, no finish photo. He reported his climb being timed by basecamp managers Lisa Roderick and Mark Westman. Later found, both are good friend's of his. Both were asked if they timed him, and both replied they did not. No summit witnesses, no summit photos, no start witnesses, no start photos. Yes some witnesses at some points along the route.
6- Khan Tengri. Solo, alone, no witnesses to his start, no summit witnesses, no summit photos, no finish witnesses. 3 summit photos provided by Chad show none of the summit ground or background. Photos in above reports.
7- Chad has ignored yearly offers to do a fully time-verified Rainier speed climb, up to $5000 each year, offered by Dan Howitt http://forums.climbing.com/...flat&Number=2263.
8- Bill Wright author of the book "Speed Climbing" states on his website Chad's 1998 Rainier record is "bogus", because he didn't, as proven, go to the summit 14,411'.
9- Team Kilimanjaro http://www.teamkilimanjaro.com think Kellogg's Denali and Rainier "record" are "dubious".
10- Chad has criticized and maligned Dan Howitt in Adventure Sports magazine in 2004. http://mountaineeringfrauds.wordpress.com/...er-adopts-technique/
11- Internet presentations of the multi-controversies are usually responded to by a few people with attempts at personal abuse, and responses unrelated to the multi-controversies.
(This post was edited by lotze on May 22, 2010, 5:38 PM)
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technogeekery
May 19, 2010, 6:02 AM
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Why do you care? Are you his Mum?
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majid_sabet
May 19, 2010, 6:15 AM
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many top climbers have a tendency to stay low key but some do surface and when they do, they cause trouble so yes, i know few top speed climbers where their name never been mentioned anywhere but those who need to know, know them well.
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lotze
May 19, 2010, 6:33 AM
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For many, maybe most, speed climbs. If someone looks into them closely, might be surprised to find what types of problems come up.
Examples--
For two people who did a rock speed climb together, ask who timed it, might find only one person did.
Photos of watches are suspicious. They mean nothing. Same as the climber's word. Why do people use them? To make it look like the watch itself timed you? They seek something objective, and point to the watch. Watch is nothing though.
Previous records beaten by minutes or seconds.
Climbers reporting niner-times, eg, 8:59, 1:19, 23:59
Climbers reporting :01 second times, eg, 8:59:01, 1:19:01
These are all too common. Some people will do a niner-time and :01 second time, at the same time.
They need to do a sub-something time, to make it look good. And add :01 second to make it look precise. It's all about making it look good. Not about the truth.
Media seekers, promoters, sponsor seekers, money seekers. On one hand, they said "I climb for myself" and they do it alone. But when done, they sprint to the press/media/sponsors to profit, promote, advertise.
No start/summit/finish photos.
Or, self taken photos showing none of the summit.
Or self taken photos showing only the summit and none of the climber.
Climber reporting using a GPS, yet climber doesn't give GPS information to media, example, Christian Stangl's Everest north side speed ascent record.
http://www.russianclimb.com/stangl_record.html
Claim GPS timed him; fails to give GPS information to media.
Summit photo shows none of the summit.
Almost every variation is found.
Tending to think most speed climb record claims are fraudulent. Times not exactly true. Possibly only partial climb, no summit. Exaggerated times.
