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kolby
Jun 22, 2001, 7:47 AM
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Hi everyone this is Kolby Jardine, most of you may know my uncle Ray for inventing the Spring Loaded Camming Devices. I recently moved to Durango, CO and started trad climbing around the area. I believe I've mastered the techniques of placing gear and lead climbing but I'm very confused on getting back down. When one climbs an unbolted route, what do you use for a rapell anchor? Do you allways have to leave slings behind for the rappel? Also, I'm pretty freaked out about having to untie from the rope in order to loop it through the rapell anchors. Does anyone know the best strategy for doing this?? Thanks a ton!!
-Kolby Jardine
PS- I'm allways looking for people to climb with around Durango so email me at nanomanipulator@yahoo.com if you're interested.
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ramylson
Jul 12, 2001, 5:30 AM
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Truthfully, I'm not sure on routes where you don't actually top out. From everything that I've seen where this is the case, there are usually a few bolts for the rappels. Other then that, I can't fill you in more. Sorry.
As far as actually setting the rappel, when I untie from the rope, I actually set a really small belay to back me up. In order to be timely, I'll set a few pieces brining them together with a piece of webbing, then tying into it through a water knot. This way you're backed-up, making life a bit easier.
When you untie, make sure you pull-up a bit of slack, tie it to something (I happen to use the clove-hitch), then untie. Otherwise, if you drop the end, you'll be waiting for someone else to climb up to you. Not fun..
If you really feel uncomfortable with this entire thing, it's definitely something you should practice close to the deck, just to run though everything so you understand it.
Once again, making your life easier..
Good Luck!
"ramylson"
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kagunkie
Jul 13, 2001, 5:58 PM
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Sorry but Im going to have to recommend against that last suggestion for these reasons. First, running the rope directly over the tree will damage the tree when the rope is pulled. Ever see the groves on trees that are used for this, it'll eventually kill the tree leaving us with no rappell tree. Second, its usually harder to pull the rope and may get stuck easier leaving us with a sticky situation especially if its just before dark and your thirty miles from home and you have to be at work at six AM the next day or worse yet you still have another hundred feet to go to the ground! Allways use a sling, hopefully of at least ninesixteenths super tape I prefer one inch tubular webbing (dark color so the bird watchers wont be offended) with rap rings (always use two) they are cheap and probably will be there the next time you want to rap. There is one situation where you might use the rope directly on the tree "an emergency". Always carry at least one tied sling (two rings arent a bad idea either or you can leave a biner) with you and youll find its very handy sometimes. Please take this advise to heart and dont harm our rap trees. Also remember its not a good idea to pass the rope directly through the sling it too will be damaged by the rope, leaving a "time bomb" for others. Be safe stay alive = have fun !!!!!
[ This Message was edited by: kagunkie on 2001-07-13 11:13 ]
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climb512
Jul 13, 2001, 6:26 PM
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clip into the rap anchors with a daisy chain first(2 locking biners) then untie and set your rope through atc for your rap. i usually leave rap anchors behind its cheap enough as kagunkie said 2 rings and a couple feet of webbing. hopefully some loser wont take them and they will leave them for others.
[ This Message was edited by: climb512 on 2001-07-13 11:41 ]
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coach
Jul 13, 2001, 11:08 PM
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Also agree with Kagunkie, rap rings run $2-$3 and webbing is cheap. I have used rap stations left by others (check them first for wear) and have left one where I had to. Small price to pay to protect yourself and the trees.
Climb On
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krillen
Jul 19, 2001, 7:58 PM
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Some rat bastard nicked our rap rings last weekend. between the last rap and, packing up and walking back to the rap station. And it wasn't climbers either. Coninisidently the next day we saw more than a few trees with rope burn, one from cavers setting up a top anchor. That's one way to get us all banned from crags guys.
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kolby
Jul 27, 2001, 5:38 PM
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Hey thanks for the info guys. The clove hitch is a great way to prevent dropping the rope after you untie. I finally overcame my fears and am now the king of rapelling!!
-Kolby
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sungam
Oct 31, 2006, 10:05 PM
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Personally, I try to use trees and threads as much as possible, to save gear, but if there's none of that going, then it's gotta be gear. Don't be stingy, get the most bomber shit you can get, after all you don't get a backup anchor, and the next thing to catch you is the ground. As for untying, I usually set up the equalised anchor whilst hanging, (prussik back-up, of course) then clip direct into this, then start threading it while my 2nd is rapping.
Well, it's holloween so what better time to revive the oldest unlocked thread?
-Magnus
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alexmac
Nov 1, 2006, 1:24 PM
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In reply to: Personally, I try to use trees and threads as much as possible, to save gear, but if there's none of that going, then it's gotta be gear. Don't be stingy, get the most bomber s--- you can get, after all you don't get a backup anchor, and the next thing to catch you is the ground. As for untying, (snipped rest ....)
Using trees is bad karma on many levels and really not such a good idea. Tube webbing and two rap rings cost less than replacing a tree. Trees in tthe cliffs at my local lime stone wall are some of the oldest trees East of the Rockies and they look like tiny dead things do to there very slow growth.
Mind you where do you end up wrapping the webbing, around a tree 99% of the time...
Can't win....
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amylovesred
Nov 1, 2006, 7:05 PM
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No one has mentioned walking down... depending on where you are climbing there might be an easy scamble down near by!
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blueeyedclimber
Nov 1, 2006, 7:51 PM
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Ways to Get Down summed up and in one place:
1) Walk-off. The safest (usually) alternative.
