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fmd
Oct 23, 2006, 2:07 PM
Post #76 of 176
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In reply to: In reply to: ...and people actually wonder why I carry a gun. Over-compensating for an extremely small penis?
:lol: :lol: :lol:
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fmd
Oct 23, 2006, 2:13 PM
Post #77 of 176
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In reply to: ...and people actually wonder why I carry a gun.
Do you carry it to school with ya????
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jimdavis
Oct 23, 2006, 3:15 PM
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In reply to: Anyone who knows their guns will get the caliber right by the size of the hole looking at them.
Disarming someone with a handgun is pretty doable if the perp gets close enough to you. I recomend deflecting the weopen with one hand and strikeing the assailnts gun arm and then head with a#4 camalot. If they are not within grappeling distance it is suicide!.
My .357 SIG has the exact same barrel diameter as a 9mm...a 10mm has the exact same barrel diameter as a .40. My point was it's hard to tell from just looking at it...so I wondered why that detail was included.
In reply to: You got your facts wrong with this one. 21 feet
http://www.policeone.com/...iew=94340&vid=102828
In reply to: For more than 20 years now, a concept called the 21-Foot Rule has been a core component in training officers to defend themselves against edged weapons. Originating from research by Salt Lake City trainer Dennis Tueller and popularized by the Street Survival Seminar and the seminal instructional video "Surviving Edged Weapons," the "rule" states that in the time it takes the average officer to recognize a threat, draw his sidearm and fire 2 rounds at center mass, an average subject charging at the officer with a knife or other cutting or stabbing weapon can cover a distance of 21 feet
In reply to: The 21-foot rule, a dogma of law enforcement training, has held that at a distance closer than 21 feet, a suspect with an edged weapon in hand could stab an officer before that officer could fire two shots. However, one researcher found that an individual can cross 30 feet in 2 seconds and suggested that the person could travel 70 yards before succumbing to injuries created by an officer’s firearm.14 According to the FBI, “There is sufficient oxygen within the brain to support full, voluntary action for 10 to 15 seconds after the heart has been destroyed.”
Explain again how I got this one wrong, FMD?
And you don't have to be "lightning quick" to take a gun away from someone. You just have be close.
Jim
edited to fix linking
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alpinismo_flujo
Oct 23, 2006, 3:38 PM
Post #79 of 176
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In reply to: TO THOSE WHO DON'T BELIEVE THIS POST This discussion of whether the post is true or not is getting old...JUST call Perris police department ask them and verify the story for yourselves...that way you can focus on the important issues, not wasting your valuable time questioning whether I,m correct or not. YOU have nothing to lose...just call and then Call Perris police department( south california event khappened on Wed 11th oct 2006 and finished on Mapes and A street intersection ) involved G.FABRIS thats me and B.COLLINS. AFTER YOU"VE DONE THIS PLEASE. 1-POST TO LET OTHERS KNOW THIS IS TRUE 2-IF YOU"VE ACCUSED ME OF BEING A LIAR...BE A BIG ENOUGH PERSON TO POST AN APOLOGY TO ME...IF NOT GO F++K YOURSELVES p.s. Whoever called me Son...I,m not your son or ever will be...wanker
I was going to call the Perris PD just to check and I would rather not go through the red tape. Why don't you just scan your police report and post the pdf image for all to see?
Then would have -
1. POST TO LET OTHERS KNOW THIS IS TRUE
2. GET APOLOGIES FROM ALL OF US THAT ACCUSED YOU OF BEING A LIAR...BECUASE WE ARE BIG ENOUGH TO DO THAT.
BUT until then I'm calling you SON or WANKER.
