|
trenchdigger
Oct 3, 2005, 7:09 PM
Post #1 of 77
(8524 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Mar 9, 2003
Posts: 1447
|
Just curious to hear how other people approach the mental game of leading trad. I'll post my thoughts once I get a few responses. What do you think about? Do you think about falling or do you try to push it out of your mind? Do you look for placements as you climb or is there some planning involved? Are always focused on making forward progress or do you keep the possibility of retreating back to a rest in mind. Do you think about the piece you just clipped? Do you think about the piece(s) below that? I think there is a lot that goes into having a strong lead head, and I think a lot of that relates to the questions above. In hopes of providing ideas to develop safer, stronger leaders, let's hear some input and ideas on the questions posed above.
|
|
|
|
|
euroford
Oct 3, 2005, 7:34 PM
Post #2 of 77
(8524 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Aug 26, 2002
Posts: 2913
|
i'm usually just focused on the task at hand; routfinding, pro, depumping, getting the best jamb. thats one of the great things about trad, i'm forced to only think about that exact task that the route puts in front of me at that exact moment. on easier terrain my mind might wander a little bit. a song running through my head, what i'm going to eat later, boobies... ya know, normal stuff. oh yeah, and sometimes, especially while aiding when i'm scared shitless i'll be thinking "why the f do i spend my weekends doing this?".
|
|
|
|
|
silkyerm
Oct 3, 2005, 7:56 PM
Post #3 of 77
(8524 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jun 14, 2003
Posts: 53
|
When I am leading, I generally think about many more things than when on TR. Instead of just thinking about my technique, I think about my tools, the runout, my second. I am always considering my runout: "I am 20 feet out, but there is a ledge 15 feet below, better go ahead a put in some pro now even though I'm on pretty easy terrain." Stuff like that. And judging from how much I think about boobies in a given day, my mind probably goes there while I'm leading from time to time, too.
|
|
|
|
|
stuckinmidwest
Oct 3, 2005, 8:17 PM
Post #4 of 77
(8524 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jul 28, 2004
Posts: 88
|
The thing I am always thinking is where is my rest point? If you get to high up above your last piece and you look down and freak out, that's not the best time to look for pro. At every rest or moderatly comfortable position, I like to place a piece because even looking ahead, it can be hard to tell exactly where youre next piece is. I also agree with everyone else on the focusing on the task at hand. Nothing else crosses my mind, only the rock in front of me.
|
|
|
|
|
keinangst
Oct 3, 2005, 8:27 PM
Post #5 of 77
(8524 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Apr 1, 2003
Posts: 1408
|
oh crap oh crap oh crap oh crap ok, that's bomber next sequence...what's the plan?...hmmm...and....go ok ok ok oh crap oh crap oh crap ok, that's bomber -rinse and repeat-
|
|
|
|
|
grk10vq
Oct 3, 2005, 8:33 PM
Post #6 of 77
(8524 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Nov 7, 2004
Posts: 527
|
I'm always thinking: "why do we drive on a parkway and park in a driveway....."
|
|
|
|
|
stryker
Oct 3, 2005, 8:50 PM
Post #7 of 77
(8524 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Sep 30, 2005
Posts: 9
|
"Did I turn off the stove?"
|
|
|
|
|
grk10vq
Oct 3, 2005, 9:02 PM
Post #8 of 77
(8524 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Nov 7, 2004
Posts: 527
|
In reply to: "Did I turn off the stove?" that was original.
|
|
|
|
|
grk10vq
Oct 3, 2005, 9:04 PM
Post #9 of 77
(8524 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Nov 7, 2004
Posts: 527
|
In reply to: "Did I turn off the stove?" following my post that was original.
|
|
|
|
|
veganboyjosh
Oct 3, 2005, 9:27 PM
Post #10 of 77
(8524 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Dec 22, 2003
Posts: 1421
|
In reply to: What do you think about? where my hand goes. where my foot goes. where my other hand goes. where my other foot goes. sometimes in different order... keinangst also hit the nail on the head.
In reply to: you think about falling or do you try to push it out of your mind? i don't think about it, but i don't push it out either. i'm aware it's a possibility, and to worry about it and fret about it and focus on falling at a time when i'm better off focusing on good footwork and gear placement would be kinda silly and self fulfilling.
In reply to: Do you look for placements as you climb or is there some planning involved? a little of both. be aware of where placements are, so that when you get to them, you'll have (hopefully) rationed your energy/pumpiness so that you can place a piece solidly with confidence. [quote[Are always focused on making forward progress or do you keep the possibility of retreating back to a rest in mind. forward progress, man. i'd say half the game is knowing what you're able to get thru, and sticking to that. if i'mma be climbing something above my ability, i'll stick to top roping it, so that a retreat doesn't necessarily mean a defeat.
