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Where do you usually rack your gear (protection) when leading?
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Poll: Where do you usually rack your gear (protection) when leading?
on a sling 57 / 45%
on my harness 61 / 48%
other 9 / 7%
127 total votes
 

caliclimbergrl


May 6, 2008, 7:30 PM
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Where do you usually rack your gear (protection) when leading?
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coastal_climber


May 6, 2008, 7:33 PM
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Shoulder sling on the left hand side, with draws/slings on harness on the right.



>Cam


quiteatingmysteak


May 6, 2008, 7:38 PM
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Unless its Aid, harness. Most harness come with enough room for a double set of cams .5 to 3.5 on one side, draws and nutz on the other. I also am not one of those "bring everything just in case" kind of guy - no figure 8, no prussiks, no cordalette (just extra slings around shoulder), you get it. If I used more gear like some people find themselves doing I would probably use a shoulder length 1" sling, but I hate how it always wants to slide in front of me when I'm climbing something low angle (which is a lot : /).


anykineclimb


May 6, 2008, 7:40 PM
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Generally on my harness but in offwidths I'll use a shoulder sling.


Carolyn11


May 6, 2008, 7:41 PM
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Re: [caliclimbergrl] Where do you usually rack your gear (protection) when leading? [In reply to]
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I am a newer lead so I am still experimenting. Currently I am racking on my harness. I like the wear the weight sits better than when it is on a sling. And I have also found, comfortwise, slings just get in the way and irritate my chest.


climbingaggie03


May 6, 2008, 8:11 PM
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Re: [Carolyn11] Where do you usually rack your gear (protection) when leading? [In reply to]
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yeah, I hate leading with a sling, it slides around too much for me. A harness with good gear loops will hold enough gear to get you up pretty much anything you are going to free climb.

Although I do rack slings over my shoulder with one biner on them. I tried the trad draw set up and found it too fidly. I carry some sport draws, and maybe one trad draw and about 6 slings over the shoulder. I also try and clip cams direct if I can, it increases the chances of walking and of rope drag, but if these chances are minimal, then it's simpler and has shorter fall potential.


kimsismour


May 6, 2008, 8:31 PM
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Re: [caliclimbergrl] Where do you usually rack your gear (protection) when leading? [In reply to]
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I currently carry my pro on a gear sling over my right shoulder (I'm left handed), and my slings on my harness. I have been toying with an idea and maybe you all can help me out.

When I place a piece of pro, I have to unclip it from the sling, and then unclip a draw and then clip the rope. I am considering buying enought long slings and beeners to have one for every cam, hence saving a step, and even more important time. I will still have to carry additional slings for my passive protection, but right now the key for me is to keep moving. Anybody rack this way? what are the pros and cons?


Gmburns2000


May 6, 2008, 8:34 PM
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Re: [climbingaggie03] Where do you usually rack your gear (protection) when leading? [In reply to]
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I put my shorter pieces (draws, nuts) on a chest sling and my cams, webbing and spare biners on my harness.

I do this because if I put everything on my harness it tends to sit heavy over time, and pushes my pants down (annoying problem I haven't been able to fix yet)Blush. I don't use a shoulder sling because too much weight on either of my shoulders for a long period of time really makes them sore. I'd rather distribute the weight evenly across both shoulders (kind of like wearing a pack on one shoulder vs using both shoulders).


skinnyclimber


May 6, 2008, 8:45 PM
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small and medium cams (up to #2 C4) on a shoulder sling.

Nuts, runners, draws and large cams on the harness.

I usually put the large cams as far back as possible unless I think I'll need to get to them in a hurry.

I very occasionally put a cam or two that I know I'll need to place fast on the front gear loops....


hafilax


May 6, 2008, 8:47 PM
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Re: [kimsismour] Where do you usually rack your gear (protection) when leading? [In reply to]
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I don't really see much advantage to having pre-extended cams. You'll have to carry more slings and there's more stuff to hook up as you'll trying to pull a cam out of the rack.

If the climbing is sustained I've found that I can usually direct clip the cam or I will carry a few slings over the shoulder with 1 biner attached for extending cams quickly. It's really easy to clip with a log sling since it usually reaches below the tie in knot. I rack on my harness though so slings over the shoulder don't interfere with the rack.


MikeSaint


May 6, 2008, 8:48 PM
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Re: [Gmburns2000] Where do you usually rack your gear (protection) when leading? [In reply to]
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Most of my pro is on a Metolius Gear Sling as I dont trust the plastic gear loops on my BD Harness to take much abuse. Im not sure how it happened but Im missing one gear loop on it already.

Everyone racks gear a little bit different. Some color code biners' and slings, some dont. Whatever is best for you and agreeable with your partner on multipitch Smile


climbingaggie03


May 6, 2008, 8:52 PM
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Re: [kimsismour] Where do you usually rack your gear (protection) when leading? [In reply to]
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I climbed with a guy who racked like this, instead of racking biners on all his cams, he had racking draws. every cam already had a draw on it, When he placed, he would remove the cam from his harness, place it, and clip the other end of the draw.

I didn't like it, it was a pain to re-rack, and when you are starting, it does seem like a lot of steps to place, sling, and then clip, but once you get the hang of things and start slinging less, it gets easier.


andygravity


May 6, 2008, 8:56 PM
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Re: [caliclimbergrl] Where do you usually rack your gear (protection) when leading? [In reply to]
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I usually rack on my harness as I find that a gear sling ends up getting in my way a lot of the time. Part of this is probably because I don't use one often enough to have learned how to avoid it. If the rout requires a large variety of gear the extra room on a sling can be handy though. I find that it can also be easier to pass gear at belays.


elholando


May 6, 2008, 9:23 PM
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All cams up to #2 camalot on a shoulder sling, but I carry a ton a draws on both sides of my harness since I cut the slings off of my cams.


hafilax


May 6, 2008, 9:25 PM
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Re: [elholando] Where do you usually rack your gear (protection) when leading? [In reply to]
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You cut the slings off your cams?!


ja1484


May 6, 2008, 9:31 PM
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Re: [caliclimbergrl] Where do you usually rack your gear (protection) when leading? [In reply to]
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On the harness.