2)rappel on preestablished bolted anchor.
3) rappel on preestablished natural anchor (usually webbing w/rap rings around a tree).
4) rappel off your own gear. Sucks to leave gear, but if you have no alternative, it beats the following ways.
5) down climbing. You'll have to leave something anyways (unless you choose to solo it), and may not be possible.
6) Jump off. I don't reccomend this one you crazy SOB.
7) Falling. I don't recommend this either, but if it happens you probably didn't have a choice. And may God have mercy on your soul.
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steady_climbing
Nov 21, 2006, 8:52 PM
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I have very limited trad experience; however, I have a question.. If someone was to establish a new line, could that person not carry a hand-held drill and bolt in an anchor or rappell point?
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steady_climbing
Nov 21, 2006, 8:58 PM
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I understand the DO NOT..But, once again this is a hypothetical question.. Lets say I had a crag in my backyard suitable for trad climbing. Could I not do that? Is that not what is usually done when someone has a first ascent or establishes a new line?
(This post was edited by steady_climbing on Nov 21, 2006, 8:59 PM)
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steady_climbing
Nov 21, 2006, 9:10 PM
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Ok well thanks for not answering my question AGAIN.... Safety first..
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petsfed
Nov 21, 2006, 9:19 PM
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In reply to: I understand the DO NOT..But, once again this is a hypothetical question.. Lets say I had a crag in my backyard suitable for trad climbing. Could I not do that? Is that not what is usually done when someone has a first ascent or establishes a new line?
If you've got the means, ability, and permission to drill rap anchors, by all rights, do so. Even if there is a tree present, camoflagued bolts are safer, last longer, and are less obvious than multicolored rap slings. So yes, drill if its your route.
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alexmac
Nov 21, 2006, 9:21 PM
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In reply to: In reply to: I understand the DO NOT..But, once again this is a hypothetical question.. Lets say I had a crag in my backyard suitable for trad climbing. Could I not do that? Is that not what is usually done when someone has a first ascent or establishes a new line? If you've got the means, ability, and permission to drill rap anchors, by all rights, do so. Even if there is a tree present, camoflagued bolts are safer, last longer, and are less obvious than multicolored rap slings. So yes, drill if its your route.
The key here is "your route" just cause you climb it monday does not make it yours , most places in NA have been climbed :)
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elnero
Nov 21, 2006, 9:23 PM
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I think his question was:
"assuming i know everything about placing a bolt, and i'm super experienced, etc... when im sending my sweet new route do i put in bolts for anchors up top?"
edit: got cleared up before this got posted.. im slow.
(This post was edited by elnero on Nov 21, 2006, 9:24 PM)
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alexmac
Nov 21, 2006, 9:29 PM
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In reply to: I think his question was: "assuming i know everything about placing a bolt, and i'm super experienced, etc... when im sending my sweet new route do i put in bolts for anchors up top?" edit: got cleared up before this got posted.. im slow.
If you bolt a route you do not have permission and you get access restricted or the wall closed. Well... There would be no place on Earth a person could hide.
Story goes..
"Hey, Jill is that the so and so who got access cut to xyz climb?"
Jill, "Hey so it is, lets cut his rope or tell his belayer"
Belayer, "Reall, he never told me that, well thats it then" takes apart belay,walks off.
Jill and bob to belayer, "hey are you not gonna tell him he's off belay ?"
Belayer, "whats the point, he will find out when he falls."
Be sure before you bolt.
(This post was edited by alexmac on Nov 21, 2006, 9:32 PM)
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breaksnclimbs
Nov 21, 2006, 9:38 PM
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HOLY THREAD REVIVAL!! The OP hasn't posted in over 5 years, I think he may have figured it out . . .
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steady_climbing
Nov 21, 2006, 9:48 PM
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Well Alexmac.. The story is like this.... Once upon a time a hypothetical question was asked... But, the only thing you could do was fill the empty space with rhetoric. You know if you dont know the answer to the question maybe you should just stop banging on your little keyboard.. And oh yeah bud... If you took the time to read my info im not in NA..
(This post was edited by steady_climbing on Nov 21, 2006, 9:53 PM)
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radistrad
Nov 21, 2006, 10:23 PM
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Kolby, no offense, but if your uncle invented the camming unit why are you not learning to climb from him?
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alexmac
Nov 21, 2006, 11:43 PM
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In reply to: Well Alexmac.. The story is like this.... Once upon a time a hypothetical question was asked... But, the only thing you could do was fill the empty space with rhetoric. You know if you dont know the answer to the question maybe you should just stop banging on your little keyboard.. And oh yeah bud... If you took the time to read my info im not in NA..
Okay, look I was trying to be nice; however, if some noob wants to go bolting routes they should understand the issues of access, hiding the hangers, impact on the parks and impact of the climb.
Seeing you missed those points, you need to retake that english as a second language.
(This post was edited by alexmac on Nov 21, 2006, 11:44 PM)
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alexmac
Nov 21, 2006, 11:49 PM
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In reply to: I have very limited trad experience; however, I have a question.. If someone was to establish a new line, could that person not carry a hand-held drill and bolt in an anchor or rappell point?
Lets see here, since you blasted me. Lets get out the shot gun. Very limited (marked in bold above.
"establish a new line" where, do you have permissons (most likely not) and will people who actually Trad be upset you turned a trad route into a sport one.
"not carry a hand-held drill and bolt in an anchor or rappell point"
Sure, why not, go ahead, again see the point made earlier about getting permisson, engineering of the bolt, safety issues... All which I raised in earlier posts.
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