In reply to: Do you think about the piece you just clipped? Do you think about the piece(s) below that? hopefully i've been focusing on placing the gear properly and solidly, and once it's placed and i climb past it, i don't have to think about it. when it walks out and slides down to the previous piece, then i start thinking about it and falling and all that other stuff. i hope that helps. josh.
|
|
|
|
|
trenchdigger
Oct 3, 2005, 9:39 PM
Post #11 of 77
(8524 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Mar 9, 2003
Posts: 1447
|
Do you think about falling or do you try to push it out of your mind? I always think about a fall and what the consequences would be. Ignoring this may help you climb harder by eliminating a possible fear, but puts you in a position where you're not paying attention to the consequences of a fall at every moment. I much prefer to know when I can and cannot fall safely and climb accordingly. I guess the associated question is: Can you relax and focus with the knowledge of the consequences of a fall in your mind? I find that I can. Do you look for placements as you climb or is there some planning involved? Whenever possible, I try to find my next stance/placement before I move from a stance at a piece I have just placed. In doing that, I think about how far the next stance/placement is, how difficult the climbing is, and what the fall will be like if I blow it getting to that next placement. I frequently climb with only passive gear which limits my placement options and forces me to plan ahead much more, find rests, and make decisions on when to place and when to wait and hope another placement presents itself when I want it. Are always focused on making forward progress or do you keep the possibility of retreating back to a rest in mind? I always keep the thought of downclimbing in my mind. I downclimb frequently when onsighting a route, and I think it is an essential skill to be a strong, consistent onsight climber. Learn to downclimb... I can't emphasize that enough. Do you think about the piece you just clipped? Do you think about the piece(s) below that? I always think about the nearest piece below me, as it is the primary factor in evaluating the danger of a fall. Pieces below that play into the direction of pull on my last piece when I place my next piece, so I will consider those in such a situation. Rarely do I find myself thinking about the consequences of a fall in which my last piece failed unless that last piece is suspect. Perhaps I should try to do this more rather than relying on my last piece to catch me when I expect it to.
|
|
|
|
|
renohandjams
Oct 3, 2005, 9:57 PM
Post #12 of 77
(8524 views)
Shortcut
Registered: May 24, 2005
Posts: 616
|
In reply to: The thing I am always thinking is where is my rest point? Yeah. Once in Utah I got up pretty high above my last piece and thought, oh, I'm sure there will be plenty of great spots in that crack 15 feet up from me, but once I got up there I saw that they were all crap, and the most I could work would be 2 cam lobs into any point on the crack. I look for rest points, or for good placements to plug a cam to rest on.
|
|
|
|
|
mcfoley
Oct 3, 2005, 10:02 PM
Post #13 of 77
(8524 views)
Shortcut
Registered: May 15, 2002
Posts: 644
|
This is what goes on in my head...over and over again... Flies are buzzing round my head Vultures circling the dead Picking up every last crumb The big fish eat the little ones The big fish eat the little ones Not my problem, give me some You can try the best you can If you try the best you can The best you can is good enough If you try the best you can If you try the best you can The best you can is good enough This one's optimistic This one went to market This one just came out of the swamp This one dropped a payload Fodder for the animals Living on animal farm If you try the best you can If you try the best you can The best you can is good enough If you try the best you can If you try the best you can The best you can is good enough I'd really like to help you, man I'd really like to help you, man Nervous messed up marionettes Floating around on a prison ship If you try the best you can If you try the best you can The best you can is good enough If you can try the best you can If you try the best you can Dinosaurs roaming the Earth Dinosaurs roaming the Earth Dinosaurs roaming the Earth
|
|
|
|
|
climbingaggie03
Oct 3, 2005, 10:15 PM
Post #14 of 77
(8524 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Mar 18, 2004
Posts: 1173
|
Falling is always in the back of my head, but generally I try to relax, breathe, not over grip, and look for rests, Then there's always placing pro, thinking about my second, worrying about rope drag and that cute chick at the trail head.
|
|
|
|
|
keinangst
Oct 3, 2005, 10:15 PM
Post #15 of 77
(8524 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Apr 1, 2003
Posts: 1408
|
The irony of trad, for someone coming from toprope or bouldering, is that the higher you get, the BETTER and SAFER you feel. So to overcome the irrational fear of heights and embrace the height as allowing more room for error is definitely part of the head game. I like to picture every sequence between pieces as an easy boulder problem. Pretend that piece is your spotter or your pad, then just get to it. Once you get another piece in, just repeat that exercise until you're done. The second biggest issue to overcome, IMO, is to realize that sewing up a route will often use up your gear AND pump you out quicker. Sometimes running it out IS the safest option.
|
|
|
|
|
dirtineye
Oct 3, 2005, 10:39 PM
Post #16 of 77
(8524 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Mar 29, 2003
Posts: 5590
|
In reply to: The second biggest issue to overcome, IMO, is to realize that sewing up a route will often use up your gear AND pump you out quicker. Sometimes running it out IS the safest option. This is bullsh!t. IF good gear is there for the taking, and you choose to pass it by, then you are confusing style and safety. If you don't know how to find rests, learn. If you are not up to protecting a route adequately, then do an easier route. Never pass up a bomber placement, you might not get another. A lot of people get hurt running it out for whatever reason. Those who get in good gear and hang may not get a clean ascent, but they live to climb another day. IF you climb enough, you will get your share of runouts. Don't create runouts where they don't exist.
|
|
|
|
|
hibby11
Oct 3, 2005, 10:41 PM
Post #17 of 77
(8524 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jul 8, 2004
Posts: 262
|
Dont Fall
|
|
|
|
|
paganmonkeyboy
Oct 3, 2005, 10:44 PM
Post #18 of 77
(8524 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Apr 30, 2003
Posts: 663
|
"this is soooo fun..." alternating with "don't fall don't fall don't fall" seriously - you need to be concious of many things when leading - rope drag, last pro, next pro, loose rocks, ledge fall potential, wandering belayer scamming chicks and not watching you, route direction, weather, footwork, what's left on the rack, where is the lighter...the list goes on and on, but you get used to it....