(This post was edited by lotze on May 20, 2010, 5:35 PM)
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boadman
May 19, 2010, 7:43 PM
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lotze wrote: I researched frauds in rock and alpine climbing. Many from the past. Not many in recent time. At least, not fully known. I've been saddened by a recent case. Currently there is an apparent hoax artist, as he's being called. Chad Kellogg, in Seattle. http://mountaineeringfrauds.wordpress.com/...ore-everest-attempt/ http://mountaineeringfrauds.wordpress.com/...-fraud-chad-kellogg/ http://mountaineeringfrauds.wordpress.com/2010/03/ http://mountaineeringfrauds.wordpress.com/2010/04/ A summary I was sent of the reports at the above links - 1- He does all of his speed climbs alone, solo, with no witnesses at his start, summit, or finish. 2- Currently alone on Everest, camping alone, climbing alone. Plans a speed climb in a few days. His trip is sponsored by Outdoor Research. His trip reports contain repeated mentions of brand names of shoes, clothes, tents, footwear, power bars, etcet. 3- No planned timers or witnesses to his Everest speed climb attempt. With a lot of the climb being done at night, and in fully gear, most people wouldn't see him, or recognize him. 4- 1998 Rainier register obtained in 2003 by Dan Howitt. Shows Chad's own signature and time listing, "4:20", his time at the summit register. When he finished back at the base, he immediately told the press his time was 3:24. 5-Denali. Speed climb done alone, solo, no summit photo, no start photo, no finish photo. He reported his climb being timed by basecamp managers Lisa Roderick and Mark Westman. Later found, both are good friend's of his. Both were asked if they timed him, and both replied they did not. No summit witnesses, no summit photos, no start witnesses, no start photos. Yes some witnesses at some points along the route. 6- Khan Tengri. Solo, alone, no witnesses to his start, no summit witnesses, no summit photos, no finish witnesses. 3 summit photos provided by Chad show none of the summit ground or background. Photos in above reports. 7- Chad has ignored yearly offers to do a fully time-verified Rainier speed climb, up to $5000 each year, offered by Dan Howitt http://forums.climbing.com/...flat&Number=2263. 8- Bill Wright author of the book "Speed Climbing" states on his website Chad's 1998 Rainier record is "bogus", because he didn't, as proven, go to the summit 14,411'. 9- Team Kilimanjaro http://www.teamkilimanjaro.com think Kellogg's Denali and Rainier "record" are "dubious". 10- Chad has criticized and maligned Dan Howitt in Adventure Sports magazine in 2004. http://mountaineeringfrauds.wordpress.com/...er-adopts-technique/ 11- Internet presentations of the multi-controversies are usually responded to by a few people with attempts at personal abuse, and responses unrelated to the multi-controversies.
Quoted for posterity. You're an ass.
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hafilax
May 19, 2010, 7:49 PM
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Scott Semple, is that you? 
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summerprophet
May 19, 2010, 9:08 PM
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Chad Kellogg may very well climb for himself, and not really give a shit about what you or anyone thinks about his ascents.
I have made some pretty notable speed ascents, and rarely do I sign summit registers. As well, if I am going light and fast, there is no room for a camera.
Really, climbing is what you want it to be. If you want to play the numbers game or timed game, that is fine, if you want to just chill and spend weeks in the alpine that is fine too.
I guess I just fail to understand why you are so concerned? Are you competing for sponsors? Has he stomped on some of your records? Is he nailing your ex?
Whenever I hear about folks tracking stats, or compiling data about climbing, I always just think that you could be actually climbing, rather than bitching about it.
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guangzhou
May 20, 2010, 1:00 AM
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summerprophet wrote: Chad Kellogg may very well climb for himself, and not really give a shit about what you or anyone thinks about his ascents.
So true. Someone will say, he's getting grant money to do this. That just means he found a way to pay for his trips.
In reply to: I have made some pretty notable speed ascents, and rarely do I sign summit registers. As well, if I am going light and fast, there is no room for a camera. Really, climbing is what you want it to be. If you want to play the numbers game or timed game, that is fine, if you want to just chill and spend weeks in the alpine that is fine too.
Again, very true. To many people seem to ficus on what other climbers are doing.
In reply to: I guess I just fail to understand why you are so concerned? Are you competing for sponsors? Has he stomped on some of your records? Is he nailing your ex? Whenever I hear about folks tracking stats, or compiling data about climbing, I always just think that you could be actually climbing, rather than bitching about it.
I'm thinking it's the Ex.
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dingus
May 20, 2010, 1:41 AM
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lotze wrote: I researched frauds in rock and alpine climbing.
You're a fucking liar right there.
DMT
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dynosore
May 20, 2010, 1:54 AM
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And we should care because........?
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lotze
May 20, 2010, 4:29 AM
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guangzhou wrote: summerprophet wrote: Chad Kellogg may very well climb for himself, and not really give a shit about what you or anyone thinks about his ascents. So true. Someone will say, he's getting grant money to do this. That just means he found a way to pay for his trips.
