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kachoong


Aug 2, 2005, 4:47 AM
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Hey, is a rack slang for a woman's chest in Britain, as it is in the US?

GO

I would say so, since it is also here in Aus....

I too love my nuts!!! :lol: Seriously... I forced myself the other day to put my cams at the back of my harness and I climbed a classic 30m 10b with all wires.... it was great and although I know I can climb confidently, always prefering a solid wire than a well-placed cam, it was awesome to confirm I could do without cams in most situations....


dingus


Aug 2, 2005, 5:10 AM
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Where are the screws, blades and screamers?

DMT


mtnfr34k


Aug 2, 2005, 5:55 AM
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King Rat,
Your rack certainly doesn't look to big to me. I usually carry one set of cams from #3-0.3, with doubles #2,1, 0.75. Depending on the route description/topo, I may drop the doubles, or borrow smaller sizes from friends.
I usually carry only a single set of stoppers, from #3-10, though I can add doubles and RP's if it sounds necessary.
Then I have 8 shoulder-length slings, tripled up with 'biners (or crabs), and anywhere from 2 - 6 quickdraws. Why the QDs? Because I only own eight shoulder length slings, so I use QDs for those short extensions when I can! I also add a double sling if its warranted.
There's also a small selection of gear that I expect both my partner and I to carry. I expect us both to have our own nut tool, cordellette, and three locking carabiners.
That's my general purpose rack, for use up to 5.10-. I can drop the doubles (and usually do) if its 5.9 or less, and can add gear to expand it as needed.


jelliott


Aug 2, 2005, 6:07 AM
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i like screamers with a large rack


king_rat


Aug 2, 2005, 7:18 AM
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On a multi pitch route i would just add a few screw gates to the list above.
Bolted belays? That makes a huge difference. Else you probably want 3 (sometimes more) pieces each for the belay at start and end of the pitch. And they actually have to fit.
There are no bolted belays in England, good grief do you want to be hung drawn and quartered


king_rat


Aug 2, 2005, 7:25 AM
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[quote="j_ung"]
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It would seem that the standard US trad rack is huge compared to the one a British climber would own and use in Britain.

Aren't all of your routes like 10 meters long?

Edit: And poorly protected? After watching Hard Grit, I'm under the impression that all British trad routes require are three RPs, a locker and several spotters.

:P :D[/quote

that’s the beauty of gritstone my friend. You can either get bomber gear in or nothing at all


Partner climbinginchico


Aug 2, 2005, 7:34 AM
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Where are the screws, blades and screamers?

DMT

And boltgun for when you're really sketched and can't afford to hand drill?


king_rat


Aug 2, 2005, 11:25 AM
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Nobody has mentioned the American tendency to consume . . . "If I spend more money on [fill in the blank], that will make me a better [fill in the blank]." One has to seriously consider the possibility that the typical American trad rack tends to be bigger than the typical British rack because we Americans are obsessed with getting, having, owning, possessing, as much as we possibly can. In general, there is likely no major difference between American climbers and the general American public on this one . . .

I can make no value judgement on Brits' materialistic tendencies only because I lack observational data, but there is no shortage of observational data supporting American uber-consumption.


You do see some climbers in England who have clearly just gone out and bought everything they can but have no real knowledge of climbing, I think the appropriate saying is "all the gear and no idea". excessive commercialism gets everywhere


king_rat


Aug 2, 2005, 11:37 AM
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Where are the screws, blades and screamers?

DMT

And boltgun for when you're really sketched and can't afford to hand drill?

Ha ha very funny take a bolt gun or any kind of drill out on grit and see how long you live


Partner euroford


Aug 2, 2005, 12:01 PM
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Ha ha very funny take a bolt gun or any kind of drill out on grit and see how long you live

i wish we had a little more of that around here, i got flamed yesterday for pointing out a US pro climber clipping a bolt next to a protectable crack......:?


for what its worth, i always thought a English Rack would be wild country zero's & rocks along with a couple of friends or dmm procams while a US rack would be aliens along with some BD stoppers and camalots.


petsfed


Aug 2, 2005, 12:28 PM
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What I've found is that all of these "recommended starter racks" come from beginners and people who really don't know how little they really need. The longer you climb, the less you bring. Its that simple. I haven't been doing this that long, but I carry very little gear for often very long routes. There's something thrilling about topping out a pitch and assembling an anchor with 2 nuts, a tricam, and a cam (none of them completely bomber) because that's all you had left. I think a lot of people recommend these gigantic racks because they don't want to think about encountering a placement and realizing they don't have the piece to fit it since they already used it. Learn to run it out, improvise, or find other placements!


ajkclay


Aug 2, 2005, 12:56 PM
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Yeah, you know, I have thought the same thing about the size of racks that everyone in the US seems to own too! Compared to what I and other Aussie climbers use.

Maybe I climb light, run things out a bit, but on a 30m pitch I would average 5, maybe 6 pieces (amount of gear used tends to be directly proportional to the fear factor). I almost always end up wondering why the heck I brought so much gear along. Sometimes I use more gear on the belay than the pitch. :?

