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leinosaur
Oct 3, 2005, 1:20 AM
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I'm giving serious thought to a medical career but have been warned that I would have to give up climbing due to the school/workload.
I'm a pretty efficient student and interested in family practice and wilderness medicine.
The question is: are you, or do you know any doctors that climb with any regularity? I've been pretty much a "weekend warrior" enjoying a teacher's schedule with longer forays in the spring and summer.
Put another way, can one become a family doc, and continue to climb and spend time with my family?
If not, what "near-doc" profession would be most conducive to continued climbing, e.g. Physician's Assistant, Nurse-practitioner, etc?
I'm in the pre-med stages and trying to be circumspect. Thanks for your help!
Rob
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tradrenn
Oct 3, 2005, 1:30 AM
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I only know one doctor that climbs. He usualy goes top rope or sport climb outdoors every 2 weekends.
On the other hand this is a sport that takes dedication, you (or any other person ) can make time. My partner is a mother of 3 kids and she still can make free time to go climbing with me 3 days a week.
Hope that helps.
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misanthropic_nihilist
Oct 3, 2005, 1:31 AM
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I'm an engineering student at Cornell, and I've had to give up a TON of climbing time. Before I started taking my major related courses, I was able to climb 4-5 times a week. This semester I'm lucky if I get to the gym once a week (although I do work at a dining hall ~12 hours, plus an additional 12-15 hours per week rigging for/teaching a tree climbing class). I assume a pre-med degree would be about the same amount of class work time.
I find that after sleep and school work (assuming you aren't in some pathetic major, like hotel administration), you have about enough time for 1 extra activity. Whether that activity is a job, a girlfriend, or climbing, after you take out time for that and school, what you have left is sleep (and usually not as much as you want).
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climbingbetty22
Oct 3, 2005, 1:43 AM
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While you may be able to make it work while you're in med school, I'm sure once you start your residency, the last thing you'll want to do after a 36 hour shift is head straight out to the crag.
It depends on your situation too. If you're married and have a family, then med school will probably take enough time away from them, much less adding climbing trips on top of that.
It depends on what your motives are too. What do you want to get out of being a doctor and are those things that can be satisfied with a simliar profession or not? A good friend of mine works as a paramedic. So it only took him a max of two years to become licensed and now he works a couple 24 hour shifts and when he gets off his shift in the morning, he goes climbing that day. Working the 24 hours shifts means that he work a total of about 10 days a month, the rest all days he has to go climbing. So that may be an option worth considering.
If you just want a professional career with time to climb, I'm currently in chiropractic school which I love. I get all the great aspects about working with and treating patients, learning anatomy and physiology and helping people live better lives, but I'll also have a good schedule that will allow for climbing on the weekends and such once I finally graduate.
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climbs4fun
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Oct 3, 2005, 2:03 AM
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Depends on what kind of dr. My best friend is a doctor and his schedule is erratic. He tends to work around 14 days a month and will typically climb on his days off. He is an ER doc, and therefore not on call which helps. He says that he started climbing when he was a Resident.
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harmonydoc
Oct 3, 2005, 2:07 AM
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I'm a doctor, but I don't practice anymore (except occasional volunteering). I work in biotech/research now. For me, the personal stresses of being on call, being tied to the pager every 5th day, combined with declining compensation (pediatricians in my area make less than some nurses do) made me take a long hard look at my future and change gears. I practiced for 2 years post residency in a medium sized city with no teaching hospital. There are parts of it I miss, but overall it was making me physically, mentally, and emotionally unhealthy.
I know there are some medical residents on this site, hopefully they'll see this and respond to you too. Residency IS very demanding, but you switch rotations every month or so. Some months you'll have no time for anything but work and basic needs (occassional sleep and food), and others will be more mellow. Residency is only part of it, though. For me the demands of primary care practice didn't fit well with my personality; it required constant reactivity to the demands of others, rushing from patient to patient, seeing mostly the same things over and over, with the occasional stressful difficult situation that I didn't feel prepared for. I'm much happier being able to control my work flow, to read, research, and be a little more proactive in my work instead of constantly reacting to outside forces.
I'm not saying don't go into medicine. But talk to as many physicians as you can before spending so many years of your life in med school to try to get as much perspective as you can.
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karlbaba
Oct 3, 2005, 4:22 AM
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I climb with a lot of professionals. Doctors are about the rarest of climbing professionals.
Nurses and PA's a little more.
Lawyers even more often.
Computer programmers and engineers of all sorts, they climb like mad.
Academics seem to do OK.
Peace
Karl
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tim
Oct 3, 2005, 5:42 AM
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Why don't you ask crackmd, he's an MD (full fellowship in fact) and manages to pull down hard (as in, half a dozen ascents of Astroman, 5.11 FA's, that sort of hard).
