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dripdry
Oct 23, 2006, 8:30 PM
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Alright, I'm not exactly a beginner (though aren't we all in a zen kind of way?) but I thought this question would fit well here. It's a question about terminology which came up climbing in Muir Valley at The Red this weekend.
I repeatedly attempted to start "Special K" and couldn't seem to get the first move, which is kind of bouldery (as the guide says). Each time, I lowered down and started over. After about 4 tries, I went right up, nabbed the first move and proceeded to finish the climb with no takes or rests, and although I'm used to attempting that grade at Devil's Lake, I was quite proud to finish my first climb of that grade.
So, does this count as a red point? I certainly think so.
A climbing partner was there and said "No" because I fell on it on the first move and retried it, but she persisted even when I explained that it would have been a flash or onsight if I had not fallen at all, but is a red point because I did it from start to finish eventually without falling.
I know this is a pointless terminology argument, but I'd like to set the record straight (she's on this board :-) )
Thanks,
David
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granite_grrl
Oct 23, 2006, 9:48 PM
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If you did the entire climb cleanly, but have attempted the climb or sections of the climb before the successful attempt, its a redpoint.
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fracture
Oct 24, 2006, 12:44 AM
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I don't understand where the confusion came from---did she think it didn't count because you didn't untie between tries or something like that?
(It's definitely a redpoint, by the way.)
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rockguide
Oct 24, 2006, 12:57 AM
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Redpoint.
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jajen
Oct 24, 2006, 1:32 AM
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Definitely redpoint IF you lead it. Otherwise, TR redpoint.
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overlord
Oct 24, 2006, 8:03 AM
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if you led it, its a redpoint. she must be a bit confused :wink:
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jt512
Oct 24, 2006, 8:40 AM
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In reply to: she must be a bit confused :wink:
That's inconceivable. Since when has anybody on this site been confused?
Jay
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epoch
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Oct 24, 2006, 11:02 AM
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In reply to: In reply to: she must be a bit confused :wink: That's inconceivable. Since when has anybody on this site been confused? Jay
I'm so lost with the direction that this thread is going. :?: :lol:
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daithi
Oct 24, 2006, 12:27 PM
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You should have asked her to elaborate what she meant at the time. But don't worry all is not lost. Since she is on this board she has a chance now to explain herself.
In reply to: I know this is a pointless terminology argument |
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chossmonkey
Oct 24, 2006, 2:21 PM
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If you started from the ground and lead it, redpoint.
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fracture
Oct 24, 2006, 4:54 PM
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In reply to: In reply to: I know this is a pointless terminology argument There is nothing as sacrosanct as terminology in any sport!
Huh? Why?
Terminology doesn't really matter at all, if you ask me.
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reese_7
Oct 25, 2006, 1:17 AM
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Well, I guess I am just a beginner (not in the Zen kind of way) :wink:
I'm the confused partner.... I thought he had to do the route with out falling at all during that attempt. Next time I'll ask him to untie between attempts, lol :twisted: But, I did concede that he could call it a red point if he wanted to. I try not to focus too much on this type of stuff.
Thanks for the terminology education.
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jajen
Oct 25, 2006, 2:10 AM
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OK - I'm confused. Didn't your partner climb the route from ground to anchors with no falls or tension on the 4th or 5th attempt? As long as they started from the ground, regardless of whether he untied or not, it would still be a redpoint if he led it.
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reese_7
Oct 25, 2006, 3:16 AM
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He did go from the ground to the anchors without taking or falling, but he did not lead it.
I wasn't serious about having him untie, that was a joke :lol:
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dripdry
Oct 25, 2006, 3:24 AM
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In absolute fairness, I TR'd it :roll: The only TR the whole weekend. :(
So, it's not a TRUE redpoint, no.
I have no idea why I'm hooked on the redpoint thing... I guess I get it from Jeff, wherever he is on this forum. Hey Jeff, you out there?! It's all your fault, and I'm gonna come down there to Southern Illinois and climb soon and... um... I'll get you and your little cat, too! Or something.
ok, rant off, I promise. Jeff's cool.
Don't mind me.
Move along, move along...
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rockguide
Oct 25, 2006, 12:56 PM
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Aw, withholding key information. Thanks for that. :roll:
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blueeyedclimber
Oct 25, 2006, 1:40 PM
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Saying you've redpointed it, implies that you've led it. Sorry, but it's nothing more than a TR ascent.
Josh
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redlegrangerone
Oct 25, 2006, 3:50 PM
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Yes, we have a new member of the noob club. Everyone forgets a bit of KEY info once in awhile. :lol:
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fracture
Oct 25, 2006, 4:35 PM
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The word "redpoint" often implies leading. But for that matter, even today, it also often implies hanging your own quickdraws. The simple fact is that there is more than one sense of the term in active use. Another sense means that you practiced the moves before linking them.
In light of this mess, I'd recommend using the word "send" or "link". There's too much irrelevant historical baggage in the term "redpoint".
But as I said earlier: terminology doesn't really matter. Whatever you want to call it, toproping is a perfectly good tactic for hard sport climbing, but, aside from the first 4-8 meters or so (stick-clipped), it is only rarely the best strategy for doing a route. Leading is usually significantly easier (or at least more convenient). For this reason, it's absolutely crucial to be able to climb on lead without being excessively timid and scared---to climb the same way you climb on toprope---if you want to sport climb at higher than a pre-beginner level.
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devils_advocate
Oct 25, 2006, 4:38 PM
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Haven't you learned anything from this site? Next time she says something like that that you know is false, fling some poo at her.
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reese_7
Oct 25, 2006, 5:07 PM
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Hey now! If anyone is going to get poo thrown at them, it's you! :twisted:
I personally don't care what he calls it, a title doesn't change a thing, so it really has little value.
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soyshadymilkman
Oct 25, 2006, 5:49 PM
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Congrats on sending the route on TR but given that it was in Muir Valley, I wouldn't count it as being as hard a grade as it's listed, that area's notoriously soft in it's ratings. Not trying to dog on you at all, just dogging on Muir Valley.
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devils_advocate
Oct 25, 2006, 9:42 PM
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In reply to: Sorry, but it's nothing more than a TR ascent
In reply to: Congrats on sending the route on TR but given that it was in Muir Valley, I wouldn't count it as being as hard a grade as it's listed, that area's notoriously soft in it's ratings.
Be sure to tune in next week, when the sister of the roomate of the cousin of the belayer reports that she heard that he hung on the rope during the ascent and the send is finally and completely revoked. :roll:
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chossmonkey
Oct 25, 2006, 10:15 PM
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In reply to: In reply to: Sorry, but it's nothing more than a TR ascent In reply to: Congrats on sending the route on TR but given that it was in Muir Valley, I wouldn't count it as being as hard a grade as it's listed, that area's notoriously soft in it's ratings. Be sure to tune in next week, when the sister of the roomate of the cousin of the belayer reports that she heard that he hung on the rope during the ascent and the send is finally and completely revoked. :roll:
What an unbelievable saga.
:lol:
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epoch
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Oct 26, 2006, 12:43 AM
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In reply to: In absolute fairness, I TR'd it :roll: The only TR the whole weekend. :( So, it's not a TRUE redpoint, no. I have no idea why I'm hooked on the redpoint thing... I guess I get it from Jeff, wherever he is on this forum. Hey Jeff, you out there?! It's all your fault, and I'm gonna come down there to Southern Illinois and climb soon and... um... I'll get you and your little cat, too! Or something. ok, rant off, I promise. Jeff's cool. Don't mind me. Move along, move along...
This thread is useless.
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