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flashsixteen
Apr 15, 2004, 2:56 PM
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I've always wanted to make my way over to Red, but if there is prospects of sitting in the woods to have a bru ha ha with a bunch of irreverant theives, I might be making it over sooner than I think. If it were closer, I really would offer to wait in the woods all day to snag them. Surely there is enough traffic there regularly that some group could offer a Saturday just to sit around and get them. I really am not an angry man, but stuff like this makes my anger flare. My first thing would be the authorities, but since they don't care, a climbers got to do what a climber has got to do...to not only protect himself, but his fellow family.
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pawilkes
Apr 15, 2004, 4:04 PM
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i am moving down to Louisville in August for about 5 months and plan on being at the red at least every other weekend once it cools down a little bit. i just bought a new-to-me used car and am a bit worried after following this thread. i am thinking of getting an alarm put in so that it will honk like mad if anyone tries getting in to it. i figure a piece of glass will probably cost as much as some of the alarms i've found and plus it will probably help on insurance rates anyhow.
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mistymountainhop
Apr 15, 2004, 4:43 PM
Post #28 of 42
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Someone told me of a series of break inns by a couple of thieves who would hit the Red, the New and T-Wall and turn around and sell the items on ebay. Thats real sh-ty thinking whenever i buy something off ebay it could have been stolen from a climber just like myself. I was told that the rangers at the New River Gorge set up a sting and caught them...........
anyone else hear of this?
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hoppinbig
Apr 15, 2004, 4:54 PM
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Registered: May 21, 2002
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The best option would be for some entrepreneur to start a shuttle service from Miguels. Pay a couple bucks per head to drive climbers out to a crag and have a pre-arranged pick up time. Have a van driving around making regularly scheduled stops.
Sure it would take some set up but if this continues to be a problem its the only option.
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traddaddy
Apr 15, 2004, 5:20 PM
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ok, since we all know they're breaking in, as they always have. Let's narrow it down.
It seems like most of the break-ins occur in the southern region south of Miguel's.
Tell us what wall you were at when it happened. :idea:
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monstertruckmike
Apr 15, 2004, 5:21 PM
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In reply to: In reply to: In reply to: but they may have bigger guns than us... I wouldn't bet on it :lol: You got that right. Rob
you guys bring guns with you to the red? At least "bigger" ones than a shotgun, most likely "sawed off" and loaded with dear slugs?
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kyhangdog
Apr 15, 2004, 5:25 PM
Post #32 of 42
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I've been climbing at the Red for about twelve years and never had a break in or problem. Why? My cars look like shit and I don't leave anything in them at all. My car isn't worth stealing and if there's nothing in it to steal, the thieves don't bother.
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shank
Apr 15, 2004, 5:28 PM
Post #33 of 42
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In reply to: you guys bring guns with you to the red? At least "bigger" ones than a shotgun, most likely "sawed off" and loaded with dear slugs?
Never been to the Red. Also it is not physical size that matters, it is effective range, which a sawed off shotgun doesn't have much of, and capabilities of the handler, which most thieves don't have much of either.
On a side note, if you take your own car with fullcoverage and some one stole all you're old rusty gear wouldn't the insurance company give you a load of money to buy shiney new gear?
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ramylson
Apr 15, 2004, 7:25 PM
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[quote="shank"]In reply to: On a side note, if you take your own car with fullcoverage and some one stole all you're old rusty gear wouldn't the insurance company give you a load of money to buy shiney new gear?
I can comment on this one (my line of "work" after-all)..
If you have full-coverage on the car, the damages to the car resulting from the theft/vandalism would be covered under your comprehensive (now termed 'other then collision'). You would just have to pay your deductibe (whatever that might be). The actual items that were stolen would be covered under your homeowners (or renters policy) as they're not "part" of the car. Honestly, it's going to kind of depend on the insurance company who your insurance is with, as there might be some differenes in the policy form itself. The reason I say that is that you might find very limited coverage of those items within the car under personal effects. But, more often then not, they would be completely covered under the homeowners policy. Oh.. and one only one deductibe will apply between your auto and homeowners policy.
