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Potter Climbs Delicate Arch
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tonloc


May 11, 2006, 1:46 AM
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Re: Ass Hat Potter Climbs Delicate Arch [In reply to]
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fuck it that boy can climb whatever else is going on...


ne_dan


May 11, 2006, 2:07 AM
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I think this was just Dean Potter making a statement saying that by protecting America's wild and natural place we are making it so that no one can enjoy them.

All be it an incredibly stupid statement, but whats done is done.

There's only one way to make the NPS happy now and it involves getting on your knees.

This doesn't take away from anything he's done before, it just makes all climbers look bad.


threefox


May 11, 2006, 3:16 AM
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I agree with the idea that he was making a statement. Let's see, he did it first thing in the morning right? Didn't I see something about climbing at dawn. Hmmm, curious isn't it?

Dawn would be a logical time to commit a criminal or an un-popular act.

Tell me he wasn't posing for the pictures we've seen. Hell, tell me all you want to and it won't change the fact that he was posing.

White chalk? Don't know anything about that. Bottom line is if he used white chalk it was an obvious slap in the face of NPS rules.

Criminal or not, it is a common fact that there are certain area's where climbing isn't wanted. This moron claims to be a part time Moab local, what an idiot.

Anyone ever heard the saying "Don't Shit Where you Eat!"

I'll bet if you took anyone NOT famous, say one of us from the general climbing community. Our ass would have received a citation at the bare minimum. Most likely there would have been a different photograph taken along with some ink on the pads of our fingers.

Can you say TRESPASSING?

Patagonia outta cut him loose, I bet they will.

Somebody from Access Fund should pay someone with a low moral turpitude to go visit him some time soon. You know, nothing serious, maybe just a few broken fingers to slow him down for a month or so.

He's as much of an ambassador for climbing as Saddam and Osama are for World Peace and Religious Freedom!

What a dumb shit!


And Potter, I'll be in Moab on the 23rd if you want to discuss this in person.


areyoumydude


May 11, 2006, 4:49 AM
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Re: Potter Climbs Delicate Arch [In reply to]
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You guys really need to get a life.

Fuk the police.


alvinswill


May 11, 2006, 6:16 AM
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Re: Ass Hat Potter Climbs Delicate Arch [In reply to]
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Shameless on his part. This is ironically what Dean's boss at Patagonia use to warn all of us about the dangers of mixing money and climbing. What a bunch of hypocrites from the top to the bottom (Dean) at Patagonia.


lonnie_utah


May 11, 2006, 11:42 AM
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Re: Ass Hat Potter Climbs Delicate Arch [In reply to]
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Ok. Maybe Washington's nose won't work. However, "Boondocks" said they would let him climb their arch anytime he wanted, for just 5 bucks!!!!

http://home.comcast.net/~shullln/DSCN2694.JPG

If he does good, they might even let him drive the go carts!!!


lonnie_utah


May 11, 2006, 11:50 AM
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Re: Ass Hat Potter Climbs Delicate Arch [In reply to]
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In reply to:
Shameless on his part. This is ironically what Dean's boss at Patagonia use to warn all of us about the dangers of mixing money and climbing. What a bunch of hypocrites from the top to the bottom (Dean) at Patagonia.

I'm willing to bet patagonia lets him go (cans him). I had a long talk with one of their CSR's yesterday and they say they are getting quite the call/email volume on the subject. People are pissed. The lady I spoke with said that many of the employees are "upset" by it. This is a long way to come for a company that once upon a time had photos of John Sherman crow barring bolts of a route in their catalog...


bill413


May 11, 2006, 12:58 PM
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Re: Potter Climbs Delicate Arch [In reply to]
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Just, for what it's worth, a letter I sent to Patagonia:
In reply to:
Dear Sirs -

I have a lot of respect for your company, for the environmental stances it has taken. I am saddenned to learn that one of your climbing ambassadors, Dean Potter, does not have such an environmental awareness.

I am referring to the recently reported climb by Mr. Potter of Delicate Arch in Arches National Park. How could he have "studied the tiny cracks and crevices ..." for "almost 12 years" without being aware that such a climb was illegal. And, that the sandstone formations are relatively fragile.