My average rack consists of a set of stoppers, bd camalots .4 through to 3, 10 quickdraws, a couple of slings, and 4 screwgates. Maybe also my no. 11 hex (love that puppy). That's about it, give or take the odd random piece that may come and go depending on the route.

I'm talking about multi-pitch routes here at Arapiles or Moonarie, where there is not often a call for the same piece twice.

QD's present few problems, I do need to sling occasionally, but perhaps it's because our routes tend to wander less, or maybe because I use less gear so less friction in the system, or prefer a looser belay. And it's not an uncommon practice here.

Maybe it's also got something to do with what I had when I started; sizes 3,5,7,9,11,13 bd stoppers, 3 cams (.4, .75, 2), six quickdraws, 6 borrowed hexes, three screwgates (also borrowed) and 2 slings. You kinda get used to economising. I dunno.

Some of those pictures on the "look at this pic of my rack" threads would have more gear than the combined racks of everyone at Arapiles on the Easter Long Weekend! Seriously!

Cheers,

Adam :D


tradmanclimbs


Aug 2, 2005, 1:15 PM
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dirt in eye is obviously obsessed with the evils of draws and his own importance as well :roll: I carry about 4 to 6 draws on most long trad climbs and use them for clipping bolts, pins and cams that allready have a sling on them (if the line is reasonably straight). i also carry a screamer or maby 2 if the climb is scetch. Screamers are really just fat draws. I also carry a bunch of slings. there are pleanty of places that draws work just fine when trad climbing. No need to be anal about it :roll: its just climbing. There is absolutly no proof that Krups death was caused by a quick draw. It was more likely caused by poor placement. It is likely that a longer runner would haVe placed the biner in a better possition but there are times when the longer runner may place the biner in a bad possition. It is entierly diferent for each and every placement. there is a wonderfull 5.9 trad climb that i have done hundreds of times and i routinly use a quickdraw ona certain placment to keep the rope out of a sharp flake. I have witness several unlucky soles struggling with brutal rope drag and the liklyhood of a severed rope when the shoulder length runner they used in the same place allowed the rope to be eaten by that nasty flake. It ain't the quick draws fault, they have their uses and it is up to the leader to know what they are. aparently Dirt in brain can't seem to figuer the little buggers out so he has decided that no one should be allowed to use them :roll: Whoes the moron here :twisted:


nowinowski


Aug 2, 2005, 1:30 PM
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I think posts like this should be prefaced by your 1. hardest trad onsight 2. hardest (r) or (r/x) ascent (onsight or redpoint). Then we can tell who knows ship about ship and who is talking out their adze.


dirtineye


Aug 2, 2005, 1:32 PM
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Whoes the moron here :twisted:

Quite clearly, based on your idiotic statments above, You are.


Partner euroford


Aug 2, 2005, 1:36 PM
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i think allot of the generalities drawin off of discusion on this site are just that, overally general.

yeah, i have a pretty huge rack, and what i consider 'standard' on my rack is probobly more than some people take along. but discussions on this site don't often include how much gear was left in the car, or how much gear was left at the base! sunday i onsighted moderate terrain with a set of nuts, 3 cams 2 runners and 2 quicks, topped out with only three placements below me. but its nice to have the gear i need to climb dang near anything i want.

it is true that there is a consumer aspect to it. i admit, i do COLLECT gear. if i find a good deal on something i want, i buy it. to me buying gear is kind of like buying a key to a door. now that i have this, i can go climb this, ect ect.

i don't know much about brit climbing, but from what i hear its fairly limited, shorter routes with less gear. that would make it allot easier to pick out a handfull of key pieces and just go climbing. where i am i climb at several diffrent areas every year with totally diffrent gear requirments, and considing that allot of my longer climbing is on roadtrips i'm not about ready to blow my once a year shot at climbing something just becouse i couldn't protect it. i'm apt to be conservative and take extra gear.

i also bet the brits arn't as tempted to get into aid/wall climbing!


landgolier


Aug 2, 2005, 1:39 PM
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This hasn't come up yet, but has anybody considered the different in the amount of gear beta people tend to have in the UK versus the US? My average rack is 10 cams (green alien-#4 friend plus a #1 camalot for variety), a set of stoppers, 2 tricams, plus hexes 5-10 if it's something longer and I think I might get to the belay a bit light. I would say that this is pretty close to the standard american rack (though people here tend to have metolius or BD cams, not friends). If I know the route, half those cams can probably stay on the ground. But unless you're out in the desert and can tell you're staring at 8 1.5" cam placements, I don't know of too many places where people would try to onsight mid grade stuff with less than that. My impression (possibly totally wrong) is that on most british climbs you start out with a good idea of what you're going to run into. Comments?