PS Welcome to RC.COM where we happily FUCK ourselves and everyone else.. :twisted:
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tradmanclimbs
Oct 23, 2006, 4:16 PM
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Jim. you are corect. .356 is 9mm,38 super, .356JLE (bet you don't know that one) .357auto mag. etc. what diference does it make?? any one of them will put a hurt on you. Point is that joe public is gonna identify any full size auto as a nine and it has no bearing on the validity of the story. as for the 21foot rule ther are a lot of ways to read into that. The reaction time that causes problems in law enforcement is that the oficer is trying to asses the danger and level of force required to control the situation. they can't just blast everyone who pisses them off and is within 21 ft. that gives the perp time to close the gap and get withing knife or grappleing distance. A bad guy who wants to kill someone is not worying about the after action report and litigation so his reaction time is going to be a lot faster. The 21ft rule gives law enforcement an established theory to bring up in court when trying to prove that the shooting was justified. the 21 foot rule is simeler to shoot for center of mass to STOP the attack rather than KILL the assailant. These are not absolutes. You might be a bit supprised and dead if you go out and try to prove your 21ft rule in the street. If you seriously feel that the guy is going to pop you, you have to close that gap without being agressive. best case scenario is that you get the guy to put the pistol to your head. If you have the skills you can take the guy from that distance. 21ft and you can be toast in a hurry unless it's hollywood.
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devils_advocate
Oct 23, 2006, 4:48 PM
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In reply to: As for devilsadvocate. Being tagged with expletives by someone who's signature implys child molestation is an honor.
That is horrid that you take "come over to the dark side, we have candy" to have something to do with child molestation. In addition to my previous comment, you're also a sick bastard. It's a joke, you know Star Wars, dark side, etc. Implying that since candy is bad for you, it's probably on the dark side, so wouldn't you rather be over here. Kind of like the age old joke about why would you want to go to heaven, hell is where the party is at. Given my handle on here, devil's advocate, I thought it was fitting, as well as humorous. I could care less that you don't find it amusing, but to relate it to child molestation I think illustrates one of your possibly many issues in addition to racism.
And it was an expletive, one word: asshole. A word that I think is far less offensive than racial slurs. But then again that's me, and I'm not a racist nor a pederast, your results may vary.
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jimdavis
Oct 23, 2006, 5:14 PM
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In reply to: Jim. you are corect. .356 is 9mm,38 super, .356JLE (bet you don't know that one) .357auto mag. etc. what diference does it make?? any one of them will put a hurt on you. Point is that joe public is gonna identify any full size auto as a nine and it has no bearing on the validity of the story. as for the 21foot rule ther are a lot of ways to read into that. The reaction time that causes problems in law enforcement is that the oficer is trying to asses the danger and level of force required to control the situation. they can't just blast everyone who pisses them off and is within 21 ft. that gives the perp time to close the gap and get withing knife or grappleing distance. A bad guy who wants to kill someone is not worying about the after action report and litigation so his reaction time is going to be a lot faster. The 21ft rule gives law enforcement an established theory to bring up in court when trying to prove that the shooting was justified. the 21 foot rule is simeler to shoot for center of mass to STOP the attack rather than KILL the assailant. These are not absolutes. You might be a bit supprised and dead if you go out and try to prove your 21ft rule in the street. If you seriously feel that the guy is going to pop you, you have to close that gap without being agressive. best case scenario is that you get the guy to put the pistol to your head. If you have the skills you can take the guy from that distance. 21ft and you can be toast in a hurry unless it's hollywood.
I agree with pretty much everything your saying. I bring up the 21 foot rule to prove a point...that a gun in someone's hand at close distances doesn't mean everything. Yep, at longer distances you have a really bad chance of disarming and fighting back against someone with a gun. And yes, perhaps my wording of the 21 foot rule wasn't "spot on"....I included it in my post to prove a point. From most of the literature I've read on the 21 foot rule; an attacked who conceals a knife at 21 feet, draws it and begins a rush....will suceed in critically wounding an LEO before they can clear their gun, level it off, and fire a shot or two into center mass. Most training material I'm familiar with recommends going for a knifeor empty hands at that range, then grappling, and creating an opportunity to draw and fire your gun.
A good portion of people that hold others at gunpoint rely on the intimidation factor of a gun in their hand....as a result, they get close enough for you to hand them your wallet, and hold a gun in your face with 1 hand......and if someone tried that on me....that gun's gonna be mine real soon. If I needed to hold an attacker at gun point in a self defense situation....I'm keeping plenty of distance between the two of us.