I am a climber. I have been to Delicate Arch regularly. Yes, I understand the desire to climb it. However, I also know what the impact of allowing climbing on such a structure would be.

I would like you to convey to Mr. Potter that such actions are not good for the climbing community, and are inconsistent with his role at your company.

Thank you for your attention.


ullr


May 11, 2006, 1:39 PM
Post #184 of 322 (44150 views)
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In reply to:
You guys really need to get a life.

Fuk the police.

Unfortunately, "Fuk"ing the police in this scenario is also fucking your peers. Something I generally try to avoid doing.


photon


May 11, 2006, 2:36 PM
Post #185 of 322 (44150 views)
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Re: Potter Climbs Delicate Arch [In reply to]
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Awesome climb! anyone know what he rated it?
Also, any record of a dry tool winter asent?


fitzontherocks


May 11, 2006, 2:46 PM
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There's probably some weird reason it's called DELICATE Arch.


tradclimbinfool


May 11, 2006, 3:18 PM
Post #187 of 322 (44150 views)
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Personally I find it quite impossible to believe that Potter didn't realize his actions were illegal. His statements in the newspaper article sound like total BS. Very much reminds me of the lame comments Lindsey Jacobellis made after blowing a gold medal due to showing off and pulling a bad method air in the snowboard cross at the winter games. Sometimes a lie is just too easy to spot, Dean Potter.

So, I did some digging on the NPS site to see if I could actually find their climbing regulations. Someone posted a link earlier to their one page regarding climbing. I was curious if they had recently changed any wording on this page so I checked google's cached view of the page which was recorded on May 2, 2006.
In reply to:
The rock at Arches offers excellent climbing opportunities, despite its sandy nature. Most climbing routes in the park require advanced techniques. Permits are not required, unless the trip involves an overnight stay in the backcountry.

It the responsibility of all climbers to know and obey park regulations and route closures.

Rock climbing guides to Arches and the surrounding area are available at the visitor center and through the bookstore.

Regulations

Use of motorized drills is prohibited.
Climbing is prohibited on any arch identified on current USGS 7.5 minute topographical maps; on Balanced Rock year-round; on Bubo from January 1st to June 30th; on Industrial Disease on the Devil Dog Spire from January 1st to June 30th.
The use of chalk for climbing must be of a color which blends with the native rock.
Climbers are encouraged to employ clean-climbing ethics, leave dull-colored webbing when recovery is impossible, and access climbing routes via established trails, slickrock or sandy washes.
Nothing has changed here since Potter's climb and it seems to clearly state that climbing named arches is off limits.
However, digging through the Parks Management Documents I did come across some significant changes in their climbing policy. As of February 7, 2006, this is how their climbing regulations read:
In reply to:
Rock Climbing:
The following rock climbing routes may be closed for all or a portion of the year due to
aesthetic, wildlife, or other resource related concerns:
1. Any arch identified on the current issue U.S.G.S. 7.5 minute topographical map.
2. Balanced Rock- Closed to climbing year-round.
3. Bubo- Closed from January 1st to June 30th.
4. Industrial Disease on the Devil Dog Spire is closed from January 1st to June 30th.
The use of chalk for climbing must be of a color that blends with the native rock. Webbing
left at rappel/belay points must be subdued colors that blend with the rock.
The use of motorized power drills is prohibited.
Now, only two days after Potter's ascent, on May 9, the park service has updated this document with the following wording:
In reply to:
Rock Climbing:
Definitions:
Technical Rock Climbing is defined as ascending or descending a rock formation utilizing
rock climbing equipment.
Free Climbing and Clean Aid Climbing are minimum impact approaches that employ
chocks, stoppers, nuts and camming devices, rather than pitons or bolts, for protection or
direct support. These are climbing aids that are removable and do not damage the rock.
Slacklining is defined as walking on a rope or other line that is anchored between rock
formations, trees, or any other natural features. Height of the rope above the ground is
immaterial.
The following closures, conditions, and restrictions apply to rock climbing or similar
activities such as, but not limited to, technical rock climbing, free climbing and clean aid
climbing within Arches National Park:
Closures:
1. Any arch or natural bridge named on the United States Geological Survey 7.5
minute topographical maps covering Arches National Park is closed to climbing
year-round.
2. Balanced Rock- Closed to climbing year-round.
3. Bubo- Closed from January 1st to June 30th.
3
4. Industrial Disease on the Devil Dog Spire is closed from January 1st to June
30th.
5. Slacklining is prohibited anywhere within Arches National Park year-round.
Restrictions:
No new permanent climbing hardware may be installed in any fixed location. If an
existing bolt or other hardware item is unsafe, it may be replaced. This will limit all
climbing to existing routes or new routes not requiring placement of fixed anchors.
Climbing anchors and/or protection points may not be placed with the use of a hammer
except to replace existing belay and rappel anchors and bolts on existing routes, or for
emergency self-rescue.
If an existing software item (sling, runner etc.) is unsafe, it may be replaced.
Software (webbing, accessory cords, etc.) that is left in place shall match the rock
surface in color.
The intentional removal of lichen or plants from rock is prohibited.
The physical altering of rock faces such as chiseling, glue reinforcement of existing
holds, and gluing of new holds is prohibited.
The use of motorized power drills is prohibited.
Fixed ropes may not be left in place for more than 24 hours. Fixed ropes left in place
longer than 24 hours shall be considered "abandoned property" and removed.
The use of chalk for climbing must be of a color that blends with the native rock.
I'm not really sure what to make of all this. I'm sure many of these issues have been on the minds of park officials for some time--guess they were just waiting for a Dean Potter (read that--"an arrogant ass") to come along and spur them into action. Thanks a lot buddy!