As far as the RRG goes though, been down there several times without any "issues". But, like previously mentioned, at lot of it has to deal with what's seen from the exterior of the car. A thief typically won't break into a car unless they know that there's something they can get at in a short order of time. Clean the car completely out so there's nothing that they might "think" they need..
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sandy
Apr 15, 2004, 7:53 PM
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my husband was a gear rep and years ago we had about $2k worth of gear stolen from our truck at the Red. We made a claim on our homeowners, but had a $500 deductible. (Note: homeowner's insurance and automobile insurance deductibles are seperate.) This sucked but came back to bite me in the ass years later after I had another claim on my homeowners (hail damage) and they cancelled my policy after filling that claim. I recommend saving claims for LARGE losses ($2k isn't large compared to the cost of a new roof and siding, etc.).
Reedcrr, we were hit in a significant wave of very organized thefts at the Red about 5 or 6 years ago. They caught those people, but it took a while. I recall that they were just throwing away all the camping and climbing gear, as they were after cash, credit cards, drugs and guns. They were 'locals' and not climbers. Things were quiet for the most part, for a while, but the break-ins started back up last year. It's not just climbers getting hit, but also backpackers. I don't know all the details, but people have been caught - usually when they use stolen credit cards. I suspect there are a lot of opportunists out there, since even when someone is caught, there always seems to be more break-ins. The people caught using stolen credit cards have never been climbers, but climbers are popular targets. Especially at Roadside and now the Southern Region. Last year was kind of bad. This year is starting off bad, too.
I heard that they caught the guys who did the deeds at the Motherlode last weekend, too - also when they were trying to use stolen credit cards. Again, these were not climbers. I really resent the implication that climbers would have anything to do with this, but you are welcome to boycott the Red. We aren't going to cry about it.
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ramylson
Apr 15, 2004, 8:05 PM
Post #36 of 42
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In reply to: my husband was a gear rep and years ago we had about $2k worth of gear stolen from our truck at the Red. We made a claim on our homeowners, but had a $500 deductible. (Note: homeowner's insurance and automobile insurance deductibles are seperate.) This sucked but came back to bite me in the ass years later after I had another claim on my homeowners (hail damage) and they cancelled my policy after filling that claim. I recommend saving claims for LARGE losses ($2k isn't large compared to the cost of a new roof and siding, etc.).
Right.. there are two deductibles, but most companies will view it as one occurance, where only one of the deductibles will apply (typically the larger of the two). Honestly, it just depends on the company.
Also, you hit the nail on the head regarding the homeowners claims. Homeowners has lost money for the insurance industry for a long time. This year is the first where they actually recorded a profit, and part of the reason why the insurance market has started to soften a bit. Even so, due to the harder market, companies have become much more stict with their underwriting guidelines. Meaning, people that have a lot, or more, claims end up having problems finding insurance. Most the companies we write for will allow one weather related claim, and then maybe an additional one. After that, they're going to be non-renewing the account. An agent will have some pull for you with the company, as they can argue the case. But, it will really help by going to larger deductibles on your homeowners to eliminate a lot of the "little" claims (as a savings to you as your assuming more risk, lowering the premium for the property).
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wildtrail
Apr 20, 2004, 3:26 PM
Post #37 of 42
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Registered: Jul 6, 2002
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This is nothing new. I was working with two guys as their journalist that were touring the country for a year climbing. They got to RRG and their truck was broken into and they lost a ton of gear. Consequently, the loss was too great and endend their year long journey in month four.
RRG isn't worth going to. It's not worth the risk.
This is around the 20th (literally, somewhere between 20-25 for sure) story about this that I've heard since July of last year. RRG can rot in hell. What's worse, local police (from what I've heard from visitors and natives) don't seem to care and aren't doing anything about it.