Nuts are split to two biners by size.

Tricams/Hexes if I carry them get their own biner.

Cams racked vertically by duplicate sizes, smallest to largest going from front to back.

Trad draws racked vertically between small and large cams.

Speed draws racked vertically behind trad draws.

Spare carabiners racked vertically behind speed draws.

Anchor rigging/rappel kit, if carried, on haul loop.

Slings over the shoulder with a carabiner on each.


the_climber


May 6, 2008, 10:08 PM
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Re: [caliclimbergrl] Where do you usually rack your gear (protection) when leading? [In reply to]
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Depends on the climb.

Short climb requiring limited gear - on my harness.

Established Multipitch Trad - Gear on a sling, runners/draws on harness towards front, double length slings/anchor material/free biners towards the back.

Unclimbed Lines - Same as above, but add pins and hooks to the front of the left rear gear loop, shifting long slings and anchor material to very back of harness.

Any offwidth gear is on the back of my harness.

Of course It all depends on what the pitch dictates.


irregularpanda


May 6, 2008, 10:12 PM
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Re: [the_climber] Where do you usually rack your gear (protection) when leading? [In reply to]
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On my harness.

My question is this: when you use a sling, doesn't your entire rack end up in your fucking lap? In the way of the rope, in the way of my knees, in the way of my feet....

I have tried it, and it just pisses me off. Sometimes I use a sling to supplement the harness, but that's just a couple pieces, and thats only when I'm carrying too much crap on my harness.


richardvg03


May 6, 2008, 11:17 PM
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Re: [caliclimbergrl] Where do you usually rack your gear (protection) when leading? [In reply to]
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I have a blackdiamond sling. The one that goes across your chest and has an extra cord from the center of your chest under your arm to your back preventing it from swinging. It works good for me!

I carry all my biners, atc's, slings, and cordellet on my harness.


caliclimbergrl


May 6, 2008, 11:25 PM
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Re: [caliclimbergrl] Where do you usually rack your gear (protection) when leading? [In reply to]
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I rack all of my cams and nuts on my sling (which is mainly what I was asking about for the purposes of this poll), and all of my runners/draws on my harness. That's what I see about 90% of the time when I'm out climbing. But whenever I read threads on this board, I always read tons of posts from people claiming to rack up on their harness. I wondered if those people are in the minority and just more vocal or if a lot of people really do rack up that way. I thought a poll would be the best way to get those quit people to give their input so we can see how *most* people really do it. And it looks like at least half (if not more) really do rack on their harnesses! So where do all you people climb, because I almost never see people do it that way! LOL

I totally understand why people rack that way -- it can get annoying when my harness swings around to the front when I'm leading. But I like to have the option to move the sling around to find the right gear rather than reaching all over the place on my harness and being thrown off balance on the climb in the process. It's the lessor of two evils for me. Also, I can't put slings over my shoulder. I'm 5'4 and have a very short torso and long legs and narrow shoulders as well. So slings over my shoulder end up around my waste and in the crook of my elbow which can really screw you up when you're climbing!! So I carry my pro on a sling and my slings and draws on my harness. I think if I were taller, I might rack up on my harness, but given my body proportions, a sling works best for me.


(This post was edited by caliclimbergrl on May 6, 2008, 11:28 PM)


petsfed


May 6, 2008, 11:25 PM
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In a general on a sling. Means that the gear is rarely pinned between the wall and me when I need it, because I've looked at the route ahead of time and determined which shoulder would be against the rock most. However, if its a straight in crack, or the rack is really light, I'll rack on my harness just so there's less on my person.

I really hate getting skull-tapped by the #5 camalot, so its nice to hang it out of the way. Also, when things are steep, the gear sling tends to hang out of the way anyway.

Its only on slabby terrain that it can be a problem.


(This post was edited by petsfed on May 6, 2008, 11:26 PM)


elholando


May 6, 2008, 11:26 PM
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Re: [hafilax] Where do you usually rack your gear (protection) when leading? [In reply to]
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hafilax wrote:
You cut the slings off your cams?!

Yeah. I know it seems a little weird, but the camalot slings are only about 3 or 4 inches. I carry about 12 draws with Trango Superfly's which weigh almost nothing. However, they can be a pain to clip onto the rope side because the gates are really stiff. The non-extended length of my draws is about 12 inches which really helps rope drag. I never used the slings that came with the cams and they just got in the way so I cut them off. I always carry at least 20 runners when I climb, because when I was in Arizona there were a lot of chickenheads (but not in the Three Six Mafia sense.)


the_climber


May 6, 2008, 11:27 PM
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Re: [irregularpanda] Where do you usually rack your gear (protection) when leading? [In reply to]
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irregularpanda wrote:
On my harness.

My question is this: when you use a sling, doesn't your entire rack end up in your fucking lap? In the way of the rope, in the way of my knees, in the way of my feet....

I have tried it, and it just pisses me off. Sometimes I use a sling to supplement the harness, but that's just a couple pieces, and thats only when I'm carrying too much crap on my harness.

On low angle slab, yes it can get in the way if you load it up wrong. That's where "the pitch dictates how you rack" comes into play. Some routes I'll rack what I need for the pitch and hand the gear sling over to the second, or toss it in the haul bag.

I generally don't have some of the problems others do with the sling hanging too low, or swinging around too much do to having a Highland Scot kind of build... personally, if a single length sling was any shorter it wouldn't work for me at all.