Also, I was qoted from another thread earlier saying that I thought people should start out with a mixed bag rack. My point was not that the rack in question was a starter rack (I think the guy had like 12 cams, which is a pretty full rack), but rather that there's nothing wrong with having a few different brands/styles of cams covering the basic range when you're getting started so that you can see what you like.


ajkclay


Aug 2, 2005, 2:07 PM
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i don't know much about brit climbing, but from what i hear its fairly limited, shorter routes with less gear. that would make it allot easier to pick out a handfull of key pieces and just go climbing. where i am i climb at several diffrent areas every year with totally diffrent gear requirments, and considing that allot of my longer climbing is on roadtrips i'm not about ready to blow my once a year shot at climbing something just becouse i couldn't protect it. i'm apt to be conservative and take extra gear.

i also bet the brits arn't as tempted to get into aid/wall climbing!

Dude, you couldn't be more wrong...

For a start, the Brits pretty much invented climbing.

Second, aid and big routes aren't the domain of the US.

And their climbing is not limited by any stretch of the imagination.

No offense intended, but they were some pretty silly and uninformed sounding statements mate.

:)

EDIT: They suck at Cricket though :P


tradmanclimbs


Aug 2, 2005, 2:12 PM
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What is so idiotic about clipping a bolt or a pin with a draw? what is so idiotic about useing a shorter draw as a directional to keep a rope out of a flake or away from a sharp edge? clipping a draw to an alien that allready has a fairly long runner sewn into it? If you can't figuer out how to utilize a few draws when trad climbing you are either pretty fucking stupid or stuborn or both :roll: You certainly don't have to carry them if you don't want to but to condem anyone who uses a draw on a gear lead is totaly narrow minded and stupid :roll: I have been leading on gear for 22 years and seem to get it done just fine regardless of the fact the you don't like draws 8^)


kpj240789


Aug 2, 2005, 2:45 PM
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Quickdraws and trad? Why do you brits think that is a good idea?


Ahh to extend your nut placments! how else would you do it?

With a sling.

Ask Goran Krop what he thinks about quick draws and trad placements.

If Goran Krop was still alive I'd love to ask him


dirtineye


Aug 2, 2005, 3:16 PM
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What is so idiotic about clipping a bolt or a pin with a draw? what is so idiotic about useing a shorter draw as a directional to keep a rope out of a flake or away from a sharp edge? clipping a draw to an alien that allready has a fairly long runner sewn into it? If you can't figuer out how to utilize a few draws when trad climbing you are either pretty f---ing stupid or stuborn or both :roll: You certainly don't have to carry them if you don't want to but to condem anyone who uses a draw on a gear lead is totaly narrow minded and stupid :roll: I have been leading on gear for 22 years and seem to get it done just fine regardless of the fact the you don't like draws 8^)

Proving once again that experience is not necessarily good experience, and that some people get by on good luck and the grace of god, and think that it means they know what they are doing.

If you can't figure out what could be wrong with clipping a pin short on a trad route after all this time, you ain't gonna get it now.

Yeah, I'm narrow minded, stupid, and ignorant, but I don't have rope drag and my gear does not lift or shift. And in spite of all my short comings, I have been able to figure out that a tripled sling is more flexible than a sport draw and can always be extended when you need it, unlike your precious sport draws.


Partner cracklover


Aug 2, 2005, 3:21 PM
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Quickdraws and trad? Why do you brits think that is a good idea?


Ahh to extend your nut placments! how else would you do it?

With a sling.

Ask Goran Krop what he thinks about quick draws and trad placements.

If Goran Krop was still alive I'd love to ask him

His name's spelled Göran Kropp. I can see skipping the umlaut, but if we're going to raise the dead to prove a point, let's at least give his name the two "p"s, eh?

And yes, it's a fair guess that the stiff quickdraws may have contributed to some of his placements walking in the slick stone, and then pulling. But that's not to say that a QD cannot serve a purpose on a trad climb. Matter of fact, a "full length biner" is plenty long enough for some of my placements.

GO


nowinowski


Aug 2, 2005, 3:25 PM
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dirtineye -- maybe the grit in your cornea didn't allow you to see the my previous post. Maybe it never occured to you that someone might use a QD or clip their gear *gasp* straight, because they are climbing hard and want a nice clean clip. And, that they might know what they are doing


keithlester
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Aug 2, 2005, 3:37 PM
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Correct me if I am wrong but I thought Goran died because of a failed biner that possibly had micro cracks.

Nobody knows for sure, but his belayer lamented the fact that thay had not changed from the quick draws to slings for their pro on the fatal climb.

Two pieces pulled before the biner broke.

I'm guessing you brits and a few others don't understand that stiff, short, quick draws contribute greatly to lifting and otherwise screwing up gear placements.

We understand fine, I think the original poster was more interested in the huge difference between the amount of gear he saw US climbers carrying and the amount he finds neccesary, We tend to call anything consisting of a sling and 2 crabs, a quickdraw, whether it be six inches or a couple of feet.


dirtineye


Aug 2, 2005, 3:38 PM
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dirtineye -- maybe the grit in your cornea didn't allow you to see the my previous post. Maybe it never occured to you that someone might use a QD or clip their gear *gasp* straight, because they are climbing hard and want a nice clean clip. And, that they might know what they are doing

What you are trying to say is that you are not up to the physical demands of the climb and can't pro it properly, so you cut corners, treating a trad climb as if it were a sport climb.

Go ahead, spray all you want, see if I care.

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