That's Kentucky for you, though. (hear the banjos play) :roll:
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ramylson
Apr 20, 2004, 3:33 PM
Post #38 of 42
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I think it all comes down to what's exposed inside the vehicle. I've been down there several times, and I have a lot of friends that are down there almost weekly. Now, I'll probably jinx myself with this, but none of us have ever had an issue. Of course, you take the steps of going through everything in the vehicle, first removing the items you really don't need, and then hiding (or locking up) the items that would remain in the car. In doing so, I believe the chances of running into problems decrease dramatically.
As far as local police, I know they stopped this from happening once several years ago. Basically eliminating the entire gang that was responsible for the issues. So, it's happening again. I'm sure they'll get to the bottom of it, since the climbing community down there definitely brings good money into the region.
It just comes down to "protecting" yourself..
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joshuaroe
Apr 24, 2004, 3:33 AM
Post #39 of 42
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Registered: Apr 5, 2004
Posts: 28
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Ok, everyone, i live 45 mins north of RRG, i know there are tons of break-ins and that really sucks hard core. But why boycott one of the best climbing areas east of the rockies? how about this, plan a weekend sometime within the next month, or after 29 june, meet me somewhere outside the RRG, i'll drive down, we'll lay wait for these phu^#ers and put a really bad aura on breaking and entering. I'm serious about this, i'm a KY climber and i would never imagine breaking into someone's...anything to take their stuff, though that kinda pisses me off that someone would suggest that it would be KY climbers. ok, maybe some climbers are
@s$holes but that's a major over generalization. for proof; let me know when you're going to be around and like i said, i'll drive, we'll beat the f@!k outta some would-be-thiefs, then i'll go by a beer, glass of wine, gatorade, water, whatever you all want to drink...pm me, catch up with me on msn, aim, or email me at joshuaroe21@yahoo.com
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jaylaka
Apr 25, 2004, 5:12 AM
Post #40 of 42
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Registered: May 1, 2003
Posts: 382
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definitely good ideas to here about avoiding break ins...
we stayed in the red for almost three weeks last summer, camped at miguels, and had no problems, climbing stickers be damned.
i've heard a lot about roadside, which is interesting because it is a popular (read: highly trafficked) area.
a shuttle service is a pretty damn good idea...maybe miguel would be interested in sponsoring. :wink:
and SANDY - we've gotta climb together with the kids before i leave all summer!! cole and your daughter can play in the dirt and sling trees, whatever. 8^)
jen
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ramylson
Apr 26, 2004, 1:13 PM
Post #41 of 42
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Now.. this might not be absolute, or the end of the issues down there. But, I was just talking to some good friends on mine that are down at the RRG almost every weekend. Apparantly, the vandals that were part of the entire break-in spree have been caught. They were the theives responsible for a lot of the problems up at Roadside and the Motherload. Now, this doesn't mean that it still can't happen, but it does lessen the chance..
FYI I guess..
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photon
Apr 26, 2004, 3:45 PM
Post #42 of 42
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Registered: Jan 31, 2002
Posts: 543
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To all the folks who want to boycott the red, I say thank you, you won't be missed because the place is pretty much overrun anyway. Tell your friends too while your at it. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to realize the area is smack dab in the middle of a very poverty stricken area, filled with a lot of folks who consider climbers outsiders/tresspassers on "their land". For many, many years thievery has been a problem and it will likely come and go as new thieves come and go. This issue has been broadcast in the climbing mags and more importantly by word of mouth at the RRG (miguel's at the crags). I found out about it before I went and have heard people talking about it every time I've been there. I've never been ripped off, but I also never really gave the thieves a chance to do so. The solution is quite simple, leave your valuables in a safe place, not in your unattended car in the middle of nowhere with stickers broadcasting that you have expensive stuff to steal inside your vehicle. IF you can't do this go to Miguel's and meet some folks and carpool to the crags. This is really easy to do and it works.
Anyone saying that climbers had something to do with this needs to lay of the crack pipe, you don't know sh&t!
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