|
|
|
|
|
gamehendge
Oct 3, 2005, 10:56 PM
Post #19 of 77
(8524 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jun 2, 2004
Posts: 398
|
s u p e r c a l a f r a g e l i s t i c e x p i a l a d o t i o u s.
|
|
|
|
|
letolives
Oct 3, 2005, 11:34 PM
Post #20 of 77
(8524 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Mar 29, 2004
Posts: 95
|
What goes on in my head while leading is . . . IF there is ever a post about whats going on in my head while lead climbing I definitely need something to post on rockclimbing.com.
|
|
|
|
|
cracklover
Oct 4, 2005, 12:03 AM
Post #21 of 77
(8524 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Nov 14, 2002
Posts: 10162
|
That crystal looks good. Oh shit, my foot is buttering off. Okay, that side-crimp stabilizes me for a second. That looks like a good hold up there. Maybe I can put my other foot here. Yeah, ok. Now I need to find a place to bring up that bad foot. Shit, there's nothing. Where the fuck are the footholds? Goddamn it this sucks. How good *was* that last nut anyway? Wait, that crystal over there looks like it might hold me if I put my weight just like this. No, okay, maybe not, back down again. Damn damn damn... How 'bout this one. Yup, that works. Okay, got the good hold now, and I think I can get a good cam in that crack just a couple feet over there... Okay, at the cam placement - looks like yellow tcu. Plug it in. Fiddle. The left-side lobes look a little under-cammed, maybe a little more to the right. Yeah, that looks solid. Look down at last piece. Look up to determine where I'm going. Okay, don't need to extend sling, but do need a trippled sling. Right, now lean out from the rock as much as I can - where's the next pro? Damn I'm pumped, maybe I can hook this hold with my thumb and push sideways to rest my fingers for a moment. Kind of like that. Routes that are hard for me are mentally exhausting as much as physically. GO
|
|
|
|
|
baja_java
Oct 4, 2005, 12:03 AM
Post #22 of 77
(8524 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Oct 8, 2003
Posts: 680
|
i actually don't do that much thinking once i start climbing. more so recognition and execution, that should feel second nature at some point. if i think about anything, it'd be about those in this world who are less fortunate than me, those living in squalor, those living in fear. my humanity depresses the hell out of my partners sometimes
|
|
|
|
|
chalkfree
Oct 4, 2005, 12:04 AM
Post #23 of 77
(8524 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Dec 27, 2004
Posts: 512
|
Dirtineye has it sorda right, and so does the guy that wants to run it out. If you climb a 5.8 finger crack there's going to be so much oppertunity to place gear that you'll use up all day placing it and be 80 ft off the deck when you run out of gear. Sometimes when you get 40ft up it's time to put on the bigboy panties and run it out a bit so as not to waste time placing gear that's going to do nothing but reduce an already safe fall. Do the math, see if you'll be close to the deck, and look above you. If it's sketchy place pro, if it's the same damn crack for the next 100ft of the pitch run it out a bit. Don't get yourself killed, but climb the rock don't obsess over sewing the route up. 'Sides it'll just take the second longer and leave you hanging.
|
|
|
|
|
markc
Oct 4, 2005, 12:28 AM
Post #24 of 77
(8524 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jan 21, 2003
Posts: 2481
|
In reply to: Do you think about falling or do you try to push it out of your mind? I always think about a fall and what the consequences would be. Ignoring this may help you climb harder by eliminating a possible fear, but puts you in a position where you're not paying attention to the consequences of a fall at every moment. I much prefer to know when I can and cannot fall safely and climb accordingly. I guess the associated question is: Can you relax and focus with the knowledge of the consequences of a fall in your mind? I find that I can. Do you look for placements as you climb or is there some planning involved? Whenever possible, I try to find my next stance/placement before I move from a stance at a piece I have just placed. In doing that, I think about how far the next stance/placement is, how difficult the climbing is, and what the fall will be like if I blow it getting to that next placement. I frequently climb with only passive gear which limits my placement options and forces me to plan ahead much more, find rests, and make decisions on when to place and when to wait and hope another placement presents itself when I want it. Are always focused on making forward progress or do you keep the possibility of retreating back to a rest in mind? I always keep the thought of downclimbing in my mind. I downclimb frequently when onsighting a route, and I think it is an essential skill to be a strong, consistent onsight climber. Learn to downclimb... I can't emphasize that enough. Do you think about the piece you just clipped? Do you think about the piece(s) below that? I always think about the nearest piece below me, as it is the primary factor in evaluating the danger of a fall. Pieces below that play into the direction of pull on my last piece when I place my next piece, so I will consider those in such a situation. Rarely do I find myself thinking about the consequences of a fall in which my last piece failed unless that last piece is suspect. Perhaps I should try to do this more rather than relying on my last piece to catch me when I expect it to. You posted nearly everything I was thinking as I read the thread. I don't think some of these questions are quite as either/or as you make them sound initially. I look for pro in the moment and try to have a plan for good rests/likely protection points. I try to focus on upward progress while bearing in mind what can be reversed easily and what can't. It's important to know when I can likely step back and regroup or if I have to solidly commit to the next sequence 100%. One of the things I enjoy about trad climbing is the mental aspect. It's an area where I still have some difficulty, but that part of the challenge has its appeal.
