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fenderfour
Sep 22, 2006, 2:33 PM
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I'm glad to hear that others are taking the initiative to make their own. Maybe this will spur someone (Crackers???) on to make them available. Post some pics so I can gawk at your new creation.
Your process sounds dead-nuts on. I use a set of Metolius Easy Daisies instead of the fifi set up. If you wanted to, you could make a set of adjustable daisies like the ones Fish sells. Seattle Fabrics (I posted the link earlier) has the necessary 1" ankra buckles for a couple of bucks each.
I use the right/left ascending system. This is the more traditional way to jug. It is very fast once you h ave it dialed. It also takes a little less energy than the frog system on anything but a free hanging rope.
It goes like this -
I clip one locking carbiner to the bottom of each jug. I used a piece of 9/16 climb-spec webbing to attach the aid cuffs to the jugs. I tied a loop in both ends. One end is girth hitched to the hook at my knee, the other end is clipped to the jug.
The trick is getting them the right length. It will probably take you a while, but it's worth getting it perfectly dialed.
I also clip one of my adj. daisies to each jug. These are great when I'm jugging over a roof. I can push a jug up, cinch the daisy and fight my way through it.
This is how I do it. You will probably come up with somehting slightly different. In the end, there is no right or wrong, only what works for you.
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fenderfour
Sep 22, 2006, 2:47 PM
Post #27 of 41
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Russian Aiders in action:
http://i51.photobucket.com/...3/fenderfour/Lip.jpg
Route: Liberty Crack Pitch 2, The Lithuanian Lip
Peak: Liberty Bell
Rating: A2, although all of the "difficult" stuff is already fixed
If you were super-sick bad@$$, I think it goes at 5.13b. Good luck with that.
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teth
Sep 25, 2006, 1:17 PM
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At first glance I thought you were fooling around on a boulder problem. Then I noticed which way the bottom of your aid tree was pointing and my perspective shifted. Nice roof! Looks like a lot of fun.
Teth
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artmusicsouth
Sep 25, 2006, 2:31 PM
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My first Russian Aider set:
Here are pic's of my newly constructed set.
This is my Tree Set courtesy of Russ over at FISH.
http://www.rockclimbing.com/...p.cgi?Detailed=78809
Here is a view of my cuff's.
http://www.rockclimbing.com/...p.cgi?Detailed=78810
Another view of the cuffs.
http://www.rockclimbing.com/...p.cgi?Detailed=78811
My hooks. The points need to be filed down. The guy who made them thought I was using them to actually grab the rock with them and thought I would want them sharper to do that. He also dipped them in pasti-dip though i am not sure how well that will hold up.
http://www.rockclimbing.com/...p.cgi?Detailed=78812
And the backside of the hooks. Sorry it is blurry though.
http://www.rockclimbing.com/...p.cgi?Detailed=78813
Teth: I am not so sure about your process. If you don't clip the rope until after you have left the piece and you're standing on the one above you stand the risk of falling further than you should. My understanding is that before you leave the piece you're on you should then clip the rope in. That way when you stand on your next piece, if it should blow you then will not fall as far. Using your system you fall past your previous piece down to the next one. If they are dubious placements this doesn't sound like the way to go.
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fenderfour
Sep 25, 2006, 6:05 PM
Post #30 of 41
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That looks like a great setup. How much did it cost to get the hooks made?
RE: Teth's comment - Since you are standing directly on your piece, you will only fall if the piece fails. If the rope is clipped to the same piece you are standing on, you have gained nothing. The piece fails, both you and the clipped rope fall too. It doesn't really hurt to clip the rope to the piece you are on, but it will add a little to the clusterfutz.
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artmusicsouth
Sep 25, 2006, 6:34 PM
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In reply to: That looks like a great setup. How much did it cost to get the hooks made?
All in all the whole set-up cost around a $115. $50 for the Trees form FISH, $15 for the webbing, $20 to get it sewn, and $30 for the hooks. It cost the guy $15 for material and I threw in another $15.
In reply to: RE: Teth's comment - Since you are standing directly on your piece, you will only fall if the piece fails. If the rope is clipped to the same piece you are standing on, you have gained nothing. The piece fails, both you and the clipped rope fall too. It doesn't really hurt to clip the rope to the piece you are on, but it will add a little to the clusterfutz.
It seemed to me that Teth was saying move from piece A (which rope is not clipped into) to Piece B (which rope is not clipped into either.) Once on Piece B then clip the rope into Piece A. The problem I see is that if you're on B and it blows before you get the rope clipped in A then you're in for a heck of a fall. To reduce the cluster factor that is why I said to clip right before you leave Piece A. That way if B vlows you're not going to fall as far. Clipping Piece A after you leave A would certainly reduce the cluster. I gusee I am not so keen in taking a longer fall unless I must (i.e. A4 baby :D )
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teth
Sep 25, 2006, 6:42 PM
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Actually, I could amend that to “don’t clip the piece you are standing on until either you are off it, or your waist is above it.” If the piece is below your harness, then clipping it will not add any slack to the rope if the piece fails, so the only reason no to clip it at that point is to avoid CF factor. While the piece is still above your harness, clipping it will add slack to the system assuming the piece blows. This is also technically true if you are on another piece and still below your previous piece, but in this case you are hoping both pieces won’t blow.
Yes, you are probably right that it would be better to clip just before you transfer to your new piece rather than just after. If it has held you this long...
I think those hooks will work better than the ones I am using.