So what's my point with this? Get some self defense training...learn how to take a gun away from someone, learn how to take a knife away. It's either that, be a pacifist and let criminals continue to think they can get away with anything...or carry your own gun, and be a faster/ better shot.
This type of thing can happen anywhere...I'm just hoping that people can identify with some of what I'm saying, and get more motivated to defend themselves.
Cheers,
Jim
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tradmanclimbs
Oct 23, 2006, 6:16 PM
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Jim. mostly agree with your last post as well (what a love fest :?) LEOs are horribly slow clearing leather. retention security holsters don't mix w/ fast draws. On the other hand with a weopen that is allready drawn and aimed at you the reaction time to fire that weopen is arroud .20 sec. If you try to rush someone who is ready to blast you @21ft you are SOL. You got to be close. If the perp one hands it and sticks it to your head it's as good as it"s gonna get. a bit trickier and more dangerous if the pistol is at waist/chest level. A knife is much more dangerous to fight at this distance. so is a rifle or shotgun.
Again, back to carrying a self defense pistol when climbing.
#1 what do you do with it when actually climbing?
#2 what do you do with it when entering a national park?
#3 what do you do with it when entering a state with strict gun laws?
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fmd
Oct 23, 2006, 6:52 PM
Post #84 of 176
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In reply to: In reply to: Anyone who knows their guns will get the caliber right by the size of the hole looking at them.
Disarming someone with a handgun is pretty doable if the perp gets close enough to you. I recomend deflecting the weopen with one hand and strikeing the assailnts gun arm and then head with a#4 camalot. If they are not within grappeling distance it is suicide!. My .357 SIG has the exact same barrel diameter as a 9mm...a 10mm has the exact same barrel diameter as a .40. My point was it's hard to tell from just looking at it...so I wondered why that detail was included. In reply to: You got your facts wrong with this one. 21 feet In reply to: For more than 20 years now, a concept called the 21-Foot Rule has been a core component in training officers to defend themselves against edged weapons. Originating from research by Salt Lake City trainer Dennis Tueller and popularized by the Street Survival Seminar and the seminal instructional video "Surviving Edged Weapons," the "rule" states that in the time it takes the average officer to recognize a threat, draw his sidearm and fire 2 rounds at center mass, an average subject charging at the officer with a knife or other cutting or stabbing weapon can cover a distance of 21 feet In reply to: The 21-foot rule, a dogma of law enforcement training, has held that at a distance closer than 21 feet, a suspect with an edged weapon in hand could stab an officer before that officer could fire two shots. However, one researcher found that an individual can cross 30 feet in 2 seconds and suggested that the person could travel 70 yards before succumbing to injuries created by an officer’s firearm.14 According to the FBI, “There is sufficient oxygen within the brain to support full, voluntary action for 10 to 15 seconds after the heart has been destroyed.” And you don't have to be "lightning quick" to take a gun away from someone. You just have be close. Jim edited to fix linking
Go back to your comment..Police are trained to kill an aggressor with a weapon when they're inside of 21 feet, and not complying. ...This is wrong..Police are not trained in that. What your link is too, is how long it (in feet) it takes for some one to draw on someone... And no, you dont have to be "quick as lighting" to take a gun off of someone. I was quoting someone else.
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jimdavis
Oct 23, 2006, 6:54 PM
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In reply to: Jim. mostly agree with your last post as well (what a love fest :?) LEOs are horribly slow cleasring leather. retention holsters don't mix w/ fast draws on the other hand a weopen that is drawn and aimed at you the reaction time to fire that weopen is arroud .20 sec. If you try to rush someone who is ready to blast you @21ft you are SOL. You got to be close. if the perp one hands it and sticks it to your head it's as good as it"s gonna get. a bit trickier and more dangerous if the pistol is at waist level. a knife is much more dangerous to fight at this distance. so is a rifle or shotgun. Again, back to carrying a self defense pistol when climbing. #1 what do you do with it when actually climbing? #2 what do you do with it when entering a national park? #3 what do you do with it when entering a state with strict gun laws?
