I have been climbing for about a year now... I do plan on soloing a route in a couple months, one that I have TRed many times... I got up there knowing my limits.

You cant treat climbing as though every move could be fatal, it is like acting as though you are invinsible. I dont care if you onsight 5.13's, you can't prevent the unpreventables... rock fall, bee stings, holds breaking, etc...

Free soloing can be seen as something you do alone and talk about with yourself.

To solo and think that it is only about climbing is extremely naive. You need to come to acceptance that the unpreventables are in fact part of soloing and to think that they arent is basically thinking that you are invincible.

I am wondering if there are mental techniques that can be learned from people who solo that can be applied to all forms of climbing. The reason I ask is because I feel like soloing involves a huge mental component.

For those who think that there is nothing to learn from soloing, I would point out that bouldering and highball bouldering, especially when done onsight, definitely builds the ability to focus, to assess risk, and to commit-- because the penalty for failure is a short and abrupt meeting with the ground!

Soloing is also the ultimate acceptance of responsibility

Acknoledging that a fall will kill you and still continuing, represents a real dedication to your reasons for climbing.

Acknowledging that a fall will kill you and still continuing suggests that you don't place a very high value on your life. Most healthy people would question why they're putting their life at risk.

If you are making a move that is best done by using momentum, when you hesitate, your momentum is lost. I've seen people make a half-effort three times, then fail to pull the move at all when they finally convince themselves to go all out, because their energy was drained in the three half-attempts.

For the record, I am not a rock warrior, I've never read the book, I think self help books are junk, and if you don't have it mentally...then only you have what it takes to get it mentally.

I've recently free-solos several routes. Some hard, some easy, blah, blah, blah. Here's the deal. It is all about trust, trust in your body, skills, and judgment. It doesn't do a whole lot for the lead head.

It's only soloing, don't freak out people. If you have to ask, you aren't ready.

Let's stop pretending that soloing does not exist or that it is something that you should not discuss. On this site it's only ever discussed in hushed tones as if it is a crime.

The short answer: If you are a responsible climber the mindset is the same as any other form of climbing, you consider the risks, and then once your decision is made you climb accordingly, that's all.

I would never look down upon someone who solos.

Other people stating that climbing is super dangerous is uneducated...
...Why do I need to be an experienced soloer to comment on the fact that it is dangerous, when it is.

Soloing there is no protection.

To those who do not solo and criticise it for being unsafe, soloing appears to be dangerous because they do not understand the considerations and systems used by the soloist.


This assumes that the only protection is what you can buy at a climbing shop. As a soloist you are using the best form of protection there is: Your brain. End of story, no correspondence to be entered into.

Damn straight.

Ive found soloing is not something you think too much about. seems to me that if your doing it correctly it just happens and you feel safe and liberated during the climb. It feels like your just above the ground, bouldering even, even if your 50ft up. ive never used any of the techniques from the book when soloing becasue they dont apply! its a different ball game. there should be no fear to deal with as far as im concerned! if there is your probably in trouble lol.

"you can't prevent the unpreventables... rock fall, bee stings, holds breaking, etc..."

A silly argument IMO. Consider an analogy. Probably everyone on this site drives. You can't prevent the unpreventable... drunk drivers, blowouts, a deer in the road, etc...

So should we give up driving? After all, I have known more people who were injured or killed in auto accidents and other mishaps than soloing/climbing. In fact I have personally known may climbers who solo and can't think of a single one (who I've know personally -- please don't reply with a list) who died soloing.

Its true that climbing is a recreational choice and driving is not for most people, but you can't control the unpreventable in ANY aspect of your life. With soloing, I try to reduce the risk -- I stay within my limit, I don't solo knob climbs since knobs have the unfortunate tendancy to break, and during lightning storms I tend to solo sixpack instead. Living is dangerous -- THERE ARE NO SURVIVORS! But don't give up living.

you examine soloing to any degree beyond what a bad-ass it makes you feel like for a day or two before your poor self-esteem (hey, it goes hand in hand with free soloing) brings you crashing back to reality,

Free soloing has nothing to do with your self esteem or your ego. Its all about knowing your abilities and skills, self confidence in these. The risks are'nt there. You don't see people soloing routes they don't think they can handle, they've already sized it up in there mind, visulized a way up, and, or back down if need be. Is it a 100%, no, but then neither is roped climbing.
The is no ego in it, just self confident. If its a false confidence, then your gonna die. Ego is false confidence.

Don't even attempt the activity if you are doing it for anything other than personal reasons. If you are soloing for anything other than person fulfillment and/or enlightenment, then the joke will be on you when you fall.

I guarantee that every person who free solos on a regular basis knows this. I can also assure you that you don't need to ask questions about how and why to solo. Anyone who is seriously contemplating free soloing will know when and if they are ready to actually do it. It is that simple, which is probably why your book doesn't talk much about it.

A few things to think about.

do the work to find out the truth. In this case, solo or be quiet.