I honestly don't think there is any one "end all be all" way to rack, it all depends on the nature of the climb.


hafilax


May 6, 2008, 11:37 PM
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Re: [the_climber] Where do you usually rack your gear (protection) when leading? [In reply to]
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As mentioned before I rack on my harness. On varied terrain I rack the small nuts and the small cams on opposite sides and if I'm carrying doubles in large cams I balance them as well so that I can grab the right size without having to reach across too much. Slings go behind the gear and onto the front of the back loops. Lesser used stuff at the back of the back loops.

If the climb has an obvious bias to placing gear from one side I rack accordingly.

I do most of my climbing in Squamish which has a lot of low angle climbing. I climbed with a gear sling once up the Apron and stepped on my gear countless times and basically had to push it out of the way on every move.

I probably see about 50/50 harness/gear sling but everyone that I climb with racks on their harness.


moose_droppings


May 6, 2008, 11:51 PM
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I can rack on my harness if I must, but its a hassle since I was built without hips and I'm constantly pulling them up. I prefer to use a Yates chest harness/gear harness since most of the time I rope solo, it's the way I've gotten used to carrying my gear. My usual partner likes this way to when swapping leads. Cams up to small hand sizes go on the right side, outer loop, with smaller cams to the front. Bigger cams than that (depends on route) plus two four foot slings go on the right inside loop along with my cordelette. Left side outer loop are three biners with nuts, small medium and large. I'll carry doubles in the smaller since the back of the flaring cracks we have tend to take them more. Another biner for first three tricams and a couple medium and larger hexes. Inside left loop are all my draws, with shorter ones to the front. Four of the draws have Trango superfly lockers on one side and they may or may not get used, I almost always have a few extra lockers come anchor time or for whatever. Also on the inside left loop is a biner with about 15ft spare webbing for whatever. Nut tool goes on my seat harness front loop right and belay biner with belay device on the rear right loop. Left side front are two prussiks (I never leave the deck without em) each on their own Trango superfly locking biner. I've had some tell me that the two prussiks are not needed since I've got runners. Well, If I have to use runners as prussiks, they'd have to be extra, so its a wash to me. My haul loop is free for whatever, a few times to hook a runner to and trail my chest harness up a few chimneys.


ja1484


May 7, 2008, 12:09 AM
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Re: [caliclimbergrl] Where do you usually rack your gear (protection) when leading? [In reply to]
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I rack on my harness. My partner racks on a gear sling except for draws, which go on his harness.

We both have our reasons why.

There is no one right way, there's just the way you prefer, for whatever reason.

As others have mentioned, I sometimes alter my methods depending on the climb. If it's an OW, I may well go with a gear sling as the crack will be eating half of my body for most of the climb.

Circumstantial...circumstantial...


(This post was edited by ja1484 on May 7, 2008, 12:12 AM)


winglessangel


May 7, 2008, 12:53 AM
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Backpack's rack


dr_feelgood


May 7, 2008, 12:57 AM
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Re: [anykineclimb] Where do you usually rack your gear (protection) when leading? [In reply to]
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anykineclimb wrote:
Generally on my harness but in offwidths I'll use a shoulder sling.
^^^ what he said.


nextclimb


May 7, 2008, 1:55 AM
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Sling:
Metolius multi-loop double D sling from left chest to right side. Rack small to mid range cams and nuts groups starting at 5 per biner down to one per for sizes above BD #2. Range finders & Friends under left arm.

Harness:
Cams #4 to #6 on rear loops along with extra biners, cordellet and chained slings.

Shoulder length runners across chest from right shoulder to left side.

Yep, that's the way its done.


petsfed


May 7, 2008, 3:19 AM
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Re: [nextclimb] Where do you usually rack your gear (protection) when leading? [In reply to]
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nextclimb wrote:
Sling:
Metolius multi-loop double D sling from left chest to right side. Rack small to mid range cams and nuts groups starting at 5 per biner down to one per for sizes above BD #2. Range finders & Friends under left arm.

Maybe I'm weird, but I don't understand the whole point of consistently hanging the rack on one side vs. another. You remove most of the advantage of a gear sling by doing that. Which is to say, the only real advantage the gear sling affords you is that you can place it in such a way that the gear is not between you and the rock. With that in mind, you should have no preferred side that the gear will hang on.


richardvg03


May 7, 2008, 4:39 AM
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Re: [petsfed] Where do you usually rack your gear (protection) when leading? [In reply to]
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petsfed wrote:

Maybe I'm weird, but I don't understand the whole point of consistently hanging the rack on one side vs. another. You remove most of the advantage of a gear sling by doing that. Which is to say, the only real advantage the gear sling affords you is that you can place it in such a way that the gear is not between you and the rock. With that in mind, you should have no preferred side that the gear will hang on.

I like to place gear with my right hand because I am right handed and I have more control so I don't drop it... therefore I put most my gear on the right side of my sling...


petsfed


May 7, 2008, 5:02 AM
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Re: [richardvg03] Where do you usually rack your gear (protection) when leading? [In reply to]
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richardvg03 wrote:
petsfed wrote:

Maybe I'm weird, but I don't understand the whole point of consistently hanging the rack on one side vs. another. You remove most of the advantage of a gear sling by doing that. Which is to say, the only real advantage the gear sling affords you is that you can place it in such a way that the gear is not between you and the rock. With that in mind, you should have no preferred side that the gear will hang on.

I like to place gear with my right hand because I am right handed and I have more control so I don't drop it... therefore I put most my gear on the right side of my sling...

I've yet to encounter a crack in a corner that was so considerate as to let me choose. If I'm in a corner, chances are I'm doing the high hand thumbs down, low hand thumbs up thing, at least when I'm placing gear, and that means, in general, that I have to place gear with the low hand, whichever hand that happens to be.