I agree completly that you don't have a chance at 21 feet with some one who's already drawn and leveled their weapon. Never debated that. I'm just talking close quarters, where most armed robberies occur.
And your deffinitly right, waist level disarms are something I have no faith in performing myself. Rifle/ shotgun disarms....there are some out there that work well...all that I know of are well within arms reach. You really just have to get inside of the muzzle and deliver an attack. Say you have a longgun pointed at your back, arms up....spin to their inside and deflect their weapon with your outside hand and deliver a hit to their throat with your other hand, or just go for a strike of opportunity....nothing wrong with a kick to the nuts if their stance permits it.
So, in regards to your questions...1) My Glock is pretty small....IF i was in an area where I percieved a substantial threat....I either wouldn't climb there, or I'd wear that f*cker on my hip, chambered.
2) Natl. Parks....I'm a little fuzzy on carrying here....I don't know of any Natl Parks where I'm really worried about this....but I always have a 3.75" tactical style, assisted-oppening knife IWB....I'd need an opportunity to draw it, and be at close range...but I always have it on me...even when climbing. When I reach for it, it looks like I'm hiking my pants up...and it's been missed in a pat down before (by accident, went to a club and forgot I had it with me)
3) What to do in a state with strict gun laws? Lock it in my glove box, and rely on my awarness and judgement. Asside from getting pulled over for speeding...there's nothing really that would give an officer reason to search a locked glove box. If they do search, I'm gonna request a second officer be present, for them to state what their reasonable suspission is to search a locked glove box....and when they are going to go ahead with their seach, inform them of what is inside the glove box, show them my CCW for any state which I have it for...and deal with the rest as it comes.
A good lawyer could probably get the finding of the weapon dismissed if the search wasn't justified. Being that I don't have drugs on me, or in my vehicle, don't behave in a violent mannor, or have loaded clips on my dashboard....I wouldn't be too worried about it.
Mass and DE are the only states I would travel in where I'd be concerned about that. Neither would I be climbing in. Oh, and I won't live in Cali, or DC because of their gun laws.
So that's my take on it....FWIW.
Cheers,
Jim
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tradmanclimbs
Oct 23, 2006, 9:07 PM
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Jim. glove box is aBIG no no. especialy if you are dumb enough to keep licence and reg. in there with the pistol :roll: weopen must be in a locked bag, seperate from ammo( i allways went with diferent compartment of shooting bag) NOT in the passenger compartment of the vehicle. GLOVE BOX IS PASSENGER COMPARTMENT AND THE GUN WILL BE RULED CONCELED INSTEAD OF IN TRANSIT!! regardless of if it is locked in the glove box or trunk it is usless for self defense. Burglary is your #1 crime threat at any climbing area so unless you plan on bringing that gun up the climb with you what are you going to do with the firearm? leave in the truck so that some skumbag gets a firearm when they smash your window? leave it at the base of the climb in your pack where in can get stolen? If you are going to carry you have to have control of your weopen at all times and the only way to accomplish that is to carry it on your person. leaveing an unsecured firearm in your pack at the base of the climb would be so irresponsible. what if some kid fished through your pack to look at that cool climbing gear and accidently killed someone? I used to swim at a lake all the time in my carrying days and it was a dilema. leave the pistol unsecured under my clothes and towl while swimming? leave it in the car in the parking lot ? If I am going to need it for self defense i am going to be most vunreable getting out of the water or while returning to the vehicle. carying is just too much of APITA... I have been on quite a few road trips where a firearm would have felt pretty good at times but in the long run it is a liability. If i was climbing in a state/country where I was legal for conceled carry and it was a high crime area like mexico I might be tempted to carry a stainless Rossi 9 shot .22LR wheel gun w/ 4" barrel & pachmier grips. wicked fast and accuriate. but light enough to carry up a climb if you had to. I am usualuy pretty parinoid in grizzly country but no way I am dragging a .357 up a big hard climb. I Feel that realisticly the chances of going down on a firearms charge, getting the firearm stolen or haveing an AD situation far out number the chances of being a hero and saveing the day.. There are no places in the NE that I climb where I feel the need to be strapped and it is leagaly just too much of a risk to bring a gun on a road trip. If i lived in WYO, AK or MT I would most likly carry a bear gun in the backcountry.