|
|
|
|
|
keinangst
Oct 4, 2005, 12:50 AM
Post #25 of 77
(8524 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Apr 1, 2003
Posts: 1408
|
Dirtineye, Take it easy--I said "often" in my post. I don't recommend unnecessary runouts just for the fun of it. I was just explaining that you have to learn the tradeoffs between overprotection with poor rests (and pumping out) vs. running a little further--safely--to conserve energy. My point in addressing that is that these things don't even occur to topropers, or even sport climbers (unless we're talking about skipping bolts maybe). I acknowledge what you're saying, but I don't think that anybody reading the thread would think I was trying to encourage unnecessary runouts :P
|
|
|
|
|
wonderwoman
Oct 4, 2005, 1:26 AM
Post #26 of 77
(7566 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Dec 14, 2002
Posts: 4275
|
That's funny! Yesterday after doing a lead that challenges me mentally (I'm slowly getting into 5.7 trad now), I thought to myself that if I had a loudspeaker in my head that people would think I was crazy! My crazy voice came out like never before on a climb that was well within my ability. I just want to say that I did a climb that was on my tick list and I had followed it before. At the crux, my rational voice: 'Okay, this isn't really an overhang... If I step to the right and get my feet real high I can just step over onto the ledge.' Crazy voice: 'Or I could just downclimb... ' Rational voice: 'NOOO NOOO DON'T DOWNCLIMB, ARE YOU STUPID?' Then I obeyed my rational voice and moved on. At the point that I wasn't sure where the route went so my crazy voice said: 'YOU'RE LOST. NOW YOU'RE SCREWED. HOW THE HELL ARE YOU GOING TO GET OUT OF THIS ONE NOW? NICE GOING, GENIUS!'. Then my rational voice said your gear is good, there are foot holds galore and you could not fall off this route if you tried. ' Suddenly I see the holds and I'm off again. Now here is where I really started to laugh at myself. I'm about 5 feet from the top and its a bulge where it's not clear whether I should go right or left and I can't see the bolts that I know are just over the bulge. Crazy voice: 'HELP HELP HELP! THE BOLTS ARE GONE YOU'RE GOING TO FALL YOU DON'T KNOW WHERE TO GO YOU'RE SCREWED YOU'RE SOOOO SCREWED!' At this point I found a nice solid nut placement and moved on right to the top. When I got down my belayer said 'Nice lead. You looked really smooth and confident!' :lol:
|
|
|
|
|
boardline22
Oct 4, 2005, 1:40 AM
Post #27 of 77
(7566 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Feb 18, 2005
Posts: 652
|
life is mellow
|
|
|
|
|
equal_1
Oct 4, 2005, 1:57 AM
Post #28 of 77
(7566 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jul 29, 2005
Posts: 71
|
the first thing that goes threw my mind is the song i will be climb9ng to on this route.... i usualy try and think of a song to have going threw my head while i climb ....... next is this is why i spent all that money i better start using this stuff.......and the third right as i get above the last piece i placed .."Theres that feeling i was looking for" ...... as i start to let the fear ..panic...and excitment help me threw to the next piece.....oh and back to my song of course..... but thats just me im sure
|
|
|
|
|
lishe
Oct 4, 2005, 1:57 AM
Post #29 of 77
(7566 views)
Shortcut
Registered: May 4, 2004
Posts: 28
|
I am a noob, but here is my trad lead algorithm: Check knots, belay; Issue commands; Find first placement off belay to avoid factor 2 fall; Go; while(!dead() && !done()) { Climb(); Evaluate(); Breath(); } boolean done() { if (at belay ledge) return true; if (at top) return true; return false; } boolean dead() { if( uncounscious || !breathing) return true; return false; } Climb() { Find best holds. Move each limb accordingly. } EvaluateSituation() { if(oh shit?) print "Falling!"; else if(over my head?) print "Oh Shit!, off route"; downclimb; else if(time to place gear? && goodplacements exist?) { place gear; } else { findnextrestspot(); } } Breath{ take breath; hum a tune if scared; } findnextrestspot() { Look for good holds; time to place gear should be at that spot; }
|
|
|
|
|
ajkclay
Oct 4, 2005, 2:20 AM
Post #30 of 77
(7566 views)
Shortcut
Registered: May 9, 2002
Posts: 1567
|
The next move, that's it. I find that when a placement opportunity arises I notice it and use it without having to be thinking about when to place. Also once I have placed I forget about it, no point thinking about something that has been done, it just wastes available processing resources on something that can't be changed. Basically I think about the current task at hand. If placing, I think about that. If climbing I think about that. If pumped I think about resting. If stuck, I route find or look for alternatves.
|
|
|
|
|
euroford
Oct 4, 2005, 12:37 PM
Post #31 of 77
(7566 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Aug 26, 2002
Posts: 2913
|
so i'm the only one that thinks of food and boobies??
|
|
|
|
|
cfnubbler
Oct 4, 2005, 1:25 PM
Post #32 of 77
(7566 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Oct 31, 2003
Posts: 628
|
Recently, it's been some of my daughter's Rafi music. Driving me f$cking nuts, actually. -Nubbler
|
|
|
|
|
blueeyedclimber
Oct 4, 2005, 1:42 PM
Post #33 of 77
(7566 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Nov 19, 2002
Posts: 4602
|
In reply to: so i'm the only one that thinks of food and boobies?? You think of food? That's weird! I find that the thought of boobies gets me through just about everything.