Soloing is perfection, there is nothing really to learn from it, it is completly different from roped climbing mentally.

People care if others free solo because climbing related deaths can be a huge hinderance to access to crags. Non-Climbers dont know the difference between different types of climbing, it all the same.

Soloing is also the ultimate acceptance of responsibility. Acknoledging that a fall will kill you and still continuing, represents a real dedication to your reasons for climbing.

Soloing is also the ultimate acceptance of responsibility. Acknoledging that a fall will kill you and still continuing, represents a real dedication to your reasons for climbing.

A little indian brave who before he was ten,
Played wargames in the woods with his indian friends
And he built up a dream that when he grew up
He would be a fearless warrior indian cheif
Many moons past and more the dream grew strong until
Tomorrow he would sing his first warsong and fight his first battle
But something went wrong, surprise attack killed him in his sleep that night

And so castles made of sand melts into the sea, eventually

A few things to think about.

We all tend to judge something without knowing that something. The book is bad because we don't like the cover or because of what someone else said about it. If we choose to criticize, do the work to find out the truth. In this case, solo or be quiet.

We tend to object to situations or experiences that we fear. Is soloing crazy or are we just afraid of it? This view has nothing to do with US engaging the activity ourselves. It is simply a willingness to look inside ourselves for why WE are resistant to someone else doing something like soloing.

Life is to be lived, not for anyone else but for yourself

We've all experienced ego motivation and probably soloed driven by it. If we die because of that then that's just the way that experience goes.

So, how do you relate to death? Should you live your life in your comfort zone just so your loved ones will always have you there? Can you even live there? Isn't life about growth and if you don't align with growth you're on your way toward death anyway? What kind of message does striving for the comfort zone send to those kids? How about, "get a secure job; strive for money because that will make you comfortable; etc".

Should you live your life in your comfort zone just so your loved ones will always have you there?

Can you even live there? Isn't life about growth and if you don't align with growth you're on your way toward death anyway?

What kind of message does striving for the comfort zone send to those kids? How about, "get a secure job; strive for money because that will make you comfortable; etc".

Wasn't it Bridwell who when asked about soloing, said (and I'm going on a none-to-clear memory), something like "So little to gain, so much to lose"?
...
It's an inherently selfish act, and I no longer have the luxory of that sort of brazen selfishness. I intend no judgement of others who choose differently, I'm just calling it like I see it.

I had the same attitude that all the other soloers here seem to have, that is, that I was so in control, on ground that was so easy, that I couldn't possibly fall.

But on that day, I went from fearless warrior-dude, to quaking, sniveling wierdo in the space of a minute.

Think it can't happen to you?

It's happened to most of our soloing heroes.

Interesting thread. I don't know that I necessarily agree with the generic all soloing is bad. In the area I climb (Oklahoma), many, many of the leads were put up by ironman climbers (Duane Raleigh, Tony Mayes, Russ Hooper). The first bolt on many of these climbs is 40 or 50 feet above the ground. A leader fall from that height would surely not be good.
I recently led a a 5.6 where the first bolt was 50 feet above a heinous boulder field and the second bolt was 40 feet above that. What is that but a solo. I went back and soloed the route, and felt the same as when I lead it because the worst fall potentional occurs before you are protected. Anyone who leads is essentially soloing to some degree. That's why we generally lead at a couple of levels lower than we can comfortably climb.

I think the point Arno is trying to make is essentially you have to be comfortable and accepting of the level of risk you are taking every time you climb.

Someone in here said, earlier, that everyone's first trad lead is a solo. That's definitely true. When you're learning to lead trad, every climb is a solo. If you're unlucky enough to fall on your first lead climb, you'll most likely die, because, honestly, that nut really didn't fit in that part of the crack . . .
And as far as making a habit of soloing . . . it IS about you and the rock. It's a selfish thing, just like climbing, more or less, is a selfish sport. (I'm not saying that's a bad thing, mind you . . .) So if you're gonna solo, you'd better not have a wife and kids or anyone else financially dependent on you; or else you're just an A-hole. That's my humble opinion.

CrimpAndGo,
I totally agree that it's a bad attitude to have. But there's no way around it. I haven't been leading trad for very long, but I followed a s--- before I attempted to lead. So I had a pretty good idea of what to do.

Still doesn't change the fact that, like anything, you're only gonna get good at it if you try it.

And trying usually means messing up. That's why you start leading on easy 5.6 and below. That way, it's okay to mess up, because you're 99% guaranteed not to fall. If you're part of that 1%, well . . . maybe you shouldn't have pissed God off by doing whatever it is you did.

CrimpAndGo,
I totally agree that it's a bad attitude to have. But there's no way around it. I haven't been leading trad for very long, but I followed a s--- before I attempted to lead. So I had a pretty good idea of what to do.

Still doesn't change the fact that, like anything, you're only gonna get good at it if you try it.

