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nistrong
Jul 16, 2004, 11:07 PM
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SEE BELOW. :!: :?: :!: :?:
I assume that name refers to all the old bolts, although not all that artistic.
What's the word on this climb? Terrifying? Terrible pro? Or is it worth doing? What about someone who isn't crazy? Too bad I've already committed to it. Just trying to get something to work with.
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madmax
Jul 16, 2004, 11:15 PM
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I don't think the name refers to the ancient drilled angles and stardrives; I think it's something more esoteric. Anyways, Ancient Art is not a scary climb. It's super fun and mellow. If you can't or don't want to pull the 5.10 moves, it is easy to pull on a draw to get past the cruxes. I've done it about four times, and last time (in March, maybe?) twelve people summited that day, so get there early. Right now, however, it would be super hot.
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nistrong
Jul 16, 2004, 11:18 PM
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Gratzi from a Fort Lewis Grad.
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ambler
Jul 16, 2004, 11:19 PM
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In reply to: I assume that name refers to all the old bolts, although not all that artistic. What's the word on this climb? Terrifying? Terrible pro? Or is it worth doing? What about someone who isn't crazy? Too bad I've already committed to it. Just trying to get something to work with.
It's a trade route, one of the easier desert towers. In season, there might be parties going up & down all day.
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mrtristan
Jul 16, 2004, 11:29 PM
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I've never done it, but its on my tick list. Check out
http://www.supertopo.com/rockclimbing/route.html?r=deanstol (some beta and photos)
and
http://www.naclassics.com/climbs/ancienta/beta.htm (has trip reports and 3 pics) with a topo at http://www.naclassics.com/climbs/ancienta/topo.gif
do a google search to find more info. have fun, and post a TR when you're done!
-Tristan
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areyoumydude
Jul 20, 2004, 12:17 AM
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Bring a set of cams, nuts and a bunch of long runners. You can rap to the ground with two 60m ropes from the anchors above the chimney. I just did it two nights ago wearing chacos. It is in the shade in the late afternoon, but the hike in will be hot. I recommend a night ascent this time of year.
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hipdos
Jul 20, 2004, 12:41 AM
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OK it sounds great, but aren't you all scared that thing is going to snap off one day?
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areyoumydude
Jul 20, 2004, 1:08 AM
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It's bomber, dude!
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slobmonster
Jul 20, 2004, 3:52 AM
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In reply to: OK it sounds great, but aren't you all scared that thing is going to snap off one day?
It will snap off, one day. However, the time that I plan to spend on or near such a feature pale in comparison to the aeons it has existed in its present state.
That said, I have witnessed some quite significant rockfall in the desert, once from a route I had been climbing twelve hours previous. Yikes. But everyone was fine.
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gambler
Jul 20, 2004, 6:31 AM
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A "casual 5.10 route at Fisher Towers" what's wrong with this picture?
No seriously,it's way cool and the corkscrew is one of the most amazing summits i've ever climbed!You gotta wonder if those big cams shoved into the mud on the chimney pitch will hold,but it is so easy there it would be hard to fall out of that pitch.
Hipdos wrote:
In reply to: OK it sounds great, but aren't you all scared that thing is going to snap off one day?
Yes geologic events happen,I just hope it doesn't happen on the day I choose to do the climb!
gambler
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hipdos
Jul 20, 2004, 6:46 AM
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So it has been like that for thousands of years, but only recently has there been climbers crawling all over it, madly slapping for baked mud slopers as they succumb to the trouser ripping exposure. :shock:
Anyway, enjoy your summit!
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atg200
Jul 20, 2004, 2:38 PM
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tricams are especially good in the chimney - they were better than cams, as often happens in the fisher towers. the route is casual and unforgettable, and the bolts are very good for a desert route.