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sidepull
Oct 23, 2006, 9:29 PM
Post #87 of 176
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In reply to: In reply to: TO THOSE WHO DON'T BELIEVE THIS POST This discussion of whether the post is true or not is getting old...JUST call Perris police department ask them and verify the story for yourselves...that way you can focus on the important issues, not wasting your valuable time questioning whether I,m correct or not. YOU have nothing to lose...just call and then Call Perris police department( south california event khappened on Wed 11th oct 2006 and finished on Mapes and A street intersection ) involved G.FABRIS thats me and B.COLLINS. AFTER YOU"VE DONE THIS PLEASE. 1-POST TO LET OTHERS KNOW THIS IS TRUE 2-IF YOU"VE ACCUSED ME OF BEING A LIAR...BE A BIG ENOUGH PERSON TO POST AN APOLOGY TO ME...IF NOT GO F++K YOURSELVES p.s. Whoever called me Son...I,m not your son or ever will be...wanker I was going to call the Perris PD just to check and I would rather not go through the red tape. Why don't you just scan your police report and post the pdf image for all to see? Then would have - 1. POST TO LET OTHERS KNOW THIS IS TRUE 2. GET APOLOGIES FROM ALL OF US THAT ACCUSED YOU OF BEING A LIAR...BECUASE WE ARE BIG ENOUGH TO DO THAT. BUT until then I'm calling you SON or WANKER. PS Welcome to RC.COM where we happily f--- ourselves and everyone else.. :twisted:
Agreed, you post the report - I'm more than happy to apologize. Or post the phone number of the police station.
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jimdavis
Oct 23, 2006, 9:59 PM
Post #88 of 176
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In reply to: Jim. glove box is aBIG no no. especialy if you are dumb enough to keep licence and reg. in there with the pistol :roll: weopen must be in a locked bag, seperate from ammo( i allways went with diferent compartment of shooting bag) NOT in the passenger compartment of the vehicle. GLOVE BOX IS PASSENGER COMPARTMENT AND THE GUN WILL BE RULED CONCELED INSTEAD OF IN TRANSIT!! regardless of if it is locked in the glove box or trunk it is usless for self defense.
However, the contents of your glove box or trunk are not subject to a standard search by a LEO...they have to have a damn good reason to search these areas of you vehicle. If the glove box is locked, they need a warrent or reasonable suspession to search it...neither will they have in a normal traffic stop. I have an SUV, and the glove box is the most secure part for me to keep a firearm. That's a defense that you could probably win with in court....officer, I thought it best to keep it out of sight and in a locked container rather than in an obvious pistol case in plain sight through my SUV windows.
It is out of reach for most encounters...but short of getting a CCW for every state you travel in...there isn't much better you can do, legally.
Out of curiosity...what if you own a pickup truck? Where then can you store a firearm for transport? What about a motorcycle?
And if someone breaks into my car and finds a locked glove box....I kinda doubt they'd spend the time to break into that.
Jim
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tradmanclimbs
Oct 23, 2006, 10:22 PM
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If I just busted a window to rob you and ther are no goodies I would bust that plastic glove box open in a big hurry. just the fact that it is locked tells me there is something in there. I lock my wallet in there and that certainly does not fool me into thinking it won't get stolen. your best bet is a custom conceled steel compartment. All the cops i talked to when i was on the Comp circut were adamant about NOT in the Glove box. Much of your argument is about getting away with it. that is just not good enough for me. get in a wreck in NY or MA and you get a year in prison on top of your hospital bills. run up against a racist cop in a bad mood,,, They streach those rules and cover for each other. had a cop tell me with great relish about makeing a yuppie in a 3 three piece suit get out of their beemer @ gunpoint and lie face down for a frisking in the freezeing slush. 3 piece suit and all. the crime? being a wise ass on a day thet the cop was in a bad mood.. In MA it is a felony to leave a gun unnatended in a vehicle even if you have a carry permit. I break pleanty of laws but there is a big diference rolling a stop sign or a felony gun rap...