|
|
|
|
|
king_rat
Oct 4, 2005, 2:57 PM
Post #34 of 77
(7566 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jul 20, 2005
Posts: 365
|
In reply to: In reply to: The second biggest issue to overcome, IMO, is to realize that sewing up a route will often use up your gear AND pump you out quicker. Sometimes running it out IS the safest option. This is bullsh!t. IF good gear is there for the taking, and you choose to pass it by, then you are confusing style and safety. If you don't know how to find rests, learn. If you are not up to protecting a route adequately, then do an easier route. Never pass up a bomber placement, you might not get another. A lot of people get hurt running it out for whatever reason. Those who get in good gear and hang may not get a clean ascent, but they live to climb another day. IF you climb enough, you will get your share of runouts. Don't create runouts where they don't exist. You’re talking out of your arse. But then again people who say “you must never do…..” generally do. On a 20m crack do you place a peace of gear every foot? By your logic you should be. The point is that you have to achieve a balance between safety and efficiency. On a long multi pitch route do you really have the time to lace the route with gear?
|
|
|
|
|
onbelay_osu
Oct 4, 2005, 5:00 PM
Post #35 of 77
(7566 views)
Shortcut
Registered: May 5, 2002
Posts: 1087
|
Usually I try not to think about the fact that i am on the sharp in...I find that putting the idea that i am run out of my head helps me a lot.... most of the time, i get the dumbest 80's commercials stuck in my head in fact most recently I have had the dumb dumbs theme song stuck in my head. CHERRY AND GRAPE AND WATERMELLON TOO... CREAM SODA, NOW THAT'S A LOLLIPOP FOR YOU...
|
|
|
|
|
rockkid55
Oct 4, 2005, 5:32 PM
Post #36 of 77
(7566 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Sep 16, 2005
Posts: 40
|
Yes, I also think : "Why the hell am I climbing instead of drinking beer and watching baseball? God! I'm never climbing again!" But then I always do. And it's true about "the higher you get, the safer you get." At least with leading. I'd much rather fall on my tenth placement than my second. Cuz, see, then I'd probably just sprain an ankle on a ledge instead of break every bone in my body on the ground.
|
|
|
|
|
ucfrockclimber
Oct 4, 2005, 6:28 PM
Post #37 of 77
(7566 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Apr 25, 2005
Posts: 24
|
No offense but Lishe you are a dork/nerd. However sadly I understood everything you said :-P.
|
|
|
|
|
wings
Oct 4, 2005, 6:53 PM
Post #38 of 77
(7566 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jun 2, 2004
Posts: 283
|
In reply to: so i'm the only one that thinks of food and boobies?? 5 points of contact is better than 4. - Seyil
|
|
|
|
|
imnotclever
Oct 4, 2005, 7:14 PM
Post #39 of 77
(7566 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Sep 8, 2003
Posts: 10000
|
My partner is a huge Bob Dylan fan. So recently when we were climbing It Ain't Me Babe was going through my mind. But I reall don't know the words so it was only a few lines over and over and in no particular order, they were: I'm not the one you want, babe, I'm not the one you need. Someone to open each and every door, But it ain't me, babe, No, no, no, it ain't me, babe, It ain't me you're lookin' for, babe I'm not the one you want, babe, I will only let you down. Someone who will die for you an' more, But it ain't me, babe, No, no, no, it ain't me, babe, It ain't me you're lookin' for, babe You say you're looking for someone Who'll pick you up each time you fall
|
|
|
|
|
acacongua
Oct 4, 2005, 8:02 PM
Post #40 of 77
(7566 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Feb 14, 2003
Posts: 657
|
I think about wild monkey sex. That's why I breathe heavily sometimes.
|
|
|
|
|
johnhemlock
Oct 4, 2005, 8:54 PM
Post #41 of 77
(7566 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Apr 10, 2004
Posts: 311
|
Ween lyrics
|
|
|
|
|
deepseaclimber666
Oct 4, 2005, 9:27 PM
Post #42 of 77
(7566 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Sep 29, 2005
Posts: 4
|
"Breath... oh s**t... breath... place a piece... slipping s**t... breath..." Lol all the normal crap, wheres my last piece, whats the next move, ect ect. Mostly my mind is blank with intermittent moments of mind blowing terror. Gotta love trad climbing!
|
|
|
|
|
gamehendge
Oct 4, 2005, 10:25 PM
Post #43 of 77
(7566 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jun 2, 2004
Posts: 398
|
nice.
|
|
|
|
|
lishe
Oct 5, 2005, 2:14 AM
Post #44 of 77
(7566 views)
Shortcut
Registered: May 4, 2004
Posts: 28
|
In reply to: No offense but Lishe you are a dork/nerd. However sadly I understood everything you said :-P. :lol: there needs to be a nerd icon on here
|
|
|
|
|
vegastradguy
Oct 5, 2005, 2:27 AM
Post #45 of 77
(7566 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Aug 28, 2002
Posts: 5919
|
easy terrain: I tend to focus mostly on the movement and the day. i make sure to put pro in before and after moves that cause concern as well as pro to keep me from getting hurt should a fall occur. difficult terrain: I focus on getting pro in to prevent a fall. I focus on resting when possible. I focus on the sequence of movement required to get to the next rest spot/pro spot. and sometimes i think about food and boobies. :lol:
|
|
|
|
|
boardline22
Oct 5, 2005, 2:42 AM
Post #46 of 77
(7566 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Feb 18, 2005
Posts: 652
|
I think about...... wait for it..... wait...... You MOM!!!! :lol:
|
|
|
|
|
tradrenn
Oct 5, 2005, 2:44 AM
Post #47 of 77
(7566 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jan 16, 2005
Posts: 2990
|
It's all good, you can do it man, you 've been there before, you gonna be fine. Sometimes there is a little Pink Floyd in my head: "All you touch All you see All your climb would ever be"
|
|
|
|
|
king_rat
Oct 5, 2005, 12:17 PM
Post #48 of 77
(7566 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jul 20, 2005
Posts: 365
|
when im climbing well, nothing. I go in to automatic pilot where all the thoughts of where my next gear placemtent is going to be go to the back of my head. Whn im climbing badly, it runs somthing like this ok hands good, feet ok, got to move.....don't want to leave safty... try higher hold..its okay ...move ...sh1t its not okay...coming off ...yess...no ...go for next hold... got it ....geargeargear, number 4..no number 5...tugtug its good ...clip...got to move on ...but done want to leave safty...move ....fcuk foots sliding...its okay move again ...how good was that nut ... get another in etc etc .