True "climbing for yourself" means keeping it to yourself, and friends/family. Not the media, sponsors.
Record-claims. Claimed to the media and organizations. Is not "climbing for yourself".
Chad climbs for income, reputation, advertising, and sponsors.
His trip reports, and Everest dispatches, list many names of products he uses. I wore ___ shoes, ate ___ bars, used ___ sleeping bag, and ____ tent. My ___bars were great. I did great in my ____crampons.
If Chad claims records, is awarded records, profits, then he ought to hire third parties to time his climb completely.
He knows what hiring is. He's hiring a Sherpa for food/water assistance at Camp 4, and arranging for other food/water/shelter assistance at Camp 3.
http://mountaineeringfrauds.wordpress.com/...ore-everest-attempt/
This, despite how for months he's been telling endless media his Everest climb will be "without the aid of Sherpas" quoted from Outdoor Research press release and countless other medial coverage.
(This post was edited by lotze on May 20, 2010, 5:34 PM)
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caughtinside
May 20, 2010, 4:32 AM
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Dan Howitt the leg humper again. He cuts and pastes this shit from his spank book periodically on this and a half dozen other climbing sites.
Dan, how many times do you have to get your usernamed banned to get the hint?
And we get it, you don't like this chad kellog fellow, whoever the hell he is.
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wallwombat
May 20, 2010, 4:46 AM
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So if this dude you are whining about only climbs for the media and sponsors, how come no one has heard of him?
I'd suggest you man up and STFU.
No one here cares.
(This post was edited by wallwombat on May 22, 2010, 1:56 AM)
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chrisJoosse
May 20, 2010, 4:48 AM
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lotze wrote: I researched frauds in rock and alpine climbing. Many from the past.
Pah, that's nothing. I've been researching frauds in rock and alpine climbing, but all from the future.
And in my spare time, I invented the internet!
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summerprophet
May 20, 2010, 3:06 PM
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lotze wrote: True "climbing for yourself" means keeping it to yourself, and friends/family. Not the media, sponsors..
lotze wrote: Chad climbs for income, reputation, advertising, and sponsors
lotze wrote: His trip reports, and Everest dispatches, list many names of products he uses. I wore ___ shoes, ate ___ bars, used ___ sleeping bag, and ____ tent. My ___bars were great. I did great in my ____crampons.
lotze wrote: If Chad claims records, is awarded records, profits, then he ought to hire third parties to time his climb completely.
Fuck that. We are not talking about new marathon times, or new world records, we are talking about a hobby, that in the great scheme of things nobody really gives a shit about until people start dying.
Are you asking he hire climbers to sit and hang out at the base and summit of everything he climbs? That would be the definition of cost prohibitive. For whats its worth, I will take a man at his word.... unless he proves himself to be a real shitbag. And even then, I don't much care.
lotze wrote: He knows what hiring is. He's hiring a Sherpa for food/water assistance at Camp 4, and arranging for other food/water/shelter assistance at Camp 3..
So lets hear a bit about you? Are you just an assfuck armchair climber who loves to bitch about those folks who are out there, while you sit with your glossy picture books. Chad is on Everest as we speak, likely not that far away from a friend of mine, who has been sitting out weather the last few weeks, struggling to keep food down, and dealing with tent depression.
So what have YOU done to make you an expert on such things? Any notable ascents? Do you fucking climb at all? Or are you just one of those sad fuckers who need to belittle others to make you feel like more of a man.
I give you a fair chance with your first post... but after hearing your subsequent posts, it is obvious where you are coming from.
You are an asshole of the grandest nature, and you do disservice to this sport and culture that I love and respect. You may be the singular reason to throw shitbags from El Cap.
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climboard
May 20, 2010, 3:29 PM
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Dan- please seek professional help, your meds aren't working any more.
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Gmburns2000
May 20, 2010, 4:16 PM
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Someone once said that you're a liar. Considering all you do is rant about Chad Kellog and consistently pass off your sites as some sort of official reference for all fraudulent climbing claims when, in fact, they're all dedicated toward the same guy, I'm inclined to believe them and think that you need help.