If you climb a lot of routes that let you choose, you're probably better served racking on your harness, or getting a big wall gear sling, as the primary benefit of a one-shoulder gear sling is being lost on you.


quiteatingmysteak


May 7, 2008, 6:59 AM
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Re: [petsfed] Where do you usually rack your gear (protection) when leading? [In reply to]
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petsfed wrote:
richardvg03 wrote:
petsfed wrote:

Maybe I'm weird, but I don't understand the whole point of consistently hanging the rack on one side vs. another. You remove most of the advantage of a gear sling by doing that. Which is to say, the only real advantage the gear sling affords you is that you can place it in such a way that the gear is not between you and the rock. With that in mind, you should have no preferred side that the gear will hang on.

I like to place gear with my right hand because I am right handed and I have more control so I don't drop it... therefore I put most my gear on the right side of my sling...

I've yet to encounter a crack in a corner that was so considerate as to let me choose. If I'm in a corner, chances are I'm doing the high hand thumbs down, low hand thumbs up thing, at least when I'm placing gear, and that means, in general, that I have to place gear with the low hand, whichever hand that happens to be.

If you climb a lot of routes that let you choose, you're probably better served racking on your harness, or getting a big wall gear sling, as the primary benefit of a one-shoulder gear sling is being lost on you.


in other words:
Learn to use both hands and buy a harness big enough so the gear loops aren't hiding behind your kidneys Smile


jaybro


May 7, 2008, 8:02 AM
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Don't know what caliclimbergrl had to say since she/he deleted, but really, if y'all climbed as much as you talk/think/fantasize/ about, this would be a non issue; Harness racking is for n00b's, sportcliimbers or certain steep, applications, in a non bolted situation it requires a lot more work, most of the time....


tomcat


May 7, 2008, 10:44 AM
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I used to use a gear sling.All the gear on my left.After starting out years ago with just three Friends,but now climbing with seven Camalots,four Aliens,two C3's and some stoppers it was lopsided.Using two slings is the pits,they will try to choke you the first chance they get.So I bought a BD Big Wall sling,cut all the exrtraneous loops off and it works great.Small pouch in back for topo,or gu,or headlamp.Stays put,doesn't slide around.I rack sport draws on left,trad draws on right,frree biners back right,belay device back left.One double length sling there too.

I don't carry and emergency gizmos or cordelettes,but do climb on doubles which solves a lot of situations.I don't recommend carrying your wires on less that three or four biners,because if you are just using two,and drop one,you can find yourself bailing.I double up Aliens and C3's since I often have to pick the correct one by placing.

I do keep my chalkbag on a piece of 6mm,that is prusik #1,and then one more in that pouch on my back.


bizarrodrinker


May 7, 2008, 11:52 AM
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I prefer a sling. Especially on the multi-pitch climbs.

Single pitch when you know the placements, gear on the harness.


chossmonkey


May 7, 2008, 12:07 PM
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Normally on a sling.


granite_grrl


May 7, 2008, 12:37 PM
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Normally on my harness.

Even though I see and understand the bennifits of using a gear sling I still haven't converted yet.


caliclimbergrl


May 7, 2008, 1:52 PM
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Huh? I didn't delete. The first post was just the poll. And then I wrote my opinion. Since you can't seem to find it, I'll copy and paste it here:

I rack all of my cams and nuts on my sling (which is mainly what I was asking about for the purposes of this poll), and all of my runners/draws on my harness. That's what I see about 90% of the time when I'm out climbing. But whenever I read threads on this board, I always read tons of posts from people claiming to rack up on their harness. I wondered if those people are in the minority and just more vocal or if a lot of people really do rack up that way. I thought a poll would be the best way to get those quit people to give their input so we can see how *most* people really do it. And it looks like at least half (if not more) really do rack on their harnesses! So where do all you people climb, because I almost never see people do it that way! LOL

I totally understand why people rack that way -- it can get annoying when my harness swings around to the front when I'm leading. But I like to have the option to move the sling around to find the right gear rather than reaching all over the place on my harness and being thrown off balance on the climb in the process. It's the lessor of two evils for me. Also, I can't put slings over my shoulder. I'm 5'4 and have a very short torso and long legs and narrow shoulders as well. So slings over my shoulder end up around my waste and in the crook of my elbow which can really screw you up when you're climbing!! So I carry my pro on a sling and my slings and draws on my harness. I think if I were taller, I might rack up on my harness, but given my body proportions, a sling works best for me.

And I'm a girl. Hense the user name: cali climber girl.


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May 7, 2008, 3:19 PM
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It depends entirely on the climb.


jaybro


May 7, 2008, 3:43 PM
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Sorry climbergirl, whereever i was posting from showed a blank space, can read it now, through filters at work ( and yeah, the he/she thing was just being a smart ass, on my part) my point is that there is no one way to rack, it always depends on the climb. Racking on your harness on a less than vertical climb means an extra step, gotta reach farther, has that, fumbling, unprofessional, air. When it gets steep (like roofs) there are reasons to keep the goods at hand even if it's at your waist. Racking on a sling means you can switch sides, often a necesity on many climbs.


bldr


May 7, 2008, 4:33 PM
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Many moons ago I landed one of these in a raffle:

http://www.mistymountain.com/doublex.htm

For trad climbing I rack a combo of gear on the sling and on the harness. It keeps the quantity of gear(even when I way over rack) down to a manageable level, both in bulk and heft. It gives me a lot of options for organizing without having the sling slide all over or trying to choke me.


dynoho


May 7, 2008, 5:27 PM
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elholando wrote:
hafilax wrote:
You cut the slings off your cams?!