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flygiles
Oct 23, 2006, 11:19 PM
Post #90 of 176
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I had decided to not post anymore but here's a message for
Alpinismo_flujo and anyone else who wants more information
Here's the details for Police report...Perris tell me that it can take up to 2 weeks for the incident to be written-I'm currently in out of the Country so presently unable to go there in person and get report to scan and post online, although you should be able to contact Perris valley Police to confirm what happened.(full report should be out by 25th latest).
Here's the details you'll need
Perris Station
403 E. 4th
Perris, CA 92570
(951) 940-6200
When you call the number it will give you an automated telephone system...press "0" to talk to operater.
Crime# is PE06284102
Incident occured on wed 11th Oct 06, and ended at mapes/a street intersection, and involved G.fabris(Me)and another climber.
If they won't confirm details ask for deputy Nan Carrow (The deputy involved)and let them know that you are a rock-climber and that I have given you these details, hopefully you can then get confirmed that it all started at "Big Rock", (they may not release any other private details) but should verify the basics for safety.
No apology is needed, after being held hostage and trying to post online to protect others and getting bad "attitude" I was frustrated-I have no desire to share my personal experiences with anyone but felt in the need of safety to share my story, I was not aware of the way the forum process works and to be honest I'll probably never post again.
Also other questions people said...I found out it was a 9mm after...I,m from Europe so not used to guns, although I confirmed this to be true after looking at pictures of guns, and it appeared loaded as kidnapped pulled back slide.
To those who make fun...thankyou the "10 tips" post made me smile, to those who were unpleasant i hope you never find youselves in the same situation...
Kind regards to all (except that dickhead Curt)
GF
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flygiles
Oct 23, 2006, 11:19 PM
Post #91 of 176
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Registered: Oct 19, 2006
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I had decided to not post anymore but here's a message for
Alpinismo_flujo and anyone else who wants more information
Here's the details for Police report...Perris tell me that it can take up to 2 weeks for the incident to be written-I'm currently in out of the Country so presently unable to go there in person and get report to scan and post online, although you should be able to contact Perris valley Police to confirm what happened.(full report should be out by 25th latest).
Here's the details you'll need
Perris Station
403 E. 4th
Perris, CA 92570
(951) 940-6200
When you call the number it will give you an automated telephone system...press "0" to talk to operater.
Crime# is PE06284102
Incident occured on wed 11th Oct 06, and ended at mapes/a street intersection, and involved G.fabris(Me)and another climber.
If they won't confirm details ask for deputy Nan Carrow (The deputy involved)and let them know that you are a rock-climber and that I have given you these details, hopefully you can then get confirmed that it all started at "Big Rock", (they may not release any other private details) but should verify the basics for safety.
No apology is needed, after being held hostage and trying to post online to protect others and getting bad "attitude" I was frustrated-I have no desire to share my personal experiences with anyone but felt in the need of safety to share my story, I was not aware of the way the forum process works and to be honest I'll probably never post again.
Also other questions people said...I found out it was a 9mm after...I,m from Europe so not used to guns, although I confirmed this to be true after looking at pictures of guns, and it appeared loaded as kidnapped pulled back slide.
To those who make fun...thankyou the "10 tips" post made me smile, to those who were unpleasant i hope you never find youselves in the same situation...
Kind regards to all (except that dickhead Curt)
GF
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devils_advocate
Oct 23, 2006, 11:20 PM
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In reply to: If I just busted a window to rob you and ther are no goodies I would bust that plastic glove box open in a big hurry. just the fact that it is locked tells me there is something in there. I lock my wallet in there and that certainly does not fool me into thinking it won't get stolen. your best bet is a custom conceled steel compartment.
And then rig up your glovebox to emit a large dose of pepperspray when opened, lock it and never touch the thing. :twisted:
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socalclimber
Oct 24, 2006, 12:23 AM
Post #93 of 176
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socalclimber wrote:
I can't figure out why people find this hard to believe. Visit the area and you'll see why this is entirely possible. Especially if they were alone. I'm not surprised in the least bit.