And trying usually means messing up. That's why you start leading on easy 5.6 and below. That way, it's okay to mess up, because you're 99% guaranteed not to fall. If you're part of that 1%, well . . . maybe you shouldn't have pissed God off by doing whatever it is you did.

CrimpAndGo,
I totally agree that it's a bad attitude to have. But there's no way around it. I haven't been leading trad for very long, but I followed a s--- before I attempted to lead. So I had a pretty good idea of what to do.

Still doesn't change the fact that, like anything, you're only gonna get good at it if you try it.

And trying usually means messing up. That's why you start leading on easy 5.6 and below. That way, it's okay to mess up, because you're 99% guaranteed not to fall. If you're part of that 1%, well . . . maybe you shouldn't have pissed God off by doing whatever it is you did.

Why? What's the point? All they have done is set up dangerous climbs for others to follow.

And as far as making a habit of soloing . . . it IS about you and the rock. It's a selfish thing, just like climbing, more or less, is a selfish sport. (I'm not saying that's a bad thing, mind you . . .) So if you're gonna solo, you'd better not have a wife and kids or anyone else financially dependent on you; or else you're just an A-hole. That's my humble opinion.

I think it might be prudent for you to define what "easier" means. My defintion of "easier" is not the Grade. My definition is based on the protection quality.

Easier is protection quality? routes like Rubies Cafe must be a hike for someone like you then :wink: .

Point taken though, Trad climbing especially when first starting out is mostly a mental game, even after years of following and knowing what a good placement is totally different than completely trusting a placement, its kinda like falling with a slack in a toprope to learn how to take lead falls, its just not the same. Which is what i think that rockkid is trying to get at, not that your first lead is like soloing in that the placements aren't solid, but that you don't quite trust them yet, so in your head its still "leader must not fall".

clmbnski wrote:

Quote:
Soloing is also the ultimate acceptance of responsibility. Acknoledging that a fall will kill you and still continuing, represents a real dedication to your reasons for climbing.


I'm very curious about your reasons for climbing. Putting your life at risk and feeling like a warrior are two reasons we can ascertain from your post.

Putting your life at risk and feeling like a warrior are two reasons we can ascertain from your post.

Do you honestly acknowledge that you could lose your life?

I am not sure what your point is about Rubies cafe. That is a 5.12 or 5.13 in Utah isn't it? I hardly think that is considered a climb a noob would think about starting out on.

My point was placement quality does not always factor into the climb rating. Noobs should considered the quality of the placements as well as the ease of climbing moves.

As for your analysis of rockkid's intentions. You are probably correct. But , I just have a sneaky suspicion the mind set "This is so easy I won't fall" is too prevalent. As the climbing population grows you read more articles about people getting injured in situations that clearly indicate a little knowledge and education and a little common sense would have prevented.

Just my take.

I can jug anything you can climb...crimp or die

I have been climbing for ten years now and I just started soloing this year I started at 5.6 and this past weekend I did a 5.9 as well as a 5.10 the 9 was about 35m and the 10 was 20 m it was a great time I found that I focused more on what I was doing .Not saying that I will make it an every day thing to solo but I will do it now and then just remember soloing is just a little longer then the normal bouldering route. Soloing will help your climbing out a great deal the same to be sead about climbing in boots ie hiking and or mountaineering you have to be more aware of were your feet and hands are beening placed. After doing this type of training you will find that your climbing at harder levels ie if you solo at a 5.6 then sport and even trad levels at the 20 or 11 will be a little easy er so to to speak.Just remember when soloing know your limits and always listen to your gut but when on the sport route push your self past the comfort level.

Classic - a noob telling noobs how great climbing unroped will be in helping to raise their skills and confidence. I was just telling a friend how much money he could save by doing his kid's dental work, himself.

I believe it's time to flush.

im trying to figure out why he is a noob- is this because he doesnt have but 3 posts? Actually maybe the reason he doesn't post is because hes out climbing instead of talking crap on some website!

im trying to figure out why he is a noob- is this because he doesnt have but 3 posts? Actually maybe the reason he doesn't post is because hes out climbing instead of talking crap on some website!

Soloers are dumb AND egotistical. The above post proves it.

I guess I'm just bothered by this "warrior" business. A warrior is described in websters' as a fighting man. I guess someone soloing could be thought of as a fighting man, but that makes it seem silly to me. Sure, life is full of wonderful folly and games - climbing being one of them - but when you have youngsters going around soloing and comparing it to a warriors' mentality, well, it just seems to be a step past folly, and worth questioning for the sake of the youngster.

keep on climbing and fellow your heart

I just got back from yet a more time spent out in the mountains then on this mountaines and for all this winning OH MY GOD GET A GRIP AND SUCK IT UP and just climb for the love of it what ever you are in to. just fished off one of the big ones in Canada mount Robson which is 12,972 feet vie the north face[ the Kain face] but hay from what Mr know it all is saying don't listen to anyone if that is it how did any of us learn how to climb I learned off of guides oh is that why I became a mountain guide? ya I did not post much as i am in the hills a lot sorry.