Yeah. I know it seems a little weird, but the camalot slings are only about 3 or 4 inches. I carry about 12 draws with Trango Superfly's which weigh almost nothing. However, they can be a pain to clip onto the rope side because the gates are really stiff. The non-extended length of my draws is about 12 inches which really helps rope drag. I never used the slings that came with the cams and they just got in the way so I cut them off. I always carry at least 20 runners when I climb, because when I was in Arizona there were a lot of chickenheads (but not in the Three Six Mafia sense.)

If I recall, clipping a biner directly to the loop of a C4 reduced the overall strength of the cam considerably. Can anyone confirm this?


ja1484


May 7, 2008, 5:43 PM
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dynoho wrote:
elholando wrote:
hafilax wrote:
You cut the slings off your cams?!

Yeah. I know it seems a little weird, but the camalot slings are only about 3 or 4 inches. I carry about 12 draws with Trango Superfly's which weigh almost nothing. However, they can be a pain to clip onto the rope side because the gates are really stiff. The non-extended length of my draws is about 12 inches which really helps rope drag. I never used the slings that came with the cams and they just got in the way so I cut them off. I always carry at least 20 runners when I climb, because when I was in Arizona there were a lot of chickenheads (but not in the Three Six Mafia sense.)

If I recall, clipping a biner directly to the loop of a C4 reduced the overall strength of the cam considerably. Can anyone confirm this?


Everything except the considerably. BD's literature states you suffer a 2kN strength penalty for this. Still nowhere near the weakest link in the system.


(This post was edited by ja1484 on May 7, 2008, 5:44 PM)


elvislegs


May 7, 2008, 5:45 PM
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sling. with the draws on the harness.

this is for the mountains. if i'm cragging i might rack on my harness, but usually not. every day is a training day.


dynoho


May 7, 2008, 6:23 PM
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ja1484 wrote:
dynoho wrote:
elholando wrote:
hafilax wrote:
You cut the slings off your cams?!

Yeah. I know it seems a little weird, but the camalot slings are only about 3 or 4 inches. I carry about 12 draws with Trango Superfly's which weigh almost nothing. However, they can be a pain to clip onto the rope side because the gates are really stiff. The non-extended length of my draws is about 12 inches which really helps rope drag. I never used the slings that came with the cams and they just got in the way so I cut them off. I always carry at least 20 runners when I climb, because when I was in Arizona there were a lot of chickenheads (but not in the Three Six Mafia sense.)

If I recall, clipping a biner directly to the loop of a C4 reduced the overall strength of the cam considerably. Can anyone confirm this?


Everything except the considerably. BD's literature states you suffer a 2kN strength penalty for this. Still nowhere near the weakest link in the system.

If it was 2kn across the board, I think 14-25% is worth noting. Just curious Jay, what do you consider/is the weak link, beside my internal organs?

To answer the OP question, it depends on the route and area. Short routes where I know the belay and have an idea of gear requirements, I try to use the harness. Longer, multi-pitch requires a sling. For the gym, I use the double sling chest harness.


WVUCLMBR


May 7, 2008, 6:25 PM
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so far all your answers are wrong.....the question was WHERE do you rack your gear....not HOW! I rack my gear @ the base of the climb.....duh!


ja1484


May 7, 2008, 7:31 PM
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dynoho wrote:
ja1484 wrote:
dynoho wrote:
elholando wrote:
hafilax wrote:
You cut the slings off your cams?!

Yeah. I know it seems a little weird, but the camalot slings are only about 3 or 4 inches. I carry about 12 draws with Trango Superfly's which weigh almost nothing. However, they can be a pain to clip onto the rope side because the gates are really stiff. The non-extended length of my draws is about 12 inches which really helps rope drag. I never used the slings that came with the cams and they just got in the way so I cut them off. I always carry at least 20 runners when I climb, because when I was in Arizona there were a lot of chickenheads (but not in the Three Six Mafia sense.)

If I recall, clipping a biner directly to the loop of a C4 reduced the overall strength of the cam considerably. Can anyone confirm this?


Everything except the considerably. BD's literature states you suffer a 2kN strength penalty for this. Still nowhere near the weakest link in the system.

If it was 2kn across the board, I think 14-25% is worth noting. Just curious Jay, what do you consider/is the weak link, beside my internal organs?


It Depends.

Most of the time, either the rock itself, or your tie-in knot.

My #3 stopper is rated to 5kN. I whip on it. I'm not going to worry about a 12kN cam.

I don't use C4s below size .75 or above #2 though, so maybe it matters on, say, the .3 or .4. Regardless, I still wouldn't hesitate to clip into a cam loop direct with a draw on any cam, excepting forged friends.


elholando


May 7, 2008, 11:35 PM
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Re: [dynoho] Where do you usually rack your gear (protection) when leading? [In reply to]
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dynoho wrote:
ja1484 wrote:
dynoho wrote:
elholando wrote:
hafilax wrote:
You cut the slings off your cams?!

Yeah. I know it seems a little weird, but the camalot slings are only about 3 or 4 inches. I carry about 12 draws with Trango Superfly's which weigh almost nothing. However, they can be a pain to clip onto the rope side because the gates are really stiff. The non-extended length of my draws is about 12 inches which really helps rope drag. I never used the slings that came with the cams and they just got in the way so I cut them off. I always carry at least 20 runners when I climb, because when I was in Arizona there were a lot of chickenheads (but not in the Three Six Mafia sense.)

If I recall, clipping a biner directly to the loop of a C4 reduced the overall strength of the cam considerably. Can anyone confirm this?


Everything except the considerably. BD's literature states you suffer a 2kN strength penalty for this. Still nowhere near the weakest link in the system.

If it was 2kn across the board, I think 14-25% is worth noting. Just curious Jay, what do you consider/is the weak link, beside my internal organs?

