|
streakingtradclimber
Jun 16, 2004, 4:17 AM
Post #1 of 93
(8302 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Apr 23, 2004
Posts: 18
|
Do you think useing a stick clipper to clip the first bolt on hard routes is cheating?
|
|
|
|
|
ax
Jun 16, 2004, 4:52 AM
Post #2 of 93
(8302 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Aug 24, 2001
Posts: 155
|
Me... I don't think it's cheating. It's smart! I even use a stick clip on easy routes. Any route with a bad ground fall. Why? well... I've broken holds off before, had my foot slip, been stung unexpectedly etc...... and I want to continue climbing today, and tomorrow, and so on.
|
|
|
|
|
okie_redneck
Jun 16, 2004, 5:42 AM
Post #3 of 93
(8302 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Apr 25, 2004
Posts: 303
|
I consider it more of a safety thing than anything else unless you want to bring a crsh pad. My left ankle that's bigger than my right ankle agrees (not a recent injury).
|
|
|
|
|
climbingurlie
Jun 16, 2004, 5:43 AM
Post #4 of 93
(8302 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Dec 11, 2003
Posts: 202
|
'Course not. I'd rather stick clip it than take a ten foot fall onto hard rock. Like ax said, it's nice to be able to live another day and not hurt yourself at the crag.
|
|
|
|
|
boltdude
Jun 16, 2004, 5:51 AM
Post #5 of 93
(8302 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Sep 30, 2002
Posts: 685
|
If the route was originally done ground-up, then it's cheating.
If it was rap-bolted, then it's not cheating.
Unless of course the ground-up FA involved a big pile of cheater stones to drill the first bolt (it's been done)...
|
|
|
|
|
qpang
Jun 16, 2004, 5:57 AM
Post #6 of 93
(8302 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Apr 6, 2004
Posts: 121
|
climbing is a personal thing. It's only cheating if you think it is. Who cares what anyone else thinks. Climbing is for your experience not anyone elses. Do what you're comfortable with and whatever makes it enjoyable for you.
|
|
|
|
|
pawilkes
Jun 16, 2004, 6:12 AM
Post #8 of 93
(8302 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jul 10, 2003
Posts: 275
|
it makes a route easier for sure. that being said, i own a stick clip and intend to use it when i am freaked about the first bolt. the first bolt is crucial and until you get there you have no protection from decking and possibly messing yourself up. if you asked me this 6 months ago, before i broke my knee/leg after decking before getting the first bolt on an easy route, i may have had different opinions.
|
|
|
|
|
berserk
Jun 16, 2004, 6:16 AM
Post #9 of 93
(8302 views)
Shortcut
Registered: May 15, 2003
Posts: 59
|
90% of all climbers cheat on several levels, ultimately to make themselves sound/look better than they really are :o
|
|
|
|
|
fadeux
Jun 16, 2004, 7:21 AM
Post #10 of 93
(8302 views)
Shortcut
Registered: May 14, 2004
Posts: 158
|
I dont understand this at all. If thats what you want to do, do it... If you feel safer, do it. Hell, I don't care how you climb it. I dont care if you even climb it. You can get a Really big guy to just throw you to the summit for all i care. I climb cause i enjoy it. Trad, Sport, Top roping, lead, bouldering, WHATEVER... Theres just something about being out there. Enlighten me as to the point of these debates? Im new to the sport and all. But I will never let a post dictate my actions.
|
|
|
|
|
cgailey
Jun 16, 2004, 8:00 AM
Post #11 of 93
(8302 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Apr 6, 2004
Posts: 585
|
Who cares?
|
|
|
|
|
c-money
Deleted
Jun 16, 2004, 8:14 AM
Post #12 of 93
(8302 views)
Shortcut
Registered:
Posts:
|
I 2nd that...
who cares?
|
|
|
|
|
overlord
Jun 16, 2004, 10:00 AM
Post #13 of 93
(8302 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Mar 25, 2002
Posts: 14120
|
i dont. if you want to stick clip it, go ahead.
|
|
|
|
|
flashsixteen
Jun 16, 2004, 12:33 PM
Post #14 of 93
(8302 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Feb 6, 2002
Posts: 159
|
Like they said, who cares. You are out there to climb and I don't think anyone would fault you. If they do, they are usually the guys who want to sound bigger than they are...or there are a lot of girls around.
|
|
|
|
|
mackavus
Jun 16, 2004, 12:55 PM
Post #15 of 93
(8302 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Aug 14, 2002
Posts: 322
|
I think that this was one of those troll where the poster stumbles backwards into the outrigger release and without even knowing how he is doing it... marlin are jumping into the boat. This one is sad.... FISH ON!!!
|
|
|
|
|
ninjaslut
Jun 16, 2004, 2:00 PM
Post #16 of 93
(8302 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jun 17, 2003
Posts: 260
|
Why do people even think about this stuff? I don't think anything you can do in climbing is cheating unless you're in a competition, and in the case of a competition, there will be judges and rules to follow. Otherwise, the worst you can say about stick clipping, or weighting a rope, or skipping the sitstart, is that they're bad training.