gogo


May 11, 2006, 3:34 PM
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Wow, it seems like a lot of people think that Dean Potter really was going for a fair amount of bank from climbing it . . .

Would the outcry here be the same if it were a different climber? Even if people disagree with it, a lot of this seems like an excuse to say "I don't like Dean Potter."

I also had another, hypothetical question for y'all that I've been wondering about. People flip about things like this, claiming that it is humans damaging nature, etc. Looking at a bigger perspective, though, is it really that bad? Aren't we part of nature? I understand that they say no climbing on named arches to protect them b/c they are rare geologic formations that might collapse in our lifetime, but from what I've gathered in this argument, it seems like they could potentially fall w/o anyone ever climbing on it, and Dean did climb it in the most natural way possible.

That, and I think its interesting that people are pissed about the newer, "clarified" regulations. The way most people here sound about protecting the purity of nature and such, these regulations seem to go alongside what you all want. Colored chalk, no pro just left on climbs, etc.

Sorry if there was no clear direction with what I just said, I just wanted to bring up a few points.


bill413


May 11, 2006, 3:44 PM
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The question has been asked is this a reaction specific to Dean Potter performing this act, as opposed to some other climber.

For myself, I can say that my major reaction is to any climber doing this. It is intensified by the fact that it is a high profile climber, and as such, reflects more on the community that has acquiesed in elevating him to this status.


keinangst


May 11, 2006, 4:02 PM
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My big issue with this is simply based on categorical imperative, not Potter's celeb status or sponsorship, etc.

If Potter is going to do it, then let's assume hundreds of people a day do it, too. Imagine it covered in chalk, broken holds, scuffs, black marks...and let's put a couple anchors at the top, too!

Now we have a problem. Therefore, it is wrong for anyone to do it. I don't agree with a lot of philosophers out there, but Kant was right on the money with that one. IMO it's the best way to settle most ethics questions, even in climbing.


daled


May 11, 2006, 4:05 PM
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A sample of what a person can do:

Dear Patagonia,

I have a lost a great deal of respect for your company because of the actions of Mr. Dean Potter. His climbing of Delicate Arch in Arches National Park shows an obvious disrespect for the environmental and law in general.

It is clear that this uncaring climbing ambassador was in it for his own personal reasons without regard for the rest of the climbing community. His actions whether he acknowledges it or not, reflect on the rest of the climbing community.