Steve Hong is an MD, also one of the strongest climbers in USA in the 80's and 90's, putting up 5.13 crack climbs and 5.14 face routes for years while raising kids and running a private practice.
What I'm really saying here, is that if you are Type A enough, you'll pull it off.
The bit about residency is no joke, though. My sister is doing her ortho residency right now. She is probably the single most Type-A person I know, and she's completely wiped out at the end of some of her shifts. In a few years, though, she'll be done with this bullshit and can basically make as much money as anyone could possibly need. You gotta suffer for the cure, I guess.
ps. She's not in it for the money, it would have been a lot cheaper and faster to go to law school ;-). But there is an upside to working like hell, on something that interests you, for years on end, and paying your dues.
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peteripnar
Oct 3, 2005, 6:56 AM
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there is a guy by the name of Noah Kaufman out here in ohio.... i'm pretty sure he is a doctor and a sick climber... maybe has declined in strength since becoming a doctor but can still pull alot harder than i can... and he's a real friendly guy, if you look for info about him online, i'm pretty sure he has a website.... talk to him about juggling climbing and practicing medicine, he will probably have some good advice.
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dood1983
Oct 3, 2005, 3:04 PM
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woof woof woof!
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leinosaur
Oct 3, 2005, 3:49 PM
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Thanks for the bump, dood - and the informative PM.
(he's a buddy from my WFR course last summer - the course that got me re-ignited to change career tacks from teaching languages to medicine. His dad, brother & other Navy buddies are docs and it seems to him that residency is the only time a guy really won't have time)
Anybody else w/related knowledge or anecdotes, I like to get as many perspectives as I can, to sift through - please, and thank you!
PA's & NP's, too - I'm considering many options at this point.
p.s. I just turned 34 so a PA path is attractive as I could start that career sooner. Just starting to compare pay and flexibility.
Thanks
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renohandjams
Oct 3, 2005, 3:59 PM
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In reply to: I'm giving serious thought to a medical career but have been warned that I would have to give up climbing due to the school/workload.
I am pre-med and I still find time to climb and snowboard, it depends where your priorities lie. I think during the 1st 2 years there won't be very much climbing because of the load, but I am aware of an MD in the Reno area that climbs a ton with his entire family all over the world. That is like saying, will I be able to do ANYTHING if I'm an MD? Of course you can. Where are you hoping to go to school? U of U (good climbing), UNR (good climbing), etc.. etc..
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fearless1
Oct 3, 2005, 4:09 PM
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I'm a nurse practitioner and this year I have been to J tree, climbed Devils tower, climbed the Gunks 5 weekend , and one trip to NC. I climb with a computer programmer, but one of my other occasional partners is an MD in Maryland...He climbs 2 times a week and he is a solo practitioner with 2 PA's....he climbs out of state at least once a month. If it is something that you love to do ( climbing) then you will find time. It might only be your local crag for a while, but you will be able to squeeze trips in occasionally. I wouldn't chance career plans just because you are a climber. Go for the occupation that you really want to do :) Good luck
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gordonl.larsen
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Oct 3, 2005, 4:13 PM
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I practice Emergency Medicine and rock climb on a regular basis. I didn't start climbing until after my residency, therefore, I couldn't tell you what it would be like during those years. I suspect that there would be long stretches of inability to get out and climb outside. A home gym might get you by. It helps to live in an area that has lots of climbing crags nearby (St. George, Utah) so I can get in a couple of hours of climbing before or after a shift in the ER. On of my challenges is to find a partner with a similar schedule. I work about 16 shifts a month (10 hours shifts), so I have plenty of time to get out. Once a month I usually have 5 days off in a row and can get in a "road trip". I think emergency medicine gives you the greatest flexibility to climb compared to other specialties in medicine. I have been able to travel to other countries and climb some mountains the past few years. If I wanted, I could cut back my shift load to 10 or 12 a month (just not make as much). I agree with what has been previously said on this forum. Make darn sure you like medicine before you devote 8 years of intense training to get there. It is difficult to change your course once you have invested the time, money and energy to obtain that level of education. How hard can I crank? Well, I started climbing at age 36 (7 years ago) and I am still improving. I am scoping out my first 5.13 project this fall and I'm comfortable climbing hard 5.10 trad. See you in the mountains! Gordon Larsen M.D.
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leinosaur
Oct 4, 2005, 4:13 PM
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Crank on, Gordon. I, too, started in my thirties (2 years ago at 32) and am still improving - my projects are still in the 10+/11- range at the most.
My interest is mostly in family medicine and I've recently gotten pretty interested in PA programs, as I could be out there practicing much sooner, and without missing my son's pre-teen years due to residency.
Seems like there are tons of jobs for PA's in funky rural places with lots of good climbing, that would work with Federal loan-repayment schemes. Our tastes aren't too expensive so it's looking like a good option. Seems like the trade-off is half the pay for half the school. Quite a dilemma, actually. I love school but I'm not all that type-A.