Dynoho, I've started a discussion on this on the Gear Heads forum.

http://www.rockclimbing.com/...;;page=unread#unread

My apologies to the OP.


gwyn


May 8, 2008, 12:11 AM
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Cali,

I usually clip a biner from one of the gear loops on the shoulder sling to a gear loop of the harness to keep it from swinging around. I have a Metolius sling with the extra side sling (for draws, mainly).

I mostly use the sling for trad; however, if it's short (not requiring a lot of gear) and I know what I need for the climb, I'll rack off the harness.


fiferguy


May 8, 2008, 2:08 AM
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For multipitch climbs, I usually put all the hardware on a Metolius sling, the padded part on my left shoulder. From front to back I generally rack nuts, hexes, and cams, and behind those I have several alpine runners and spare biners. Behind those go locking biners and my cordalette. Over the other shoulder I have single length runners draped over my head, my doubles are slung in such a way that I just have to unclip a biner and pull.

I usually put personal stuff on my harness--belay device and locker, rescue prussiks, water bottle, etc.


antiqued


May 8, 2008, 7:44 PM
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What part of "it depends" doesn't everyone get?

Multi pitch, swinging leads - shoulder sling, draws on second shoulder sling - much faster transitions ( a couple draws on the harness under the sling for clips when the second shoulder sling is trapped) if desired, single and double runners over shoulder with draws.

Multi pitch - block leading - as preferred by leader

Friction slab - waist, to clear feet and view of feet - ain't no placements, anyway!

Big honking roof - key gear on waist so it can be reached without shoulder dislocation or lap deposition

Corners and off widths - shoulder sling on free side; draws on free side of harness (free side may switch mid pitch)

Single pitch - however the gear is currently racked, for speed - more climbing, less racking!

Can somebody add what I've missed and post a FAQ?


andrewbanandrew


Jul 10, 2008, 9:39 AM
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harness, because I have yet to encounter a climb that required more than 15 nuts and 8 cams


markc


Jul 10, 2008, 1:59 PM
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I rack protection on my harness (a Misty Mountain with 6 gear loops). I carry slings on a gear sling to reduce the clutter around the waist. It's a lot easier to swing out of the way. I've tried slings over the shoulder, and never really liked it.

I have a friend that prefers gear on the sling and slings on the harness. When we climb together, we'll either lead in blocks to reduce the change-over or I'll adapt his style of racking.


kimsismour


Jul 10, 2008, 5:01 PM
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My Gear goes on the appropriatly named Gear Sling, and I put my draws and slings on my harness. I have my gear sling organized and catagorized with different color biners so when i get into a freak out moment, I can find the size i am looking for faster. Wink


markc


Jul 10, 2008, 5:16 PM
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kimsismour wrote:
My Gear goes on the appropriatly named Gear Sling...

If you want to get picky about it, henceforth my comfy padded sling will be called Sling Sling. Better?


irregularpanda


Jul 10, 2008, 5:19 PM
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markc wrote:
kimsismour wrote:
My Gear goes on the appropriatly named Gear Sling...

If you want to get picky about it, henceforth my comfy padded sling will be called Sling Sling. Better?

I only use the sling sling when the offwidth offwidth comes my way way. Hey hey.

Seriously though though, I hate hate gear in my lap lap. That shit always happens happens.


markc


Jul 10, 2008, 5:27 PM
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irregularpanda wrote:
markc wrote:
kimsismour wrote:
My Gear goes on the appropriatly named Gear Sling...

If you want to get picky about it, henceforth my comfy padded sling will be called Sling Sling. Better?

I only use the sling sling when the offwidth offwidth comes my way way. Hey hey.

Seriously though though, I hate hate gear in my lap lap. That shit always happens happens.

I hate 10 pounds of gear in my lap. I don't mind 12 - 15 slings which elbow out of the way fairly gracefully. I prefer the feel of gear spread out over the hips than swinging loose. Considering some of my regular partners have a few inches on me, gear on a sling also hangs too low, and it's a PITA to adjust the sling if you're swinging pitches.


Partner cracklover


Jul 10, 2008, 5:57 PM
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All my pro is on a gear sling, on my left side. Nuts in the front, big cams in the back. I place mostly nuts on most climbs, so this works out well.

Four slings over-the-shoulder with one biner on each, on my right side.

Everything else on my harness, on my right side.

irregularpanda wrote:
On my harness.

My question is this: when you use a sling, doesn't your entire rack end up in your fucking lap? In the way of the rope, in the way of my knees, in the way of my feet....

This only happens to me on slab. If I'm climbing slab, I don't need much gear. If I'm leading, I carry the gear I want for the pitch. The second gets everything else.

In other words, no - that's not a problem for me.

GO


the_climber


Jul 10, 2008, 7:13 PM
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I'd have to agree 100% on that CL.

Even new routing on some slab routes with an extensive rack piled on my gear sling I haven't had any real issues with it ending up in my lap. A quick pull on the sling to swing the gear around to my back and it's out of the way, regardless of how much gear is on the sling.

Over the years I have tried just about every consivable way of racking my gear for a climb. I've ended up with using a sling for 90% of my climbing now.
Only real exceptions would be Pins (these are always on my harness), a pitch requiring only a few specific pieces then racking is on the harness, large cams (bigger than #4 Friend) on the harness, and Aid climbing which I prefer a double sling/chest harness racking system (Yates Bigwall).


(This post was edited by the_climber on Jul 10, 2008, 7:14 PM)


Partner cracklover


Jul 10, 2008, 7:44 PM
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the_climber wrote:
A quick pull on the sling to swing the gear around to my back and it's out of the way, regardless of how much gear is on the sling.

Agreed. Though on long slab routes, that can get old fast.

In reply to:
Over the years I have tried just about every consivable way of racking my gear for a climb. I've ended up with using a sling for 90% of my climbing now.
Only real exceptions would be Pins (these are always on my harness), a pitch requiring only a few specific pieces then racking is on the harness, large cams (bigger than #4 Friend) on the harness, and Aid climbing which I prefer a double sling/chest harness racking system (Yates Bigwall).