|
|
|
|
|
hyhuu
Oct 5, 2005, 12:19 PM
Post #49 of 77
(7566 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jul 25, 2001
Posts: 492
|
"Where is Mommy? I want my Mommy" or "Where the hell is the foothold? "
|
|
|
|
|
dirtineye
Oct 6, 2005, 10:00 AM
Post #50 of 77
(7566 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Mar 29, 2003
Posts: 5590
|
In reply to: In reply to: In reply to: The second biggest issue to overcome, IMO, is to realize that sewing up a route will often use up your gear AND pump you out quicker. Sometimes running it out IS the safest option. This is bullsh!t. IF good gear is there for the taking, and you choose to pass it by, then you are confusing style and safety. If you don't know how to find rests, learn. If you are not up to protecting a route adequately, then do an easier route. Never pass up a bomber placement, you might not get another. A lot of people get hurt running it out for whatever reason. Those who get in good gear and hang may not get a clean ascent, but they live to climb another day. IF you climb enough, you will get your share of runouts. Don't create runouts where they don't exist. You?re talking out of your arse. But then again people who say ?you must never do?..? generally do. On a 20m crack do you place a peace of gear every foot? By your logic you should be. The point is that you have to achieve a balance between safety and efficiency. On a long multi pitch route do you really have the time to lace the route with gear? Rat, you've already established yourself as a true idiot in many other posts, you don't have to keep trying so hard. Work on your reading comprehsnsion. Moron.
|
|
|
|
|
dirtineye
Oct 6, 2005, 10:06 AM
Post #51 of 77
(7623 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Mar 29, 2003
Posts: 5590
|
In reply to: Dirtineye, Take it easy--I said "often" in my post. I don't recommend unnecessary runouts just for the fun of it. I was just explaining that you have to learn the tradeoffs between overprotection with poor rests (and pumping out) vs. running a little further--safely--to conserve energy. My point in addressing that is that these things don't even occur to topropers, or even sport climbers (unless we're talking about skipping bolts maybe). I acknowledge what you're saying, but I don't think that anybody reading the thread would think I was trying to encourage unnecessary runouts :P Remember that you have hit the ground and why. Remember who pointed out to you how to avoid such things. Remember just who coined the phrase, "Never pass up a bomber placement, you might not get another.". And know this: You won't find Corbett, Ilgner or Stegg running out anythign they don't have to. I disagree that people will understand what you say you mean. People run stuff out for dumb reasons all the time, and get hurt doing it. I've helped carry one such fellow out with a broken ankle.
|
|
|
|
|
drunkenmonkey
Oct 6, 2005, 10:50 AM
Post #52 of 77
(7623 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Mar 1, 2002
Posts: 93
|
Interesting question; My normal situation is split into two distinctly different parts. If I'm cruising then I generally look at the rock, enjoy its form and relish the physical movement getting really excited and shouting to my partner how great the route is. Thats the first part, the second goes a little like this. When I get to a hard section I know is going to push me I would usually go through a mental dialog of rationalizing the fear and then push on if it feels right. However recently I've found something really disturbing happening. It's as if i have schizophrenia. Instead of the normal internal dialog I have a second person in my head who takes over physically before I've concluded the usual dialog. Imagine driving a car and then suddenly someone takes control of your body and drives in a way that starts to freak you out. Very weird. Perhaps I should stop climbing!
|
|
|
|
|
stabla
Oct 7, 2005, 5:13 PM
Post #53 of 77
(7623 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Apr 29, 2005
Posts: 139
|
i think about just climbing in general, tend not to pay attention to run-outs just keep climbing until i know something is solid. i generally don't screw with less than marginal placements, its a waste of time and it disconnects me, i am to worried about protection and not worried enough about the upcoming climbing moves, just my style of leading cheers
|
|
|
|
|
trenchdigger
Oct 7, 2005, 5:22 PM
Post #54 of 77
(7623 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Mar 9, 2003
Posts: 1447
|
In reply to: It's all good, you can do it man, you 've been there before, you gonna be fine. Sometimes there is a little Pink Floyd in my head: "All you touch All you see All your climb would ever be" Intersting... I always thought "Fearless" off of Meddle was a more appropriate tune to get stuck in your head... "You say the hill's too steep to climb Climb it. You say you'd like to see me try Climbing. You pick the place and I'll choose the time And I'll climb That hill in my own way. Just wait a while for the right day. And as I rise above the tree lines and the clouds I look down, hearing the sound of the things you've said today. "
|
|
|
|
|
kingofthefourpointnines
Oct 7, 2005, 6:02 PM
Post #55 of 77
(7623 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Sep 21, 2005
Posts: 5
|
It might be of help to read Arno Ilgner's book "Rock Warrior's Way". He goes into one of the most detailed and best ways to handle lead climbing and to create growth in your climbing experience. This book may be the best climbing tool you ever aquire. keep smiling, Mike
|
|
|
|
|
t-dog
Deleted
Oct 14, 2005, 3:17 AM
Post #57 of 77
(7623 views)
Shortcut
Registered:
Posts:
|
In reply to: I am a noob, but here is my trad lead algorithm: Check knots, belay; Issue commands; Find first placement off belay to avoid factor 2 fall; Go; while(!dead() && !done()) { Climb(); Evaluate(); Breath(); } boolean done() { if (at belay ledge) return true; if (at top) return true; return false; } boolean dead() { if( uncounscious || !breathing) return true; return false; } Climb() { Find best holds. Move each limb accordingly. } EvaluateSituation() { if(oh s---?) print "Falling!"; else if(over my head?) print "Oh s---!, off route"; downclimb; else if(time to place gear? && goodplacements exist?) { place gear; } else { findnextrestspot(); } } Breath{ take breath; hum a tune if scared; } findnextrestspot() { Look for good holds; time to place gear should be at that spot; } Heheheh, that totally made sense to me!!! I know, I'm a software dork, oh well...
