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paganmonkeyboy
Oct 13, 2005, 5:28 PM
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Or ? ...*And*... :D
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alex_08
Oct 13, 2005, 5:31 PM
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i knew it
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climber_osu
Oct 13, 2005, 5:31 PM
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I can get my climbing fix by stealing. That's great news with gas prices like they are.
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dingus
Oct 13, 2005, 5:31 PM
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Me too I guess.
My brother-in-law showed me an article from a motorcycle touring magazine, of all things, that stated some interesting notions. The idea of risk management among bikers is very similar to climbers in some respects.
My BIL rides a big touring bike. He considers himself a risk averter... he doesn't seek it out, he avoids it. So he takes the motorsickle equivalents of 'safety first.' We certainly have our climbers like that.
But the article was comparing touring riders to cafe race style performance riders, the 180 mph crowd. The article talked about risk thresholds, boredome susceptibility, etc, same as your article. They went on to attempt to explain the evolutionary aspect of these differences.
Its somewhat cliche, but doesn't mean it isn't true, anyway, they used farmer vs hunter as the example. Farmers have to stay put, tend a crop, bring it to fruition, harvest it, tend the land through winter and start all over again. A farmer will not farm for long if he is easily bored. So farmer communities self-select people with low tolerance for risk, who are engaged rather than bored, by watching the corn grow.
Hunters, on the other hand, are opportunistic and always on the lookout for the score. So from the git their attention is wandering. They have to 'excite themselves' for the group hunt and do so by gathering together and making 'male talk.'
They tend to be goal focused and can often ignore all side issues, including risk, as they tunnel vision on their prey for example.
When they aren't actually hunting (high stimulation), they tend to laze around or get in trouble sticking their noses where they shouldn't be. They like to fight for position amongst themselves too.
Now I know the whole hunter gatherer thing is a theory and a cliche one at that. But I see parallels between hunters and climbers, HUGE parallels. I also see that the risk averse crowd, the touring crowd, has made inroads to climbing just as they have in biking.
We now have lots of risk averse climbers in our sports, people not easily bored for example, from climbing the same plastic routes in the same plastic gym for year after year. (I think I would rather just blow my brains out!)
Young men are especially prone to this hunter thing though. Human males, 15-25 years old, the most dangerous creature that ever walked the face of the earth. Dr. Laura
T-Rex would RUN AND HIDE!
DMT
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squierbypetzl
Moderator
Oct 13, 2005, 6:24 PM
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Donīt think many people (climbers) will be surprised.
Damn, 4 out of 4, that ainīt too good I guess... :(
Interesting enough article, and though Iīve always known Iīm just another adrenaline junkie looking for a fix, climbing feels deeper to me than say, riding a motorcyle or bungie jumping.
edited to add: strangely ironic, just noticed my rating changed to "adrenaline junkie"...
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j_ung
Oct 13, 2005, 6:26 PM
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I think the article both overanalyzes and overgeneralizes. I have my own reasons for climbing and they don't include those mentioned.
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brent_e
Oct 13, 2005, 8:48 PM
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In reply to: Hunters, on the other hand, are opportunistic and always on the lookout for the score. So from the git their attention is wandering. They have to 'excite themselves' for the group hunt and do so by gathering together and making 'male talk.' They tend to be goal focused and can often ignore all side issues, including risk, as they tunnel vision on their prey for example. When they aren't actually hunting (high stimulation), they tend to laze around or get in trouble sticking their noses where they shouldn't be. They like to fight for position amongst themselves too. We now have lots of risk averse climbers in our sports, people not easily bored for example, from climbing the same plastic routes in the same plastic gym for year after year. (I think I would rather just blow my brains out!) Young men are especially prone to this hunter thing though. Human males, 15-25 years old, the most dangerous creature that ever walked the face of the earth. Dr. Laura T-Rex would RUN AND HIDE! DMT
Dingus,
Funny that you added hunting into the mix. I went to hunt waterfowl for the first time last weekend. The excitement of seeing a small flock of birds turn and come into your decoys is a lot like pulling through moves a above your gear. I can definitely relate to your analogy.
Also funny that you mentioned the hunting thing and "blowing your brains out"!!! LOL :D
Take care
Brent
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dangle
Oct 13, 2005, 9:16 PM
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I can't sit around reading boring articles. I have to go out and hunt down another new route, or rob a bank or shoot somebody......
So what are you trying to say anyway?
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forkliftdaddy
Oct 13, 2005, 9:19 PM
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Let's see...
Found shoplifting an incredible thrill as a teenager
Have been known to trespass now and then
Have had sex in a few public places
Rode donorcycle (until I discovered climbing)
Have played loud (often obnoxious) music for years
Used to sport boots and trench coat, strange hair, occasionally make-up
Have used/abused a few intoxicants
Like to free solo
Am bored with this thread already
In contrast...