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nistrong
Oct 5, 2004, 10:50 PM
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OK. We tried it. We failed. I've been climbing for 11 years and I've never seen anything quite as scary as that, and I've seen a lot of scary sh*t. I got to the shoulder on top of the 3rd pitch and went liquid. I didn't even want to attempt it. My group of three was expecting me to do it, but I just couldn't bring myself up to the task. One of my buddies did give it a go, and got to the move that takes you off of the diving board. It seemed to be a slightly tricky move, and he wasn't too big on taking a fall on that manky pin that "protects" it. He backed off. I was more scared watching him cross that sidewalk, flop onto the diving board, back off and try to downclimb off of the diving board than I've been on lead in a long time. One of the major problems is, if he fell during the catwalk or if he fell on either the looped diving board or the manky pin above it and the protection failed, leading to a pendulum directly on the anchor, I think he would've taken all three of us with him. It's one thing to take a risk on lead, but none of us was comfortable with risking the whole party. I saw a few other people dance up that lead the same day. What's the difference between them and us? I don't think it's courage or balls. I think it is being conscious of the consequences and/or not caring one way or the other. I love climbing. I like being on the edge. I don't like being stupid. I'm NOT saying that anyone who does that last pitch is stupid, though. Not at all. I'm just very attached to being alive and that sucker freaked me out. I would like to go back someday and finish it. I'm not sure what that would take, but I do want it. My thoughts are to combine the last two pitches. I don't think the rope drag would be bad. That way at least you wouldn't be risking the whole party, you have more rope out in the case of a pendulum on the traverse, and bolts below that to back it up. We could station a third at the top of the 3rd pitch for pictures, but using separate bolts from the ones the leader would use. The leader would lower to those anchors and rap to the top of the 2nd from there on a second rope. Thoughts? Problems? :?: :?: :?:
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atg200
Oct 5, 2004, 10:57 PM
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In reply to: I don't think it's courage or balls. I think it is being conscious of the consecquences and/or not caring one way or the other
no, i think it is most likely just courage and balls. the anchor at the top of p3 is good and the stance is secure. you won't fall off of any of the moves before the bolts, and after that you have gear. it is a very reasonable lead and one of the easiest towers in the desert - that tower is climbed hundreds of times a year by all sorts of scared average climbers.
also, if you are going to spread climbers all over the route, do it early on a weekday. that thing is seriously crowded.
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nistrong
Oct 5, 2004, 11:04 PM
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In reply to: no, i think it is most likely just courage and balls. the anchor at the top of p3 is good and the stance is secure. you won't fall off of any of the moves before the bolts, and after that you have gear. it is a very reasonable lead and one of the easiest towers in the desert - that tower is climbed hundreds of times a year but all sorts of scared average climbers.
You call that secure? Sorry, I've seen secure, and that's not it. Also, you can't say someone wouldn't fall prior to the first pin. It's very possible actually. I've also heard that the second pin won't hold a fall. Whether the supplemental #3 cam would hold is up to debate. I know there is only one pin after that until the anchors, but I don't know how good it is. Who is it a reasonable lead for? You? What are you basing that on. You're biased and obviously have an ego. Lastly, I don't care how much it's climbed. That is irrelevant to how safe it is. I'm looking for a discussion about what I proposed.
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cologman
Oct 5, 2004, 11:05 PM
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I just did it for the first time on sunday and wow! :D I loved it. I think a careful examination of the actual dificulty of the moves involved and the placement of the fixed protection when doing those moves is mandatory. I felt a need to separate the exposure I was experiencing from the actual climbing, and that is what makes it such a great climb. I felt very safe on the majority of the climb, with the exception of actually standing on the sombero sized summit. It is pretty hollow sounding and I'm sure its days are finite, but what that is, is pretty much up in the air. Having not climbed it before I can't comment on what it sounded or felt like 5 - 10 or 20 years ago. :? I'm likely to go back though, way to cool not too! 8^)
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tradmanclimbs
Oct 5, 2004, 11:10 PM
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I witnessed a mother and son on that pitch. the guide led it and the 60+year old mom walked the diveing board but the 20 yr old son whined and crawled his way accross. it is all sac and you just have to admit it 8^) it is also mandatory to stand up on top of that wobbly block on the summit otherwise your acent dosen't count :twisted:
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petsfed
Oct 5, 2004, 11:17 PM
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3 things
1) Of course the pro is bad. That's what makes it fun.
