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mattm
Jul 30, 2006, 11:20 PM
Post #76 of 103
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Registered: May 20, 2003
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- This thread has been moved from GENERAL to Yet-Another-Mindless-Forum-Argument-About-Bolts-VS-Trad
Seriously - My fingers long ago got tired arguing this with others from all over the place, most of whom have NEVER climbed in the area in question. Each area has unique circumstances and ethics and even a SINGLE climb may differ. Rap bolts in the GUNKS? Never gonna happen? Bolts near a Yosemite hand crack? Na-uh.
GENERALLY speaking - Bolted cracks are frowned upon EVERYWHERE. You can pretend otherwise but you'll be hard pressed to find a lot of climbers who feel otherwise.
There are of course EXCEPTIONS to this for various reason UNIQUE to the climb/area. Wasting time arguing about it on a forum that is by NO MEANS privy to said unique circumstances will soon loose it's charm to those new to the rc.com world.
Life Cycle of an Online Climber...
- Discover the rc.com (or gunks.com or cascadeclimbers.com or supertopo.com) FORUMS.
- Get excited that there are lots of climbers JUST LIKE you online and climbing!
- READ you're first TR about an are NEAR YOU = Feel even more a part of the club
- Post and get your first piece of info on a climb
- Ask a shoe fit question = learn about flaming
- Maybe post some helpful gear or route info (small %)
- Read your first "ethics" debate
- Get REALLY motivated and post a long, well thought out opinion
- Have a moron respond and disagree
- Spend more time responding
- Realize the guy bitching about a route in your area has NEVER climbed it or ANYWHERE near it.
- Continues above cycle for a while...
- Decide 1% of posters are really in touch with the climbing word
- Scan for that 1% and climb a SH_T LOAD more with the time you've saved.
- Check into the forums now and then to find the occasion GEM with REAL climbers who know their stuff (RGOLD, the slab post on supertopo, the occasional smart discussion on falls and physics or cams and physics etc
- watch the cycle repeat....
NOTE to anyone new - Find out where the "old timers" or "actual sensible" climbers hang out. Frequent those posts (I should listen to my own advice...)
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svilnit
Jul 30, 2006, 11:34 PM
Post #77 of 103
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Registered: Jun 19, 2002
Posts: 582
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Matt, I wish I had a trophy for you today... that was priceless!
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rockscaler2
Jul 30, 2006, 11:40 PM
Post #78 of 103
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Gunksgoer wants to spank the bolting chode LOL!!! :lol:
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fracture
Jul 31, 2006, 12:05 AM
Post #79 of 103
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Registered: Jun 13, 2003
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In reply to: In reply to: Trotter skipped those bolts on send to make the climb easier, not to make it harder. He didn't just skip certain bolts, he skipped ALL the bolts. Fiddling in micro nuts next to a bolt made it easier?
He didn't place a piece for each bolt. It was something like one piece in the space of all five. Obviously Trotter was doing this for the gear-wanking to some degree, of course, or he would've just preplaced the gear (which is much smarter tactics).
In reply to: Speaking of the naturalistic fallacy, why don't we chip lines into blank faces so that we've got more sport routes to climb?
We do.... have you ever been to a sport crag? ;)
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fracture
Jul 31, 2006, 12:16 AM
Post #80 of 103
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In reply to: As long as you're not going to hit anything, it's pretty safe - big falls do not necessarily equal bold climbing.
Well put.
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boombewm
Jul 31, 2006, 2:49 AM
Post #81 of 103
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Registered: Feb 28, 2006
Posts: 109
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I don't feel like the boulderin' folk are well represented in this thread. So, because everyone likes fireworks and destroying things, why don't we just pack that rock full of explosives (dynamite, cordite, propane tanks..) and make a bouldering field! This will effectively stop the bitching about the bolts, and the make a whole area for people to explore. Switch it up some ya know? Also, we can burn down the adjacent forest so the birds can't crap on the newly created boulders, we need to save this area for future generations to come.
/shenanigans
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the_iceman
Jul 31, 2006, 3:18 AM
Post #82 of 103
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Registered: Jun 16, 2006
Posts: 347
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Popping bolts into a rock can hardly be compared to blowing them up. Bolting doesn't destroy the rock, blowing it up does.
And to those of you who are going to start chopping bolts. If you're going to do it, please be good enough to finish the job and patch it. Just chopping bolts shows that you're just choping out of spite, and aren't really interested in "conservation".