Have never sky dived or bungee jumped
Have talked about replacing my truck for 2 years
Have never kicked a audience member or been kicked off stage
Have no tatoos or piercings
Have never had a sexual encounter w/two or more folks at the same time
Gave up the good stuff for my health, well-being (and climbing)
Have been with the same woman for a while now
Rarely boulder; prefer trad climbing
Managed to make this list
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moose_droppings
Oct 13, 2005, 9:59 PM
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I'm to bored to steal on my days off from fire&rescue, so i just go climbing to soothe my soul.
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ken777
Oct 13, 2005, 10:18 PM
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i am what i am.
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vawwyakr
Oct 13, 2005, 10:24 PM
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I would like to see them fit me into their "research" conclusions. Lets see, me:
-Computer Programmer
-Most exciting thing I did before climbing and whitewater kayaking was reading books and playing computer games (and not usually the violent ones) and I enjoyed (and still enjoy) these activities immensely although I have less time for them now.
-Don't Drink alcohol (I can count the number of times I've had it on my fingers without having the need to reuse fingers)
-Don't smoke, never have
-Never done drugs either
-I can't remember ever having gotten into trouble at school
-I've never stolen anything either
I find both of my choosen hobbies interesting fun and challenging. I lead trad up to 10b and sport to around 11b/c. I kayak in the class IV+ to V- range and have only not done harder because of the recent lack of rain and my girlfriend is still trying to catch up on skills. I've free soloed easier stuff on occassion.
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dynamo_
Oct 13, 2005, 10:37 PM
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In reply to: genetically drawn to intense stimulation
YESSIREE. :lol:
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rockkid55
Oct 14, 2005, 12:40 AM
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I don't understand the analogy between Climbing and Hunting.
I see nothing exciting about murdering innocent animals with a high-powered rifle that could down a jumbo jet.
As a matter of fact, I find it disheartening that ANY climbers would hunt.
Stealing; defacing property; drunk in public . . . sure. good times. But murdering birdies and bunnies and deeries? Come on guys. Does that really make you feel like you have a big penis?
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omegaprime
Oct 14, 2005, 2:54 AM
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Interesting article, and I can relate to it.. to a certain extent.
I'm a software Software engineer (READ: Nerd) but I like riding bikes and climbing, due to the thrill of the risk involved in those activities. I get bored easily too, but not in everything I do. Hei, I've been climbing in the same gym for the past 1year plus, and they seldom set up new routes. :wink:
As j_ung mentioned, the article does generalize, as I can also find other reasons I like those activities besides the risk. Nevertheless, I can't help noticing that the risk is a component of what makes it appealing to me in the first place.
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grk10vq
Oct 14, 2005, 3:52 AM
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so i have "sensation seeking" to blame for loss of short term memory.
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annak
Oct 14, 2005, 5:07 AM
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Interesting article, but I disagree with most of the points. Intense stimulation -- yes, but not just raw adrenaline, that's cheap.
Never felt excited about stupid adrenalin pumping stuff like banjee jumping, roller-coasters, shop-lifting, hunting, lottery, and the like, but always was attracted to activities that involve large degree of uncertanity of the outcome, real possibility of failure (and serious consequencies of the latter), and require intense focus and overcoming ones fears and weaknesses for success. Like career in science where you always on uncertain ground and in doubt and have to take chances.
Have to admit, however, that never had been on perfect terms with law, indulged in smoking, alcohol, and some other aforementioned un-wholesome activities...
Edited to add: My granddad was a smuggler, and I am feeling really bored after living in the same place (LA) for 7 years -- the longest so far.
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shanz
Oct 14, 2005, 5:29 AM
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Hrm well lets see
Im a corporate drone
Used do lighting and riggin for concerts
Dont do drugs
Drink on occasion
Hate fighting but spent years in the martial arts
Finishing my masters degree
Avid bowhunter (for the meat- PERIOD)
Same woman for years
Shes a climber that outclimbs me (YES I ADMIT IT)
Prefer the quiet solitude rather than noisy places
Obsessed with climbing !
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janderson4010
Oct 14, 2005, 5:54 AM
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I was incarcerated for stealing, I never really made money or anything, I just liked it. Climbing is a much better substitute, i'll probably never spend a month and a half in jail for climbing, I hope.
but j_ung has a point, that article does generalize, sorry if I spelled your screename wrong. But the point is some climbers are the safest people I know, some are really crazy.
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ctardi
Oct 14, 2005, 3:53 PM
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In reply to: In reply to: genetically drawn to intense stimulation YESSIREE. :lol:
That new emoticon really makes you look like a hick.
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dingus
Oct 14, 2005, 4:04 PM
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In reply to: I don't understand the analogy between Climbing and Hunting. I see nothing exciting about murdering innocent animals with a high-powered rifle that could down a jumbo jet. As a matter of fact, I find it disheartening that ANY climbers would hunt. Stealing; defacing property; drunk in public . . . sure. good times. But murdering birdies and bunnies and deeries? Come on guys. Does that really make you feel like you have a big penis?
Blow me.
DMT
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paganmonkeyboy
Oct 14, 2005, 4:37 PM
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Let's face it people - All Sweeping Generalizations Are Bad and Inaccurate - Every single g.d. one of 'em...end of story...
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