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jelliott


Aug 1, 2005, 6:47 PM
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Correct me if I am wrong but I thought Goran died because of a failed biner that possibly had micro cracks.

Nobody knows for sure, but his belayer lamented the fact that thay had not changed from the quick draws to slings for their pro on the fatal climb.

Two pieces pulled before the biner broke.

I'm guessing you brits and a few others don't understand that stiff, short, quick draws contribute greatly to lifting and otherwise screwing up gear placements.

Just to be clear


grit-freak
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Aug 1, 2005, 6:48 PM
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Aren't all of your routes like 10 meters long?


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The j_ung Dancers?

"Routes???? like 10 meters long" .........We call this bouldering!!!! :roll:


Partner johnnym


Aug 1, 2005, 6:50 PM
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"Routes???? like 10 meters long" .........We call this bouldering!!!! :roll:

And lowball at that!! :roll:


feanor007


Aug 1, 2005, 7:04 PM
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i just use quickdraws b/c right now my money is dedicated to buying more pro. i'd never heard about problems w/draws


dirtineye


Aug 1, 2005, 9:30 PM
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i just use quickdraws b/c right now my money is dedicated to buying more pro. i'd never heard about problems w/draws

You can do this little test for yourself:

Place a bunch of gear.

Clip a short stiff draw to each piece, clip a rope to the draw, and shake the rope. YOu are simulating what heppens when there is drag, the route wanders, you lean out from the wall, and all the otehr situations that can affect the placement.

Now do the same thing, but with a two foot sling instead of the draw.

Observe and draw your own conclusions.


jelliott


Aug 1, 2005, 9:38 PM
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i just use quickdraws b/c right now my money is dedicated to buying more pro. i'd never heard about problems w/draws

You can do this little test for yourself:

Place a bunch of gear.

Clip a short stiff draw to each piece, clip a rope to the draw, and shake the rope. YOu are simulating what heppens when there is drag, the route wanders, you lean out from the wall, and all the otehr situations that can affect the placement.

Now do the same thing, but with a two foot sling instead of the draw.

just my 2 cents

Observe and draw your own conclusions.

If you really in need of slings then REI has then for 16 cents of foot and make your own. I think the use of draws isn't that bad for certain situations... straight in crack, and if the route wanders that much that even a 7 inch draw doesn't work (in a pinch) then the rope will also pull on a 2 foot sling and mess up the placement. You should as a leader decide what is the best placement... hence the point of trad.


ambient


Aug 1, 2005, 9:47 PM
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You can do this little test for yourself:

Place a bunch of gear.

Clip a short stiff draw to each piece, clip a rope to the draw, and shake the rope. YOu are simulating what heppens when there is drag, the route wanders, you lean out from the wall, and all the otehr situations that can affect the placement.

Now do the same thing, but with a two foot sling instead of the draw.

Observe and draw your own conclusions.

Just to be clear..
Have you heard about double ropes.. :wink:
Yea.. Tought so..
Use them right and you won't have that problem.. And, you can do full rope lenghts raps.. :wink: And you have redundancy if rockfall or sharp edges destroy your rope.. :P


dirtineye


Aug 1, 2005, 9:51 PM
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In reply to:
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You can do this little test for yourself:

Place a bunch of gear.

Clip a short stiff draw to each piece, clip a rope to the draw, and shake the rope. YOu are simulating what heppens when there is drag, the route wanders, you lean out from the wall, and all the otehr situations that can affect the placement.

Now do the same thing, but with a two foot sling instead of the draw.

Observe and draw your own conclusions.

Just to be clear..
Have you heard about double ropes.. :wink:
Yea.. Tought so..
Use them right and you won't have that problem.. And, you can do full rope lenghts raps.. :wink: And you have redundancy if rockfall or sharp edges destroy your rope.. :P

Know what? About all I climb on is doubles.

You and jellybean sound clueless.


jelliott


Aug 1, 2005, 9:52 PM
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and fall really far if a piece blows... 16 cent a foot sling that i can make into any length or expensive second rope... my poor self will go with the 1-2 dollar slings


dirtineye


Aug 1, 2005, 9:56 PM
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I think the use of draws isn't that bad for certain situations... straight in crack, and if the route wanders that much that even a 7 inch draw doesn't work (in a pinch) then the rope will also pull on a 2 foot sling and mess up the placement.

That is just wrong. You are clueless.

In reply to:
You should as a leader decide what is the best placement... hence the point of trad.