2) If you aid through all of the bolt ladders (like I did) this thing goes at 5.8 A0
3) If you fall before you reach the first pin on the Cork Screw, you should consider using a walker on a regular basis. Its 30 inches wide, nearly flat, and horridly exposed. Its a side walk 400 feet in the air. I also did not mantle up onto the diving board (the exposure was bugging me). Instead I went down and left to the anchors at the base of the Cork Screw. The climbing on the Cork Screw proper is no harder than the chimney on the second pitch. Its just much more exposed. That's all.
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cologman
Oct 5, 2004, 11:17 PM
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To further elaborate on what I said above and possibly respond to the question posed by the original poster, It seems very sensible to me that if you have the skills to place yourself at the last belay stance you have the skills to climb the final pitch safely. I would have to agree with Andrew on the safety of the final belay stance. How you deal with your head is another issue. Safety can be a function of ability and your reaction to a given situation. If you felt unsafe making the shuffle across to the diving board and then mounting it however you choose to do that then perhaps more emphasis on your focus than on the other consequences involved will lead to success next time. It certainly is airy!
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nistrong
Oct 5, 2004, 11:18 PM
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In reply to: I witnessed a mother and son on that pitch. the guide led it and the 60+year old mom walked the diveing board but the 20 yr old son whined and crawled his way accross. it is all sac and you just have to admit it 8^) it is also mandatory to stand up on top of that wobbly block on the summit otherwise your acent dosen't count :twisted:
Granted, it takes courage to lead the last pitch. The obvious has been stated. Not doing it, on the other hand, isn't necessarily due to the lack of courage. That might be part of it, but definitely not the whole reason. There are plenty of cocky a**holes that die every year doing things that take balls, but that doesn't really justify it. There are a lot of people that climb that don't want to die doing it. And once again, I'm not asking for the blowhard responses.
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nistrong
Oct 5, 2004, 11:22 PM
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In reply to: 3 things 1) Of course the pro is bad. That's what makes it fun.
Um... For you, right? :roll:
In reply to: 2) If you aid through all of the bolt ladders (like I did) this thing goes at 5.8 A0
I'm obviously not concerned about the lower pitches.
In reply to: 3) If you fall before you reach the first pin on the Cork Screw, you should consider using a walker on a regular basis. Its 30 inches wide, nearly flat, and horridly exposed. Its a side walk 400 feet in the air. I also did not mantle up onto the diving board (the exposure was bugging me). Instead I went down and left to the anchors at the base of the Cork Screw. The climbing on the Cork Screw proper is no harder than the chimney on the second pitch. Its just much more exposed. That's all.
Probably. But it's still possible. The exposure scares the hell out of me. But that's not all. The pro doesn't help. I wonder why there's no retrobolting effort on that thing.
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joshklingbeil
Oct 5, 2004, 11:23 PM
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Does nistrong need to go to potash road and climb?
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nistrong
Oct 5, 2004, 11:25 PM
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In reply to: To further elaborate on what I said above and possibly respond to the question posed by the original poster, It seems very sensible to me that if you have the skills to place yourself at the last belay stance you have the skills to climb the final pitch safely. I would have to agree with Andrew on the safety of the final belay stance. How you deal with your head is another issue. Safety can be a function of ability and your reaction to a given situation. If you felt unsafe making the shuffle across to the diving board and then mounting it however you choose to do that then perhaps more emphasis on your focus than on the other consequences involved will lead to success next time. It certainly is airy!
Agreed. Emphasis on focus is important. It's stupid to ignore the consequences though. That's why I'm proposing the alternative.
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nistrong
Oct 5, 2004, 11:26 PM
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In reply to: Does nistrong need to go to potash road and climb?
:roll:
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cologman
Oct 5, 2004, 11:28 PM
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Certainly consequences are an important part of any evaluation. More importantly are you acurately interpreting the consequences or are your anxieties at the time influencing your intrepretations?
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