I regret to say that if this is the sort of behavior endorsed by Patagonia that I will no longer be able to support your company by purchasing your products. Certainly you do have a choice in which climbers you support and those climbers should have proper climbing morals and ethics. Mr. Dean Potter showed neither moral nor ethical judgment by his climbing of this fragile National Treasure.


All you have to do is send this to Patagonia if you disagree with Mr. Potter's actions and his connection with Patagonia. To be "dropped" by Patagonia may help Mr. Potter to think about his future actions in climbing.

Just my thoughts,

Dale


bill413


May 11, 2006, 4:17 PM
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Dale - that letter is so much better than mine. Very nice.


dingus


May 11, 2006, 4:21 PM
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In reply to:
It is clear that this uncaring climbing ambassador was in it for his own personal reasons without regard for the rest of the climbing community.

I'd dare say that applies to most climbers. I am certainly not into climbing for the benefit of the rest of the community.

That said, I do understand your point *about this particular incident*.

I don't think this deal warrants the ruination of a career though. I urge you good folks to not over react, to take a deep breath and ask yourselves how many times you might have lost your job over a mistake but did not, due to someone else's compassion and forgivenness.

Be not too hasty in going after someone's job!

(I anticipate the 'but CLIMBING ambassador IS his job...) and the point is well taken. I still urge you folks to stop look and listen before crssong the tracks into the 'off with his head' realm.

Cheers
DMT


climbingbums


May 11, 2006, 4:21 PM
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lame, but cool... but mostly lame.


golsen


May 11, 2006, 4:29 PM
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In reply to:
I also had another, hypothetical question for y'all that I've been wondering about. People flip about things like this, claiming that it is humans damaging nature, etc. Looking at a bigger perspective, though, is it really that bad? Aren't we part of nature?

We are all a part of nature. Sex is natural. But most of us dont video tape or photograph those natural things. Unless you are getting paid for it...


erclimb


May 11, 2006, 4:29 PM
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yeah, we're "part of nature, too", only we have something that the rest of nature doesn't--the ability to consciously direct our behavior...a 200-pound bear doesn't climb a tree (or rock) for fun or to test his limits or to seek a spiritual connection with the tree...so we can choose to treat nature with reverence or simply as a resource

i think most climbers choose to treat nature with reverence (to greater or lesser degrees); that's why we honor regulations on bolting, parking, approaching, etc.; we want to preserve the land even if our motivation isn't entirely selfless...

potter's decision to climb this spectacular formation tells me that he sees the rock as simply a resource for his own pleasure (or career)...there are still thousands of first ascents to be made around the world, and he cold have patagonia fund his expeditions to climb any of them...

further, perhaps the arch means nothing to him, but it means a great deal to many others...doesn't that deserve some respect?

the analogy to hueco has one problem...the regulations at hueco protect the damage done to the rocks by other humans...seriously, nobody has any idea what the petroglyphs mean...for all we know, they could simply be ancient graffitti: "the chief is a d---head"...however, just by speaking facetiously about hueco i will draw the wrath of many "pure" climbers

we should protect hueco and the arches and many other places...otherwise, why not drill in anwr or build a luxury home development outside red rock canyon or a tram across the grand canyon?


fitzontherocks


May 11, 2006, 4:36 PM
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If your're gonna write, you might need this:

Casey Sheahan, President, CEO
Patagonia
8550 White Fir St.
Reno, NV 89523


Partner tgreene


May 11, 2006, 4:44 PM
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I will offer that any letter or email that is sent to Patagonia would be taken MUCH more seriously if a spell and grammer checker were to be used. ;)

Ranting is one thing, but intelligent ranting gets far better results... unless u'Re bitchan about Nascar.


fitzontherocks


May 11, 2006, 4:50 PM
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That's grammar, not grammer. :wink:

(And I know I spelled "you're" as "your're." I goofed.)


ullr


May 11, 2006, 6:41 PM
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Recent press about this incredible climb:

Deseret News


New West

Outdoornewswire

Salt Lake Trib

Salt Lake Trib

Charlotte Observer

Yahoo News

The Olympian

Knick Knack

KUTV[/rul]

Helena Independent

Meta Filter

National Park Traveler

Plenty of negative press outside the climbing community.

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