Get a life. Get laid. Raise a family. Move on.
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snoopy138
May 20, 2010, 4:20 PM
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Gmburns2000 wrote: Raise a family.
really, gumburns? you're advocating that this guy procreate? He'll do a lot less damage if he just sticks to posting stupid shit on the internet.
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hafilax
May 20, 2010, 4:44 PM
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snoopy138 wrote: Gmburns2000 wrote: Raise a family. really, gumburns? you're advocating that this guy procreate? He'll do a lot less damage if he just sticks to posting stupid shit on the internet. 
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lotze
May 20, 2010, 5:22 PM
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Chad Kellog using the honor code, to lie, is troubling.
He's a nice person, has been a professional climber since 1998, climbing since his teens, knows a lot of people.
Using his friend's trust, against his friends, is doubly dishonest.
Given the staggering apparent fraud. It's likely Chad Kellog is mentally ill with a type of Factitious Disorder [Factitious Heroism].
lotze wrote: 11- Internet presentations of the multi-controversies are usually responded to by a few people with attempts at personal abuse, and responses unrelated to the multi-controversies.
(This post was edited by lotze on May 20, 2010, 5:34 PM)
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caughtinside
May 20, 2010, 5:27 PM
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lotze wrote: Chad Kellog using the honor code, to lie, is troubling. He's a nice person, has been a professional climber since 1998, climbing since his teens, knows a lot of people. Using his friend's trust, against his friends, is doubly dishonest. Given the staggering apparent fraud. It's likely Chad Kellog is mentally ill with a type of Factitious Disorder [Factitious Heroism]. lotze wrote: 11- Internet presentations of the multi-controversies are usually responded to by a few people with attempts at personal abuse, and responses unrelated to the multi-controversies.
The only mental illness I see is from you, with your constant need to post this stuff. If you are going to go to all this effort to destroy one guy's reputation, at least use your own name to do so.
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lotze
May 20, 2010, 5:43 PM
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Dishonesty in
Rainier Ranger Department
Rainier Mountaineering Incorporated.
Knowingly lying about the number of summits.
Several people from both have found strong need to report their # of summits of Rainier.
Some claims hundreds.
Fact. Most of these "summit climbs" are not complete climbs of the mountain.
Most are 1/2 climbs of the mountain.
Starting from a high camp around 10,000 feet. For example, Camp Muir.
Not basecamp around 5400' at Paradise for example.
A climb of Mt. Rainier means climbing the whole mountain.
Not 1/2 of it.
These summit tabulators report their "accomplishments" to the media, Tacoma News Tribune, Seattle Times, advertise their resume with #summits.
Here RMI can be contacted by Guide Chat and other:
http://www.rmiguides.com/contact/contact.php
(This post was edited by lotze on May 20, 2010, 5:46 PM)
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Rudmin
May 20, 2010, 5:53 PM
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Who exactly are you Lotze? It seems clear you have some personal stake in the matter. Anonymity doesn't help your claims.
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summerprophet
May 20, 2010, 6:00 PM
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Lets Review Shall we?
Chad Kellogg
Mt. Ranier Climbing Ranger
Professional Climbing Guide for AAI, Mountain Madness and Cascade Guides
His climbing partners include Stoney Richards, Joe Puryear, and Mike Gautier. (all climbers I respect)
Has climbed serious routes in China, Himilaya, Alaska, Yosemite, South AMerica and the Pacific Northwest.
Continually CRUSHES all speed records of Portland climber Dan H.
Lotze
Refuses to identify himself. (Assumed to be Dan H.)
Continually refers to a single website, likely created by himself.
Entire history of posts deal only with a single topic - inflammitory remarks about a single person.
Has a user name which is an abomination of Lhotse.(Which pisses me off almost as much as Denali being refered to as McKinley)
(This post was edited by summerprophet on May 20, 2010, 6:12 PM)
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chadnsc
May 20, 2010, 6:09 PM
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You know this lotze guy reminds me of our own midjet a bit. . .
Well at least in stubbornness, midjet is way more coherent in his ramblings. 
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LYING ABOUT ACCOMPLISHMENTS?
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