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tgreene
Mar 28, 2006, 2:12 AM
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In reply to: I have to agree that the cam is not square in the picture frame. Any lines that are at right angles (90 degrees) through the cam to the picture frame will then show that the cam is not square or straight. Michael
Also, I have to ask if you guys that are arguing against my theories and images are aware of who Mal Daly is..? From your responses after his, I'm not so sure that you do know... :idea:
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stymingersfink
Mar 28, 2006, 4:27 AM
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In reply to: {more rant} if you put enough force on that soft aluminum to bend the axles you wouldn't even recognize the lobes.
DING!DING!DING!DING!DING!
WE HAVE A WINNER!
When purchasing older used cams, the "axle-slop" of the "cam-lobe" is my favorite way to judge how much use and abuse the cam has seen. I call it cam-lobe deflection, I measure it in mm at the un-retracted cam-lobe tip, and excessive play = rejection. Then comes into consideration the quality of the lobe face, and the state of the anodizing (if any).
The axle's are straight, the hole in the cam lobe i out of round. the appearance of the axles bending is probably due to the camera's perspective. lay-people think camera's don't lie. they are mistaken. think drill into thin metal sheet, then wobble drill around to enlarge hole. same effect.
when it interferes with proper functioning of the cam, it's junk. try to avoid using similar pieces in a similar manner in the future. think of it as an education, cheap at $50. (but I would make the faller replace it for you. it's their actions that fucked it up.)
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weschrist
Mar 28, 2006, 6:14 AM
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In reply to: Also, I have to ask if you guys that are arguing against my theories and images are aware of who Mal Daly is..? From your responses after his, I'm not so sure that you do know... :idea:
dude, I saw him this weekend. he's a reasonable man, I'm sure he will come around.
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tgreene
Mar 28, 2006, 1:37 PM
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In reply to: In reply to: Hold a straight edge to what? You diagrammed the cam feet and even without the diagram a 2nd grader could see the cam feet are not parallel.
At the time that Cracklover wrote his statement that you first quoted above, he had not yet diagrammed anything, I had... {comprehension skillZ suck #1}
In reply to: In reply to: The parallel orange lines begin on the lower right axle, and extend in a straight line from the outer post, to the visible portion of the axle between the 2 right lobes, and up and across to the left... goes from the top of the lower axle to the bottom of the upper axle. Your lower yellow line goes... well, you and God only know because you don't have any visual reference on the left side.
Also, unless you're fortunate enough to have a holographic simulator as a computer monitor, there is no fucking way to do a comparitive evaluation with a straight edge held up to a monitor... NONE! :roll:
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weschrist
Mar 28, 2006, 6:16 PM
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In reply to: I verly clearly stated the lines were orange, yet you responed in regards to yellow lines that don't exist... {comprehension skillZ suck #2}
way to make fun of the color blind guy... does it make you feel good about yourself?
In reply to: Also, unless you're fortunate enough to have a holographic simulator as a computer monitor, there is no f---ing way to do a comparitive evaluation with a straight edge held up to a monitor... NONE! :roll:
splain to me how holding a straight edge up to the computer is ANY different at all to you drawing lines from the exact same picture?
I cracks me up that you can draw lines on the computer, claim that the axle (which you can't see) is bent based on the position of the deformed lobes (as indicated by the OP), then give me shit for using a straight edge. The only difference is that you drew the lines in the wrong places. You were lining up the cam lobe features, not the axle. If you are arguing for a bent axle why not line up the top of the endpoints (clearly visible) and compare that to the steel housing of the axle in the middle of the cam... hint, if it forms a right angle the axle is not bent...
It really is pretty simple, the axles are not going to bend without MUCH more damage to the lobes.
The rest was simply me trying to explain the situation in terms of what had been presented... which obviously didn't work because ya'll had your minds made up. "omfg, the axle bent... wow..." duh.
peas
http://www.worth1000.com/...es/24000/24361_w.jpg
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vegastradguy
Mar 28, 2006, 6:44 PM
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this sort of shit is why i find rc.com a constant source of amusement.
lets see, if this happened to one of my cams, what would i do? post about it on rc.com with a picture? or would i just drop the cam into the mail to the manufacturer with a note that says:
'hi, i fucked up this cam when i fell on it last week. thought you might want to have a look, and while you're at it can you tell me exactly what is wrong with it, i'm just curious. thanks. by the way, it held my fall, so while you're looking at this one, i'll be at REI buying another, thanks for making a piece of gear that saved my life!'
its a safe bet that i'd go with the latter!
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redpoint73
Mar 28, 2006, 6:51 PM
Post #84 of 126
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In reply to: In reply to: This ain't a #3 camelot wow, really? dude, you live in Boston, when is the last time you have placed a cam let alone fallen on one hard enough to do any damage? For what it is worth I grew up in SLC
Those are fightin' words. Tread carefully, "dude".