|
|
|
|
|
zozo
Oct 14, 2005, 3:20 AM
Post #58 of 77
(7623 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Feb 3, 2004
Posts: 3431
|
"Dum de dum de dum, Dum dum de dum de de dum de dum de dum"
|
|
|
|
|
onsight_endorphines
Oct 14, 2005, 4:04 AM
Post #59 of 77
(7623 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Dec 14, 2004
Posts: 226
|
Cold stone, warm sun, feel the wind blowin. Wow, check out the sandbars in the river. Man this is isolated, I'm being healed by the second, How awesome it is to be on top of the world...
|
|
|
|
|
kalcario
Oct 14, 2005, 4:20 AM
Post #60 of 77
(7623 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Sep 25, 2002
Posts: 1601
|
what am I thinking about when leading trad? don't fall because I really don't trust my date...er, belayer there must be a less boring way to get laid than this damn she's cute should I put in a piece here? nah, save it for the anchor hiking up to the base was harder and more interesting than this...oh well off belay!
|
|
|
|
|
jt512
Oct 17, 2005, 1:10 AM
Post #61 of 77
(7623 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Apr 12, 2001
Posts: 21904
|
In reply to: what am I thinking about when leading trad? there must be a less boring way to get laid than this Joe, I'm surprised you haven't given this subject more thought. As I'm sure you know, the long-term goal is to educate your date/partner on the superiority of sport climbing over trad. However, there is often a transition period (while they come to understand that climbing is about movement, not standing around with some body part stuffed into a crack) that we must manage. Here are some tactics to help navigate through this difficult period. 1. Steer trad climbing days toward single-pitch areas. The logic behind this is two-fold: one, the only thing more boring than one pitch of uninteresting climbing is pitch after pitch of it; and, two, at single-pitch areas you spend more time hiking between climbs, which must translate to less time "climbing." 2. Avoid all-trad trips in favor of mixed sport/trad trips. You need rest days anyways, and although it would be less boring to spend your rest day moving furniture, you can use your rest day to trad. 3. Actually, an advanced version of (2) that I've been working lately: climb in a party of three or more, and on the trad day hike to the route with the group, but instead of climbing, simply sleep, read, or drink beer, while the others climb. This results in more trad climbing for them, and less for you, and everyone is better off. HTH -Jay
|
|
|
|
|
sekcot
Oct 17, 2005, 1:19 AM
Post #62 of 77
(7623 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Dec 1, 2003
Posts: 63
|
While I'm leading I am most often wondering what pointers I can take to better my table-tennis game.
|
|
|
|
|
mdude
Oct 17, 2005, 1:27 AM
Post #63 of 77
(7623 views)
Shortcut
Registered: May 9, 2003
Posts: 198
|
WOW..... is MoM upside down. MD
|
|
|
|
|
mdude
Oct 17, 2005, 1:28 AM
Post #64 of 77
(7623 views)
Shortcut
Registered: May 9, 2003
Posts: 198
|
AND P____!
|
|
|
|
|
ihuang
Oct 17, 2005, 3:08 AM
Post #65 of 77
(7623 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Dec 6, 2002
Posts: 194
|
Death, agony and dying -- a truly religious experience.
|
|
|
|
|
rckymntneer
Oct 17, 2005, 3:13 AM
Post #66 of 77
(7623 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Nov 10, 2004
Posts: 67
|
In reply to: In reply to: The second biggest issue to overcome, IMO, is to realize that sewing up a route will often use up your gear AND pump you out quicker. Sometimes running it out IS the safest option. This is bullsh!t. IF good gear is there for the taking, and you choose to pass it by, then you are confusing style and safety. I agree wholeheartedly. Sending a route is optional. Living to climb another is mandatory.