Thanks again & keep the climbing medics perspectives coming!
Rob
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tenesmus
Oct 4, 2005, 4:16 PM
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Ask Steve Hong how he did it.
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boss
Oct 4, 2005, 4:36 PM
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Hi Rob,
I'm in my 4th year of med. school, and have had plenty of time to climb. Third year was a bit rough with rotations, but I still took trips to WV on a regular basis. I can usually get to the gym or the local crag about 3+ times a week. Most people will tell you that your life stops once you enter med. school. This is most definitely not true. You make time to do the things that are important to you. If you have any questions regarding school drop me a PM. I'd be happy to help out.
Boss
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granddreams
Oct 4, 2005, 5:16 PM
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I'm in the same boat, I'm going off to college next year and can't decide weather to go pre-med or not. I am actually more interested in becoming a paramedic then a MD. Any paramedics out there that can give their perspective? also if their are any doctors/paramedics out their willing to answer a high school seniors questions about medicine PM me please Granddreams
Dani
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clymber
Oct 4, 2005, 5:18 PM
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i have 2 friends that are both ER docs and they seem to have the best schedule in the world....they have to work either 13 or 14 shifts a month and not allowed to take off morethen 13 days in a row in a month...they way they arrange it is take off the last 13 days of one month and the first 13 days of the following month and that way they are able to take off a total of 26 days in a row...this year alone he went to switzerland, italy.puerto rico ,alaska and him and I are talking about thailand for a few weeks....so he has a ton of time off and the extra cash that lets him travel....soundls like good job to me
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rockkid55
Oct 4, 2005, 5:27 PM
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"""I am pre-med and I still find time to climb and snowboard, it depends where your priorities lie."""
--Renohandjabs
Obviously not with saving lives and learning to be a good doctor. I'm so glad there's medical malpractice . . .
Seems to me that you should only have one passion in life, if you're gonna excel at it. Don't anyone talk about that "Type-A personality" crap. I'd bet most doctors who climb all the time and make regular trips to the Himilayas aren't going to help cure cancer any time soon.
So do you wanna be a great doctor or a great climber? Pick one.
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midwestishell
Oct 4, 2005, 6:20 PM
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Replying for a friend...
My buddy Mike is a fourth year med student. He has greatly had to shift his attention from the mountains to the crags and has become a sport climber. He will also sometimes boulder when he can't find a partner. So I guess the answer is that, yes, you can be a climber just don't plan on doing any big, elongated trips.
Just one person's perspective.
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nuts_r_us
Oct 4, 2005, 6:27 PM
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In reply to: Seems to me that you should only have one passion in life
:lol: :lol: :lol: Good one. Have a great life! :lol: :lol: :lol:
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logos
Oct 4, 2005, 6:42 PM
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Hi Rob,
I'm in my second year of PA school and Ive managed to get into the gym at least twice a week since the beginning. Getting outside is a little more difficult due to the local crags being a 2-3 hr drive, but I still manage to get a day trip in about 1x/mo. I also don't have a family so its a little easier for me then some of my classmates who "used to" climb. If you have some PA specific questions PM me and Ill send you my phone number. I couldn't be happier with my choice to enter into the PA profession. Climbing time will always wax and wane a bit, but if you really make it a priority you will find the time.
--Micha
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climbingnurse
Oct 4, 2005, 7:44 PM
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In reply to: If not, what "near-doc" profession would be most conducive to continued climbing, e.g. Physician's Assistant, Nurse-practitioner, etc?
If you want to become a "near doc" then please become a PA, not an NP. If you view NPs as junior doctors then you will be very unwelcome in the field and in nursing school especially.
Nursing is a great profession, but not if you view it as something like being a doctor only easier.
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acherry
Oct 4, 2005, 7:56 PM
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In reply to: """I am pre-med and I still find time to climb and snowboard, it depends where your priorities lie.""" --Renohandjabs Obviously not with saving lives and learning to be a good doctor. I'm so glad there's medical malpractice . . . Seems to me that you should only have one passion in life, if you're gonna excel at it. Don't anyone talk about that "Type-A personality" crap. I'd bet most doctors who climb all the time and make regular trips to the Himilayas aren't going to help cure cancer any time soon. So do you wanna be a great doctor or a great climber? Pick one.
That's rediculous!!! I work for a medical doctor who works only about 9 hours a day (doesn't practice because he's almost blind), has cured a disease or two, cooks dinner for his kinds every night, and is in constant training for the Boston Marathon. My point being that you're insane if you think someone who dedicates themself to medicine has no right to have any other passions outside of medicine. What kind of life would that be?
Doctor's are not healing machines, they are people just like you. What would you think if I told you that you should do nothing with you're life except your job. You clearly can't be very good at your job since your wasting time on rc.com.
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