I am suprised that cracklover has not already taken you to task for that comment. Take a look at his profile. His climbing resume is insanely extensive. It looks like he climbs LOTS and has probably placed plenty of cams lately. Which is more than I can say for people without the guts to even put their location on their profile.
A whole bunch of Boston climbers frequent this place called "the Gunks". You may have heard of it. There is a bit of trad climbing there. Cannon and Cathedral are closeby as well. Places where people like Henry Barber practiced before testing his skills in Yosemite. Henry Barber still lives and climbs in New England. It must not be too shabby here.
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weschrist
Mar 28, 2006, 7:02 PM
Post #85 of 126
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In reply to: Take a look at his profile. His climbing resume is insanely extensive. It looks like he climbs LOTS and has probably placed plenty of cams lately.
Or at least spent alot of time posting about it.
In reply to: Which is more than I can say for people without the guts to even put their location on their profile.
If I put my location in my profile I would have to change it every 1-6 months. Since July my locations have been: SLC, Maple, Rifle, Flagstaff, Montana, Idaho, Tahoe, Yosemite, Bishop, San Diego, Pine Mountain, other SoCal crags, Red Rocks, more Bishop, Mammoth, more Yosemite, more Tahoe, back to Bishop, and more Red Rocks.
In reply to: A whole bunch of Boston climbers frequent this place called "the Gunks". You may have heard of it.
Oh yeah, I heard of that place... but I thought it was pronounced "the Junks"
In reply to: Places where people like Henry Barber practiced before testing his skills in Yosemite.
Who? Did he pass his "test?"
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weschrist
Mar 28, 2006, 7:04 PM
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In reply to: this sort of s--- is why i find rc.com a constant source of amusement.
Yeah, helps pass this shitty weather... although if I can round up a partner we might be able to hit some limestone today...
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redpoint73
Mar 28, 2006, 7:09 PM
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In reply to: In reply to: Places where people like Henry Barber practiced before testing his skills in Yosemite. Who? Did he pass his "test?"
You obviously don't know that much about climbing if you haven't heard of Henry Barber.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Henry_Barber
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mattm
Mar 28, 2006, 7:18 PM
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In reply to: this sort of s--- is why i find rc.com a constant source of amusement. lets see, if this happened to one of my cams, what would i do? post about it on rc.com with a picture? or would i just drop the cam into the mail to the manufacturer with a note that says: 'hi, i f--- up this cam when i fell on it last week. thought you might want to have a look, and while you're at it can you tell me exactly what is wrong with it, i'm just curious. thanks. by the way, it held my fall, so while you're looking at this one, i'll be at REI buying another, thanks for making a piece of gear that saved my life!' its a safe bet that i'd go with the latter!
TROPHY and the best post in this thread yet! This is EXACTLY what I would do too.
Once again - Vegas Trad comes through
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weschrist
Mar 28, 2006, 7:33 PM
Post #90 of 126
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In reply to: This is EXACTLY what I would do too. Once again - Vegas Trad comes through
Boring!
Besides, then I still wouldn't know who Harry Barber is and I would be tragically lacking that essential part of climbing knowledge that could propel me into climbing superstardumb.
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tgreene
Mar 28, 2006, 7:40 PM
Post #91 of 126
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In reply to: In reply to: I verly clearly stated the lines were orange, yet you responed in regards to yellow lines that don't exist... {comprehension skillZ suck #2}way to make fun of the color blind guy... does it make you feel good about yourself?
As for a straight edge on a monitor to attempt to prove your point, that's insane, because numerous stadia lines had already been placed on the image, along with an explanation dictating what element would actually be skewed based upon the perspective and vanashing point... Also, I specifically used the lobes and not the axles, because only the right sides and the tip of the top left could be seen. From the "probable alignment" as noted in my many posts, the orange lines followed a clear path from the right axles between the lobes where the axel is visable. This in turn shows severe deformity. Furthermore, the parallel stature of the right lobes would in fact indicate that they moved equally, and the only way for that to happen is to bend the axle.
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saxfiend
Mar 28, 2006, 7:48 PM
Post #92 of 126
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In reply to: In reply to: this sort of s--- is why i find rc.com a constant source of amusement. lets see, if this happened to one of my cams, what would i do? post about it on rc.com with a picture? or would i just drop the cam into the mail to the manufacturer with a note that says: 'hi, i f--- up this cam when i fell on it last week. thought you might want to have a look, and while you're at it can you tell me exactly what is wrong with it, i'm just curious. thanks. by the way, it held my fall, so while you're looking at this one, i'll be at REI buying another, thanks for making a piece of gear that saved my life!' its a safe bet that i'd go with the latter! TROPHY and the best post in this thread yet! This is EXACTLY what I would do too.
By the way, has anyone checked this damaged cam for MICROFRACTURES?? :shock: :shock:
JL
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weschrist
Mar 28, 2006, 8:08 PM
Post #93 of 126
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In reply to: WoW .. I didn't realize that colorblind ppl couldn't even read the word " ORANGE"... 8^)
orange? yellow? its all the same... the axle isn't bent.