|
|
|
|
|
phillipmikerevis
Oct 17, 2005, 3:14 AM
Post #67 of 77
(7623 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Oct 11, 2004
Posts: 23
|
DEEP DISH
|
|
|
|
|
slcliffdiver
Oct 17, 2005, 3:25 AM
Post #68 of 77
(7623 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Mar 18, 2002
Posts: 489
|
Purple haze all in my brain Lately things just don’t seem the same Actin’ funny, but I don’t know why ’scuse me while I kiss the sky Purple haze all around Don’t know if I’m comin’ up or down Am I happy or in misery? What ever it is, that girl put a spell on me Help me Help me I'm pretty sure I go through close to the same "thought process" as I did when I first started; pro spacing, how long a sling to put where ect. but the though process isn't verabalized in my head very often anymore. It's generally either a song or pretty quite in my head unless there's a section that's especially vexing in one way or another. On easy sections I tend to sing out loud sometimes as it gets harder both my mouth and my brain tend to get quiter except for the occasional spontanious curse word. The songs that tend to show up in my head while climbing are generally alot better than the ones that come to me while hiking for some reason. The hiking ones tend to be somewhat annoying (I want to be your drill instuctor shows up a lot trudging up long hills) and I can't get rid of them the climbing ones are generally much cooler. I think my regular climbing partners tend to be people who can put up with my poor singing and playful antics at belays.
|
|
|
|
|
scottman13
Oct 17, 2005, 3:34 AM
Post #69 of 77
(7623 views)
Shortcut
Registered: May 21, 2004
Posts: 38
|
I have just started to lead, so i am constantly scared s###less when im up there. it's ok falling when you are ready for it, but i am so freaked out about losing my grip and falling accidentily. It is completely detromental to my climbing too, because when you are scared, you stop thinking about technique and start climbing on bent arms, pinching too hard and not breathing properly. all of these factors get you pumped a whole lot faster and basically just tire you out. Luckilly, as my friends have told me, after a while, you lose your fear and accually start to develop a sick love of lead falls. I cant wait!
|
|
|
|
|
hosebeats
Oct 17, 2005, 4:10 AM
Post #70 of 77
(7623 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Dec 4, 2003
Posts: 83
|
While leading trad my mind switches on and off. If I'm climbing my body is just moving and breathing. When it's time to place gear my mind clicks back on and assesses where and what to put. If I'm really sketched out I sometimes can't get my mind to shut up. When leading sport I try to get to that place where my mind and body work in unison. No outright conscience thought cluttering my mind and distracting me. Just an evaluation of holds/limbs/balance/etc that get my hands and feet moving. When I fall I evaluate much more consciously. But then again I lead easy trad and harder (for me anyway) sport.
|
|
|
|
|
climbingaggie03
Oct 17, 2005, 4:52 AM
Post #71 of 77
(7623 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Mar 18, 2004
Posts: 1173
|
I usually think about all the things I'm doing and just enjoy the moment, but occasionally (usually during a hard move with bad fall potential) I find myself thinking SH*T! why am I up here, again!?!?!
|
|
|
|
|
rock_junkie
Oct 17, 2005, 5:14 AM
Post #72 of 77
(7623 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Oct 6, 2004
Posts: 172
|
Thought... Dam my package looks huge in this harness I hope there's some tourists Maybe they'll have a camera to document my junk Aloud... Clipping! Thought... Wow, I almost got three feet above that last bolt Oh Sweet, some tourists! Grunt so you'll get their attention highstep so they can see your package Awesome, I think they saw it
|
|
|
|
|
kuan
Oct 17, 2005, 5:36 AM
Post #73 of 77
(7623 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Oct 10, 2005
Posts: 40
|
1. Okay, I know my knot is safe because I checked it right before I got on this route. 2. I know my belayer is competent and attentive and his gear is reliable. 3. Because my belayer is competent, I know that my fall will be safe. 4. Falling isn't that bad. Usually. 5. If I don't go for this, I'll never get stronger. 6. I will eventually find a place to rest if I just keep moving. 7. Why are my hands so damp? 8. Making some sort of move is better than hanging here with my strength rapidly draining out of my arms, fingers, back, etc... 9. Okay, if I commit to this move instead of going half-assed, it will increase my chances of sticking to it. 10. I might as well figure out this section for a later burn. Even if I forget my own beta, muscle memory has got to count for something. 11. If I go for it and don't make it, I can always hang out and bitch/make excuses!
|
|
|
|
|
skinner
Oct 17, 2005, 6:49 AM
Post #74 of 77
(7623 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Nov 1, 2004
Posts: 1747
|
I always am aware of and understand the Objective, and Subjective dangers before I even tie in. I constantly confirm that I am physically and/or mentally capable of handling what I am getting myself into, or I bail. The rock will be there another day. If I allow myself to cross that fine line of what I am capable of pulling off mentally or physically (that day).. I have lost control, and that's how people die, and will continue to die. What do I think about? I am constantly accessing and managing the risk. Does that mean that I don't take risks? No, it just means that the risks I take ensure a high probability of survival.
|
|
|
|
|
tradman
Oct 19, 2005, 10:30 AM
Post #75 of 77
(7623 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jan 14, 2003
Posts: 7159
|
What goes through my mind while I'm leading trad: Where's my next gear? Couple of moves up there. Damn, nothing. Where's my next gear? Must be something. Getting pumped. Come on, next gear. Really pumped now. Come ON! Forget the next gear, what was my last gear? Hang on, what WAS my last gear? Shit I'm pumped. Come on, what was the last - .... Oooooh my balls.
|
|
|
|
|
forjoke
Oct 25, 2005, 1:52 PM
Post #76 of 77
(6375 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Mar 24, 2005
Posts: 13
|
Where is my 2# cam? Where is my 2# cam? Damn, I should have bought more cams.
|
|
|
|
|
rick_marsh
Oct 25, 2005, 2:00 PM
Post #77 of 77
(6375 views)
Shortcut
Registered: May 18, 2005
Posts: 36
|
usually some annoying song recently heard on the radio
|
|
|
|
|
|