I say stick-clip every first bolt! If you fall and break a leg decking, the training time lost will far outweigh the fact that you didn't push yourself to clip the first bolt a few times. Sure, that will have made the climb slightly easier, but that's why you're sport climbing in the first place: you don't want to waste the time and energy of placing gear. Is that cheating? Or is that a good way to climb hard and have fun?
Basically, if you're not doing all-naked shoeless free solos, you're doing something to make the climb easier or safer. All you're discussing here is where to draw the line, and that's up to every climber to figure out for his own purposes. If you want to be a purist, take off your chalk, shoes, and tape, and say that all your equipment is there for safety, not mechanical advantage. If you want to compete, figure out the standard rules of the competitions you're interested in and always train by them. If you want to have fun, set up a top rope sometimes, skip the sit starts whenever, stick clip other times, and just climb. If you want to be a schmuck, free solo everything and make sure they write "he never cheated" on your tombstone.
- NS
P.S. Hmm... "all-naked shoeless free solos"...I think I'm going to put that on a T-shirt.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
sync
Jun 16, 2004, 2:12 PM
Post #18 of 93
(8302 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Aug 22, 2003
Posts: 125
|
According to another thread on this forum, it might be poor style, but it isn't unethical.
|
|
|
|
|
sarcat
Jun 16, 2004, 2:18 PM
Post #19 of 93
(8302 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jan 22, 2004
Posts: 1560
|
In reply to: According to another thread on this forum, it might be poor style, but it isn't unethical.
The debate on ethics in climbing vs. style is never ending. I choose to ignore the rants that involve "style" and focus on being ethical and safe. If I didn't I wouldn't have any fun.
|
|
|
|
|
rocdaug
Jun 16, 2004, 2:34 PM
Post #20 of 93
(8302 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Sep 18, 2003
Posts: 220
|
you guys crack me up.
I'm with qpang on this one. It's a personal thing.
Some of you are so busy trying to impress us with the fact that you climb without any cheat aids. How about you climb the way you like to climb and 'll climb the way I like to (with shoes, chalk, stick clips, rope, harness, etc...). ...and we both get to enjoy our experience.
So, rather than trying to guilt us into something that may not be safe for us... all in the quest for being a "pure" climber.... how about we all do what's safe and comfortable for each of us.
pure? you want pure? try levitation. now that's pure.
rd
|
|
|
|
|
tecais
Jun 16, 2004, 2:58 PM
Post #21 of 93
(8302 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jul 18, 2002
Posts: 58
|
As noted by others climbing has no rules other than don't alter the environment, so do what you feel comfortable with. The one point I would add is that maybe you should come back to the route another day when you are mentally stronger. Climbing combines physical, mental and technical abilities and many people get their biggest satisfaction from mental mastery, being able to run it out safely and in control on dangerous ground. Recently, I wished I had a stick clip for a high first bolt above the belay ledge inviting an ankle-breaking fall while trying to onsight insecure, thin moves. Instead I backed off, digested the situation a bit more in my mind and came back later mentally prepared and cruised it. Personally this was the better decision as I gained more satisfaction from mastering my inner fear than just pulling some technical moves.
|
|
|
|
|
padge
Jun 16, 2004, 3:14 PM
Post #22 of 93
(8302 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Feb 18, 2004
Posts: 189
|
I use a 30 foot stick clip to clip the the first few bolts then when I pull myself up the rope I stick clip the anchors. Is that cheating?
|
|
|
|
|
petsfed
Jun 16, 2004, 3:17 PM
Post #23 of 93
(8302 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Sep 25, 2002
Posts: 8599
|
Only if you're trying to steal the project draws.
|
|
|
|
|
dredsovrn
Jun 16, 2004, 3:27 PM
Post #24 of 93
(8302 views)
Shortcut
Registered: May 24, 2003
Posts: 1226
|
If pre-hung draws are not considered cheating, then I don't think you can consider stick clipping cheating. Especially since there are retards out there who like to remove bolt hangers on the first bolt.
|
|
|
|
|
cosmokramer
Jun 16, 2004, 3:34 PM
Post #25 of 93
(8302 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jun 1, 2004
Posts: 191
|
If you are a "go big or go home" retard, then yes, it is cheating.
If you are smart and want to enjoy a long life full of injury-free climbing, then no, it is not cheating.
|
|
|
|
|
|
1