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boombewm
Jul 31, 2006, 3:21 AM
Post #83 of 103
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don't be a pussy...blow up the rock
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colotopian
Jul 31, 2006, 3:35 AM
Post #84 of 103
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maybe that guy is drilling for oil. :)
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reno
Jul 31, 2006, 4:26 AM
Post #85 of 103
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In reply to: Climbing a splitter crack using just the bolts increases the commitment of the climb compared to protecting it with gear. If you only clip the bolts, you have to climb to the next bolt; whereas, if you are protecting it with gear, you can throw in a cam anywhere you feel insecure.
Oh, damn... that's funny shit right there.
If you didn't have so many years under your belt, I'd nominate this for GOTY.
Bolts = higher commitment. That's funny.
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the_iceman
Jul 31, 2006, 6:22 AM
Post #86 of 103
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Registered: Jun 16, 2006
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In reply to: In reply to: Climbing a splitter crack using just the bolts increases the commitment of the climb compared to protecting it with gear. If you only clip the bolts, you have to climb to the next bolt; whereas, if you are protecting it with gear, you can throw in a cam anywhere you feel insecure. Oh, damn... that's funny s--- right there. If you didn't have so many years under your belt, I'd nominate this for GOTY. Bolts = higher commitment. That's funny.
Not in all cases, he wasn't saying that just any bolted routes=higher commitment. But as plenty of people have already pointed out, this is a pretty perfect crack, which as he said, could be protected just about any time you start to feel a little sketchy. If you're going to insist on using absolutes in these types of debates you aren't going to get anywhere fast.
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annak
Jul 31, 2006, 3:23 PM
Post #87 of 103
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Registered: Oct 11, 2004
Posts: 191
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In reply to: My first question is: where was this taken? It looks a bit like a quarry. If it's Riverside Quarry in SoCal then what are the ethics for an area that's 100% manufactured from the start? Should chipping be bad ethics if the entire cliff is a big chip anyway?
It ain't no quarry.
http://www.rockclimbing.com/...p.cgi?Detailed=76619
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jt512
Jul 31, 2006, 9:27 PM
Post #88 of 103
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Registered: Apr 12, 2001
Posts: 21904
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In answer to the original question, yes, the picture is "real."
Jay
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climbsomething
Jul 31, 2006, 11:30 PM
Post #89 of 103
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Registered: May 30, 2002
Posts: 8588
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Sigh. Only 6 pages.
I'm sorry, J. You tried ;)
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the_iceman
Aug 1, 2006, 1:51 AM
Post #90 of 103
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Registered: Jun 16, 2006
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In reply to: Sigh. Only 6 pages. I'm sorry, J. You tried ;)
Lets go for 7.
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epsilon
Aug 1, 2006, 2:22 AM
Post #91 of 103
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Registered: Apr 7, 2006
Posts: 28
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In reply to: - This thread has been moved from GENERAL to Yet-Another-Mindless-Forum-Argument-About-Bolts-VS-Trad Seriously - My fingers long ago got tired arguing this with others from all over the place, most of whom have NEVER climbed in the area in question. Each area has unique circumstances and ethics and even a SINGLE climb may differ. Rap bolts in the GUNKS? Never gonna happen? Bolts near a Yosemite hand crack? Na-uh. GENERALLY speaking - Bolted cracks are frowned upon EVERYWHERE. You can pretend otherwise but you'll be hard pressed to find a lot of climbers who feel otherwise. There are of course EXCEPTIONS to this for various reason UNIQUE to the climb/area. Wasting time arguing about it on a forum that is by NO MEANS privy to said unique circumstances will soon loose it's charm to those new to the rc.com world. Life Cycle of an Online Climber... - Discover the rc.com (or gunks.com or cascadeclimbers.com or supertopo.com) FORUMS. - Get excited that there are lots of climbers JUST LIKE you online and climbing! - READ you're first TR about an are NEAR YOU = Feel even more a part of the club - Post and get your first piece of info on a climb - Ask a shoe fit question = learn about flaming - Maybe post some helpful gear or route info (small %) - Read your first "ethics" debate - Get REALLY motivated and post a long, well thought out opinion - Have a moron respond and disagree - Spend more time responding - Realize the guy b---- about a route in your area has NEVER climbed it or ANYWHERE near it. - Continues above cycle for a while... - Decide 1% of posters are really in touch with the climbing word - Scan for that 1% and climb a SH_T LOAD more with the time you've saved. - Check into the forums now and then to find the occasion GEM with REAL climbers who know their stuff (RGOLD, the slab post on supertopo, the occasional smart discussion on falls and physics or cams and physics etc - watch the cycle repeat.... NOTE to anyone new - Find out where the "old timers" or "actual sensible" climbers hang out. Frequent those posts (I should listen to my own advice...)