You have demonstrated that you more than likely don't possess the judgement to do this safely.


ambient


Aug 1, 2005, 9:59 PM
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You can do this little test for yourself:

Place a bunch of gear.

Clip a short stiff draw to each piece, clip a rope to the draw, and shake the rope. YOu are simulating what heppens when there is drag, the route wanders, you lean out from the wall, and all the otehr situations that can affect the placement.

Now do the same thing, but with a two foot sling instead of the draw.

Observe and draw your own conclusions.

Just to be clear..
Have you heard about double ropes.. :wink:
Yea.. Tought so..
Use them right and you won't have that problem.. And, you can do full rope lenghts raps.. :wink: And you have redundancy if rockfall or sharp edges destroy your rope.. :P

Know what? About all I climb on is doubles.

You and jellybean sound clueless.

Well, as you might have noticed.. Or maybe not.. :P
I was a bit sarcastic..
Quite alot actually.. :lol:
But anyhow, I have never had problems with QD's on either multipitch or singlepitch routes.. althou I only use doubles on MP's..


dirtineye


Aug 1, 2005, 10:16 PM
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Now how can we have a good flaming if you are going to be reasonable???

Why don't you try my little experiment and then see how you feel? Unless you can set your nuts in tunnels or keyhole placements, or you seriously set the hell out of em, it does not take much to change their position.

I've seen quite a few nuts lift and cams walk, 'cause they were on short draws. I know at least one guy who hit the ground because they were not paying attention to this problem.


sactownclimber


Aug 1, 2005, 10:16 PM
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Nobody has mentioned the American tendency to consume . . . "If I spend more money on [fill in the blank], that will make me a better [fill in the blank]." One has to seriously consider the possibility that the typical American trad rack tends to be bigger than the typical British rack because we Americans are obsessed with getting, having, owning, possessing, as much as we possibly can. In general, there is likely no major difference between American climbers and the general American public on this one . . .

I can make no value judgement on Brits' materialistic tendencies only because I lack observational data, but there is no shortage of observational data supporting American uber-consumption.


ambient


Aug 1, 2005, 10:28 PM
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Ooh.. I'm sorry.. Let's stop being reasonable..

Well.. I know for one thing.. You are wrong and I am right.. Because you have so many more posts on RC than me, and that must mean you don't really climb.. You just pretend to..

Naw, I can't say you are wrong, and you can't really say I'm wrong.. Both of us have our own oppinions, and what we see as safe and OK.. If it works, it works.. And if one realises that the route one are on is gonna slither around alot.. Well, I for one would also use slings to minimise ropedrag.. But if not, I would rather use QD's to minimise fall length, to minimise the chance of hitting the deck, or a ledge.. :wink:


dirtineye


Aug 1, 2005, 11:35 PM
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Nobody has mentioned the American tendency to consume . . . "If I spend more money on [fill in the blank], that will make me a better [fill in the blank]." One has to seriously consider the possibility that the typical American trad rack tends to be bigger than the typical British rack because we Americans are obsessed with getting, having, owning, possessing, as much as we possibly can. In general, there is likely no major difference between American climbers and the general American public on this one . . .

I can make no value judgement on Brits' materialistic tendencies only because I lack observational data, but there is no shortage of observational data supporting American uber-consumption.

MORON!

Waste AND want, that's my motto!


stickyfingerz


Aug 1, 2005, 11:43 PM
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Re: The OP...

I don't think that there is a "typical" amerikan rack. Different areas have different needs and a standard rack from New England, where I live, would be very different from a standard rack at Indian Creek or Estes Park. For example: check out the granite slabs at Whitehorse Ledge or Stone Mountain, I don't think you'll be finding the massive racks you speak of. Similarly, go to the Creek and you might need to borrow cams from everyone you know to protect some of the splitters there.


sactownclimber


Aug 2, 2005, 12:06 AM
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In reply to:
In reply to:
Nobody has mentioned the American tendency to consume . . . "If I spend more money on [fill in the blank], that will make me a better [fill in the blank]." One has to seriously consider the possibility that the typical American trad rack tends to be bigger than the typical British rack because we Americans are obsessed with getting, having, owning, possessing, as much as we possibly can. In general, there is likely no major difference between American climbers and the general American public on this one . . .

I can make no value judgement on Brits' materialistic tendencies only because I lack observational data, but there is no shortage of observational data supporting American uber-consumption.

MORON!

Waste AND want, that's my motto!