Jim wrote:
I get a hoot out of the fact that people think crime only happens in areas with high rates of unemployment and a low average incomes. Or a higher concentration of one ethnic group or another.
Wow Jim, I made a very simple statement having been to the area, and that I wasn't surprised this happened. I could care less what the ethnic background of the person who did this is. You then instantly build your own misguided judgement on my statement. Very clever of you.
Truth be told, you have a far greater chance of getting held up at gun point climbing at a place like Big Rock, Stony Point and host of other areas in the middle of large cities than you do climbing inside Joshua Tree National Park, Yosemite, Red Rocks or whatever wilderness areas. It's not real complicated.
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hess
Oct 24, 2006, 1:32 AM
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OP wrote:
In reply to: When you call the number it will give you an automated telephone system...press "0" to talk to operater. Crime# is PE06284102 Incident occured on wed 11th Oct 06, and ended at mapes/a street intersection, and involved G.fabris(Me)and another climber.
In reply to: If they won't confirm details ask for deputy Nan Carrow (The deputy involved)..... you can then get confirmed that it all started at "Big Rock", ...
I called the number and got a phone sex talk line, went ahead and asked for Nan, who apparently, 'has been waiting for someone with a "Big Rock" to call', charged me $50!!!
just posting to warn others
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flygiles
Oct 24, 2006, 1:40 AM
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Seroiusly people the info is correct...you won't find the mother, sister, wife or mother of hess :)
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jimdavis
Oct 24, 2006, 1:43 AM
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In reply to: socalclimber wrote: I can't figure out why people find this hard to believe. Visit the area and you'll see why this is entirely possible. Especially if they were alone. I'm not surprised in the least bit. Jim wrote: I get a hoot out of the fact that people think crime only happens in areas with high rates of unemployment and a low average incomes. Or a higher concentration of one ethnic group or another. Wow Jim, I made a very simple statement having been to the area, and that I wasn't surprised this happened. I could care less what the ethnic background of the person who did this is. You then instantly build your own misguided judgement on my statement. Very clever of you. Truth be told, you have a far greater chance of getting held up at gun point climbing at a place like Big Rock, Stony Point and host of other areas in the middle of large cities than you do climbing inside Joshua Tree National Park, Yosemite, Red Rocks or whatever wilderness areas. It's not real complicated.
There were some sentiments to this effect floating around elsewhere in the thread...and plenty of people think that sort of thing....when I got to your post it was easy enough to just quote that, and that alone, rather than snip apart multiple other posts.
A lot of people ask me why I own a handgun in suburban PA, and central ME...my response is that crime happens everywhere, and you never know when. Seeing your post made it easy to make my point here, and I thought it was worth putting out there considering the subject matter.
Hope you didn't think I was just picking on you personally, or anything.
Cheers,
Jim
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socalclimber
Oct 24, 2006, 1:51 AM
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No problems Jim. I understand the sentiment that has been oozing around here concerning racial issues, they are just not mine. Hey, I got robbed when I was 20 years old in Hollywood by a white guy in broad daylight with a gun, in the middle of a parking lot full of people. It happens.
My only point was that it's more likely in city areas than wilderness. Makes no difference who does it.
Sorry if I was a bit salty. Thanks for your response.
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paganmonkeyboy
Oct 24, 2006, 2:38 AM
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wow
no fucking shit. i'm over at the taco for a week or two and this reminds me what i'm missing over here.
i called the number. it is the perris police dept. business office is closed, so we can call back manana. anyone else call ? anyone ? come on, i can't be the only one with a real sack, can I ?
glad no one was shot. glad you posted. sorry some gave you so much shit instead of the common decency people can show when they get their head out their ass and don't feel like they have to puff up and be huge. i'd climb with you if you come to utah and my shoulder gets put back together (again, fuck...)
my friend used to keep a pocket 25 on him at all times - he finally used it to shoot himself. i have somewhat mixed feelings on carrying a piece myself, but i sorta want a police special 45 like one i saw once - small gun, Big Hole. BIG. and if you are gonna get a 9, don't settle for a cheap knock off - another friend had one that jammed when you looked at it funny - worthless...
i can't believe in 7 pages i'm the only one that posted on calling - maybe i missed something ?