Agreed with all of the above, except that I've never carried pins, and my double gear sling for aid climbing is a Misty Mountain.

Cheers!

GO


vegastradguy


Jul 10, 2008, 7:46 PM
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pro on the sling, draws on the harness.

i have a few women friends who prefer racking on their harness due to the weight of the gear sling messing with their center of gravity, especially on the steep.

ymmv, but i personally think that a sling is the way to go after having racked on my harness for years before trying the sling at a suggestion from a friend. i'll never go back.


the_climber


Jul 10, 2008, 7:59 PM
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Re: [cracklover] Where do you usually rack your gear (protection) when leading? [In reply to]
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cracklover wrote:
Agreed with all of the above, except that I've never carried pins, and my double gear sling for aid climbing is a Misty Mountain.

Cheers!

GO

On established routes on good rock I rarely carry pins (unless aiding), but my area doesn't always have good rock (it's there, just sometimes only on pitches 1,5,7, and 9 Unimpressed) and I'm not always on established routes, thus I've ended up with quite the collection of steel. As much as I love nesting multiple micro nuts repeatedly on a climb in the hopes that the Choss-stone of the Canadian Rockies will hold, I'd rather pull out the hammer and steel.
They key is in the removal of pins (on any route, but especially on new routes) and constructive scaring so that future parties have a placement for clean gear where you on the FA did not. Most of my partners have no problem runing it out (see my sig line), but many of the routes we've put up have no other option in some sections but to drive in a peg, we always do our best to keep scaring to a minimum, but when the neccissary evil is done constructive scaring is the way to go.


I wish someone carried Misty Mountain out here so I could check it out, I've heard good thing about their bigwall gear.


Partner cracklover


Jul 10, 2008, 8:24 PM
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Re: [the_climber] Where do you usually rack your gear (protection) when leading? [In reply to]
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Next month I'm moving from the East Coast where I've lived all my life to the Front Range of the Chossies (on the US side, though). So I'm sure I'll see what you mean. I remember hiking around the Maroon Bells area when I was a kid, and those mountains sure are beautiful, but they're just one pile of choss after another.

GO


budman


Jul 16, 2008, 5:19 PM
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Re: [caliclimbergrl] Where do you usually rack your gear (protection) when leading? [In reply to]
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Depends. Cams usually on 11/16 sling so as gear moves around it doesn't get caught on shoulder pad as with gear slings with the shoulder pad. Draws and slings on the harness unless the OW is present. Then they go to the sling. Like a sling so you can move right to left and back again as you move from right side in to left side in, keeping the gear on the outside. Nuts and HB's on the harness but sometimes they end up on the sling. Remember in the squeeze, the rack ends up on a runner or 2 hanging from your harness until your through, Thelma and Louise is one route where that happens. If the first move is desperate, then a piece between the teeth.


gargrantuan


Jul 27, 2008, 6:37 AM
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Re: [the_climber] Where do you usually rack your gear (protection) when leading? [In reply to]
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the_climber wrote:
As much as I love nesting multiple micro nuts repeatedly on a climb in the hopes that the Choss-stone of the Canadian Rockies will hold, I'd rather pull out the hammer and steel.
They key is in the removal of pins (on any route, but especially on new routes) and constructive scaring so that future parties have a placement for clean gear where you on the FA did not. Most of my partners have no problem runing it out (see my sig line), but many of the routes we've put up have no other option in some sections but to drive in a peg, we always do our best to keep scaring to a minimum, but when the neccissary evil is done constructive scaring is the way to go.


you are probably the ONLY climber in the canadian rockies that gives a rat's ass about scarring the teetering piles of shit that we call mountains. methinks you've been hanging around with too many americans (or have been spending too much time in the bow valley)!

Tongue

in all seriousness, i'd consider (for a brief second) not placing pins on a popular route on Yam or EEOR, but anywhere in the alpine or any new route and i am going to be hammering without a thought about what *ahem* damage i do to the rock. most routes up here see so little traffic that such consideration isn't warranted IMO.


(This post was edited by gargrantuan on Jul 27, 2008, 6:38 AM)


the_climber


Jul 27, 2008, 7:03 AM
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Re: [gargrantuan] Where do you usually rack your gear (protection) when leading? [In reply to]
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gargrantuan wrote:
the_climber wrote:
As much as I love nesting multiple micro nuts repeatedly on a climb in the hopes that the Choss-stone of the Canadian Rockies will hold, I'd rather pull out the hammer and steel.
They key is in the removal of pins (on any route, but especially on new routes) and constructive scaring so that future parties have a placement for clean gear where you on the FA did not. Most of my partners have no problem runing it out (see my sig line), but many of the routes we've put up have no other option in some sections but to drive in a peg, we always do our best to keep scaring to a minimum, but when the neccissary evil is done constructive scaring is the way to go.


you are probably the ONLY climber in the canadian rockies that gives a rat's ass about scarring the teetering piles of shit that we call mountains. methinks you've been hanging around with too many americans (or have been spending too much time in the bow valley)!

Tongue

Don't even get me started... we have WAY to many tourons in the Bow Valley! I'm not very patient with them.
Tongue
gargrantuan wrote:
in all seriousness, i'd consider (for a brief second) not placing pins on a popular route on Yam or EEOR, but anywhere in the alpine or any new route and i am going to be hammering without a thought about what *ahem* damage i do to the rock. most routes up here see so little traffic that such consideration isn't warranted IMO.

But see, you have found my weakness, I have a masochistic love of alpine and new routing. We we discussing it on the way back from pushing a new route higher today, and realized that, outside of 2 instructional days for friends, both my partner today and I had only done 1 established route this season.