In reply to: As for a straight edge on a monitor to attempt to prove your point, that's insane, because numerous stadia lines had already been placed on the image
again, in the wrong place.
In reply to: along with an explanation dictating what element would actually be skewed based upon the perspective and vanashing point...
give it up, you are a graphic artist, you don't know shit about bent axles on cams. the axles are not bent, get over it.
In reply to: Also, I specifically used the lobes and not the axles, because only the right sides and the tip of the top left could be seen.
again, using an easily deformed (and quite often deformed) aspect of the cam to INFER a bent steal axle... you see no problem with this?
In reply to: From the "probable alignment" as noted in my many posts, the orange lines followed a clear path from the right axles between the lobes where the axel is visable.
the yellow lines do not follow the "clear path..." because NONE of the upper axle is visable between the lobes, not one single micron of axle in that picture.
In reply to: This in turn shows severe deformity. Furthermore, the parallel stature of the right lobes would in fact indicate that they moved equally, and the only way for that to happen is to bend the axle.
you can use all the big words you want, throw in all the graphic artist perspective bs you want, use whatever color lines you want, and imagine seeing the axle in the photo all you want... the axle is NOT bent.
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weschrist
Mar 28, 2006, 8:13 PM
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In reply to: I'd go with six pages of arguing.
7 and counting
In reply to: By the way, has anyone checked this damaged cam for MICROFRACTURES?? :shock: :shock:
tom greene is currently diagraming all the microfractures that he can see in the axle between cam lobes... hopefully he will be doing this in fucia, it goes well with yellow.
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cracklover
Mar 28, 2006, 10:28 PM
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In reply to: In reply to: In reply to: This ain't a #3 camelot wow, really? dude, you live in Boston, when is the last time you have placed a cam let alone fallen on one hard enough to do any damage? For what it is worth I grew up in SLC Those are fightin' words. Tread carefully, "dude". I am suprised that cracklover has not already taken you to task for that comment. Take a look at his profile. His climbing resume is insanely extensive. It looks like he climbs LOTS and has probably placed plenty of cams lately. Which is more than I can say for people without the guts to even put their location on their profile.
Hahaha!!! Oh, what you miss after of day of actually working! Thanks, Redoint, you're right, I do climb! Uh... last time I placed cams was this last Sunday - two days ago. Did a little aiding in preparation for a trip out west. But I'm just a weekend warrior with a passion and a very modest talent. Wes may be color-blind, have poor reading comprehension, and have nothing but half-broken and wobbly cams, but I'd climb with him anyway, so long as he doesn't fuck up my cams - he seems to have way too much experience with that for my taste.
Anyway, if you're implying that our season in Boston is just getting started, you're right. But I've been on rock a little all winter long. You just have to be a tad nuts to climb rock over the winter here. Check.
Anyway, back to the point. I'm not going to continue to explain why it looks like the axle is slightly bent. I did so twice, and no-one has refuted my point. Wes simply said the line was "poorly drawn". I disagree - I lined it up with the cam head. At any rate, while it looks pretty clear to me that the axle is slightly bent, I think the cam lobes are also reamed off-center, because the deflection from straight that the axle shows is not sufficient to cause the angle of the cam lobes. That's why I said in my last post that it looks like both are happening. At any rate, I'd bet Wes a six pack of good beer that if one disassembled that cam and rolled the axles on a nice marble countertop, you'd feel the bend (like you do on a warped pool cue-stick when you roll it on the table) on at least one of the axles.
What do you say, Wes? I don't want to break your bank account - can you scrape up the pennies, or do you want out?
GO
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weschrist
Mar 28, 2006, 10:37 PM
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In reply to: What do you say, Wes? I don't want to break your bank account - can you scrape up the pennies, or do you want out?
shit, I'll even pay shipping on the cam... but you have to come to the CA or the beer.
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cracklover
Mar 29, 2006, 3:20 AM
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In reply to: In reply to: What do you say, Wes? I don't want to break your bank account - can you scrape up the pennies, or do you want out? s---, I'll even pay shipping on the cam... but you have to come to the CA or the beer.
The CA? You mean California. I see how you're trying to weasle out of this one already!
Any volunteers to act as an unbiased third party we both trust? Able to disassemble the cam without messing up the axles?
GO
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weschrist
Mar 29, 2006, 6:04 AM
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I sure as hell ain't coming to Boston when the grand ditch of granite is 3 hours from my front door.
I know, I will pay for the cam to be shipped to BD... did I mention I have friends there?
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tgreene
Mar 29, 2006, 1:59 PM
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Send it to Mal... That's about as nuetral as a 3rd party could get! ;)
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weschrist
Mar 31, 2006, 11:00 PM
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No way. Mal is friends with my ex-girlfriend... he can't be trusted in sensitive matters such as these.
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