You forgot:
-get into lengthly arguments about controversial climbers (Mike Reardon, Mark Twight, Dean Potter, Fred Rouhling, etc.) involving a bunch of people none of whom have ever climbed with any of the guys being dissed.
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tripperjm
Aug 1, 2006, 3:34 AM
Post #92 of 103
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Registered: Jun 7, 2002
Posts: 10650
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In reply to: I think there is more to it than the picture is telling. I think it's a very clever troll.
BINGO, We have a winner! You can never go wrong when you bait the hook with a bolted crack.
Don't believe everything you see in a photo. I once saw a picture of a guy soloing a hard route in a climbing mag, turns out... Well you know.
In reply to: In answer to the original question, yes, the picture is "real."
I think you've caught all the fish you are going to with this lure.
The "real" question, is anything in the picture real?
It "apears" as if I am bolting a easy, perfectly protectable crack on good rock. But your eyes are deceiving you.
In reality.... that's not rock, it's rotten granite mud, we call it choss around here. That's not a perfectly protectable crack, it's a 50' loose, detatched pillar of junk, that was flexing more than 1/2" while I held in to drill the bolt, which also holds up another 40' of giant loose deathblocks that must be climbed to reach the anchors. That's not a easy(10a) sportbolted crack, it's deathwish. 100' of your worse loose rock nightmares, protected by bolts, that can be climbed by an experienced climber willing to take a chance. Defiantly not for your typical weekend warrior.
For those of you that still want to place cams on that route, pm me for details. I would be happy to take you to the route. Just make sure you kiss your girlfriend goodbye, bring a diaper so the piss doesn't run down your leg and a belayer who is willing to chance being buried under tons of choss if you pull out on the holds or happen to fall off and test your pro. And of course some quickdraws in the event you have to rethink your position.
The picture was originally taken to troll some old school trad buddies of mine on another site, worked well there. I was happy to see Jay was able to reuse it here with some degree of success.
and oh yea... Bolting a perfectly protectable crack is just wrong!
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el_layclimber
Aug 1, 2006, 4:08 AM
Post #93 of 103
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Registered: Jan 9, 2006
Posts: 550
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I have really learned something here. First of all, it is cool to make people angry and waste their time, and even cooler to do it more than once. Second, next time I see 90' of rock that I would define as a "death trap," I should bolt it. Third, should not take any trad betties to belay me on this route, because they won't be impressed by the bolts and I am likely to drop a fifty foot pillar of granite choss on them, which would probably diminish my chances of scoring.
All of you safety freaks just calm down, I will have my belayer wear a helmet and some gloves, and stand waaaaay off to the side. We will use rope signals: if I come off I will give the rope one rapid tug at approximately six kn of force and yell, "f***ing column of falling rock." That signal means he should cut the rope and run away.
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justthemaid
Aug 1, 2006, 4:10 AM
Post #94 of 103
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Registered: Sep 11, 2004
Posts: 777
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*(ding ding ding)*
I win! ^^^
Do I get a some kind of prize?
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climbsomething
Aug 1, 2006, 4:20 AM
Post #95 of 103
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Registered: May 30, 2002
Posts: 8588
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You know, Jack, that you're still gonna have people wiping the spittle off their chinstraps before continuing to tell you you're wrong, despite not knowing you, your personal ethics and style, or the quality or ethics of the rock/crag/route in question.
UH-HUURRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRHHH!! That's a perfectly protectable crack! You baby-killing seal-clubbing serial driller!
Oh, me and mine are coming to your chossy den of iniquity next weekend. Let's climb this rig! I'll bring tube socks, 150 feet of braided cordellette, a crowbar spray painted with pink glitter, and a fat package of deli-sliced ham for sammiches.
In reply to: In reply to: I think there is more to it than the picture is telling. I think it's a very clever troll. BINGO, We have a winner! You can never go wrong when you bait the hook with a bolted crack. Don't believe everything you see in a photo. I once saw a picture of a guy soloing a hard route in a climbing mag, turns out... Well you know. In reply to: In answer to the original question, yes, the picture is "real." I think you've caught all the fish you are going to with this lure. The "real" question, is anything in the picture real? It "apears" as if I am bolting a easy, perfectly protectable crack on good rock. But your eyes are deceiving you. In reality.... that's not rock, it's rotten granite mud, we call it choss around here. That's not a perfectly protectable crack, it's a 50' loose, detatched pillar of junk, that was flexing more than 1/2" while I held in to drill the bolt, which also holds up another 40' of giant loose deathblocks that must be climbed to reach the anchors. That's not a easy(10a) sportbolted crack, it's deathwish. 100' of your worse loose rock nightmares, protected by bolts, that can be climbed by an experienced climber willing to take a chance. Defiantly not for your typical weekend warrior. For those of you that still want to place cams on that route, pm me for details. I would be happy to take you to the route. Just make sure you kiss your girlfriend goodbye, bring a diaper so the piss doesn't run down your leg and a belayer who is willing to chance being buried under tons of choss if you pull out on the holds or happen to fall off and test your pro. And of course some quickdraws in the event you have to rethink your position. The picture was originally taken to troll some old school trad buddies of mine on another site, worked well there. I was happy to see Jay was able to reuse it here with some degree of success. and oh yea... Bolting a perfectly protectable crack is just wrong! |
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kman
Aug 1, 2006, 4:52 AM
Post #96 of 103
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Registered: Oct 16, 2001
Posts: 2561
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The prize is mine seal clubber :lol: Get your own sammich.