Oh, and with all the fixed gear on Yam I don't carry pins up there often, but my hammer is most often with me to reset or replace the mank. Except for that one route I mentioned... and I REALLY wanted my hammer!


brownie710


Aug 3, 2008, 7:09 PM
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Re: [caliclimbergrl] Where do you usually rack your gear (protection) when leading? [In reply to]
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front left gear loop-small nuts on biner, large nuts on biner, 2-3 trad slings

back left gear loop- 4-5 trad slings, one double length sling with locker

front right- cams 00-.75, each on own biner

back right- cams 1-3 with a few more trad slings and a cordellete with locking biner and atc guide
.
haul loop-nut tool next to my chalkbag with emergency purssik cord inside chalkbag


Partner oldsalt


Sep 10, 2008, 12:46 AM
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Re: [irregularpanda] Where do you usually rack your gear (protection) when leading? [In reply to]
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irregularpanda wrote:
...My question is this: when you use a sling, doesn't your entire rack end up in your fucking lap? In the way of the rope, in the way of my knees, in the way of my feet....

I have tried it, and it just pisses me off. Sometimes I use a sling to supplement the harness, but that's just a couple pieces, and thats only when I'm carrying too much crap on my harness.

If you could organize your gear on a sling, with each piece kept separate and readily available, and also adjustable so you could slide pieces up or down in order to get to more pieces, would you go for it?

I am trying to convince a company that there is a market for such a system. I am not referring to the Metolius multi-loop sling, since the pieces that you put on a single loop still clump together.


bussolinister


Sep 10, 2008, 2:47 AM
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Re: [caliclimbergrl] Where do you usually rack your gear (protection) when leading? [In reply to]
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I'm still a new-ish at trad, so I've been carrying probably way too much gear out of fear;

Tricams, C3 cams and C4 cams to 2 or 3 on the gear sling over the right shoulder, with my cordalette/biners out of the way in the back

On the harness, nuts on the right, hexes on the left, big cams on the back left, belay device/nut tool/prussiks go back right

draws dispersed between depending on how many I have

can I reiterate that it's pretty much all just preference?


Maddhatter


Sep 10, 2008, 4:16 AM
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Re: [oldsalt] Where do you usually rack your gear (protection) when leading? [In reply to]
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oldsalt wrote:
irregularpanda wrote:
...My question is this: when you use a sling, doesn't your entire rack end up in your fucking lap? In the way of the rope, in the way of my knees, in the way of my feet....

I have tried it, and it just pisses me off. Sometimes I use a sling to supplement the harness, but that's just a couple pieces, and thats only when I'm carrying too much crap on my harness.

If you could organize your gear on a sling, with each piece kept separate and readily available, and also adjustable so you could slide pieces up or down in order to get to more pieces, would you go for it?

I am trying to convince a company that there is a market for such a system. I am not referring to the Metolius multi-loop sling, since the pieces that you put on a single loop still clump together.

I had someone make me up a sling that was 2 loops of webbing sewn together about every 2". It was like a sling with 20 (loops) it worked ok but in the end I liked my normal sling better. It did stop the (clumping) of the gear but it made it harder to move out of the way when needed and it was a pain in the ass to get gear from the back loops.


nut_scratcher


Sep 18, 2008, 3:41 PM
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Re: [caliclimbergrl] Where do you usually rack your gear (protection) when leading? [In reply to]
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i usually clip my cams to the backs of my shoes and all my passive gear hangs from the chin strap on my helmet.


Partner epoch
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Sep 18, 2008, 3:47 PM
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Re: [nut_scratcher] Where do you usually rack your gear (protection) when leading? [In reply to]
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nut_scratcher wrote:
i usually clip my cams to the backs of my shoes and all my passive gear hangs from the chin strap on my helmet.
For someone who registered only yesterday, you sure are on your way to fit in with the retards around here.


nut_scratcher


Sep 18, 2008, 4:15 PM
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Re: [epoch] Where do you usually rack your gear (protection) when leading? [In reply to]
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Hey buddy, how i rack my gear is a personal choice. who are you to judge? ... and i don't see exactly what you mean. How is it "retarded"? if there's a better way, i'd certainly consider trying it out.


Partner epoch
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Sep 18, 2008, 4:26 PM
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Re: [nut_scratcher] Where do you usually rack your gear (protection) when leading? [In reply to]
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nut_scratcher wrote:
Hey buddy, how i rack my gear is a personal choice. who are you to judge? ... and i don't see exactly what you mean. How is it "retarded"? if there's a better way, i'd certainly consider trying it out.

I didn't call the content of your post retarded. I said that with your style of posting, you'll fit in with the rest of the retards.


nut_scratcher


Sep 18, 2008, 4:39 PM
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Re: [epoch] Where do you usually rack your gear (protection) when leading? [In reply to]
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hmmm it still seems that you are indirectly criticizing the content of my comment none the less. but that's ok. everyone is entitled to their opinions. and i am proud to learn that i will be able to fit in with the mentally challenged, for they are so brave to be able to conquer their illness and exceed in having fun with useless posts instead of taking them seriously and creating arguments that lead absolutely nowhere. God. I am bored. no hard feelings epoch. i acknowledge the ludicrous nature of my original post, but there certainly isn't anything retarded about having fun. and now my belayer is finally awake.


davidwebb1969


Sep 20, 2008, 10:35 AM
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Re: [caliclimbergrl] Where do you usually rack your gear (protection) when leading? [In reply to]
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If I am doing multipitch that has no chimmney's or offwidths I will stick to having all my gear on my harness, when it gets to doing a multipitch with one of the above, on a sling with the gear orientated on the climbers left.

Big Wall obviously all on the double gear sling with personal gear on my harness.


Partner oldsalt


Sep 24, 2008, 1:24 AM
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Thank you, killfile!


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