Dang, man, no need to be a jerk about it, it was just my two cents. For what it's worth, I don't consider myself an exception to the trend of American consumption.


dirtineye


Aug 2, 2005, 12:11 AM
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I'll have you know that motto is straight out of Calvin and Hobbes.


sbaclimber


Aug 2, 2005, 12:20 AM
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Re: The OP...
I don't think that there is a "typical" amerikan rack. Different areas have different needs and a standard rack from New England, where I live, would be very different from a standard rack at Indian Creek or Estes Park. For example: check out the granite slabs at Whitehorse Ledge or Stone Mountain, I don't think you'll be finding the massive racks you speak of. Similarly, go to the Creek and you might need to borrow cams from everyone you know to protect some of the splitters there.
This is quite true, and what I would consider a pretty obvious answer to the OPs question.
That having been said... most people who have large racks are simply gear whores. They have the gear because they like the gear, not necessarily because they 'need' the gear. I like gear, and am just now moving into the area of having gear that I like, but don't necessarily need. Most people would agree, with what the OP described as his rack, as being perfectly adequate, with consideration for variation based on climbing area.
2 sets of nuts, 1 set of cams w/ doubles of common sizes, 15 (trad)draws/runners = a basic, get you up 90% of routes, rack :!:
There is another possible explanation for certain items being a 'given' in certain areas, but not in others, though...
Take tri-cams, for example, back home (Daks) any trad climber had them. Down here (NZ), most people have never even seen them! It isn't because they are of no use either. I use mine all the time, in many placements that won't take anything else. They just haven't been pushed by the stores, and the old trad climbers didn't seem to have picked up on them a couple of decades ago when they became really popular in the states.


poorboy


Aug 2, 2005, 12:43 AM
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My typical rack is 1 set of nuts, 3 TCUs and a double set of BD Camalots .5 - 3.

I think you are right in saying the differnce between UK and US climbs is that American climbs typically require multiple pieces of the same size. By contrast, in Arapiles I know there are many climbs you can protect with only a set of nuts.


Partner csgambill


Aug 2, 2005, 12:49 AM
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What's a crab?


This is a crab.

http://oceanexplorer.noaa.gov/...9/media/crab_600.jpg


montaniero


Aug 2, 2005, 1:41 AM
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One has to seriously consider the possibility that the typical American trad rack tends to be bigger than the typical British rack because we Americans are obsessed with getting, having, owning, possessing, as much as we possibly can.

The other day I rented a DVD called "Supersize Me" and the main song went something like:

"Supersize, Supersize, the American way...
Make your rack big enough, you can't climb anyway" ;)


kinosoo


Aug 2, 2005, 2:04 AM
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here are two quotes from a previous thread

“So far I have 2 sets of BD stoppers, cams 1 through 3.5 including 2 two's, the red, green and blue alien, orange metolius tcu, a trango that is about the equalivant of a 1 cam, and a set of HB's offsets. My questions is what other gear do you think I need before I can tackle a 3 or 4 pitch 5.7.”

and about the same thread

“I think everybody should start with a rack like this, complete but with a few different brands on board to try stuff out”

that rack is bigger then mine and iv gone up mutly 10's what is freaky thoe is this person i know who lead with 7 nuts and three cams for real.


Partner cracklover


Aug 2, 2005, 2:16 AM
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In reply to:
One has to seriously consider the possibility that the typical American trad rack tends to be bigger than the typical British rack because we Americans are obsessed with getting, having, owning, possessing, as much as we possibly can.

The other day I rented a DVD called "Supersize Me" and the main song went something like:

"Supersize, Supersize, the American way...
Make your rack big enough, you can't climb anyway" ;)

I honestly think that all the posts along these lines are on to something.

I typically climb with a set of nuts, a few RPs, eight or nine cams, and a half set of hexes. I'll throw in a few tricams if I think they'll go. If any of the pitches are very long, I might add a couple cams to my rack in whatever size I think the rock will take. I am not a consumer.

It's not because I can't afford the gear either (though money's a bit tight these days) or because I haven't had time to grow a rack. In fact, two weeks ago I sold three cams I do not need. And yet, wouldn't you know it, even without those three cams, last weekend I had one of the best 24 hours of climbing of my life. I climbed hard, and had a fukking awesome time. More gear does not make me more happy.

Goddamn it, say what you will, but a set of nuts - that's what makes a trad climber!

GO


Partner cracklover


Aug 2, 2005, 2:22 AM
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Hey, is a rack slang for a woman's chest in Britain, as it is in the US?

GO

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