In reply to: We will use rope signals: if I come off I will give the rope one rapid tug at approximately six kn of force and yell, "f***ing column of falling rock." That signal means he should cut the rope and run away.
:lol: That's funny.
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tripperjm
Aug 1, 2006, 7:12 AM
Post #97 of 103
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Registered: Jun 7, 2002
Posts: 10650
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In reply to: You know, Jack, that you're still gonna have people wiping the spittle off their chinstraps before continuing to tell you you're wrong, despite not knowing you, your personal ethics and style, or the quality or ethics of the rock/crag/route in question. UH-HUURRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRHHH!! That's a perfectly protectable crack! You baby-killing seal-clubbing serial driller! Oh, me and mine are coming to your chossy den of iniquity next weekend. Let's climb this rig! I'll bring tube socks, 150 feet of braided cordellette, a crowbar spray painted with pink glitter, and a fat package of deli-sliced ham for sammiches.
No worries Hill, I've been taking hits and babysitting sissies for years. I'm kinda used to it. And for all we know, I could be a " baby-killing seal-clubbing serial driller!". HAHA!!!1
It will be great to see you and Alex. If you want to walk in with us for the morning session, you'll have to get up early. 7am at the parking lot, pm me for details. And definately bring your pink glittered crowbar, I just wore my last one out.
In reply to: The prize is mine seal clubber :lol: Get your own sammich.
sorry justthemaid, kman spoke first, he wins. Besides he had to do some research, you and I have been flirting at the crag for sometime. However I do have a consulation prize for you, pm me for invite to the new crag.
Well it's been fun, but I have to go. After a couple of long days at the crag and a few hours of sleep.... I have just enough time to buy more glue, sharpen my chisels and drillbits, find another crowbar(didn't know you could wear those out) recharge some batteries, definately locate some more deet, change my underware and then I'm off again.
And for "All of you safety freaks just calm down," I am NOT a role model. Just because I do stupid, dangerous, contriversial things doen't mean you should!
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climbsomething
Aug 1, 2006, 7:16 AM
Post #98 of 103
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In reply to: If you want to walk in with us for the morning session, you'll have to get up early. 7am at the parking lot, pm me for details. And definately bring your pink glittered crowbar, I just wore my last one out. |
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tripperjm
Aug 1, 2006, 7:50 AM
Post #99 of 103
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In reply to: In reply to: If you want to walk in with us for the morning session, you'll have to get up early. 7am at the parking lot, pm me for details. And definately bring your pink glittered crowbar, I just wore my last one out. There's a 7... in the MORNING? And I have to see this mysterious 7 "a.m." to see this bolted crack? OH ENOUGH WITH THE TROLLING!!
Sorry Hill, not a troll. I'll be leaving the parking lot at 7am and won't be back at the cars untill 8pm. We will be at the "Warm Up Wall" untill 1 and then we head over to "Frogland" for the afternoon session. The bolted death crack is at Frogland. I sent Jay a detailed discription on how to get there including a topo map, maybe he still has it and can send it to you. That way you could walk in whenever you want, but without the beta, you will never find us. Looking foward to seeing you guy's.
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justthemaid
Aug 1, 2006, 6:15 PM
Post #100 of 103
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In reply to: sorry justthemaid, kman spoke first, he wins. Besides he had to do some research, you and I have been flirting at the crag for sometime. However I do have a consulation prize for you, pm me for invite to the new crag.
Drat.
I was too lazy to read past the first page of this thread let alone do research.
It was a lucky guess. Perhaps Kman will throw me a crust for second place.
Your idea of a consulation prize might get me in trouble with the BF... :D ...uh, er- or were you refering to the invite to the secret crag? 8^) .
You've been sporting that crazy hair for a while. I have a theory that you actually pay some hairdresser to do that on purpose.
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