Teth
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artmusicsouth
Sep 25, 2006, 7:19 PM
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Your "amendment" makes more sense now. Having the piece at your waist is how I have thought of it.
I can't wait to get out with things. I plan on hitting the gym this week on their beginning lead wall which is vertical. I am going to get the whole mvt. down and get my jugging system set-up, too. I then plan on heading over to Old Rag or Looking Glass to aid-solo some easy routes just to get the hang of the system.
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teth
Sep 26, 2006, 1:28 PM
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Just remember that when you are looking for easy routes you are looking for easy placements without too many ledges to worry about falling on. A 5.11 may be easier and safer than a 5.7 if it has nice contentious cracks with lots of places to put gear.
Teth
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teth
Sep 26, 2006, 1:29 PM
Post #35 of 41
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Just remember that when you are looking for easy routes you are looking for easy placements without too many ledges to worry about falling on. A 5.11 may be easier and safer than a 5.7 if it has nice contentious cracks with lots of places to put gear.
Teth
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fenderfour
Apr 11, 2007, 11:17 PM
Post #36 of 41
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I'm bumping this post to say that I have a set of Uralsport Russian Aiders for sale. I would post it in the Classifieds, but I think a specific group of folks would be looking for this gear.
These are brand new Uralsport Aid cuffs, original titanium hooks and buckles. I paid $60 for them and I'd like to get my money back. E-mail me at fenderfour-AT-yahoo-DOT-com
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kungfuclimber
Jun 6, 2007, 8:46 PM
Post #37 of 41
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Hi everyone,
Just read this (old) thread and there's lots of good stuff going on! Those sharp hooks scare me... I'd rather nice dull hooks for when I mess 
I've been on and off these boards and I've seen comments to my design/article on Russian aiders. I fully agree with people that state that the knots are a bit much and I think it deserves an explanation.
When I made these it was the first prototype. I didn't know exactly what spacing between the foot stirrup and knee cuff I would want. As well I wanted other people to try them and would have to adjust the length for taller / shorter folks. I didn't want to make a bunch of them sewed to different lengths. I also didn't want to have an adjustable buckle since they would slip under the load. A knot was really the only solution I could think of.
The sad truth is although those were prototypes, I haven't made a new pair. Why? Cause these work so damn well! What would I change at this point? I would use flat webbing instead of tubular; it is easier to sew and less bulky. I would also make them to my leg length and sew them to remove the knot. This makes them non adjustable but from my use in them I know I absolutely do not want my bodyweight supported by the back of my knee.
Since making those I've built kneepads right into the kneecuff. As well I've ditched the tied trees and gotten the Fish ones. The tied trees, like the aiders themselves, were only made because there wasn't any alternative. I can say that they work very well. FYI I did modify them by adding a grab loop to the top of the tree. This makes it easier for me to pull myself up on my adjustable daisy.
Cheers everyone!
Jon
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artmusicsouth
Jun 7, 2007, 2:48 PM
Post #38 of 41
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kungfu,
Do you have any pics of the built in knee pad?
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kungfuclimber
Jun 7, 2007, 2:50 PM
Post #39 of 41
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Here are some shots of the kneepads.
You can see I replaced the bottom kneepad strap by the leg cuff:
A closer look:
You still need to do up the leg cuff without the kneepad getting in the way. I solved that problem by making only the inside knee part of the pad permanently attached to the cuff:
You can see the plastic hook from the last picture just hooks in to a loop of 3mm cord. It is attached to the other side of the kneepad by bungy cord. That keeps the kneepad nice and snug to my leg while allowing me to adjust the cuff to different sizes (fat leg, thin leg, etc)
Another angle of the same thing:
Here's a final look at the whole thing. Not that I protect the bungy cord with some tubular webbing where it meets the kneepad.
(This post was edited by kungfuclimber on Jun 8, 2007, 9:43 PM)
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brutusofwyde
Jul 3, 2007, 12:23 AM
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One tree on each daisy is sufficient if you're on straightfoward, easy aid.
For traversing, awkward and extremely overhanging stuff that requires you to get your feet wide apart for leverage or balance, an extra aid tree is needed. When I'm on continuously awkward, balancy reachy traversing extremely overhanging stuff for hours at a time, I like two aid trees on each daisy so I don't have to continually shuffle the "spare" aid tree from one daisy to the other.
Jugging in part depends on the system you use and are comfortable with for ascending ropes to begin with.
But basically, (both jugs connected to you by your daisys of course, as well as backup knots or other backup) you use the aid-trees in place of etriers, clipping the rings to the cuffs with a carabiner at the appropriate desired height. Clipping the rings directly to the cuffs, rather than using the hooks, prevents your cuff from becoming disconnected from the aid tree as you move up. The cuff should have a clip loop near the hook.
Brutus
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moof
Jul 3, 2007, 10:51 PM
Post #41 of 41
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With the Kung-Fu style aiders jugging and leg hauling are readily done by clipping into the top loop of the dogbone of spectra from the foot stirrup to the leg cuff.
You can also clip directly into the foot stirrup depending on your your construct things. The downside to clipping into stirrup is that the hook tends to cause more snagging on things and can be annoying.
I ended up with crappier hooks than Mr. Kung-Fu has. Mine are longer, larger, and rather annoying. Even after hacksawing them shorter and shortening up with a hack saw I still can't do anything about them sticking up to far from my leg cuff. The search continues.
I've yet to need a third aider or extra aid trees. If I'd had them in a couple spots it might have been less awkward, but so far so good.
I like the look of hte knee pads, I gotta make me a set of those!
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