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flygiles
Oct 24, 2006, 5:04 AM
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I will be back in the Usa in November, so if no-one has got details by then I will return to Perris just to get the police report to confirm (although I REALLY do hope that someone has contacted them and posted before then to verify my story as I REALLY don't feel like going back there).
Thankyou for the kind words paganmonkeyboy I'm really glad that no-one was shot especially my climbing partner (who bravely risked his life to help me in a hostage situation), if our paths cross I,ll be honoured to climb with you, Utah looks a beautiful landscape.
I'm not sure whether to carry a gun now or not...i certainly don't want to react, but to take some time to relax, process the whole experience and make an informed choice.
GF
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jimdavis
Oct 24, 2006, 6:05 AM
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In reply to: I will be back in the Usa in November, so if no-one has got details by then I will return to Perris just to get the police report to confirm (although I REALLY do hope that someone has contacted them and posted before then to verify my story as I REALLY don't feel like going back there). Thankyou for the kind words paganmonkeyboy I'm really glad that no-one was shot especially my climbing partner (who bravely risked his life to help me in a hostage situation), if our paths cross I,ll be honoured to climb with you, Utah looks a beautiful landscape. I'm not sure whether to carry a gun now or not...i certainly don't want to react, but to take some time to relax, process the whole experience and make an informed choice. GF
Well, on the bright side, lightning seldom strikes the same place twice!
In the situation you were in...do you think being armed would have helped? Would you have been able to draw on the perp? Would it have been with you in the first place? Would you have pulled the trigger on someone rather than hand over your wallet?....there's a lot to think about when it comes to this shit.
Like a good friend of mine who carries told me "you gotta know how to get your ass beat with a gun in your pocket...sometimes an ass kicking is just that...and you just gotta take it." Maybe you think the guy just wants money and has no intention of harming you...maybe you just need to give him your wallet and let it go at that (after all we're climbers...what the hell do we have in their besides bar receipts and food stamps?)
There's a lot of stuff to hash out before you can commit to carrying a gun....but in the mean time, I'd really recommend taking a course or two on street self defense. Something that teaches knife and gun disarms. Spend some time at a local range...rent a gun and get a feel for it. You don't have to carry a gun by any means, that's my choice....doesn't have to be yours.....but knowing how to take one away from a perp, how to opperate a variety of models (1911, Glock, Sig, Beretta, double action revolvers)...learn where the safetys are, the mag release, decockers, grip safetys, etc. If you can take a gun away and put it to use yourself, you'll feel a lot less like a victim should the time ever come again.
One totally legit, and usefull weapons around is this...
http://www.surefire.com/...rfnbr/1132/sesent/00
http://www.surefire.com/...ontent/e2d_full2.jpg
It's a tiny ass little flashlight, with a metal body...capable of blinding the shit outta someone, even in daytime (to an extent)...that has a crowned striking surface on the top and bottom. That'll fit in your fist, acts like a roll of quarters when you throw a punch....bring it down like a hammer on someone, and it'll instantly bruse their bones and draw blood. It weighs less than 4oz's...it fits in your palm...and it's usefull for everyday tasks.
If you get that thing out in your hand, hit someone in the eyes with the beam...they'll be seeing a big white cloud for a bit...smack em on the head with a hammerfist blow, and they'll being seeing stars for even longer. At night time, when you get a perp in the eyes with it, they'll be unable to aim their gun for a while, giving you an opportunity to get into grappling range and let em know what's up. And there's no permits to worry about, no laws that prevent it from carrying it anywhere...etc.
Glad to hear you wanna put some time in before you make a decission though...that's good to hear. My ass would be at the range now shooting at the 5yrd line till I ran out of money and ammo.
Best of luck, whatever you decide to do.
Jim
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